I think no one took weapon skills (I could be wrong about that) because your chances of getting your specialty weapon were unaffected. It seemed a bit lame, compared to "extra item" and "free Analyze."
I think no one took weapon skills (I could be wrong about that) because your chances of getting your specialty weapon were unaffected. It seemed a bit lame, compared to "extra item" and "free Analyze."
I was seriously considering taking Improved Ranged, since ranged weapons outclass the others pretty handily (IMO). Glad I didn't though, I didn't find a ranged weapon until the last day.
I'll tweak a few of the abilities and look to add an AIM action, something like +20% hit, -50% attacks rounded up, like an opposite of the All Out Attack option.
I assume this would not apply to melee attacks?
Also maybe make sure Lone Wolves start with a weapon.
smeej on
IT'S A SAD THING THAT YOUR ADVENTURES HAVE ENDED HERE!!
Also, escaping seems like it might be a bit....excessive?
As FWD says, escape is a bonus condition and was meant to be difficult in nature. But it seems like you guys were able to work together to make it happen... all the more sweeter for its success.
I'll tweak a few of the abilities and look to add an AIM action, something like +20% hit, -50% attacks rounded up, like an opposite of the All Out Attack option.
I assume this would not apply to melee attacks?
Aimed attacks should apply for any attack, including melee. Simple and fair, I think?
Also maybe make sure Lone Wolves start with a weapon.
Don't think this is going to happen. While Lone Wolves are advantaged in terms of ability against other students, when it comes to the random draw, they are the same. They'll just have to work with their team for a while to get what they need...
Also maybe make sure Lone Wolves start with a weapon.
Don't think this is going to happen. While Lone Wolves are advantaged in terms of ability against other students, when it comes to the random draw, they are the same. They'll just have to work with their team for a while to get what they need...
Yah......Since Lone Wolves are in a school and can deceive mates, it shouldn't be too terribly hard to get a weapon. Someone's bound to have a spare by Day 2 or 3 at the most.
Giving them a form of "lucky" might make it easier for them to get a weapon of the specific type they specialize in, making the great +weapon hit skills they get a more viable option.
Not sure why they don't have lucky or some form since both students and lovers do. Was this previously possible, and just too powerful?
One Lone Wolf had a schoolmate provide him with a weapon earlier on. Items on the random draw on day 1 can influence the game to a fair extent and I don't see any reason to let someone have a better chance at a specific type of weapon as it could influence the flow of the game.
Yah......Since Lone Wolves are in a school and can deceive mates, it shouldn't be too terribly hard to get a weapon. Someone's bound to have a spare by Day 2 or 3 at the most.
Giving them a form of "lucky" might make it easier for them to get a weapon of the specific type they specialize in, making the great +weapon hit skills they get a more viable option.
Not sure why they don't have lucky or some form since both students and lovers do. Was this previously possible, and just too powerful?
If I remember my thought process when creating the perks list, I decided not to give the Lone Wolf role a "Lucky"-style perk based on flavor. These are the serious, loner students, and I'd like to think they'd shun luck in favor of skill.
(I guess I should say that I didn't have anything to do with the addition of Observant to the Dedicated Student List. But I was surprised by how many people took Lucky. Gotta tone that one down a bit, I think.)
I know for a fact, if I hadn't started the game with a shotgun it would've gone VERY differently.
My partner and I wouldn't have been able to stay in our starting zone, and therefore wouldn't have found the deactivator on night 1......would've completely altered the outcome of me, durax, fwd, and ringo escaping.
As for lucky....searching as 4 people does seem pretty wild.
Observant was my idea, but it's going to be toned down a bit. I did that to help the students better figure out their teams. In the past games run under a slightly different theme, lone wolves and lovers could be found during the action phases each night through hints of how they would survive, as everyone used to live until hit once. The first game we ran, a lone wolf was the last man standing and nobody knew he was a lone wolf.
So during the attack phase, it might say MrBlarney got hit by an axe, but shrugged off the blow, whereas anyone else would have been dead. It suggests he's not a normal student is all. I removed that in favor of letting the students have access to more analyzing.
We'll review the skills in an attempt to make them more appealing overall.
Aimed attacks should apply for any attack, including melee. Simple and fair, I think?
I wouldn't allow it for explosives, since 1) it doesn't make a lot of sense, and 2) it would be overpowered since explosives are pretty much all one-hit attacks.
In regards to Observant, the problem with it this game was that it was basically free defense that could be compounded with other forms of defense fairly easily. And with the free action, it was a bit too easy to find the non-Dedicated Students. Definitely needs more of a tradeoff to be useful.
In regards to Aimed Attack, keep in mind that like All-Out Attack, one won't be able to use Run or Hold Ground. And with explosives at the bottom of the resolution order, someone using an Aimed Attack with an explosive weapon could very well get eliminated before they can use it.
To speak about general weapon balance a bit, certainly melee weapons are weaker than ranged and explosive, but the latter two are also limited by ammunition. In addition, you're going to see melee weapons more often than ranged and explosive. (Or at least you're supposed to.)
I've always thought that ammunition wasn't a major concern for ranged weapons; by the time you've managed to empty a shotgun, you're probably either dead or in possession of another gun.
Truth be told, I hate using the red vote to kill someone. In a game where you can kinda be whatever you want to be and have so many options, being hit with an instant kill is just not that much fun and can be a real downer, even if it spruces up the thread a bit. I'll try to figure something else out, perhaps a different voting mechanism, like rewarding a player instead of a zone (something we've done in the past). I also think I'm going to tinker with what the red vote does.
I kind of figured it was an issue of "not enough people dying". I wasn't a fan of it either O_O aside that it made people more active; instead of this thread being so slow pace. Thematically it also doesn't make a ton of sense, if Kitano had allowed this in the actually game, how many would simple vote Boys #6 ?
Kitano likes the students are unlikeable! Except with one exception
Some things I might consider is making the deactivation process more difficult, not in terms of finding resources and such. But that its not something every student can do. You may get spammed with tons of people taking a technician or hacker specialty then so they can be akin to the hacker group in the story.
But I could see it adding some drama. E.G. people trying desperately to keep the technicians alive.
I could see a counter where Lone Wolves (or maybe any players) get an extra prize for hunting down people who are tracked or deactivated before a certain time.
Truth be told, I hate using the red vote to kill someone. In a game where you can kinda be whatever you want to be and have so many options, being hit with an instant kill is just not that much fun and can be a real downer, even if it spruces up the thread a bit. I'll try to figure something else out, perhaps a different voting mechanism, like rewarding a player instead of a zone (something we've done in the past). I also think I'm going to tinker with what the red vote does.
I kind of figured it was an issue of "not enough people dying". I wasn't a fan of it either O_O aside that it made people more active; instead of this thread being so slow pace. Thematically it also doesn't make a ton of sense, if Kitano had allowed this in the actually game, how many would simple vote Boys #6 ?
Kitano likes the students are unlikeable! Except with one exception
Some things I might consider is making the deactivation process more difficult, not in terms of finding resources and such. But that its not something every student can do. You may get spammed with tons of people taking a technician or hacker specialty then so they can be akin to the hacker group in the story.
But I could see it adding some drama. E.G. people trying desperately to keep the technicians alive.
I could see a counter where Lone Wolves (or maybe any players) get an extra prize for hunting down people who are tracked or deactivated before a certain time.
I'm tweaking the Technician ability so it's no longer a guarantee you find the items, but it does increase your chances. That or remove it completely, so one can be killed before using the item in that round.
I might try the old lime vote a person for the reward, that might garner up some more discussion instead of a zone.
I think I'm also going to do something else to the red vote which might have people trying a little more actively to avoid being the winner as well. Ideas might include announcnig the student's school and/or location. I might possibly announce all their current items or make a note if they are a lover or some such. Realistically, Kitano wouldn't want to give away lone wolves or even students that much, especially compared to a group of 2 that has more win options than others.
The observant action should probably be kept but maybe reduce or eliminate the defensive bonus. Setting the constant defensive bonus to -10% would make it the equivalent of the dodge skill but weaker so that analyze + dodge action + hold out would only be -40% instead of -50%.
If you had the dodge skill also it is -30% all the time if you were holding out so -40% doesn't seem to bad.
The dedicated students have enough of a disadvantage compared to lone wolves that they need abilities and taking observant cuts their power significantly.
Also did anyone use a heal action at any time in the game? It seems kinda useless cause most things kill you pretty fast just wondering.
Also in terms of the lone wolf weapon problem, why not add a lone wolf skill - smuggler. You have smuggled a weapon onto the island to help with the festivities, get one extra random weapon at the start. This is similar to the starting condition of lucky but more evil weapon oriented.
In terms of collar detonations could you set a minimum number of total deaths or detonations start?
like 1 person on day 2, 3 on day 3, 6 on day 4, ect.
Void Slayer on
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
The observant action should probably be kept but maybe reduce or eliminate the defensive bonus. Setting the constant defensive bonus to -10% would make it the equivalent of the dodge skill but weaker so that analyze + dodge action + hold out would only be -40% instead of -50%.
If you had the dodge skill also it is -30% all the time if you were holding out so -40% doesn't seem to bad.
The dedicated students have enough of a disadvantage compared to lone wolves that they need abilities and taking observant cuts their power significantly.
Also did anyone use a heal action at any time in the game? It seems kinda useless cause most things kill you pretty fast just wondering.
Also in terms of the lone wolf weapon problem, why not add a lone wolf skill - smuggler. You have smuggled a weapon onto the island to help with the festivities, get one extra random weapon at the start. This is similar to the starting condition of lucky but more evil weapon oriented.
In terms of collar detonations could you set a minimum number of total deaths or detonations start?
like 1 person on day 2, 3 on day 3, 6 on day 4, ect.
I'll be honest, I hate using the red vote to kill. My numbers per night, if I didn't see at least 2 students dead per night, cumulative, I'd take different measures. This ranges from closing down multiple zones, marking more students or choosing a reward I think will create more dead players. In hindsight, I basically forced you all into a single zone, the red vote death vote wasn't necessary and a bummer of a way to die in the game.
The heal action was used once in the game. We've balanced out a few issues to tone the dodge bonus down and to help the lone wolves be a much more real threat. I think we've made more of the skills seem like better options as well.
I also think, as far as items go, after I put one of everything in the game, I RNG'd everything else. I will likely make ranged weapons more scarce and/or reduce ammunition on ranged weapons.
A final note here, FWD and I will run another one, new thread likely using the Kitano account to help with PMs and such, sometime next week. If there's enough interest, we might look at letting more than 20 people play too, we'll play it by ear. It also depends on how much time we want to spend running this thing!
I actually really liked the strategic choice involved with Analyze, but I think it was too overpowered in combinations. As a solo mechanic, it's really cool.
Man, most of the bad -accuracy was with Hold Ground, which ridiculously favored those willing to stay and duke it out.
Also, I think the strategy options were a bit simplistic, but maybe that's me. It's basically "Attack if you have a good weapon, use a free action if you have one, Search or Guard if you don't have a good weapon, always Hold Ground! always! Unless your zone is closing."
Maybe make more of the miscellaneous actions into Movement actions, or just make moving into an action and allow two actions? Something like that would be pretty cool, somehow giving more overlap between the two types of choices so that you can do a greater variety of things.
Posts
Also maybe make sure Lone Wolves start with a weapon.
On their own, -hit% modifiers were fine, but in compound, they were trouble. Calculating them based on product and not sum should be more reasonable.
As FWD says, escape is a bonus condition and was meant to be difficult in nature. But it seems like you guys were able to work together to make it happen... all the more sweeter for its success.
Aimed attacks should apply for any attack, including melee. Simple and fair, I think?
Don't think this is going to happen. While Lone Wolves are advantaged in terms of ability against other students, when it comes to the random draw, they are the same. They'll just have to work with their team for a while to get what they need...
Yah......Since Lone Wolves are in a school and can deceive mates, it shouldn't be too terribly hard to get a weapon. Someone's bound to have a spare by Day 2 or 3 at the most.
Giving them a form of "lucky" might make it easier for them to get a weapon of the specific type they specialize in, making the great +weapon hit skills they get a more viable option.
Not sure why they don't have lucky or some form since both students and lovers do. Was this previously possible, and just too powerful?
If I remember my thought process when creating the perks list, I decided not to give the Lone Wolf role a "Lucky"-style perk based on flavor. These are the serious, loner students, and I'd like to think they'd shun luck in favor of skill.
(I guess I should say that I didn't have anything to do with the addition of Observant to the Dedicated Student List. But I was surprised by how many people took Lucky. Gotta tone that one down a bit, I think.)
My partner and I wouldn't have been able to stay in our starting zone, and therefore wouldn't have found the deactivator on night 1......would've completely altered the outcome of me, durax, fwd, and ringo escaping.
As for lucky....searching as 4 people does seem pretty wild.
So during the attack phase, it might say MrBlarney got hit by an axe, but shrugged off the blow, whereas anyone else would have been dead. It suggests he's not a normal student is all. I removed that in favor of letting the students have access to more analyzing.
We'll review the skills in an attempt to make them more appealing overall.
In regards to Aimed Attack, keep in mind that like All-Out Attack, one won't be able to use Run or Hold Ground. And with explosives at the bottom of the resolution order, someone using an Aimed Attack with an explosive weapon could very well get eliminated before they can use it.
To speak about general weapon balance a bit, certainly melee weapons are weaker than ranged and explosive, but the latter two are also limited by ammunition. In addition, you're going to see melee weapons more often than ranged and explosive. (Or at least you're supposed to.)
I kind of figured it was an issue of "not enough people dying". I wasn't a fan of it either O_O aside that it made people more active; instead of this thread being so slow pace. Thematically it also doesn't make a ton of sense, if Kitano had allowed this in the actually game, how many would simple vote Boys #6 ?
Kitano likes the students are unlikeable! Except with one exception
Some things I might consider is making the deactivation process more difficult, not in terms of finding resources and such. But that its not something every student can do. You may get spammed with tons of people taking a technician or hacker specialty then so they can be akin to the hacker group in the story.
But I could see it adding some drama. E.G. people trying desperately to keep the technicians alive.
I could see a counter where Lone Wolves (or maybe any players) get an extra prize for hunting down people who are tracked or deactivated before a certain time.
I'm tweaking the Technician ability so it's no longer a guarantee you find the items, but it does increase your chances. That or remove it completely, so one can be killed before using the item in that round.
I might try the old lime vote a person for the reward, that might garner up some more discussion instead of a zone.
I think I'm also going to do something else to the red vote which might have people trying a little more actively to avoid being the winner as well. Ideas might include announcnig the student's school and/or location. I might possibly announce all their current items or make a note if they are a lover or some such. Realistically, Kitano wouldn't want to give away lone wolves or even students that much, especially compared to a group of 2 that has more win options than others.
Thanks for the ideas!
The observant action should probably be kept but maybe reduce or eliminate the defensive bonus. Setting the constant defensive bonus to -10% would make it the equivalent of the dodge skill but weaker so that analyze + dodge action + hold out would only be -40% instead of -50%.
If you had the dodge skill also it is -30% all the time if you were holding out so -40% doesn't seem to bad.
The dedicated students have enough of a disadvantage compared to lone wolves that they need abilities and taking observant cuts their power significantly.
Also did anyone use a heal action at any time in the game? It seems kinda useless cause most things kill you pretty fast just wondering.
Also in terms of the lone wolf weapon problem, why not add a lone wolf skill - smuggler. You have smuggled a weapon onto the island to help with the festivities, get one extra random weapon at the start. This is similar to the starting condition of lucky but more evil weapon oriented.
In terms of collar detonations could you set a minimum number of total deaths or detonations start?
like 1 person on day 2, 3 on day 3, 6 on day 4, ect.
I'll be honest, I hate using the red vote to kill. My numbers per night, if I didn't see at least 2 students dead per night, cumulative, I'd take different measures. This ranges from closing down multiple zones, marking more students or choosing a reward I think will create more dead players. In hindsight, I basically forced you all into a single zone, the red vote death vote wasn't necessary and a bummer of a way to die in the game.
The heal action was used once in the game. We've balanced out a few issues to tone the dodge bonus down and to help the lone wolves be a much more real threat. I think we've made more of the skills seem like better options as well.
I also think, as far as items go, after I put one of everything in the game, I RNG'd everything else. I will likely make ranged weapons more scarce and/or reduce ammunition on ranged weapons.
A final note here, FWD and I will run another one, new thread likely using the Kitano account to help with PMs and such, sometime next week. If there's enough interest, we might look at letting more than 20 people play too, we'll play it by ear. It also depends on how much time we want to spend running this thing!
Man, most of the bad -accuracy was with Hold Ground, which ridiculously favored those willing to stay and duke it out.
Also, I think the strategy options were a bit simplistic, but maybe that's me. It's basically "Attack if you have a good weapon, use a free action if you have one, Search or Guard if you don't have a good weapon, always Hold Ground! always! Unless your zone is closing."
Maybe make more of the miscellaneous actions into Movement actions, or just make moving into an action and allow two actions? Something like that would be pretty cool, somehow giving more overlap between the two types of choices so that you can do a greater variety of things.