I now don't see anyone beating Brock, Fedor might sure but will he ever be in the UFC? especially now his negotiating position is so weak (losing to a guy JDS beat among others).
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facetiousa wit so dryit shits sandRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
If anything I think losing the bargaining power increases the chances of seeing him in the UFC.
I think M-1 are going to be more likely to cave on various issues. And Dana still wants him, that's obvious.
facetious on
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my friend thinks Overeem is the man to beat Brock, but wasnt he the 205 division's bitch back in the day? He could be a ufc hw contender but I don't see him or anyone else beating Lesnar. It's so bad they should just pull a Strikeforce and let Carwin try again.
my friend thinks Overeem is the man to beat Brock, but wasnt he the 205 division's bitch back in the day? He could be a ufc hw contender but I don't see him or anyone else beating Lesnar. It's so bad they should just pull a Strikeforce and let Carwin try again.
The Reem has really bulked up these days but some people question if he would pass a UFC piss test and be happy not being able to fight in other promotions. imho if he is that good he would make more money in the UFC anyway.
JDS is my bet for the best shot at beating Brock, but not for a while at a guess.
my friend thinks Overeem is the man to beat Brock, but wasnt he the 205 division's bitch back in the day? He could be a ufc hw contender but I don't see him or anyone else beating Lesnar. It's so bad they should just pull a Strikeforce and let Carwin try again.
The Reem has really bulked up these days but some people question if he would pass a UFC piss test and be happy not being able to fight in other promotions. imho if he is that good he would make more money in the UFC anyway.
JDS is my bet for the best shot at beating Brock, but not for a while at a guess.
Strikeforce isn't PRIDE, they test for roids.
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mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
Goddamnit, Brock isn't a complete cunt for one post-fight speech and you assholes are all over his nuts.
Fuck Brock.
I You guys though.
Seriously, Fuck Brock.
Do you not understand that if you boo him you only feed his reflexes to go wrassling on you and play heel? love or hate is still attention which = PPV bucks.
ALso Who the fuck beats brock? He took a beating and subbed after. God damn.
Hooray leben. Hooray Bonner!
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my friend thinks Overeem is the man to beat Brock, but wasnt he the 205 division's bitch back in the day? He could be a ufc hw contender but I don't see him or anyone else beating Lesnar. It's so bad they should just pull a Strikeforce and let Carwin try again.
The Reem has really bulked up these days but some people question if he would pass a UFC piss test and be happy not being able to fight in other promotions. imho if he is that good he would make more money in the UFC anyway.
JDS is my bet for the best shot at beating Brock, but not for a while at a guess.
Strikeforce isn't PRIDE, they test for roids.
Ah right, in that case Dana needs to bag that guy cos he is a beast.
I really like Brock (very entertaining), but I'm not sure how people can go "omg brock is invincible" after watching him get the shit kicked out of him for an entire round. Imagine if Carwin had more gas? Lesnar would have been destroyed. Carwin looked like he was dying in round 2 because he had nothing left.
If JDS or Cain (or Overeem) can tag Lesnar and actually pace themselves as they try to finish him off, I don't see why they couldn't win.
I really did like how Lesnar won though. A guy that big who can move that fast with such good wrestling could really be a monster if his jits is good, and it seems Lesnar is developing fast in that area as well.
my friend thinks Overeem is the man to beat Brock, but wasnt he the 205 division's bitch back in the day?
Overeem was one of the most dangerous LHW's out there, and he usually was winning every fight he was in until he gassed or found some other quick way of losing. Supposedly he was cutting weight to such a degree that it was seriously hurting his body, and since he stopped cutting and went to HW he supposedly has no such issues anymore.
i don't think 'carwin didn't KO him so no one can' is really an agreeable argument. carwin is good on his feet with heavy hands, sure, but he lacks experience and ground experience (with striking thrown in, that is). i really wouldn't attribute anything big to his finishing instinct on the ground, or to his cardio.
i think carwin with a better gas tank and a few more fights under his belt could probably take him down.
maybe velasquez, if he gets hit on the chin a few more times.
basically a more intelligent, measured fighter with a better tank- and he has to be big. but we're seeing more and more monstrously sized dudes every day.
I didn't say "no one" can. I'm just saying that Carwin has shown some pretty amazing KO power is his career and since Brock weathered almost an entire round of being punched in and around his facial area only to come back and choke his opponent out, I'm quite impressed. Fedor has power in his hands. I just don't think it's the kind of power that Shane has. And Brock already got through Shane last night.
And I do agree with your last statement. Someone who has Carwin's size and power who is more patient with his strikes and doesn't blow his wad in the first round could, at the very least, take Brock to a decision if he could avoid losing himself. But I honestly don't see many guys KO'ing him. Does Cain have a chance? A little, yeah. He's got fast hands and they're quickly improving. Does JDS have a chance? Of course. He's shown himself to have pretty powerful hands, too. But will they? I don't think so.
Anything can happen in MMA. I believe that 100%. But I think Brock has a pretty secure grip on that title for right now.
For the record, I thought all this stuff before Brock and Shane fought. I've always thought Lesnar was a beast and had amazing potential. No fairweather fan here.
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I really like Brock (very entertaining), but I'm not sure how people can go "omg brock is invincible" after watching him get the shit kicked out of him for an entire round. Imagine if Carwin had more gas? Lesnar would have been destroyed. Carwin looked like he was dying in round 2 because he had nothing left.
You know who else has been in fights where they've been losing and/or in trouble and then they come back to win? Fedor. And people have kissed his ass for years.
See: Fedor's fights with Arlovski, Rogers, Randleman, and Fujita.
Brock will lose his belt eventually. I just don't think it will be soon.
ChillyWilly on
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That was a great night of fights, one of the best PPVs in a while. I'm not sure I can see anyone beating Brock right now. Not for a good while. The only person who I thought had a chance was Carwin and that didn't come to fruition. I don't see Cain beating Brock. The winner of JDS/Nelson will get Brock next. I would say JDS could beat Brock but if Brock can handle that first round assault from Carwin I can't see JDS doing any better. Nelson could be an interesting match and maybe Nelson could pull off an armbar or something, but I wouldn't bet money on it
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Metal JaredMulligan WizardRhode IslandRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
A few things.
One when I saw I got 17 points I nearly shit myself. I mean I know I got Leben fight right and the Lytle fight perfect I thought I forgot to make the rest of my picks or something. I probably don't deserve to go to the next round but I'll take it. So I guess one of us gets a bye? Or are we just going total points and the two highest move on?
Also, everyone please remember that for Carwin MMA is a part time job. He's a civil engineer in Colorado, after he won the interim championship he went back to work the following Monday. To me that makes him really scary. He didn't really suffer any damage from that fight and Brock sure did. Lesner deserved the win, he's a tough SOB but I don't think this is anything against Carwin. I feel it's just like when Brock lost to Mir. If Carwin decides to take MMA more seriously I think he will end up as Heavyweight champion
Nelson will sloppily take JDS down and submit him after taking some punishment.
Cain will get smothered for 5 rounds by Brock.
Then Nelson gets to fight Brock and pulls out a wild haymaker out of nowhere that rocks Brock and then Nelson finishes Brock off on the ground with a rear naked choke. Roy "Big Country" Nelson will then be the baddest man on the planet.
This thread sure does get busy during an event, I just skipped like 10 pages.
Anyway, amazing event, one of the best I've seen in a while. Almost every fight was entertaining, being back and forth, good action, varied finishes.
I'm disapointed that Leben won, but he desrved it in the end. I was worried for Akyiama, Leben has always been a tough guy with heavy hands, and he had a size advantage too. Akyiama did his best and was so close to finishing Leben, but it just didn't happen. I'm glad Leben won via triangle though, and not some sloppy gnp.
The Lesnar/Carwin fight was crazzzy. I thought Brock was dead meat after Carwin landed those punches. Man does that guy have power, I'd like to see him against a guy like Cabbage, see if anyone can take those shots. I was rooting for Carwin but it was an impressive come-from-behind victory by Brock, and he took the victory well.
We also get to see a slam, a good early punching finish, and a variety of submissions. Excellent card.
Nelson will sloppily take JDS down and submit him after taking some punishment.
Cain will get smothered for 5 rounds by Brock.
Then Nelson gets to fight Brock and pulls out a wild haymaker out of nowhere that rocks Brock and then Nelson finishes Brock off on the ground with a rear naked choke. Roy "Big Country" Nelson will then be the baddest man on the planet.
dammit at least this shows there is no other sport this unpredictable
in the past year MMA fans have seen a fat redneck beat more than 13 more fit/athletic people to earn a UFC contract, the greatest fighter in the world tap out to a UFC reject in a minute, a guy who kills people dead with headkicks make somebody tap out, and a guy who's never made it out of the first round go into the 2nd round with a wrestler who's only ever been able to beat people senseless, and he wound up making the guy who'd never been out of the first round tap out
Look, Brock is good. He's a phenom! But he's 5-1 so lets not get ahead of ourselves
That's exactly right. He got his ass beat up by the guy with the heaviest hands in the division, weathered it with a smile on his face and then came back and choked him out.
Glad we agree.
But again, I was comparing Brock to Fedor before this fight even took place. Brock has only faced tough competition since he's been in the UFC (besides Herring) and even in his only loss he was spanking Frank Mir before he got silly with his legs. The man has risen to the occasion in every fight and is only going to get better as time goes on.
ChillyWilly on
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I didn't say "no one" can. I'm just saying that Carwin has shown some pretty amazing KO power is his career and since Brock weathered almost an entire round of being punched in and around his facial area only to come back and choke his opponent out, I'm quite impressed. Fedor has power in his hands. I just don't think it's the kind of power that Shane has. And Brock already got through Shane last night.
That's right, Fedor doesn't have the kind of power that Shane has. Which makes him much better suited to beat Brock Lesnar.
Carwin is a power puncher, with strong single shots that can fell most opponents. Think George Foreman.
Fedor is a power counterpuncher, with precise shots landing consecutively to concuss his opponents. Think Muhammad Ali.
As I've said all along, Brock has an insane chin. But then again so did Forrest Griffin, and Anderson Silva showed everyone how to easily knock him out with a counterpunch while moving backwards. Fedor could do the same to Lesnar.
But in my estimation, Fedor would punch, sweep Lesnar, and take him on the ground. Brock hasn't shown his ability on his back, which is a position that wrestlers hate.
dammit at least this shows there is no other sport this unpredictable
in the past year MMA fans have seen a fat redneck beat more than 13 more fit/athletic people to earn a UFC contract, the greatest fighter in the world tap out to a UFC reject in a minute, a guy who kills people dead with headkicks make somebody tap out, and a guy who's never made it out of the first round go into the 2nd round with a wrestler who's only ever been able to beat people senseless, and he wound up making the guy who'd never been out of the first round tap out
only in MMA
And this is why I love this sport. Everything else just seems boring compared to MMA.
I agree with 815165. Lytle should have gotten Sub of the Night over Brock. Brock doesn't need $75,000 more dollars. He's probably already making a million for the night. Besides, Lytle's submission was so much more awesome than just a simple head/arm triangle.
ChillyWilly on
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I don't think the question of Fedor vs Brock comes down to punching power, I think it's a case of if Fedor can submit Brock off his back in time/without taking too much damage. I'd be really surprised to see Fedor sweep Brock.
dammit at least this shows there is no other sport this unpredictable
in the past year MMA fans have seen a fat redneck beat more than 13 more fit/athletic people to earn a UFC contract, the greatest fighter in the world tap out to a UFC reject in a minute, a guy who kills people dead with headkicks make somebody tap out, and a guy who's never made it out of the first round go into the 2nd round with a wrestler who's only ever been able to beat people senseless, and he wound up making the guy who'd never been out of the first round tap out
only in MMA
And this is why I love this sport. Everything else just seems boring compared to MMA.
I agree with 815165. Lytle should have gotten Sub of the Night over Brock. Brock doesn't need $75,000 more dollars. He's probably already making a million for the night. Besides, Lytle's submission was so much more awesome than just a simple head/arm triangle.
true but to be fair who ever expected Brock or CroCop to ever make somebody tap out?
for that alone they both deserved Subs of the Night
I didn't say "no one" can. I'm just saying that Carwin has shown some pretty amazing KO power is his career and since Brock weathered almost an entire round of being punched in and around his facial area only to come back and choke his opponent out, I'm quite impressed. Fedor has power in his hands. I just don't think it's the kind of power that Shane has. And Brock already got through Shane last night.
That's right, Fedor doesn't have the kind of power that Shane has. Which makes him much better suited to beat Brock Lesnar.
Carwin is a power puncher, with strong single shots that can fell most opponents. Think George Foreman.
Fedor is a power counterpuncher, with precise shots landing consecutively to concuss his opponents. Think Muhammad Ali.
As I've said all along, Brock has an insane chin. But then again so did Forrest Griffin, and Anderson Silva showed everyone how to easily knock him out with a counterpunch while moving backwards. Fedor could do the same to Lesnar.
But in my estimation, Fedor would punch, sweep Lesnar, and take him on the ground. Brock hasn't shown his ability on his back, which is a position that wrestlers hate.
Also, there's plenty of reason to hate Lesnar.
Lesnar: "FUCK HEALTH CARE REFORM."
Comparing Brock to Griffin is pretty weak, but I'll play along.
Agreed. Fedor is a different kind of puncher than Carwin. But I honestly don't think it matters. Mainly because I see the exact same thing happening to Fedor that happened to Carwin: Throw some punches, get taken down by the bigger guy (Lesnar) and then lose in some way from there. At this point, Brock's stand-up is not on the same level as Fedor. That's a fact. Which is why I think he'll be smart and take him down if they were to fight.
Brock has shown some ability on his back. That's the exact position that Carwin had him in for most of the first round last night. Granted, Fedor is likely better in top position than Carwin, but to say that we haven't seen Brock be pressured on his back is a bit silly.
ChillyWilly on
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
What's going on with Overeem and Fedor now? Is Werdum fighting the Reem or are they doing a rematch? I'd feel pretty bad for Overeem if he set aside time to devote to Strikeforce and they don't have anyone free to fight him. I don't even care that Werdum beat Fedor I'd still rather see Fedor/Reem than any other HW matchup SF has.
Comparing Brock to Griffin is pretty weak, but I'll play along.
Agreed. Fedor is a different kind of puncher than Carwin. But I honestly don't think it matters. Mainly because I see the exact same thing happening to Fedor that happened to Carwin: Throw some punches, get taken down by the bigger guy (Lesnar) and then lose in some way from there. At this point, Brock's stand-up is not on the same level as Fedor. That's a fact. Which is why I think he'll be smart and take him down if they were to fight.
Brock has shown some ability on his back. That's the exact position that Carwin had him in for most of the first round last night. Granted, Fedor is likely better in top position than Carwin, but to say that we haven't seen Brock be pressured on his back is a bit silly.
How about comparing Brock and Leben? Anderson Silva took Leben to the bank as well.
And as for ability on his back, Lesnar was only struggling to defend the punches, rather than try to regain his position. Carwin was only standing near him and dropping punches. Fedor would mount him and not let him back up.
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I now don't see anyone beating Brock, Fedor might sure but will he ever be in the UFC? especially now his negotiating position is so weak (losing to a guy JDS beat among others).
I think M-1 are going to be more likely to cave on various issues. And Dana still wants him, that's obvious.
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I've been fucking stupid all day. I really don't know how I managed to completely miss the point of Snarf's post.
The Reem has really bulked up these days but some people question if he would pass a UFC piss test and be happy not being able to fight in other promotions. imho if he is that good he would make more money in the UFC anyway.
JDS is my bet for the best shot at beating Brock, but not for a while at a guess.
Fuck Brock.
I
Seriously, Fuck Brock.
Strikeforce isn't PRIDE, they test for roids.
Do you not understand that if you boo him you only feed his reflexes to go wrassling on you and play heel? love or hate is still attention which = PPV bucks.
ALso Who the fuck beats brock? He took a beating and subbed after. God damn.
Hooray leben. Hooray Bonner!
Ah right, in that case Dana needs to bag that guy cos he is a beast.
If JDS or Cain (or Overeem) can tag Lesnar and actually pace themselves as they try to finish him off, I don't see why they couldn't win.
I really did like how Lesnar won though. A guy that big who can move that fast with such good wrestling could really be a monster if his jits is good, and it seems Lesnar is developing fast in that area as well.
Overeem was one of the most dangerous LHW's out there, and he usually was winning every fight he was in until he gassed or found some other quick way of losing. Supposedly he was cutting weight to such a degree that it was seriously hurting his body, and since he stopped cutting and went to HW he supposedly has no such issues anymore.
I didn't say "no one" can. I'm just saying that Carwin has shown some pretty amazing KO power is his career and since Brock weathered almost an entire round of being punched in and around his facial area only to come back and choke his opponent out, I'm quite impressed. Fedor has power in his hands. I just don't think it's the kind of power that Shane has. And Brock already got through Shane last night.
And I do agree with your last statement. Someone who has Carwin's size and power who is more patient with his strikes and doesn't blow his wad in the first round could, at the very least, take Brock to a decision if he could avoid losing himself. But I honestly don't see many guys KO'ing him. Does Cain have a chance? A little, yeah. He's got fast hands and they're quickly improving. Does JDS have a chance? Of course. He's shown himself to have pretty powerful hands, too. But will they? I don't think so.
Anything can happen in MMA. I believe that 100%. But I think Brock has a pretty secure grip on that title for right now.
For the record, I thought all this stuff before Brock and Shane fought. I've always thought Lesnar was a beast and had amazing potential. No fairweather fan here.
You know who else has been in fights where they've been losing and/or in trouble and then they come back to win? Fedor. And people have kissed his ass for years.
See: Fedor's fights with Arlovski, Rogers, Randleman, and Fujita.
Brock will lose his belt eventually. I just don't think it will be soon.
Because he got his ass beat up a bit?
Look, Brock is good. He's a phenom! But he's 5-1 so lets not get ahead of ourselves
psn: lankyplonker
One when I saw I got 17 points I nearly shit myself. I mean I know I got Leben fight right and the Lytle fight perfect I thought I forgot to make the rest of my picks or something. I probably don't deserve to go to the next round but I'll take it. So I guess one of us gets a bye? Or are we just going total points and the two highest move on?
Also, everyone please remember that for Carwin MMA is a part time job. He's a civil engineer in Colorado, after he won the interim championship he went back to work the following Monday. To me that makes him really scary. He didn't really suffer any damage from that fight and Brock sure did. Lesner deserved the win, he's a tough SOB but I don't think this is anything against Carwin. I feel it's just like when Brock lost to Mir. If Carwin decides to take MMA more seriously I think he will end up as Heavyweight champion
PSN: SoulCrusherJared
Nelson will sloppily take JDS down and submit him after taking some punishment.
Cain will get smothered for 5 rounds by Brock.
Then Nelson gets to fight Brock and pulls out a wild haymaker out of nowhere that rocks Brock and then Nelson finishes Brock off on the ground with a rear naked choke. Roy "Big Country" Nelson will then be the baddest man on the planet.
The gods told me this in a vision.
I was going to suggest the person with the highest overall points. Which would be Adytum who is in 2nd place overall.
But won't that cause a problem for the next round?
So Adytum has a bye. Then 2 people advance and then we have 3 people for two spots. Or we could do a triple threat match for the championship.
The other option is top two of the next event advance and the next two fight it out for the championship
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Anyway, amazing event, one of the best I've seen in a while. Almost every fight was entertaining, being back and forth, good action, varied finishes.
I'm disapointed that Leben won, but he desrved it in the end. I was worried for Akyiama, Leben has always been a tough guy with heavy hands, and he had a size advantage too. Akyiama did his best and was so close to finishing Leben, but it just didn't happen. I'm glad Leben won via triangle though, and not some sloppy gnp.
The Lesnar/Carwin fight was crazzzy. I thought Brock was dead meat after Carwin landed those punches. Man does that guy have power, I'd like to see him against a guy like Cabbage, see if anyone can take those shots. I was rooting for Carwin but it was an impressive come-from-behind victory by Brock, and he took the victory well.
We also get to see a slam, a good early punching finish, and a variety of submissions. Excellent card.
This would make me smile.
Really cool event. :^:
here you have this absolute mountain of neckless muscle vs. ...a big fat redneck.
I'm so confused
edit: also, they have to make Leben/Wand happen
because brock lesnar submitted a man
it's like the inverse of Fedor being submitted
in the past year MMA fans have seen a fat redneck beat more than 13 more fit/athletic people to earn a UFC contract, the greatest fighter in the world tap out to a UFC reject in a minute, a guy who kills people dead with headkicks make somebody tap out, and a guy who's never made it out of the first round go into the 2nd round with a wrestler who's only ever been able to beat people senseless, and he wound up making the guy who'd never been out of the first round tap out
only in MMA
Steam
That's exactly right. He got his ass beat up by the guy with the heaviest hands in the division, weathered it with a smile on his face and then came back and choked him out.
Glad we agree.
But again, I was comparing Brock to Fedor before this fight even took place. Brock has only faced tough competition since he's been in the UFC (besides Herring) and even in his only loss he was spanking Frank Mir before he got silly with his legs. The man has risen to the occasion in every fight and is only going to get better as time goes on.
Carwin is a power puncher, with strong single shots that can fell most opponents. Think George Foreman.
Fedor is a power counterpuncher, with precise shots landing consecutively to concuss his opponents. Think Muhammad Ali.
As I've said all along, Brock has an insane chin. But then again so did Forrest Griffin, and Anderson Silva showed everyone how to easily knock him out with a counterpunch while moving backwards. Fedor could do the same to Lesnar.
But in my estimation, Fedor would punch, sweep Lesnar, and take him on the ground. Brock hasn't shown his ability on his back, which is a position that wrestlers hate.
Also, there's plenty of reason to hate Lesnar.
Lesnar: "FUCK HEALTH CARE REFORM."
And this is why I love this sport. Everything else just seems boring compared to MMA.
I agree with 815165. Lytle should have gotten Sub of the Night over Brock. Brock doesn't need $75,000 more dollars. He's probably already making a million for the night. Besides, Lytle's submission was so much more awesome than just a simple head/arm triangle.
true but to be fair who ever expected Brock or CroCop to ever make somebody tap out?
for that alone they both deserved Subs of the Night
don't be stingy
Steam
let's not waste time comparing fedor and brock because they will most likely never fight.
Comparing Brock to Griffin is pretty weak, but I'll play along.
Agreed. Fedor is a different kind of puncher than Carwin. But I honestly don't think it matters. Mainly because I see the exact same thing happening to Fedor that happened to Carwin: Throw some punches, get taken down by the bigger guy (Lesnar) and then lose in some way from there. At this point, Brock's stand-up is not on the same level as Fedor. That's a fact. Which is why I think he'll be smart and take him down if they were to fight.
Brock has shown some ability on his back. That's the exact position that Carwin had him in for most of the first round last night. Granted, Fedor is likely better in top position than Carwin, but to say that we haven't seen Brock be pressured on his back is a bit silly.
What's the fun in sports if you can't discuss dream/potential/silly match-ups?
Speaking of which, the only match that would make me care to watch boxing would be Mayweather vs. PacMan. Am I alone in this?
And who's got the next thread? We're on 90 pages, yo.
And as for ability on his back, Lesnar was only struggling to defend the punches, rather than try to regain his position. Carwin was only standing near him and dropping punches. Fedor would mount him and not let him back up.
Haye vs. Klitchko's right under that.
Followed by Ward, Cotto, Marquez, etc.
no way mayweather could beat pacquiao
at least not by ko
if he bribed the judges he could probably eke out a fluke decision win
but that's the only way
Steam