Sounds like M1 are pushing for a Fedor/Werdum rematch while Scott Coker is more interested in Fedor/Reem.
Would anyone here really rather wait for Werdum to heal up after his upcoming surgery to fight Fedor again when we could have Fedor fighting Overeem (if slightly unjust) in the meantime?
No. No more title fights for people coming off a loss. Please.
Car analogy time!
Coker's Ferrari is smashed, now he's just trying to salvage whatever parts he can for scrap. If Fedor loses to Werdum again, then Fedor-Reem loses what little drawing power it has left to the casual fan. And Werdum has no interest in Overeem avenging his loss by caving in Werdum's skull.
What's Overeem to do, though? He set aside time to devote to Strikeforce and they're not going to have anyone to fight him while Werdum heals up.
Back to Japan for a while, probably. Or the UFC if they'll let him do K-1. The Uberknee will be the true test of whether Lesnar can or can't be knocked out. Fujita could win a headbutting contest with a rock, and Overeem damn near killed him.
To be honest, I don't really understand why the UFC doesn't allow their fighters into K-1, but they do allow them into ADCC. Both are combat sports tournaments but neither are MMA, having more restrictive rules than MMA. Even the "if a UFC fighter loses in K-1 everyone will think he sucks" line doesn't work. GSP and Big Nog have lost at ADCC, does that mean their grappling sucks?
I think you're less likely to be out for a few months with injuries after ADCC than you are after K-1.
Really? That seems counter-intuitive to me.
K-1 has some spectacular knockouts that likely produce concussions. Those can get bad for fighters in the long-term when they start racking up, but recovering from a single concussion usually doesn't take that long.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing. Palhares could have easily destroyed Drwal's knee with that heel hook. Aoki busted Hirota's arm, just as Mir did to Sylvia. Granted those were all MMA matches, but they were grappling moves that would have been right at home in ADCC.
My thinking was you can bust all sorts of things kickboxing, it's just part of the sport. By contrast high level Jits guys know when to tap out of a joint lock that's going to get them hurt, they're not going to stay in too long just to prove a point.
I think you're less likely to be out for a few months with injuries after ADCC than you are after K-1.
Really? That seems counter-intuitive to me.
K-1 has some spectacular knockouts that likely produce concussions. Those can get bad for fighters in the long-term when they start racking up, but recovering from a single concussion usually doesn't take that long.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing. Palhares could have easily destroyed Drwal's knee with that heel hook. Aoki busted Hirota's arm, just as Mir did to Sylvia. Granted those were all MMA matches, but they were grappling moves that would have been right at home in ADCC.
Being knocked out comes with a lengthy medical suspension, even if you're probably fine. I'd bet more people come out of a K-1 event unable to compete again for X months than they do at ADCC. Plus I imagine people don't usually hold onto subs at ADCC like Palhares did, or extend them further before letting go like Aoki.
The muscle damage from kicks could have fighters out for months (a la Urijah Faber) and I'd assume that facial cuts/etc would be a big deal too. People also break hands/feet/arms by punching/kicking/blocking far more frequently than damage from submissions.
And based on what I've seen of the results its fairly rare to get a joint lock in the ADCC as I understand it. You're much more likely to get wins on points or a choke.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing.
There are very few injuries in sport BJJ. Guys competing at that level know when they're caught and tap, and the guys catching them know not to crank it. Respect is a huge part of Brazilian culture and therefore BJJ, so if a guy's known to hold subs he'll get blackballed very quickly.
facetious on
"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing.
There are very few injuries in sport BJJ. Guys competing at that level know when they're caught and tap, and the guys catching them know not to crank it. Respect is a huge part of Brazilian culture and therefore BJJ, so if a guy's known to hold subs he'll get blackballed very quickly.
Strikeforce Challengers looks like it might be okay, though I've no way to watch it.
Impact FC 1/2 will probably be entertaining, if not significant or relevant. I certainly won't be paying money for it.
You forgot about this upcoming Saturday, DREAM 15
Lightweight Championship bout: Shinya Aoki (c) vs. Tatsuya Kawajiri
Light Heavyweight Grand Prix Opening Round bout: Melvin Manhoef vs. Tatsuya Mizuno
Lightweight bout: Gesias Cavalcante vs. Katsunori Kikuno
Middleweight bout: Kazuhiro Nakamura vs. Karl Amoussou
Featherweight bout: Michihiro Omigawa vs. Jong Young Sam
Light Heavyweight Grand Prix Opening Round bout: Gegard Mousasi vs. Jake O'Brien
Featherweight bout: Mitsuhiro Ishida vs. Daiki Hata
Also, you have to remember, June was fucking insane from beginning to the end. The rest of the year's going to seem tame.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing.
There are very few injuries in sport BJJ. Guys competing at that level know when they're caught and tap, and the guys catching them know not to crank it. Respect is a huge part of Brazilian culture and therefore BJJ, so if a guy's known to hold subs he'll get blackballed very quickly.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing.
There are very few injuries in sport BJJ. Guys competing at that level know when they're caught and tap, and the guys catching them know not to crank it. Respect is a huge part of Brazilian culture and therefore BJJ, so if a guy's known to hold subs he'll get blackballed very quickly.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing.
There are very few injuries in sport BJJ. Guys competing at that level know when they're caught and tap, and the guys catching them know not to crank it. Respect is a huge part of Brazilian culture and therefore BJJ, so if a guy's known to hold subs he'll get blackballed very quickly.
I'm sure Roger totally got blackballed for making Aoki limp like that.
How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
My point was that injuries can happen, even at the highest levels with Roger and Aoki. There certainly was no respect if he cranked it enough against someone that much lighter than him, to the point where his opponent had to limp away.
I'm just pointing out the exception to the rule. Usually, it's safe. But when there's a grudge, career-affecting injuries can occur even at the highest levels.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
My point was that injuries can happen, even at the highest levels with Roger and Aoki. There certainly was no respect if he cranked it enough against someone that much lighter than him, to the point where his opponent had to limp away.
I'm just pointing out the exception to the rule. Usually, it's safe. But when there's a grudge, career-affecting injuries can occur even at the highest levels.
Yea, you're right, he totally disrespected him by cranking enough to ensure that one of the best BJJers in the world submitted. That wasn't respect for his skills and making certain that Roger won or anything.
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How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
My point was that injuries can happen, even at the highest levels with Roger and Aoki. There certainly was no respect if he cranked it enough against someone that much lighter than him, to the point where his opponent had to limp away.
I'm just pointing out the exception to the rule. Usually, it's safe. But when there's a grudge, career-affecting injuries can occur even at the highest levels.
Sure, it's still going to happen. People get hurt walking up stairs, for fuck's sake. But stair-climbing injuries (and BJJ competition injuries) are still quite a bit less likely than MMA/Kickboxing injuries, i'd think.
EDIT: Also, i meant Purposefully, not purposely. Damn you, Captain Morgan. Damn you.
How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
My point was that injuries can happen, even at the highest levels with Roger and Aoki. There certainly was no respect if he cranked it enough against someone that much lighter than him, to the point where his opponent had to limp away.
I'm just pointing out the exception to the rule. Usually, it's safe. But when there's a grudge, career-affecting injuries can occur even at the highest levels.
Sure, it's still going to happen. People get hurt walking up stairs, for fuck's sake. But stair-climbing injuries (and BJJ competition injuries) are still quite a bit less likely than MMA/Kickboxing injuries, i'd think.
EDIT: Also, i meant Purposefully, not purposely. Damn you, Captain Morgan. Damn you.
How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
My point was that injuries can happen, even at the highest levels with Roger and Aoki. There certainly was no respect if he cranked it enough against someone that much lighter than him, to the point where his opponent had to limp away.
I'm just pointing out the exception to the rule. Usually, it's safe. But when there's a grudge, career-affecting injuries can occur even at the highest levels.
Sure, it's still going to happen. People get hurt walking up stairs, for fuck's sake. But stair-climbing injuries (and BJJ competition injuries) are still quite a bit less likely than MMA/Kickboxing injuries, i'd think.
EDIT: Also, i meant Purposefully, not purposely. Damn you, Captain Morgan. Damn you.
Aoki isnt some scrub. He isnt some 14 year old neckbeard from an Aikido school who doesnt know a kimura from a keylock.
Hes muthaluvin Shinya Aoki.
He knew roger was hitting that ankle lock. He tried to escape, couldnt, and tapped.
1)Ankle locks hurt like a mother
2)Aoki knows this
3)Even if you perform an ankle lock 100% perfectly (most people dont) its REALLY hard to break it. But it hurts.
4)Aoki tapped when he thought best, then limped because his ankle hurt, likely not due to actual injury, but pain.
In summary
Roger did nothing wrong
Aoki got hurt, not injured
DURRr yeah BJJ competitions can cause injuries, but its not common.
As was said earlier, if someone intentionally hurts his opponent, hes gonna get blackballed.
Pure grappling is, over all, safer than pure striking. How many childrens boxing matches do you see? Not many. They have children BJJ matches all the time, with only slightly modified rules (no leglocks period, no chokes til a certain age, etc.)
The man is unbeaten in the 6 fights he's had in the UFC (4 of those victories are at lightweight). He's looked very impressive in his last two outings against Joe Stevenson and Kurt Pellegrino. Personally, I'd like to see him face the loser of the Florian/Maynard fight in August. I think it would be the perfect step up in competition for him.
Thoughts?
ChillyWilly on
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
My thinking was you can bust all sorts of things kickboxing, it's just part of the sport. By contrast high level Jits guys know when to tap out of a joint lock that's going to get them hurt, they're not going to stay in too long just to prove a point.
I couldn't find any comparisons of BJJ vs kickboxing injury rates. Closest I got was:
The rate of injuries, expressed as percentage of participants sustaining an injury that required time off training a year, varied according to style:
59% tae kwon do
51% aikido
38% kung fu
30% karate
14% tai chi
Conclusions — The results are similar to those found for karate and taekwondo with regard to injury distribution, type, and rate. The percentage of injuries resulting in time off training is less.
Also, it appears that just looking at "grappling" in general in terms of injury rates appears to be useless. For example, judo produces more injuries than wrestling due to the use of high-impact throws and the constant twisting of planted legs. There's a lot of knee injuries in judo as a result.
Yeah, I'd say from anecdotal evidence most bjj injuries come from people taking a throw wrong. Especially when learning/drilling them. If getting uchi-mata'd 20 times in a matter of minutes would probably increase your chance of injury.
Also, how the heck do 14% of Tai Chi ers get injured and laid off for a year?!
Yeah, I'd say from anecdotal evidence most bjj injuries come from people taking a throw wrong. Especially when learning/drilling them. If getting uchi-mata'd 20 times in a matter of minutes would probably increase your chance of injury.
Also, how the heck do 14% of Tai Chi ers get injured and laid off for a year?!
I bet the average age has something to do with it. :P
Yeah, I'd say from anecdotal evidence most bjj injuries come from people taking a throw wrong. Especially when learning/drilling them. If getting uchi-mata'd 20 times in a matter of minutes would probably increase your chance of injury.
Also, how the heck do 14% of Tai Chi ers get injured and laid off for a year?!
I bet the average age has something to do with it. :P
Yeah, have you ever gone by a park early in the morning? Often theres a whole bunch of elderly chinese people doing tai chi.
He's a great fighter and a pleasure to watch, though Pellegrino put him in danger a few times while on their feet.
Hopefully he can make a run at better competition. I actually think he'd be good against a wrestler, as his BJJ is top-notch and he's shown he can really control the entire fight off his back.
Conclusions — The results are similar to those found for karate and taekwondo with regard to injury distribution, type, and rate. The percentage of injuries resulting in time off training is less.
It may be because I read the article too fast, but I didn't see where they compared the fitness levels of the athletes and how that may have biased injury severity and recovery times.
He's a great fighter and a pleasure to watch, though Pellegrino put him in danger a few times while on their feet.
Hopefully he can make a run at better competition. I actually think he's be good against a wrestler, as his BJJ is top-notch and he's shown he can really control the entire fight off his back.
His defensive BJJ is good. We haven't seen much BJJ offense from him that I can remember. He subbed Jason Dent and George Roop. Wow.
And he needs someone coming off a win, not someone coming off a loss. Unless it's someone coming off a title-shot loss. That's acceptable.
He's a great fighter and a pleasure to watch, though Pellegrino put him in danger a few times while on their feet.
Hopefully he can make a run at better competition. I actually think he'd be good against a wrestler, as his BJJ is top-notch and he's shown he can really control the entire fight off his back.
His defensive BJJ is good. We haven't seen much BJJ offense from him that I can remember. He subbed Jason Dent and George Roop. Wow.
And he needs someone coming off a win, not someone coming off a loss. Unless it's someone coming off a title-shot loss. That's acceptable.
Only one way to find out, and that's more fights!
His inability to finish both of his last two fights was disconcerting, particularly with how dominantly he controlled Joe Stevenson.
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Car analogy time!
Coker's Ferrari is smashed, now he's just trying to salvage whatever parts he can for scrap. If Fedor loses to Werdum again, then Fedor-Reem loses what little drawing power it has left to the casual fan. And Werdum has no interest in Overeem avenging his loss by caving in Werdum's skull.
Back to Japan for a while, probably. Or the UFC if they'll let him do K-1. The Uberknee will be the true test of whether Lesnar can or can't be knocked out. Fujita could win a headbutting contest with a rock, and Overeem damn near killed him.
To be honest, I don't really understand why the UFC doesn't allow their fighters into K-1, but they do allow them into ADCC. Both are combat sports tournaments but neither are MMA, having more restrictive rules than MMA. Even the "if a UFC fighter loses in K-1 everyone will think he sucks" line doesn't work. GSP and Big Nog have lost at ADCC, does that mean their grappling sucks?
This.
Really? That seems counter-intuitive to me.
K-1 has some spectacular knockouts that likely produce concussions. Those can get bad for fighters in the long-term when they start racking up, but recovering from a single concussion usually doesn't take that long.
Grappling, and specifically jiu-jitsu, has a ton of techniques designed to break limbs and shred ligaments, there are no joint locks in kickboxing. Palhares could have easily destroyed Drwal's knee with that heel hook. Aoki busted Hirota's arm, just as Mir did to Sylvia. Granted those were all MMA matches, but they were grappling moves that would have been right at home in ADCC.
edit: Double-beat.
there is no reason why that man should be inside a ring again
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
There are very few injuries in sport BJJ. Guys competing at that level know when they're caught and tap, and the guys catching them know not to crank it. Respect is a huge part of Brazilian culture and therefore BJJ, so if a guy's known to hold subs he'll get blackballed very quickly.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSE-q29-TFw
I'm sure Roger totally got blackballed for making Aoki limp like that.
You forgot about this upcoming Saturday, DREAM 15
Lightweight Championship bout: Shinya Aoki (c) vs. Tatsuya Kawajiri
Light Heavyweight Grand Prix Opening Round bout: Melvin Manhoef vs. Tatsuya Mizuno
Lightweight bout: Gesias Cavalcante vs. Katsunori Kikuno
Middleweight bout: Kazuhiro Nakamura vs. Karl Amoussou
Featherweight bout: Michihiro Omigawa vs. Jong Young Sam
Light Heavyweight Grand Prix Opening Round bout: Gegard Mousasi vs. Jake O'Brien
Featherweight bout: Mitsuhiro Ishida vs. Daiki Hata
Also, you have to remember, June was fucking insane from beginning to the end. The rest of the year's going to seem tame.
If you want to become the new OP, say so now.
And War Machine vs. "The Natural".
Looks to me like he let go almost immediately
how the heck is war machine not in jail?
Yeah, he let got pretty darn quick. Dont be a hater.
Well played, CW.
Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
How odd of you to do the exact same thing that you always accuse others of. He didn't say that injuries didn't happen. He didn't say no one ever limped away from a BJJ match. What he did say, is it's frowned upon to hold a submission for longer than necessary, and making a habit of it will probably get you booted from competing. Gracie didn't hold that submission for one second longer than was needed.
I know, I know, don't feed the troll. But I find that you (B:L) have intelligent things to say from time to time, so I don't personally consider you a troll. But that? That post of yours? That's trolling. You purposely misconstrued what was being said, twisted it to suit your own purpose, and then posted a video backing up your counterpoint to a point that was never made in the first place.
I'm just pointing out the exception to the rule. Usually, it's safe. But when there's a grudge, career-affecting injuries can occur even at the highest levels.
Yea, you're right, he totally disrespected him by cranking enough to ensure that one of the best BJJers in the world submitted. That wasn't respect for his skills and making certain that Roger won or anything.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
Sure, it's still going to happen. People get hurt walking up stairs, for fuck's sake. But stair-climbing injuries (and BJJ competition injuries) are still quite a bit less likely than MMA/Kickboxing injuries, i'd think.
EDIT: Also, i meant Purposefully, not purposely. Damn you, Captain Morgan. Damn you.
8-)
Porpoisely!
Hes muthaluvin Shinya Aoki.
He knew roger was hitting that ankle lock. He tried to escape, couldnt, and tapped.
1)Ankle locks hurt like a mother
2)Aoki knows this
3)Even if you perform an ankle lock 100% perfectly (most people dont) its REALLY hard to break it. But it hurts.
4)Aoki tapped when he thought best, then limped because his ankle hurt, likely not due to actual injury, but pain.
In summary
Roger did nothing wrong
Aoki got hurt, not injured
DURRr yeah BJJ competitions can cause injuries, but its not common.
As was said earlier, if someone intentionally hurts his opponent, hes gonna get blackballed.
Pure grappling is, over all, safer than pure striking. How many childrens boxing matches do you see? Not many. They have children BJJ matches all the time, with only slightly modified rules (no leglocks period, no chokes til a certain age, etc.)
The man is unbeaten in the 6 fights he's had in the UFC (4 of those victories are at lightweight). He's looked very impressive in his last two outings against Joe Stevenson and Kurt Pellegrino. Personally, I'd like to see him face the loser of the Florian/Maynard fight in August. I think it would be the perfect step up in competition for him.
Thoughts?
I couldn't find any comparisons of BJJ vs kickboxing injury rates. Closest I got was:
Injuries in martial arts: a comparison of five styles
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1725005/pdf/v039p00029.pdf
Injury and injury rates in Muay Thai kickboxing
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1724381/pdf/v035p00308.pdf
Also, it appears that just looking at "grappling" in general in terms of injury rates appears to be useless. For example, judo produces more injuries than wrestling due to the use of high-impact throws and the constant twisting of planted legs. There's a lot of knee injuries in judo as a result.
Also, how the heck do 14% of Tai Chi ers get injured and laid off for a year?!
I bet the average age has something to do with it. :P
Yeah, have you ever gone by a park early in the morning? Often theres a whole bunch of elderly chinese people doing tai chi.
I NEED YOUR OPINIONS.
He's a great fighter and a pleasure to watch, though Pellegrino put him in danger a few times while on their feet.
Hopefully he can make a run at better competition. I actually think he'd be good against a wrestler, as his BJJ is top-notch and he's shown he can really control the entire fight off his back.
His defensive BJJ is good. We haven't seen much BJJ offense from him that I can remember. He subbed Jason Dent and George Roop. Wow.
And he needs someone coming off a win, not someone coming off a loss. Unless it's someone coming off a title-shot loss. That's acceptable.
Only one way to find out, and that's more fights!
His inability to finish both of his last two fights was disconcerting, particularly with how dominantly he controlled Joe Stevenson.