I think its funny that Wonder Woman gets so much controversy over her costume and no one seems to care that Batman is getting a modernized costume
Batman has always been getting modernized costumes, though.
It just seems like it's all character dependent. Superman and Wonder Woman are these classic, legendary heroes with very bright-and-defined ideals that shine like their costumes. They bring their essentially base, tried-and-true moral standards to all eras. Comparable to Captain America on the Marvel side of things; except he's a literal man-out-of-time, representing a past time of good-vs-evil in a modern world of greys.
Batman is whatever the era defines him as (and in a way, the political culture of the era itself). The cowl, cape, and chest symbol are almost always there. The color scheme is usually, but not always, the same or similar. But the design constantly fluxes. Comparable to Iron Man on the Marvel side; always changing with the tech and the politics.
It's hard to think of examples beyond those. Pretty much every other Marvel and DC character I can think of has received frequent subtle changes to their costumes over the years. I can't even think of any other characters with Iconic designs that have never changed over the years at all, baring the JSA.
Wonder Woman has gone through her share of costume changes, particularly in the 90's.
I think the difference is that the majority of things tied to the Batman franchise aren't terrible. Batman has things of quality to be enjoyed and fall back on. Wonder Woman... I'm pretty sure has never been good.
She started out as an excuse to make bondage comics, then became a source of merchandising revenue based solely on "She's a girl superhero!" and DC just kind of stuck with it. I've never heard anyone say any Wonder Woman comic described as being in the same league as even middle-range Superman and Batman stories.
There's always Linda Carter, but that's camp appeal. Nobody is going to use Adam West as genuine evidence to back Batman's greatness. (I would, but I lend a certain amount of credit to "Does it make me laugh?") Linda Carter IS Wonder Woman to mainstream audiences still. The character certainly has no Micheal Keaton or Christian Bale or even a good cartoon. WAIT!...
I will say this. The Wonder Woman direct-to-DVD movie kicked ass and I am genuinely disappointed to hear there will be no sequel. What's with that?
I think it's just a bad sign that the biggest news stories of the two characters in ten years was one being one of the highest grossing movies ever, and the other being a cosmetic change to their outfit.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Batman's had more successful costume variations than any other superhero, period. The different costumes are almost like fonts, the way they tweak all the same elements to emphasize different characteristics.
He retcons the "You have eaten well," moment from Batman: Year One to include Batman wetting himself in surprise at how big the pyrotechnics were.
Sigh.
There's also the general, "crushing the hero underneath the boot heel of reality," thing that keeps happening in comics, but the story is separated enough that I can pretend these characters and this story didn't happen.
I actually liked Quiver, despite being a huge mess of continuity. But I thought Sounds of Violence was dumb fun, which gave Ollie what could have been a really good arch-enemy, had DC not decided to reserve Onomatopoeia for Smith's use.
Kesel in the 90s. Between Marvel Knights and after the whole 90's armor costume thing. I assume you mean Matt being happy and not the racing kids on skateboards thing.
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
The last Joe Kelly DD arc #376-379 had DD work for SHIELD undercover, and part of that was to infiltrate some organization in France and he got his eyesight back and Cully Hamner drew it.
What now, TLB?
edit: Kesel and Kelly's DD run was so good, such a much needed upbeat era. Deuce the Devil Dog! Cary Nord drawing Ben Reilly hanging out with DD because he offered him a chili dog!
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Bob Gale/Phil Winslade's DD arc!
Matt has to go to court to sue DD!
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
isn't this the batman thread
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
Ok then, did anyone read Detective Comics #867? I wasn't going to get it but since I'm dropping the Superman books I might as well pick up this arc McDaniel's drawing. And it's supposed to be a 30 page story.
Rushed Jeanty art, or just not something you like?
Jeanty is kind of in the company of giants for this mini. And even with being the weaker artist, it's SUPER RUSHED. If he had time, I think he'd be able to at least make it up to snuff, but he didn't.
and it's too bad too. Because this issue was great otherwise
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I dont get how the art is crap. Looks average to me. Not bad, not offensive, no misshapen people or anything. Some pretty cool pages, like the splash of Batman at the start, etc. Its not Cameron Stewart or Frank Quitely type stuff, but this isn't stick figures or eye cancer either.
But KVW, average is crap for this level of storytelling, especially given the talent the book's seen for its first three issues. And man, cowboy Batman battles Jonah Hex and western Vandal Savage, that deserves the best.
I dont get how the art is crap. Looks average to me. Not bad, not offensive, no misshapen people or anything. Some pretty cool pages, like the splash of Batman at the start, etc. Its not Cameron Stewart or Frank Quitely type stuff, but this isn't stick figures or eye cancer either.
There's no depth to anything. The perspective in that is awful.
Or where Batman throws the 'rangs at the four dudes on the street. I know what he was going for, but it's just stiff. There's no implied motion or anything. It shows the batarangs on his belt and then batarangs in their arms (apparently exploding blood).
Also somewhere along the way Batman just ditched his utility belt for some reason (which is a pretty big deal since it's the only thing he brought from the future).
Part of it's the coloring, for sure. It's flat, and there are a lot of panels that change hair colors and stuff. But it was definitely rushed and nowhere near the standard set by every other artist on the series.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Yeah. A lot of flat faces. Like, faces that look like they're actually inside the head, because the contour is so rounding and the actual features smaller than they should be...
Honestly, it was serviceable. Yeah, could've been better, but the colouring made up for a lot. I don't entirely understand how Gotham got to be a frontier town-maybe we were on the outskirts of the city limits?
It was a little tiring to have two evil, vaguely supernatural characters vying for space in this comic. Especially when the Doctor did so little.
I wonder what Savage ever did about his cancer.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
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Batman has always been getting modernized costumes, though.
It just seems like it's all character dependent. Superman and Wonder Woman are these classic, legendary heroes with very bright-and-defined ideals that shine like their costumes. They bring their essentially base, tried-and-true moral standards to all eras. Comparable to Captain America on the Marvel side of things; except he's a literal man-out-of-time, representing a past time of good-vs-evil in a modern world of greys.
Batman is whatever the era defines him as (and in a way, the political culture of the era itself). The cowl, cape, and chest symbol are almost always there. The color scheme is usually, but not always, the same or similar. But the design constantly fluxes. Comparable to Iron Man on the Marvel side; always changing with the tech and the politics.
It's hard to think of examples beyond those. Pretty much every other Marvel and DC character I can think of has received frequent subtle changes to their costumes over the years. I can't even think of any other characters with Iconic designs that have never changed over the years at all, baring the JSA.
I think the difference is that the majority of things tied to the Batman franchise aren't terrible. Batman has things of quality to be enjoyed and fall back on. Wonder Woman... I'm pretty sure has never been good.
She started out as an excuse to make bondage comics, then became a source of merchandising revenue based solely on "She's a girl superhero!" and DC just kind of stuck with it. I've never heard anyone say any Wonder Woman comic described as being in the same league as even middle-range Superman and Batman stories.
There's always Linda Carter, but that's camp appeal. Nobody is going to use Adam West as genuine evidence to back Batman's greatness. (I would, but I lend a certain amount of credit to "Does it make me laugh?") Linda Carter IS Wonder Woman to mainstream audiences still. The character certainly has no Micheal Keaton or Christian Bale or even a good cartoon. WAIT!...
I will say this. The Wonder Woman direct-to-DVD movie kicked ass and I am genuinely disappointed to hear there will be no sequel. What's with that?
I think it's just a bad sign that the biggest news stories of the two characters in ten years was one being one of the highest grossing movies ever, and the other being a cosmetic change to their outfit.
Poor sales, as always. I'm just glad they got it in there before the top brass told them to stick to the cash cows.
That kind of counts for a WW and GL sequel?
Oh well. It doesn't matter.
Sigh.
There's also the general, "crushing the hero underneath the boot heel of reality," thing that keeps happening in comics, but the story is separated enough that I can pretend these characters and this story didn't happen.
This is news to no one
Hey, Guardian Devil would like to speak to you.
Although honestly that's the only Kevin Smith comic I've ever read. But it was still damn good.
or spider-man/black cat
or green arrow: quiver
they are all not good
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When you reference Nocenti's DD run and do it like you actually read the run, you get a thumbs up.
Is Widening Gyre supposed to be in continuity though?
and name any other recent run of daredevil that would ever have something like this happen
What now, TLB?
edit: Kesel and Kelly's DD run was so good, such a much needed upbeat era. Deuce the Devil Dog! Cary Nord drawing Ben Reilly hanging out with DD because he offered him a chili dog!
I'm talking like 1998 on
Matt has to go to court to sue DD!
you have to turn in your gun, here
this is your fault, Cameron Stewart
I use it to get results
What a waste.
Maybe they pay better, or he really really likes the game. I wouldn't blame him.
Jeanty is kind of in the company of giants for this mini. And even with being the weaker artist, it's SUPER RUSHED. If he had time, I think he'd be able to at least make it up to snuff, but he didn't.
and it's too bad too. Because this issue was great otherwise
Ok, so the art was crap. The plot, man. Anything as cool as the Archivist Scenes in #2?
The Orion stuff you were talking about makes another appearance.
I'm pretty optimistic for that book, actually. Karl Kerschl and Cameron Stewart making it? I'm there
There's no depth to anything. The perspective in that is awful.
Or where Batman throws the 'rangs at the four dudes on the street. I know what he was going for, but it's just stiff. There's no implied motion or anything. It shows the batarangs on his belt and then batarangs in their arms (apparently exploding blood).
Also somewhere along the way Batman just ditched his utility belt for some reason (which is a pretty big deal since it's the only thing he brought from the future).
Part of it's the coloring, for sure. It's flat, and there are a lot of panels that change hair colors and stuff. But it was definitely rushed and nowhere near the standard set by every other artist on the series.
Honestly, it was serviceable. Yeah, could've been better, but the colouring made up for a lot. I don't entirely understand how Gotham got to be a frontier town-maybe we were on the outskirts of the city limits?
It was a little tiring to have two evil, vaguely supernatural characters vying for space in this comic. Especially when the Doctor did so little.
I wonder what Savage ever did about his cancer.