Also somewhere along the way Batman just ditched his utility belt for some reason (which is a pretty big deal since it's the only thing he brought from the future).
He lost it back in issue 2. The one he had in this issue was a period piece - none of the batarangs were machined.
I dont get how the art is crap. Looks average to me. Not bad, not offensive, no misshapen people or anything. Some pretty cool pages, like the splash of Batman at the start, etc. Its not Cameron Stewart or Frank Quitely type stuff, but this isn't stick figures or eye cancer either.
Neither, the art looked alright and the writing was still amazing. Loved it.
I didn't like the art either. As Keith said, the perspective was all weird in some of the panels. There's no depth to it.
Actually, the conversation panels were mostly okay. Not great, but okay. The action panels were where the art really shows its weakness. Whenever something was happening, it hurt just to look at it.
And the people were had to distinguish from one another. There was so much inconsistency between panels on the very same page. Made the story hard to follow because I wasn't always sure who was doing what.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
The art didn't bother me, but the issue seemed the most scattershot so far.
I didn't know who the narrator was of the issue, for one.
Was it the Wayne member who was on the bridge during the final showdown?
I also thought Bruce was going to be in the 20's now, not the 70's.
The art didn't bother me, but the issue seemed the most scattershot so far.
I didn't know who the narrator was of the issue, for one.
Was it the Wayne member who was on the bridge during the final showdown?
I also thought Bruce was going to be in the 20's now, not the 70's.
Yeah, I think it was the Wayne because he was talking about the unfinished mansion and building it and crap. And he said something about making a giant bat-shaped garden to hide the box in. I'm guessing that probably Dick and Damien will be finding the box soon in modern times. Or else Bruce will find it in issue 6 and it will be the key to him finally getting back.
The art didn't bother me, but the issue seemed the most scattershot so far.
I didn't know who the narrator was of the issue, for one.
Was it the Wayne member who was on the bridge during the final showdown?
I also thought Bruce was going to be in the 20's now, not the 70's.
Yeah, I think it was the Wayne because he was talking about the unfinished mansion and building it and crap. And he said something about making a giant bat-shaped garden to hide the box in. I'm guessing that probably Dick and Damien will be finding the box soon in modern times. Or else Bruce will find it in issue 6 and it will be the key to him finally getting back.
Didn't Dr. Hurt already take the box from the garden in Batman vs. Robin?
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Yes, this happened.
I'm kinda suprised we're not getting that 20's gangland Gotham period...but, then again, I suppose that since it rubs a little too close to certain events in Crime Alley, Morrison thought it needed to be avoided entirely.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
See, I'm starting to wonder if the current B&R arc ties into RoBW so much that it will be how Sacrifice was a key part of OMAC Project but DC didn't say a thing about it and you're like "what the hell?"
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
See, I like the Batman/Catwoman stuff from Hush and Heart of Hush. There have definitely been some good stories that have been told about the two of them.
But the thing about Catwoman is that she isn't good enough for Bruce. Her moral code and his moral code just don't match up. Even now that she's reformed and is more of a mercenary than a thief, she's still way too much of a shady character.
Bruce is one of the most righteous dudes. Wonder Woman is a much better match for Bruce, because Diana sees things in as much of black and white as Bruce does.
It's not about who makes the most sense as a love interest for a character, but who makes for the most interesting love interest. A constant source of friction like differing moral codes is ideal, especially for a loner-types who aren't meant to have stable relationships with women.
See, I'm starting to wonder if the current B&R arc ties into RoBW so much that it will be how Sacrifice was a key part of OMAC Project but DC didn't say a thing about it and you're like "what the hell?"
What's this about Tex? You can't mess with me like this.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
OMAC Project, the Countdown to Infinite Crisis mini, dealt with Max Lord being a punk.
But in the Superman titles at the time, and Wonder Woman, there was a story that took place pretty much out of nowhere between OMAC #3 & 4 (I think), where Max Lord controls Superman's mind for the 3 Superman issues and then in WW Diana beats up Superman and kills Max Lord.
So you go from OMAC #3 to 4 where on the first pages you see Diana killed Max Lord, and I'm sitting here going "what the hell?" I just read Action Comics out of that 4-part story so I had no idea what was going on when it shows up in OMAC #4.
And then I was just tired of OMACs in general and quit on the mini.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited July 2010
Wonder Woman is trained for battle. She has killed and will kill again. She will go fight villains with an axe or a sword in her hand. She can be brutal.
That would probably be the source of many conflicts between her and Bruce. The other main source of conflict is that Bruce couldn't spend time with Diana as Bruce Wayne. He doesn't run in those circles as Bruce Wayne.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
It would make more sense for her to go as Diana Prince. In fact, Bruce is the one who set her up with that identity. And she's pretty hot as Diana Prince so she'd definitely fit right in as one of Bruce's hotties.
OMAC Project, the Countdown to Infinite Crisis mini, dealt with Max Lord being a punk.
But in the Superman titles at the time, and Wonder Woman, there was a story that took place pretty much out of nowhere between OMAC #3 & 4 (I think), where Max Lord controls Superman's mind for the 3 Superman issues and then in WW Diana beats up Superman and kills Max Lord.
So you go from OMAC #3 to 4 where on the first pages you see Diana killed Max Lord, and I'm sitting here going "what the hell?" I just read Action Comics out of that 4-part story so I had no idea what was going on when it shows up in OMAC #4.
And then I was just tired of OMACs in general and quit on the mini.
I read the trade of OMAC last year on a whim, thinking that the tie-ins to Infinite Crisis didn't really matter, but remembering how my friends who were reading at the time were really upset by Ted Kord's death.
I was blown away by how important that story was to Infinite Crisis, and how unimportant the other 3 tie-in series seemed to be. If I hadn't read it, I think there would've been massive chunks of IC I would've had to struggle to find context for.
BUT, the OMAC trade didn't have any of those Superissues either. It had a few excerpted panels and a text explanation of what when down. It did, however, have the WW issue.
I just got finished reading Batgirl #12 I just want to know who is that guy in the prison cell in the end? Is it....
Cluemaster (Steph's father)?
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited July 2010
No, that is someone else. See the beginning of Batgirl #9.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2010
still pissed that we didn't get that Cluemaster Robin story from Chuck Dixon
still pissed that DC did whatever they did to drive Chuck Dixon away
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
I was re-reading Return of Bruce Wayne, and noticed in the beginning an exchange between the cave-folk, involving the shell necklace. I know it's supposed to be a stand-in for the string of pearls, but Man mentions that it must be handed down through the generations until the 'All Over,' a phrase that gets more play later on. It's funny, because everything's been making such a big deal about what's inside that damn box, but the necklace has been following along just as well, but I hadn't really noticed it so much, maybe because no one's trying to kill anybody over it or something...
I'm wondering if the Box is totally a misdirect. I'm thinking that, or it's got the Bat-Radia in it.
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
This.
This is not good.
Can we call a moratorium on shit?
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
He didn't like the A-Team movie, apparently.
He is 50/50 now, because that Dookie Knight is hilarious.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited August 2010
Is it me, or is Tim getting increasingly Machiavellian in his scheming? I like it, but he has set himself up a very tough act. Years from now, when Tim becomes Batman for reals he is going to be super awesome.
Dick makes a perfectly acceptable Batman, but everyone involved knows that Tim is smarter than he is, and he is cool with that.
Just_Bri_Thanks on
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Is it me, or is Tim getting increasingly Machiavellian in his scheming? I like it, but he has set himself up a very tough act. Years from now, when Tim becomes Batman for reals he is going to be super awesome.
Dick makes a perfectly acceptable Batman, but everyone involved knows that Tim is smarter than he is, and he is cool with that.
Wasn't Tim always the Detective Robin? I think it's cool that the various Robins have been aspects of Batman's overall personality, Dick is heroic and straightforward, Tim is clever and perceptive, Jason was uncompromising and rage-filled, and you could probably also fit the Batgirls in there too if you wanted to. Batman being the base from which all these characters develop from and the balance between them is a cool part of the bat-verse in my opinion.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited August 2010
I don't get the same vibe from Tim as I got from Bruce Batman though. I mean, I know Bruce said that Tim was likely smarter that he was, and "We all will be working for him one day", but when Tim targets a bad guy these days it is like he is playing a 3D game of pool using nothing but combo shots.
Edit: And aside from being the best detective of the Robins, I think he is the super ninja sneakiest.
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Is it me, or is Tim getting increasingly Machiavellian in his scheming? I like it, but he has set himself up a very tough act. Years from now, when Tim becomes Batman for reals he is going to be super awesome.
Dick makes a perfectly acceptable Batman, but everyone involved knows that Tim is smarter than he is, and he is cool with that.
I always get this feeling that Dick has some plan to take on Tim if he ever goes too far.
For instance, in what Tim is doing now with his computer program with the villains, Dick understands and is letting him do things his way along with the Vicki Vale stuff, because they are truly brothers the way no one else is in DC right now. But I get this sense that Dick learned from Bruce always be prepared for your closest friend turning on you, and is kind of playing dumb a bit to hide his trick card.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
edited August 2010
Didn't they just address that last issue?
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...and when you are done with that; take a folding
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited August 2010
Yeah, Dick said "I notice I'm not on there" and Tim said "Yeah 'cause I know you'll never turn"
and then when dick left tim opened up his folder of nude Dick pics and cried himself to sleep
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
No, last issue it was all
"you did realize Damien would find out you put him on a hero watch list, right?"
"are you upset about it?"
"No, I know you well enough you aren't going to go off the deep end, in any case I'd be there"
*fist bump*
I mean Dick could beat Tim pretty easily hand to hand if that's what it took to stop Tim if he ever went baddie, but I kind of like the idea that Dick plays aloof a lot more than he has to to throw off people, and banging Babs all the time he had to pick up some tech tricks via sexmosis no one knows about. Like he has some Kryptonian tech or some kind of mcguffin (and this being Nicieza it would be a really cool mcguffin).
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited August 2010
I don't like Tim having the whole list of the JLA
back after Tower of Babel, Young Justice and Titans were treating Tim and Dick like assholes all "hey since batman's a prick you guys probably are too" and they were all "no we wouldn't do that we actually trust people"
and now he doesn't
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited August 2010
I can't believe he doesn't trust Guy Gardner.
I didn't realize the Titans were a dick to Dick, seeing as how he has told Batman to pound sand a half dozen times when he goes too far (he even punched him during Bruce Wayne: Murderer). To the Titans this would be nothing new.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Although now that I think about it, this last issue might be considered a reverse Xanatos Gambit if you are flexible enough to consider that a good guy going it as a reversal.
The setup is that he is going to out the corrupt cops that have been interfering with his gang violence initiative on public television. In response, they hire an assassin to execute him publicly. He swaps in a double that doesn't care much about bullets and then takes down the shooter while his double is rushed to the hospital. Then he fakes a lasting injury to complete the task of throwing off a reporter who is piecing together the identities of the bat family. Finally, he outs the cops anyway, now reinforced by the apprehension of the assassin who they had hired to kill him.
Posts
He lost it back in issue 2. The one he had in this issue was a period piece - none of the batarangs were machined.
Neither, the art looked alright and the writing was still amazing. Loved it.
Actually, the conversation panels were mostly okay. Not great, but okay. The action panels were where the art really shows its weakness. Whenever something was happening, it hurt just to look at it.
And the people were had to distinguish from one another. There was so much inconsistency between panels on the very same page. Made the story hard to follow because I wasn't always sure who was doing what.
I didn't know who the narrator was of the issue, for one.
I also thought Bruce was going to be in the 20's now, not the 70's.
I'm kinda suprised we're not getting that 20's gangland Gotham period...but, then again, I suppose that since it rubs a little too close to certain events in Crime Alley, Morrison thought it needed to be avoided entirely.
Couple to be wed dressed as Batman and WW
That means they are the best couple! Suck on that Catwoman.
It's the principle of the thing!
and this is one of the best reviews I've read, tearing widening gyre #6 a new one
But the thing about Catwoman is that she isn't good enough for Bruce. Her moral code and his moral code just don't match up. Even now that she's reformed and is more of a mercenary than a thief, she's still way too much of a shady character.
Bruce is one of the most righteous dudes. Wonder Woman is a much better match for Bruce, because Diana sees things in as much of black and white as Bruce does.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
What's this about Tex? You can't mess with me like this.
But in the Superman titles at the time, and Wonder Woman, there was a story that took place pretty much out of nowhere between OMAC #3 & 4 (I think), where Max Lord controls Superman's mind for the 3 Superman issues and then in WW Diana beats up Superman and kills Max Lord.
So you go from OMAC #3 to 4 where on the first pages you see Diana killed Max Lord, and I'm sitting here going "what the hell?" I just read Action Comics out of that 4-part story so I had no idea what was going on when it shows up in OMAC #4.
And then I was just tired of OMACs in general and quit on the mini.
That would probably be the source of many conflicts between her and Bruce. The other main source of conflict is that Bruce couldn't spend time with Diana as Bruce Wayne. He doesn't run in those circles as Bruce Wayne.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I read the trade of OMAC last year on a whim, thinking that the tie-ins to Infinite Crisis didn't really matter, but remembering how my friends who were reading at the time were really upset by Ted Kord's death.
I was blown away by how important that story was to Infinite Crisis, and how unimportant the other 3 tie-in series seemed to be. If I hadn't read it, I think there would've been massive chunks of IC I would've had to struggle to find context for.
BUT, the OMAC trade didn't have any of those Superissues either. It had a few excerpted panels and a text explanation of what when down. It did, however, have the WW issue.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
still pissed that DC did whatever they did to drive Chuck Dixon away
I'm wondering if the Box is totally a misdirect. I'm thinking that, or it's got the Bat-Radia in it.
This is not good.
Can we call a moratorium on shit?
He is 50/50 now, because that Dookie Knight is hilarious.
Dick makes a perfectly acceptable Batman, but everyone involved knows that Tim is smarter than he is, and he is cool with that.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Wasn't Tim always the Detective Robin? I think it's cool that the various Robins have been aspects of Batman's overall personality, Dick is heroic and straightforward, Tim is clever and perceptive, Jason was uncompromising and rage-filled, and you could probably also fit the Batgirls in there too if you wanted to. Batman being the base from which all these characters develop from and the balance between them is a cool part of the bat-verse in my opinion.
Edit: And aside from being the best detective of the Robins, I think he is the super ninja sneakiest.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
I always get this feeling that Dick has some plan to take on Tim if he ever goes too far.
For instance, in what Tim is doing now with his computer program with the villains, Dick understands and is letting him do things his way along with the Vicki Vale stuff, because they are truly brothers the way no one else is in DC right now. But I get this sense that Dick learned from Bruce always be prepared for your closest friend turning on you, and is kind of playing dumb a bit to hide his trick card.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
and then when dick left tim opened up his folder of nude Dick pics and cried himself to sleep
"you did realize Damien would find out you put him on a hero watch list, right?"
"are you upset about it?"
"No, I know you well enough you aren't going to go off the deep end, in any case I'd be there"
*fist bump*
I mean Dick could beat Tim pretty easily hand to hand if that's what it took to stop Tim if he ever went baddie, but I kind of like the idea that Dick plays aloof a lot more than he has to to throw off people, and banging Babs all the time he had to pick up some tech tricks via sexmosis no one knows about. Like he has some Kryptonian tech or some kind of mcguffin (and this being Nicieza it would be a really cool mcguffin).
back after Tower of Babel, Young Justice and Titans were treating Tim and Dick like assholes all "hey since batman's a prick you guys probably are too" and they were all "no we wouldn't do that we actually trust people"
and now he doesn't
I didn't realize the Titans were a dick to Dick, seeing as how he has told Batman to pound sand a half dozen times when he goes too far (he even punched him during Bruce Wayne: Murderer). To the Titans this would be nothing new.
it was 2000. everyone was docking
Although now that I think about it, this last issue might be considered a reverse Xanatos Gambit if you are flexible enough to consider that a good guy going it as a reversal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt4329_W_s0&NR=1
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.