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The Spider-Man 3 Discussion Thread

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    That having been said, has Venom ever really had an "evil scheme?" I mean, aside from fuck with Spider-Man and occasionally go vigilante, what has he ever done?
    Once he kidnapped Spider-Man's parents to protect them from Spider-Man, but I think that's it.

    Eddie Brock came over to his house and introduced himself to Aunt May too.

    Munkus Beaver on
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  • ScrumtrulescentScrumtrulescent Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Wasn't he a part of the original Sinister Six?

    Scrumtrulescent on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Wasn't he a part of the original Sinister Six?

    Naw, I believe the original Sinister Six predates Venom.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • ScrumtrulescentScrumtrulescent Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Right you are, Original was Kraven, Electro, Mysterio, Ock, Sandman and Vulture.

    Venom was in there at some point, though.

    Scrumtrulescent on
  • GuekGuek Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Right you are, Original was Kraven, Electro, Mysterio, Ock, Sandman and Vulture.

    Venom was in there at some point, though.

    and then he beat the ever living shit out of all of em. twas good times

    Guek on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Well if they didn't kill off Doc Ock, and make Sandman a good guy...

    Of course we can always say Doc Ock didn't die, but nearly drowning made him crazy/conveniently forget who Spider-man was, toss in Rhino or Shocker or some other villain no one cares about to replace Sandman(or even Hydroman) and bam.

    Sinister Six.

    The Muffin Man on
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    hughtron wrote: »
    Additionally: They can easily do a sequel since
    Conners still has a little bit of the symbiote.
    But Brock's dead. So whoever it would be wouldn't be Venom.

    Target Practice on
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  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I care about Rhino and Shocker.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Rhino or Shocker would make a nice throwaway villain for Spidey to beat in the first five to ten minutes of the movie.

    But the costume / special effects / whatever would probably be too expensive to warrant on a character with that little screentime. Venom was bad enough in this regard.

    Target Practice on
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  • LRGLRG Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Spidey 3 >>>>>> Spidey 2



    So I was happy

    LRG on
  • graizurgraizur __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    In the theater where I went to see Spider-Man 3 a lot of people were talking. Some thing that I heard a couple of time was "Too much talking, more fighting". Which made me think that the audience for these movies don't really want a story or character development. The customer/audience for these summer blockbusters have similar tastes to the people who watch gladiatorial combat in the Roman gladiator arenas. These people really just want epic battles. More or less special effects boxing matches. They hoot and cheer when characters do courageous things of humorous failures. I think with the advancement of video game graphics this is where things will go. Spider-Man 3 had as much story as you needed to have those battles and then a little bit of redemption and justice.

    Sorry if this sounds classist or too hoity toity a discussion for PA forums.

    graizur on
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    graizur wrote: »
    In the theater where I went to see Spider-Man 3 a lot of people were talking. Some thing that I heard a couple of time was "Too much talking, more fighting".

    These people obviously didn't watch the first two movies

    Target Practice on
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  • graizurgraizur __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    graizur wrote: »
    In the theater where I went to see Spider-Man 3 a lot of people were talking. Some thing that I heard a couple of time was "Too much talking, more fighting".

    These people obviously didn't watch the first two movies

    Or were very young kids who, in their teenage years, only remembered the violent bits.

    graizur on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    hughtron wrote: »
    Additionally: They can easily do a sequel since
    Conners still has a little bit of the symbiote.
    But Brock's dead. So whoever it would be wouldn't be Venom.

    Gargan.

    The Muffin Man on
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Well if they didn't kill off Doc Ock, and make Sandman a good guy...

    Of course we can always say Doc Ock didn't die, but nearly drowning made him crazy/conveniently forget who Spider-man was, toss in Rhino or Shocker or some other villain no one cares about to replace Sandman(or even Hydroman) and bam.

    Sinister Six.

    Except that I don't think there's any way they could work 6 villains into one movie. It would just be too much. There'd be no focus. They're getting so much flak for 3 villains this time around, doubling that would be disastrous.

    Grey Ghost on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Well if they didn't kill off Doc Ock, and make Sandman a good guy...

    Of course we can always say Doc Ock didn't die, but nearly drowning made him crazy/conveniently forget who Spider-man was, toss in Rhino or Shocker or some other villain no one cares about to replace Sandman(or even Hydroman) and bam.

    Sinister Six.

    Except that I don't think there's any way they could work 6 villains into one movie. It would just be too much. There'd be no focus. They're getting so much flak for 3 villains this time around, doubling that would be disastrous.

    They could use 2 a movie until the last movie. Doc Ock is already established, and they can use someone like Shocker for the 6th and show him during that movie.

    The Muffin Man on
  • ZephonateZephonate Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    At first, I thought the idea of a Sinister Six movie would be pretty cool, but now i'm under the impression that the ONLY way they could pull it off would be if they set up several villains over the course of the next three movies, then have them all converge in the final one.

    Did anyone here read the Spider-Man novel "Revenge of the Sinister Six" by Adam-Troy Castro? That novel was fucking fantastic. Great characterization, nice use and inclusion of each villain, and a believable scheme for them to put together. I think something on that scale (laying seige to New York, etc.) would be great for a final movie.

    Related side-note: It's been a while since I've read some good Spidey. The only ones I currently have in my collection are Maximum Carnage, the first 50 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man in trade form, and some random issues spread throughout the years. Anyone know of any must-read trades? Don't care what villains, just that it's got some excellent writing and art. Thinking of picking up the new Birth of Venom they just released to coincide with the movie. Anyone know of any others?

    Zephonate on
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  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Spider-Man/Human Torch: I'm With Stupid is really fun.

    And Spider-Man's Tangled Web was a pretty good series.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • siliconenhancedsiliconenhanced __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2007
    I just remembered Peter's shit talking to Harry after he beat his ass in his mansion. I thought that was fucking gold.

    Also, I don't think Brock is dead at all. We'll see Venom again, I'm sure, especially if Maximum Carnage is the next movie.

    siliconenhanced on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Why would they make Maximum Carnage into a movie? It was a terrible story.

    They may have Carnage go on a killing spree like he did in Maximum Carnage, but that's literally all you can expect from the character.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I really liked a lot of the 90's Spidey stuff. Don't shoot me.

    I'd recommened the Revenge of the Sinister Six and Round Robin arcs. Also anything with Scarlet Spider/Ben. I haven't red any Spider-Man since the near-end of the whole Clone Saga, really. I was one of the few that wanted Ben to stay. So, while I recommened all the Scarlet Spider miniseries and a lot of the arcs when he was Spidey, I don't think anyone would agree with me there.

    Reynolds on
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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Please, please no Carnage if they do another one.

    Electro, Scorpion, Lizard, Mysterio would all be acceptable.

    Or if they really wanted to fuck with people they could adapt Kraven's Last Hunt.

    Balefuego on
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  • Sharp101Sharp101 TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I've always liked Shocker. I really REALLY want to see him in a movie. Even if it's just a couple scenes of him robbing a bank and getting stopped. I just really think his costume would look awesome made real. All dark Red and Yellow stitched leathery looking stuff. And the effects his 'powers' would have, and damage they could make them do, all awesome.

    Sharp101 on
  • Calamity JaneCalamity Jane That Wrong Love Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Please, please no Carnage if they do another one.

    Electro, Scorpion, Lizard, Mysterio would all be acceptable.

    Or if they really wanted to fuck with people they could adapt Kraven's Last Hunt.

    Starring Ted Nugent.

    Calamity Jane on
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  • VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    I honestly think we will the Venom suit again on someone different rather than Carnage for one simple reason. Venom is black. Carnage is red. Spider-man is red (mostly). What makes more sense for the uninitiated movie-goer, two characters with essentially the same powers but obviously different appearances, or two characters with essentially the same powers but quite similar appearances?

    Edit: I mean, he might be CALLED Carnage, but it will effectively just be Venom with a different host.

    Keep in mind, in X3 Nightcrawler got cut because they felt there were too many "blue" characters, despite the fact that Beast, Nightcrawler and Mystique were all had extremely different looks.

    My picks would be Lizard and Mysterio (played by Bruce Campbell). That would work well I think, as there is quite a contrast between the two, Lizard is very brute-force while Mysterio is all about technology and mindgames.

    Virral on
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  • ZephonateZephonate Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Virral wrote: »
    I honestly think we will the Venom suit again on someone different rather than Carnage for one simple reason. Venom is black. Carnage is red. Spider-man is red (mostly). What makes more sense for the uninitiated movie-goer, two characters with essentially the same powers but obviously different appearances, or two characters with essentially the same powers but quite similar appearances?

    Edit: I mean, he might be CALLED Carnage, but it will effectively just be Venom with a different host.

    Keep in mind, in X3 Nightcrawler got cut because they felt there were too many "blue" characters, despite the fact that Beast, Nightcrawler and Mystique were all had extremely different looks.

    My picks would be Lizard and Mysterio (played by Bruce Campbell). That would work well I think, as there is quite a contrast between the two, Lizard is very brute-force while Mysterio is all about technology and mindgames.

    First off, Carnage is red for a reason. The symbiote infects Cletus Kassady's blood. It's not a red symbiote and a black symbiote. The color has nothing to do with it. Besides, I think if Carnage were to be in a movie, Venom would have to come back, because they would need him to help along the explanation of WHY Carnage looks different from him, that he's a "child" symbiote, etc. They would never do such a disservice to the Carnage fans out there (of which there are many) by making him Venom with a different name. Though they come from the same thing, they are both VERY different in appearance, character, personality, and powers.

    I don't believe that bit about Nightcrawler for a minute. I thought Cummings just didn't want to come back for the third. I can't possibly see the writers and director cutting him (a fan favorite) from the movie, based on the sole cosmetic fact that he's blue. Plus, there's a reason there're so many blue characters. Mystique's son, remember?

    I do admit though that I would enjoy the dichotomy between Lizard and Mysterio. And didn't I hear somewhere a while back that Campbell's cameo in 3 was supposed to be as Quentin Beck in order to set up for another movie? Whatev, he's the only real obvious choice the part anyway.

    Zephonate on
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    "For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli's eyes. And what he saw was...himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love."
    --John Ajvide Lindqvist, Let the Right One In (Page 446).
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Alan Cumming was reportedly uncomfortable with the long hours he had to take with the Nightcrawler makeup, but still planned to return for X-Men: The Last Stand. The part for Nightcrawler was so minimal, however, that the studio felt it was not worthwhile to go through the long and costly makeup process, and the character was cut.[3] Nightcrawler's absence was explained in the tie-in game.

    Lizard and Mysterio are pretty much polar opposites, with scientific pursuit devolving into barbarism and the fairly barbaric acts of robbery and violence elevating themselves to art through the use of technologies and theatrics.

    I don't think there's much to the pairing, though, beyond the fact that they're opposites. I'd enjoy noticing the differences, but it's not something I could enjoy for two hours.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • theResetButtontheResetButton Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    venom47.gif

    He was a little bit small for Venom. And too nerdy and too young.

    I didn't hate the film, but I was disappointed.

    theResetButton on
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  • Dex DynamoDex Dynamo Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    It's been said in this thread before, but they go out of their way in 3 to point out Connors in the movies isn't a biologist. He's a physicist. And physics won't get you DNA and super-experiments. Not to say I don't want a lizard story though.

    Dex Dynamo on
  • Sharp101Sharp101 TorontoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    venom47.gif

    He was a little bit small for Venom. And too nerdy and too young.

    I didn't hate the film, but I was disappointed.

    Man, Have you seen Ultimate Eddie?
    EddieBrockJr.jpg

    Sharp101 on
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 2007
    I can see them doing carnage in the same way they did the new goblin.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Was anyone else really, really, really bothered by the fact that Spider-Man was seemingly incapable of keeping the mask on his head? If I go see Spider-Man, I really want to see Spider-Man, not Tobey Maguire's head on a Spider-Man suit. I mean, it pissed me off in the first movie, but now it was just ridicolous. He was losing the mask ALL THE TIME.

    And Kirsten Dunst is awful Mary Jane. I don't think I have ever wanted a movie character to die so much. Gwen Stacy was hot by the way. Much better then MJ.

    DarkCrawler on
  • VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Zephonate wrote: »
    Virral wrote: »
    I honestly think we will the Venom suit again on someone different rather than Carnage for one simple reason. Venom is black. Carnage is red. Spider-man is red (mostly). What makes more sense for the uninitiated movie-goer, two characters with essentially the same powers but obviously different appearances, or two characters with essentially the same powers but quite similar appearances?

    Edit: I mean, he might be CALLED Carnage, but it will effectively just be Venom with a different host.

    Keep in mind, in X3 Nightcrawler got cut because they felt there were too many "blue" characters, despite the fact that Beast, Nightcrawler and Mystique were all had extremely different looks.

    My picks would be Lizard and Mysterio (played by Bruce Campbell). That would work well I think, as there is quite a contrast between the two, Lizard is very brute-force while Mysterio is all about technology and mindgames.

    First off, Carnage is red for a reason. The symbiote infects Cletus Kassady's blood. It's not a red symbiote and a black symbiote. The color has nothing to do with it. Besides, I think if Carnage were to be in a movie, Venom would have to come back, because they would need him to help along the explanation of WHY Carnage looks different from him, that he's a "child" symbiote, etc. They would never do such a disservice to the Carnage fans out there (of which there are many) by making him Venom with a different name. Though they come from the same thing, they are both VERY different in appearance, character, personality, and powers.

    I don't believe that bit about Nightcrawler for a minute. I thought Cummings just didn't want to come back for the third. I can't possibly see the writers and director cutting him (a fan favorite) from the movie, based on the sole cosmetic fact that he's blue. Plus, there's a reason there're so many blue characters. Mystique's son, remember?

    I do admit though that I would enjoy the dichotomy between Lizard and Mysterio. And didn't I hear somewhere a while back that Campbell's cameo in 3 was supposed to be as Quentin Beck in order to set up for another movie? Whatev, he's the only real obvious choice the part anyway.

    The reason WHY he is red isn't important (I knew, by the way). I'm just saying, they went to the trouble of introducing the black suit, and if they DO bring it back, they are not going to bring it back as a RED suit because it will confuse people. In my opinion. And I am well aware of the differences between the two characters, but the majority of people who do go and see the movies aren't that familiar with them. Unless they read Spider-man comics, they may well find Venom familiar but chances are they don't know the ins and outs of Carnage.

    That is purely my opinion on the matter, it isn't a comment on the suitability or otherwise of the character for the movie (although to be frank, I think Carnage is too homicidal a character for a movie like Spider-man, at least Venom has some motivation... Kasady is just batshit insane).

    About the Nightcrawler thing, that was my understanding of what happened, but admittedly I found little to back it up with a quick Google search. It is clear that it was the studios decision not to use Nightcrawler in X3, not the actor, but beyond that I'll conceed I am going off rumors.

    Virral on
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  • VirralVirral Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Sharp101 wrote: »
    venom47.gif

    He was a little bit small for Venom. And too nerdy and too young.

    I didn't hate the film, but I was disappointed.

    Man, Have you seen Ultimate Eddie?
    EddieBrockJr.jpg
    As Venom he was significantly beefier, it wasn't just Topher in the black suit. I thought he did a pretty good job to be honest.

    Virral on
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  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Fuck Warren Ellis Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Zephonate wrote: »
    Virral wrote: »
    I honestly think we will the Venom suit again on someone different rather than Carnage for one simple reason. Venom is black. Carnage is red. Spider-man is red (mostly). What makes more sense for the uninitiated movie-goer, two characters with essentially the same powers but obviously different appearances, or two characters with essentially the same powers but quite similar appearances?

    Edit: I mean, he might be CALLED Carnage, but it will effectively just be Venom with a different host.

    Keep in mind, in X3 Nightcrawler got cut because they felt there were too many "blue" characters, despite the fact that Beast, Nightcrawler and Mystique were all had extremely different looks.

    My picks would be Lizard and Mysterio (played by Bruce Campbell). That would work well I think, as there is quite a contrast between the two, Lizard is very brute-force while Mysterio is all about technology and mindgames.

    First off, Carnage is red for a reason. The symbiote infects Cletus Kassady's blood. It's not a red symbiote and a black symbiote. The color has nothing to do with it. Besides, I think if Carnage were to be in a movie, Venom would have to come back, because they would need him to help along the explanation of WHY Carnage looks different from him, that he's a "child" symbiote, etc. They would never do such a disservice to the Carnage fans out there (of which there are many) by making him Venom with a different name. Though they come from the same thing, they are both VERY different in appearance, character, personality, and powers.

    I don't believe that bit about Nightcrawler for a minute. I thought Cummings just didn't want to come back for the third. I can't possibly see the writers and director cutting him (a fan favorite) from the movie, based on the sole cosmetic fact that he's blue. Plus, there's a reason there're so many blue characters. Mystique's son, remember?

    I do admit though that I would enjoy the dichotomy between Lizard and Mysterio. And didn't I hear somewhere a while back that Campbell's cameo in 3 was supposed to be as Quentin Beck in order to set up for another movie? Whatev, he's the only real obvious choice the part anyway.


    The thing about Nightcrawler is true. I know someone who worked on the movie and when I asked him why Nightcrawler wasn't in it he gave me the same reason.

    SatanIsMyMotor on
  • Target PracticeTarget Practice Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Jesus fucking hell, what is with all these people going "lol maximum carnage"

    What, do you want a Clone Saga movie too?

    Target Practice on
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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    Jesus fucking hell, what is with all these people going "lol maximum carnage"

    What, do you want a Clone Saga movie too?

    Agree 100%

    Spider-Man has a LARGE gallery of villians that could be adapted for the movies. Carnage would be on the bottom of the list because Venom serves the same purpose and does it better.

    I also don't get the Clone Saga love.

    Algertman on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited May 2007
    What I would have loved? A reverse of the bridge scene (she doesn't have to die, maybe a coma or something. No matter what it would completely fuck with the audience, especially sonsidering the first movie), and then Spidey gets with Gwen.

    Fencingsax on
  • HooraydiationHooraydiation Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    To be fair, I think Carnage might be unique in respects to being the only Spider-Man villain who is a mass murderer. If we're going to make a film that studies Spider-Man's feelings in the face of failing to save lives, the villain needs to be somebody who's determined to kill.

    Hooraydiation on
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  • AlgertmanAlgertman Registered User regular
    edited May 2007
    To be fair, I think Carnage might be unique in respects to being the only Spider-Man villain who is a mass murderer. If we're going to make a film that studies Spider-Man's feelings in the face of failing to save lives, the villain needs to be somebody who's determined to kill.

    I see what you mean, but these movies are made with children in mind. They would have to do a major overhaul to Carnage to get him to fit right.

    Algertman on
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