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Alpha Protocol:The **** offspring of Ronald Reagan and an **** American Ninja !!!

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Posts

  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    If you need to call it solely an rpg to make yourself feel better about the game, fine. Then they should have gone whole hog, had it be turn based, shown you the calculations for why you hit and miss. Dressing it up as a terrible shooter just gives you the worst of both worlds.

    PolloDiablo on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    jefe414 wrote: »
    I'm still not sure why people expect this game to play like a 3rd person shooter. It isn't. Sure, same camera, you can take cover, etc. but it isn't a shooter. At all, period. If you don't like that, cool. Not a problem, personal opinions and all that but for those reviewers, getting mad at a game for not playing the way you want it to is simply stupid. "I hate Alpha Protocol/ME2/Fallout3 because it isn't Street Fighter and that is what I wanted/expected".

    I'm confused by this statement.

    When there's a group of bad guys on the other end of the room shooting at me... what exactly am I expected to do then if it's not a 3rd person shooter? Ask them to kindly put down their guns, replace them with hoes, and engage in a little farm sim action?

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Why would people expect this to play like a 3rd person shooter?

    Shouldn't they expect it to play similar to a stealth game? You can't exactly run and gun in Splinter Cell.

    gjaustin on
  • Zetetic ElenchZetetic Elench Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    An RPG/shooter argument? In my Alpha Protocol thread?

    Zetetic Elench on
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  • jefe414jefe414 "My Other Drill Hole is a Teleporter" Mechagodzilla is Best GodzillaRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    jefe414 wrote: »
    I'm still not sure why people expect this game to play like a 3rd person shooter. It isn't. Sure, same camera, you can take cover, etc. but it isn't a shooter. At all, period. If you don't like that, cool. Not a problem, personal opinions and all that but for those reviewers, getting mad at a game for not playing the way you want it to is simply stupid. "I hate Alpha Protocol/ME2/Fallout3 because it isn't Street Fighter and that is what I wanted/expected".

    I'm confused by this statement.

    When there's a group of bad guys on the other end of the room shooting at me... what exactly am I expected to do then if it's not a 3rd person shooter? Ask them to kindly put down their guns, replace them with hoes, and engage in a little farm sim action?

    Or use your abilities. Because it is a RPG not a shooter. Doesn't really matter though. The critics have spoken, the game sold what it sold and let's hope any good stuff (I liked the dialog system though not the timer) is incorporated into future games.

    jefe414 on
    Xbox Live: Jefe414
  • spamfilterspamfilter Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Combat in RPGs are always highly conceptualized. They are meant to simulate a combat system, even if the trappings of it look like a 3rd person shooter.

    spamfilter on
  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    If you need to call it solely an rpg to make yourself feel better about the game, fine. Then they should have gone whole hog, had it be turn based, shown you the calculations for why you hit and miss. Dressing it up as a terrible shooter just gives you the worst of both worlds.

    Who called it solely a rpg? It's a hybrid that while the controls are typical shooter controls the gameplay itself is heavily based on rpg elements. And why should it be turn based?

    What do you usually say when people bring up the combat systems of Deus Ex, Bloodlines and Mass Effect 1?

    C2B on
  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    An RPG/shooter argument? In my Alpha Protocol thread?

    It may be closer than you think. Click Here.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
  • SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    captaink wrote: »
    jefe414 wrote: »
    I'm still not sure why people expect this game to play like a 3rd person shooter. It isn't. Sure, same camera, you can take cover, etc. but it isn't a shooter. At all, period. If you don't like that, cool. Not a problem, personal opinions and all that but for those reviewers, getting mad at a game for not playing the way you want it to is simply stupid. "I hate Alpha Protocol/ME2/Fallout3 because it isn't Street Fighter and that is what I wanted/expected".

    When it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it's not unreasonable to expect it is a duck "with RPG elements".

    It's also not unreasonable to expect it to be an rpg simply standing on duck feet with a duck bill. essentially no review should be based on preconceived notions. Unfortunately that's not always the case even in the more academic world of writing, let alone game reviewing, which I guess a lot of people consider satan's armpit for journalism.
    I'd say that you are being way generous when you are describing it as Satans armpit.

    Silpheed on
  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Well, I just hit the Brayko fight.

    This 3rd person shooter just hit the fucking shitter. I'm amazed at the inability to hit what my gun is pointed at.

    Really glad I rented this crap.

    edit: And the only way I even beat him was because he glitched out on the stage and just stood there. Apparently my pistol and assault rifle do next to no damage to him on the second phase, despite them taking a huge chunk off on the first. Coupled with the general shitty inaccuracy, added onto the regenerating armor... yeah. This game pissed away what good will I had with it, and it's going to need to work like a dog to get it back.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah the boss fights in this game are incredibly annoying, but everything else about it is great (to me).

    urahonky on
  • -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Brayko especially, could have done with some redesign. I can't think of a way that that boss fight is not horrible, regardless of play style. It just seemed like it was designed for completely different game, a game that unfortunately you don't happen to be playing when you have to fight him.

    -SPI- on
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I didn't have to much trouble with Brayko. I just ran away until the cocaine wore off (I think that's what happened anyway).

    The guy I'm really having trouble with that makes me want to break the disc is in the last mission:
    How am I supposed to kill him?

    I can't hide in cover because of his grenades.
    I tried tossing my own grenades at him, but they didn't do any damage (yes I checked the arc).

    Is there something I'm missing?

    gjaustin on
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    gjaustin wrote: »
    I didn't have to much trouble with Brayko. I just ran away until the cocaine wore off (I think that's what happened anyway).

    The guy I'm really having trouble with that makes me want to break the disc is in the last mission:
    How am I supposed to kill him?

    I can't hide in cover because of his grenades.
    I tried tossing my own grenades at him, but they didn't do any damage (yes I checked the arc).

    Is there something I'm missing?

    There's a sniper rifle in the opposite tower that will kill him in a hit or two.

    PolloDiablo on
  • mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    If it weren't for A)The boss fights and B)Turrets, this would probably be one of favorite games of the past few years.

    But with those elements in there, it became one of the most frustrating games I ever forced myself through.

    The boss fights were such a terrible decision on their part.

    mynameisguido on
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  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Why would people expect this to play like a 3rd person shooter?

    Shouldn't they expect it to play similar to a stealth game? You can't exactly run and gun in Splinter Cell.

    Except the stealth is broken, too. In the large majority of missions there are forced alerts which completely ruin the fun of going undetected. And then the actual level design is based around using magic invisibility instead of actual stealth half the time. And when you have that magic invisibility a few ranks up it becomes god mode.

    This game is a blend of shooter, stealth, and rpg. The third aspect is the only one that isn't poorly designed. It's dishonest to ignore the flaws with the shooting and stealth gameplay and say "well it's an RPG you wouldn't expect Mass Effect to play like Street Fighter!" No, that excuse doesn't work. If Mass Effect had a lot of gameplay based around Street Fighter style fistfights, then the comparison would actually make sense. And guess what? If Mass Effect featured Street Fighter style combat, and did it poorly, it would get called out on it, too.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I've played through most of the missions in taipei and rome using stealth without using the invisible power, it's not that bad when you realize that the enemies are almost exactly like MGS, where their visual range is only in a direct cone in front of them, but they have a smaller circle where they can hear sounds.

    And I don't know, I actually found the gunplay funner than ME2's so, *shrug*

    Spoit on
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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    It got a lot more fun once I unlocked the pistol ability to shoot while still in cover. It feels almost broken to be headshotting people without ever putting myself in harms way.

    But then you get shit like Brayko. The only way I can ever hit with the pistol and do not retarded damage is to line up the crit shot, which is impossible when they're always moving. So I'm forced to use the assault rifle, and the only way to hit with that is to again wait for the crosshairs to narrow, and the only way to do that is to sit there with your head out of cover and get shot while doing so. Otherwise, good fucking luck hitting shit at even point blank range.

    It's like they got the whole crosshair aiming system completely backwards. Most games give you the narrow aim right off the bat, and lower it when you're moving. Here, you have the shit aim right at the start, and you have to stand there for way too bloody long before you get something that even approaches the ability to hit barns with broad sides.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Why would people expect this to play like a 3rd person shooter?

    Shouldn't they expect it to play similar to a stealth game? You can't exactly run and gun in Splinter Cell.

    Except the stealth is broken, too. In the large majority of missions there are forced alerts which completely ruin the fun of going undetected. And then the actual level design is based around using magic invisibility instead of actual stealth half the time. And when you have that magic invisibility a few ranks up it becomes god mode.

    This game is a blend of shooter, stealth, and rpg. The third aspect is the only one that isn't poorly designed. It's dishonest to ignore the flaws with the shooting and stealth gameplay and say "well it's an RPG you wouldn't expect Mass Effect to play like Street Fighter!" No, that excuse doesn't work. If Mass Effect had a lot of gameplay based around Street Fighter style fistfights, then the comparison would actually make sense. And guess what? If Mass Effect featured Street Fighter style combat, and did it poorly, it would get called out on it, too.

    Where did I use that excuse? If you didn't like the stealth gameplay, that's a perfectly fair criticism. I thought the stealth mechanics were great for most of the game. I didn't even have Shadow Operative for most of the game, and I was able to clear out the majority of rooms without being seen. I'd get seen when I made a mistake, but there were very few instances of BS.


    With the exception of Moscow and the endgame. Moscow was total BS, and I didn't even have any trouble with Brayko.

    I suppose the Omen fight was pretty awful too, and I want to murder someone since I didn't get the trophy for 3 undetected missions because apparently Heck being seen counts against me.


    Moscow and the endgame has moved me from "Why did this get such bad reviews - it's better than ME1" to "Apparently they finished Taipei and most of Rome, then ran out of time".

    gjaustin on
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    gjaustin wrote: »
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Why would people expect this to play like a 3rd person shooter?

    Shouldn't they expect it to play similar to a stealth game? You can't exactly run and gun in Splinter Cell.

    Except the stealth is broken, too. In the large majority of missions there are forced alerts which completely ruin the fun of going undetected. And then the actual level design is based around using magic invisibility instead of actual stealth half the time. And when you have that magic invisibility a few ranks up it becomes god mode.

    This game is a blend of shooter, stealth, and rpg. The third aspect is the only one that isn't poorly designed. It's dishonest to ignore the flaws with the shooting and stealth gameplay and say "well it's an RPG you wouldn't expect Mass Effect to play like Street Fighter!" No, that excuse doesn't work. If Mass Effect had a lot of gameplay based around Street Fighter style fistfights, then the comparison would actually make sense. And guess what? If Mass Effect featured Street Fighter style combat, and did it poorly, it would get called out on it, too.

    Where did I use that excuse?

    You didn't, someone else on the page did.

    LockedOnTarget on
  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    gjaustin wrote: »
    gjaustin wrote: »
    Why would people expect this to play like a 3rd person shooter?

    Shouldn't they expect it to play similar to a stealth game? You can't exactly run and gun in Splinter Cell.

    Except the stealth is broken, too. In the large majority of missions there are forced alerts which completely ruin the fun of going undetected. And then the actual level design is based around using magic invisibility instead of actual stealth half the time. And when you have that magic invisibility a few ranks up it becomes god mode.

    This game is a blend of shooter, stealth, and rpg. The third aspect is the only one that isn't poorly designed. It's dishonest to ignore the flaws with the shooting and stealth gameplay and say "well it's an RPG you wouldn't expect Mass Effect to play like Street Fighter!" No, that excuse doesn't work. If Mass Effect had a lot of gameplay based around Street Fighter style fistfights, then the comparison would actually make sense. And guess what? If Mass Effect featured Street Fighter style combat, and did it poorly, it would get called out on it, too.

    Where did I use that excuse?

    You didn't, someone else on the page did.

    Oh, my apologies.

    gjaustin on
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I finished this the first time the other day.

    As I neared the end I just wanted it to be over. Not because I didn't like the game, but because I didn't really understand the system the first time I played and I was unhappy with how things had turned out.

    Looking forward to starting anew as a veteran.

    Also SIE is the best one.

    Also, I had no grasp on the story and the double and triple crosses by the end of it all.

    Apothe0sis on
  • l337CrappyJackl337CrappyJack Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    I finished this the first time the other day.

    As I neared the end I just wanted it to be over. Not because I didn't like the game, but because I didn't really understand the system the first time I played and I was unhappy with how things had turned out.

    Looking forward to starting anew as a veteran.

    Also SIE is the best one.

    Also, I had no grasp on the story and the double and triple crosses by the end of it all.

    Trust me when I say it's very hard to be happy with how things turn out in this game. Bad stuff will happen to you that you didn't intend, which is why I love it.

    Also, yeah, the double and triple crosses are confusing, but that's also why I love it. There are entire plot threads you have no idea exist. It's beautiful.

    l337CrappyJack on
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Makes it all the sweeter when you do unravel it and get what I assume is the thorton inc achievment

    Spoit on
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  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Oh I was more unhappy because I didn't stick to anything and stoppe paying attention for a moment and accidentally executed someone, so I wasn't doing anything with appropriate commitment.

    Apothe0sis on
  • Tw4winTw4win Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Thinking of picking this up. Is it better on Xbox 360 or PC?

    Not trying to start a flamewar or anything, just want to know if there are any bugs, etc... on the PC version.

    Tw4win on
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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Most of the...peculiarities of the PC port can be fixed by just plugging in a 360 controller

    Spoit on
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  • Tw4winTw4win Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Spoit wrote: »
    Most of the...peculiarities of the PC port can be fixed by just plugging in a 360 controller

    Oddly enough I don't have a wired 360 controller...

    Tw4win on
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  • BiopticBioptic Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I played in on PC with a wired 360 controller, but it's by no means atrocious without - motion blur needs to be turned off sharpish though. I got the impression that bug levels were comparable between the 2 versions. Oh high settings the PC version actually looks quite pretty, and I hear the 360 version can be downright ropey at times. So it's the usual 'looks better, higher-res, better load times' on PC (if you have a moderately good setup), some potential control issues if you're keyboard-only, etc.

    Bioptic on
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I played on PC with the KBAM set-up. Everything works perfectly fine save for slight input lag when bringing up your abilities (not sure if that's KBAM vs controller specific or jsut how the game is) and what I feel is an interface design error where you can't quick cycle powers or ammos

    initiatefailure on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I played on PC with the KBAM set-up. Everything works perfectly fine save for slight input lag when bringing up your abilities (not sure if that's KBAM vs controller specific or jsut how the game is) and what I feel is an interface design error where you can't quick cycle powers or ammos

    Being able to assign them to hotkeys as in Mass Effect would've been nice.

    Other than that, no real complaints with just using KBAM.

    subedii on
  • StollsStolls Brave Corporate Logo Chicago, ILRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    About the only issue I had with KBAM was in hacking. The mouse was really sensitive and I had to be precise when clicking stuff, which is weird because it was fine for everything else. Other than that I had no problem with the controls.

    Stolls on
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  • gjaustingjaustin Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Just ran through this again refusing to use the Professional stance.

    I also played it like a ME2 Vanguard, using Veteran on Hard. I had a lot of fun rushing the enemies and making them eat shotgun.

    I also ended up beating just about every boss in melee combat, thanks to Fury, Toughness, and some Epinephrine :)

    gjaustin on
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Tw4win wrote: »
    Spoit wrote: »
    Most of the...peculiarities of the PC port can be fixed by just plugging in a 360 controller

    Oddly enough I don't have a wired 360 controller...

    You should fix this. It's an overall useful thing to have, some things run better on PC but play better with a gamepad.

    Fiaryn on
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  • vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    I would kill for a decent solution as to how to play a KBM PC game while sitting on my couch. I tried a gamepad once, and it didn't really work for me as a solution.

    Playing this game made me reinstall Deus Ex. Playing Deus Ex made me realize how much I wanted to play V:TM:B again. This is a terrible, terrible cycle. What will come next?

    vsove on
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  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    vsove wrote: »
    I would kill for a decent solution as to how to play a KBM PC game while sitting on my couch. I tried a gamepad once, and it didn't really work for me as a solution.

    Playing this game made me reinstall Deus Ex. Playing Deus Ex made me realize how much I wanted to play V:TM:B again. This is a terrible, terrible cycle. What will come next?

    Traditionally, Arcanum.

    Although personally I never really understood that game.

    subedii on
  • C2BC2B SwitzerlandRegistered User regular
    edited August 2010
    vsove wrote: »
    I would kill for a decent solution as to how to play a KBM PC game while sitting on my couch. I tried a gamepad once, and it didn't really work for me as a solution.

    Playing this game made me reinstall Deus Ex. Playing Deus Ex made me realize how much I wanted to play V:TM:B again. This is a terrible, terrible cycle. What will come next?

    Fallout 3 or Mass Effect. Well,......

    No wait, System Shock 2. :mrgreen:

    C2B on
  • NartwakNartwak Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    C2B wrote: »
    Fallout 3 or Mass Effect.

    ha ha ha ah :lol:

    Nartwak on
  • SilpheedSilpheed Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Arcanum or System Shock 2 are two excellent games to follow up with, as other posters have stated earlier.

    Silpheed on
  • l337CrappyJackl337CrappyJack Registered User regular
    edited August 2010
    Yeah, the saddest thing about these kinds of games is when you realize you can count all the really good CRPGs on your fingers.

    l337CrappyJack on
This discussion has been closed.