MMA X: Captain Guillotine: Fear the man who has practiced one choke 10,000 times

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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wow, Genki speaks english very well. I'm a bit surprised. I also hate watching Christiane "MAN FACE CYBORG" Santos beat the shit out of women. Call me sexist, I don't give a shit. It's goddamn uncomfortable.

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  • doug_grammardoug_grammar Registered User
    edited September 2010
    No no, I don't know why people think it's sexist to not like seeing women beat up. You just don't like seeing ladies getting hurt. Not rare.

    It's just that violence involving vaginas isn't new. Get used to the idea. No need to get used to the deal.

    doug_grammar on
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wow, Genki speaks english very well. I'm a bit surprised. I also hate watching Christiane "MAN FACE CYBORG" Santos beat the shit out of women. Call me sexist, I don't give a shit. It's goddamn uncomfortable.

    Not wanting to see women get beat on might not be sexist, but the "MAN FACE CYBORG" bit is a little unnecessary IMO

    Yougottawanna on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wow, Genki speaks english very well. I'm a bit surprised. I also hate watching Christiane "MAN FACE CYBORG" Santos beat the shit out of women. Call me sexist, I don't give a shit. It's goddamn uncomfortable.

    Not wanting to see women get beat on might not be sexist, but the "MAN FACE CYBORG" bit is a little unnecessary IMO

    She kind of has a man face. I don't know where you're going with this. She has a face, and it resembles a man's face.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • doug_grammardoug_grammar Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Well, this isn't exactly Miss Beauty Pageant. No one's stopping you from checking out the women, but what do you honestly expect?

    doug_grammar on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Look, guys... I'm not saying Christiane "Cyborg" Santos is ugly (she is), I'm saying she looks like a man. That's not sexist. She looks like a fucking dude. Jesus christ.

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  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    My god, even the way Paris Hilton punches a heavy bag is cutesy and irritating.

    I heard that DREAM news, my reaction is noooooooooooo

    I hope they pull through. There's rumors that there are fighters from recent DREAM events that are still owed money, though I can't find anything firsthand about that.

    They haven't paid a number of fairly big-name guys. I posted about it in the last thread.
    BubbaT wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    I just saw on InsideMMA that Impact FC hasn't been able to pay its fighters from the events 3 weeks ago..

    FEG's worse.
    TATAME called Dream featherweight champion Bibiano Fernandes this morning to know more about his return to the rings, but was surprised by an unbelievable answer. “Dream called me two days ago to offer me a fight at September 21, but I said I won’t fight until they pay me for my last fight (against Joachim Hansen)”, Bibiano told TATAME, revealing that he hasn’t been paid yet for the fight, which took place five months ago in Japan. “I have family, I have a wife and I can’t work without getting paid. I’ll only fight against when they pay me for my last fight”.
    http://www.tatame.com/2010/08/16/Dream-hasnt-paid-Bibiano-after-5-months
    TATAME confirms that Ronaldo “Jacare” Souza still hasn't been paid for his May 2009 DREAM 9 fight with Jason "Mayhem" Miller
    http://www.cagepotato.com/dream-featherweight-champ-bibiano-fernandes-turns-down-september-title-defense-until-promotion-pays-
    It's a little more than eight months since MMA veteran Gary Goodridge fought Gegard Mousasi at FEG's Dynamite!! 2009 New Year's Eve show in Japan. Eight months, and still he hasn't seen a single penny of the money he's owed for that bout, Goodridge told MMA Fighting earlier Wednesday.
    http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/08/11/gary-goodridge-says-he-still-hasnt-been-paid-for-new-years-eve/
    There have been rumors all summer that Diaz would face "Mach" Sakurai for the DREAM welterweight title during his next trip out there, but Diaz had problems getting paid for his last fight with the promotion against Katsuya Inoue at DREAM 3 on May 11.

    He was reportedly owed $100,000 by the Japanese mixed martial arts promotion for the first round technical knockout win over Inoue. He is now clearly skeptical about doing business with them again.

    Here's a report posted on GracieFighter.com dating back to August 1:
    "Diaz could be cleared to fight Mach Sakurai in Dream at the end of September. Diaz has wanted to fight Sakurai for the Dream Champioship Belt, but a stumbling block to this fight has been that as of now Dream has still not paid him a cent for the last fight he participated in for their organization almost 3 months ago."

    Obviously the "Mach" fight didn't happen in September, but isn't completely out of the question for a future DREAM event now that they finally coughed up the money ... even if it was five months late.
    http://www.mmamania.com/2008/10/15/nick-diaz-gets-paid-by-dream-and-agrees-to-fight-in-japan/

    BubbaT on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think Mayhem said Dream still owed him money when he was last on the Joe Rogan podcast.

    815165 on
  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Spectrum wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    the last two events were painful

    Oh come on, guys get brutalized all the time by others much better than them, and we love that.
    At least these events have some vague semblance of competitiveness.

    Cyborg's matches? Nope.

    That's not really true. Just in the last UFC event we had Lauzon utterly destroying a guy. It wasn't even remotely competitive and everyone loved it.

    Personally I have no problem watching Cyborg beat the shit out of her opponents. At the end of the day, all women involved made a choice to step into the ring and throw fists at eachother, and I am totally okay with it.

    Neli on
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  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Look, guys... I'm not saying Christiane "Cyborg" Santos is ugly (she is), I'm saying she looks like a man. That's not sexist. She looks like a fucking dude. Jesus christ.

    Yeah I don't know why anyone is complaining about WGHM said, he stated his opinion. If we said that Mickey Rourke looked like he lost a battle with a sandpaper monster would anyone care? I would imagine not (Because that is a hilarious visual). Stating your personal preference for attractiveness, while maybe not needed in the thread, isn't akin to sexism.

    Metal Jared on
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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Mickey Rourke looked like he lost a battle with a sandpaper monster

    :lol:

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • doug_grammardoug_grammar Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Look, guys... I'm not saying Christiane "Cyborg" Santos is ugly (she is), I'm saying she looks like a man. That's not sexist. She looks like a fucking dude. Jesus christ.

    You keep pulling out that word alot. Nobody here was implying in any way what you said was sexist.
    Quinton "Rampage" Jackson has recently joined the Huntington Beach Training Center which is host to also Tiki Ghosn, “Razor” Rob McCullough, Team Punishment, and Ricco Rodriguez.
    Well, this group certainly is no Black House, but it seems alot better for Rampage than Wolfslair. Hopefully, it'll be enough against Lyoto Machida soon.

    doug_grammar on
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Just wanted to say great OP. Except for the ginormous font size. Also, the color. Other than that, great OP.

    Also, I think we can all agree that for most people, Cyborg is an unattractive woman. She's also a pretty damn good fighter. It's just too bad that she's in a 3-person weight class...

    Inquisitor77 on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Look, guys... I'm not saying Christiane "Cyborg" Santos is ugly (she is), I'm saying she looks like a man. That's not sexist. She looks like a fucking dude. Jesus christ.

    You keep pulling out that word alot. Nobody here was implying in any way what you said was sexist.

    You are correct, sir. I probably misunderstood yougottawanna's post.
    Not wanting to see women get beat on might not be sexist, but the "MAN FACE CYBORG" bit is a little unnecessary IMO

    Also I was slightly inebriated last night.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Look, guys... I'm not saying Christiane "Cyborg" Santos is ugly (she is), I'm saying she looks like a man. That's not sexist. She looks like a fucking dude. Jesus christ.

    You keep pulling out that word alot. Nobody here was implying in any way what you said was sexist.

    You are correct, sir. I probably misunderstood yougottawanna's post.
    Not wanting to see women get beat on might not be sexist, but the "MAN FACE CYBORG" bit is a little unnecessary IMO

    Also I was slightly inebriated last night.

    MayGodHaveMercy
    Default State: Drunk

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  • fmz65fmz65 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    When's the Rampage fight set for?

    fmz65 on
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  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    fmz65 wrote: »
    When's the Rampage fight set for?

    last I checked, UFC 123 in November

    Neli on
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  • doug_grammardoug_grammar Registered User
    edited September 2010
    I wonder how much Lyoto has changed. Not much news about him other than he started training with Black House a while back.

    Obviously, the man has been working on his wrestling, but that won't come into play until after Rampage stands with him first.

    I wonder how much Rampage has changed too. I want to see the Jackson that buried Wanderlei Silva back when he was a LHW.

    doug_grammar on
  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    Wet Bandit on
  • DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    No no, I don't know why people think it's sexist to not like seeing women beat up. You just don't like seeing ladies getting hurt. Not rare.

    It's just that violence involving vaginas isn't new. Get used to the idea. No need to get used to the deal.

    I think the difference, particularly in this case, was that in most male one-sided fights, the fights *end* appropriately. In Cyborg vs. the blonde punching bag, the fight *should've* ended a long long time before it did, but apparently the ref had something against the blonde. The one-sided fighting just drug on for much longer than it should have and I think that's what made it so uncomfortable.

    In the previous fight of hers I saw against Gina, it wasn't that bad, at least it was over in a round. I didn't realize she'd fought someone in between there.

    Dranyth on
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    Peen on
  • Metal JaredMetal Jared Mulligan Wizard Rhode IslandRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Just wanted to say great OP. Except for the ginormous font size. Also, the color. Other than that, great OP.

    Also, I think we can all agree that for most people, Cyborg is an unattractive woman. She's also a pretty damn good fighter. It's just too bad that she's in a 3-person weight class...

    Thanks for the compliment. Be thankful for the color, it used to be Lime green (To match the formatting of PAFC). As for the size, I felt that if you're going to have a ton of stuff to read, it would be better if it wasn't in microfont.

    Edit:
    Peen wrote:
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    I think the point of stats being important is due to the fact that they are very prevalent in the other major sports major sports. There is even a convention that discusses sports statistics. If the UFC can have consistent stats that people can discuss and dissect it will be helpful for new fans to understand things about new fighters, and even how great current fighters are.

    I'll be honest, I don't know alot about people who fight in UFC/WEC undercards. However, if I was able to see some comprehensive statistical analysis I would have a better idea of what a given fighter is about. If I see he has a very high striking percentage and high number of strike attempts I may feel he has a good matchup with a fighter who has a very low strike evasion percentage. I like to have some idea what's going to happen in a fight. I like to be able to look for specific things from each fighter. But it's very hard to do so when your only option is to read biased commentary and watch fight videos (not to mention time consuming)

    If I could spend a few minutes looking at their stats I feel I would have a better understanding of what a fighter wants to do in their fight and be more apt to be invested in that fighter fighting. Like if I really like fighters who throw leg kicks, or attempt kimura's, and I see that there is a fighter who does both of those things, I may be more apt to want to see him fight.

    I love statistics, I love number, the more information you give me, the happier I am. I know that it will all come out in the cage but having some insight beforehand breeds more intelligent fans which is good for everyone.

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  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    If it becomes like compustrike, I'm going to be pissed. It's the most annoying part of StrikeForce broadcasts for me and really turns me off of wanting to watch them.

    adytum on
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  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    In most sports they give you something to put on the screen during stoppages in play. MMA doesn't really have any in-round stoppages, though. Still, it can be useful for looking at stats between rounds, they way it's used in boxing. One of the nice things about stats is they count the 1st minute as much as the last minute, whereas with memory there's a natural tendency to over-value what you saw in the last minute of the round.

    BubbaT on
  • midgetspymidgetspy Registered User
    edited September 2010
    adytum wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    If it becomes like compustrike, I'm going to be pissed. It's the most annoying part of StrikeForce broadcasts for me and really turns me off of wanting to watch them.

    Yeah the Compustrike stuff in StrikeForce is maddening... they just spew out numbers that have really no bearing on the fight without some analysis.

    midgetspy on
  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/09/fightmetric-now-official-statistics.html

    FightMetric is going to be providing statistics for the UFC. And they've apparently got quite the database of statistics. If you go to sportsnet.ca, you can see some interesting stats there provided by FightMetric. Here's GSP's bio:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/fighters/Georges_St._Pierre/

    Comparing that to Fitch's, GSP lands 50% more strikes, 33% more takedowns, and attempts 100% more submissions. And fortunately for Fitch, there's no easy comparison in terms of ground passes. But real quick and easy, GSP passed Hardy 26 times. In Fitch's last five decisions, he's made a total of 16 passes combined. That's about half the number of passes in three times the cage time.

    I hope the UFC really leverages this sort of stuff for their broadcasts.

    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    In most sports they give you something to put on the screen during stoppages in play. MMA doesn't really have any in-round stoppages, though. Still, it can be useful for looking at stats between rounds, they way it's used in boxing. One of the nice things about stats is they count the 1st minute as much as the last minute, whereas with memory there's a natural tendency to over-value what you saw in the last minute of the round.

    I was okay with this at first, but then I watched that last Strikeforce where the guy who lost says "Well, I should have won. Look at the numbers! They show that I'm better!" (Paraphrased)

    The dude landed, I think, 7 more strikes total, and a large portion of them were leg kicks that had no noticeable effect on the opponent. He didn't win at all, regardless of what the stupid numbers say.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Marcus Davis tried the same thing after Hardy beat him, "look at the numbers!" but the judges looked at their faces, Davis looked like he had been raped by a bear, Dan looked like he was modelling for Gillette. Damage > Control imho.

    Davis also went on to say he hates LnP but that is exactly what he tried with Dan after getting rocked a few times.

    Venkman90 on
  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    Wet Bandit on
  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    Also it is interesting when it's a fairly close fight and one guy bursts at the end. The tendency is to go, "Oh, that guy burst'd at the end, he wins," but then you see the stats, and the other guy out-hit him each round. Gives perspective.

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  • MayGodHaveMercyMayGodHaveMercy Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    So it doesn't need to be part of the broadcast.

    MayGodHaveMercy on
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  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    So it doesn't need to be part of the broadcast.

    Why?

    Wet Bandit on
  • PeenPeen tw1tch0rz occasionallyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    So it doesn't need to be part of the broadcast.

    Yeah, this here. Numbers are important in other sports because they provide a meaningful context for a player or team's performance. If I don't know a guy on a baseball team but I see that he's batting .233, that tells me with reasonable accuracy that he's not good at batting. I've not seen a statistic that really tells me more about a fighter's performance aside from his win/loss record; I'm not trying to end the debate, I'm just saying what I think.

    As to it helping you analyze a whole fight, if you can't remember what happened ten minutes ago then you might want to work on some kind of brain exercises.

    Wet I get that you like them for fights you haven't seen but again can you really break a fight down into numbers in a meaningful way?

    Peen on
  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Statistics provide a tool for combating bias or inaccuracies in how you remember a fight. It's not that you entirely forget what happened ten minutes ago, but you might not remember it in detail. Would you remember the exact number of strikes? People's memories are imperfect, especially when remembering a complex set of events many of which happened simultaneously. Without specifics, the gaps in memory are often filled in by bias or by the expected outcome. This is a well-established principle in refereeing for instance: research shows the most common referee bias is towards the team they think is supposed to win, and referees (when questioned afterwards about certain plays) demonstrate this bias through their recollections.

    The most common arguments I see against using statistics (across all sports) is that they can be misinterpreted. But IMO the only thing that's more consistently misinterpreted than statistics is a lack of them. One recent fight whose analysis would have benefited (IMO) from some immediately available numbers was Shogun/Machida I.

    Yougottawanna on
  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet I get that you like them for fights you haven't seen but again can you really break a fight down into numbers in a meaningful way?

    Of course you can.

    Let's say someone didn't see GSP/Hardy. How do they know what happened? If they look at Sherdog, they'll see that GSP won a unanimous decision. Okay, that's obviously important, but that doesn't really tell the story of the fight.

    Maybe they look on Wikipedia and see the judges' scores. That will tell that person that the fight was one-sided, but it does nothing to help them understand how GSP won. Did he stand and trade? Did he ground and pound? Did he work for submissions? How much resistance did he face? That is all unanswered.

    Now let's look at FightMetric's report.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/mma/events/UFC_111__St._Pierre_vs._Hardy/St._Pierre_vs_Hardy/

    Strike totals were low from both fighters, so there probably wasn't much action on the feet. GSP went 11 for 11 on takedowns, so that was obviously his gameplan and the source of his effectiveness. He landed relatively few strikes, though, so he didn't focus on ground-and-pound the way he did against BJ. But his 26 passes and six submission attempts tells us that his focus was on passing into a dominant position and getting a sub.

    So yeah, you can use numbers to break a fight down in a meaningful way.

    Wet Bandit on
  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I really dislike that they score the fights by rounds, hearing corners shout, "steal the round!" with thirty seconds to go really annoys me.

    edit: six sub attempts seems low for GSP/Hardy but I'm going solely off memory here. just over one attempt every five minutes isn't a lot considering the positional dominance GSP had

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  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Peen wrote: »
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    Peen wrote: »
    I've got to admit, I don't understand the fascination with these kinds of stats. Does it really tell you anything that you can't see yourself watching the fight?

    You're looking at this very wrong. I don't like these stats because they tell me what I'm watching, I like the stats because they tell me about fights I missed or fights I forgot about. I don't remember how many times Jon Fitch passed Mike Pierce, but I can look it up real quick.

    So it doesn't need to be part of the broadcast.

    Yeah, this here. Numbers are important in other sports because they provide a meaningful context for a player or team's performance. If I don't know a guy on a baseball team but I see that he's batting .233, that tells me with reasonable accuracy that he's not good at batting. I've not seen a statistic that really tells me more about a fighter's performance aside from his win/loss record; I'm not trying to end the debate, I'm just saying what I think.

    As to it helping you analyze a whole fight, if you can't remember what happened ten minutes ago then you might want to work on some kind of brain exercises.

    Wet I get that you like them for fights you haven't seen but again can you really break a fight down into numbers in a meaningful way?

    You seriously think no one goes, "Oh man, he TOTALLY won the fight in round three!" and forgets that the other two rounds were pretty obviously in the other guy's favor, but not by a huge margin? Why would you be against meaningful stats in any sport?

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  • Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    edit: six sub attempts seems low for GSP/Hardy but I'm going solely off memory here. just over one attempt every five minutes isn't a lot considering the positional dominance GSP had

    It is when you factor in FightMetric's threshold for counting a submission attempt. It's gotta be a pretty serious attempt for them to count it.

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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Why would you be against meaningful stats in any sport?
    I don't think anyone is against meaningful stats, but there are some sports where it is very hard to apply statistics in a meaningful way.

    How many takedowns is a knockdown worth? Is a jab better than a teep?

    I think stats in MMA are a good way of saying who did what more, but not a way of saying who did what better.

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  • sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Wet Bandit wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    edit: six sub attempts seems low for GSP/Hardy but I'm going solely off memory here. just over one attempt every five minutes isn't a lot considering the positional dominance GSP had

    It is when you factor in FightMetric's threshold for counting a submission attempt. It's gotta be a pretty serious attempt for them to count it.

    And do they count "chaining" sub attempts together as one? Or is each serious attempt from the same mount or whatever different? Think RNC - Armbar - Americana or something goofy like that.

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  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    815165 wrote: »
    How many takedowns is a knockdown worth? Is a jab better than a teep?

    40 rods to the hogshead, obviously.

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