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Nick, Spongebob, Viacom, Cartoons, Violence and Political Correctness
Cantido
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I was enjoying dinner at Kobe's with my family and mom's friend's family, and I overhear something. My mom's friend was telling her daughter that they were going to have to cut down on time watching Spongebob. She claimed that Nick "getting worse," that watching TV all the time was not good (fair enough) and that it wasn't as bad as when I and my siblings watched Nickelodeon. That we watched harmless stuff like Pokemon.
That emoticon was short for my kneejerk reaction of "this is No Country for Old Men Syndrome" (that she's putting the past in rose-colored vision when the opposite is true) So I tell her some stories. I'm 26 now, and when Nickelodeon was my thing, I was watching reruns of Loony Tunes. I've seen them all. There's probably not a single one I haven't seen. And if you look back at those old cartoons (some dating during WW2), they were a lot more violent in relation to what you see now. Various characters getting shot in the face or crushed with anvils. Spongebob doesn't have a singe gun.
And of course, plenty of racism too. Back then I wouldn't have batted an eye or recognized it as racism. Now I see an old episode with my ROTC buddies where Bugs Bunny is in the Pacific being chased by buck-toothed Japanese, and I go "wow, I can't believe I watched this stuff."
Then there's Pokemon. I introduced the concept of what an anime is to her, and tell her that Pokemon was a Japanese cartoon that is brought to America after some serious gutting and cutting to make sure everything is nice and politically correct. Pokemon is not the best example. Sailor Moon however, is. My sister got a DVD box set with every episode (she must have some cool friends.) And the real deal is terrifyingly violent sometimes. There's also the hilarious stuff like gay-couple Zoecite and Malechite changing the more feminine villian to a female in America (standard localization operating procedure!) Then there's One Piece but I'm not familiar with that franchise.
She's a MAN in JAPAN, BABY!
I also give her this heads up: she's not entirely wrong about Nickelodeon being worse in certain ways. Back then, Viacom had their hooks in Nickelodeon. Viacom as in MTV. Mom didn't let me watch that channel for obvious reasons. And to this day I don't watch it for reasons that are obvious to you and me: that shit fucking sucks. I'd probably have an anneurism if I watched it for more than five minutes.
But around the time Spongebob was exploding in popularity, we were all crying out because Invader Zim was getting canceled, I was making my own money to get video games, my television watching days came to a grinding halt. I noticed that in afternoon events on Nickelodeon, you had Carson Daily talking in between shows on Nick, talking about the usual Top 40 artists, and I was thinking to myself "what the hell, Viacom." The channel was prepping these kids to make a switch to MTV. I wasn't a part of that, but my little brother and sister were. They can watch whatever they want at this point. Why my sister finds that sludge compelling to this day, I'll never know.
But I haven't watched daytime children viewing in a long time, and I told her I'd research and ask more because this got me curious. What is the state of children's television these days and what can she do more as a parent? Watch these shows individually and figure out what's good or not?
I think I'll rent some Spongebob DVDs. I need to get caught up.
That emoticon was short for my kneejerk reaction of "this is No Country for Old Men Syndrome" (that she's putting the past in rose-colored vision when the opposite is true) So I tell her some stories. I'm 26 now, and when Nickelodeon was my thing, I was watching reruns of Loony Tunes. I've seen them all. There's probably not a single one I haven't seen. And if you look back at those old cartoons (some dating during WW2), they were a lot more violent in relation to what you see now. Various characters getting shot in the face or crushed with anvils. Spongebob doesn't have a singe gun.
And of course, plenty of racism too. Back then I wouldn't have batted an eye or recognized it as racism. Now I see an old episode with my ROTC buddies where Bugs Bunny is in the Pacific being chased by buck-toothed Japanese, and I go "wow, I can't believe I watched this stuff."
Then there's Pokemon. I introduced the concept of what an anime is to her, and tell her that Pokemon was a Japanese cartoon that is brought to America after some serious gutting and cutting to make sure everything is nice and politically correct. Pokemon is not the best example. Sailor Moon however, is. My sister got a DVD box set with every episode (she must have some cool friends.) And the real deal is terrifyingly violent sometimes. There's also the hilarious stuff like gay-couple Zoecite and Malechite changing the more feminine villian to a female in America (standard localization operating procedure!) Then there's One Piece but I'm not familiar with that franchise.
She's a MAN in JAPAN, BABY!
I also give her this heads up: she's not entirely wrong about Nickelodeon being worse in certain ways. Back then, Viacom had their hooks in Nickelodeon. Viacom as in MTV. Mom didn't let me watch that channel for obvious reasons. And to this day I don't watch it for reasons that are obvious to you and me: that shit fucking sucks. I'd probably have an anneurism if I watched it for more than five minutes.
But around the time Spongebob was exploding in popularity, we were all crying out because Invader Zim was getting canceled, I was making my own money to get video games, my television watching days came to a grinding halt. I noticed that in afternoon events on Nickelodeon, you had Carson Daily talking in between shows on Nick, talking about the usual Top 40 artists, and I was thinking to myself "what the hell, Viacom." The channel was prepping these kids to make a switch to MTV. I wasn't a part of that, but my little brother and sister were. They can watch whatever they want at this point. Why my sister finds that sludge compelling to this day, I'll never know.
But I haven't watched daytime children viewing in a long time, and I told her I'd research and ask more because this got me curious. What is the state of children's television these days and what can she do more as a parent? Watch these shows individually and figure out what's good or not?
I think I'll rent some Spongebob DVDs. I need to get caught up.
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I TOLD YOU ID SHOOT BUT YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE ME!
I mean, okay Avatar is kinda violent, but I've seen worse Don Bluth films.
MTV in the 90's (pre TRL and reality TV) was top notch
they also had such excellent cartoons as beavis and butthead, aeon flux, and daria
1970s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipuq-nCqfCU
2000s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2BvSqqmidM
Which is made even more funny because nunchucks and ninjas were considered too violent for the UK, so all references to ninja were cut out and all scenes of Michaelangelo fighting with nunchucks were deleted.
Swords were around for a long time before that though, but usually as tools to shoot beams or the like, ala He-Man.
Man, imagine all the people who died in those collapsed buildings.
That's the Animation Age Ghetto. Check out that picture of the kid and see what he's holding :winky:
What are you doing, He-Man? Stab Skeletor!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eOu16x69Pw
EDIT: WHAT?!? He doesn't even stab the chewing gum monster?
Mitsurugi is a whitey in England.
Not that there wasn't questionable stuff in relatively older cartoons. I mean Rocko's Modern life had a sex phone operator, a pay by the hour motel, Heifer getting 'milked' by a machine, Rocko grabbing a bears testicles, Rocko getting a hernia (shown) and prostate exam (implied), etc.
So I guess, it's just eye of the beholder type of stuff.
By the way, is Rocko airing in syndication anywhere? Because that was an excellent show.
Also, Pokemon gets strange edits when coming to America. Like riceballs being called donuts.
Rocko's Modern Life is on Netflix instant, just FYI.
And here I am on dialup, dagnabbit. But this is still useful information!
This sort of thing is what happens when something aimed at adults gets repackaged for children.
It's also on Nicktoons around midnight almost every day.
No clue where you're seeing them Warner Brothers has them vaulted probably filled it with cement too.
There's a few that slipped through the cracks and aired in the late 80's early 90's which I have seen( I'm 27)
Notably Bugs in Black face. And tormenting a very stereotypical native american.
Also anything with Speedy Gonzales despite tons of Hispanic right groups insisting he's a positive role model
And I don't think I've seen any Bugs war toons. Closest I can remember is the imp or whatever that was sabotaging a plane he was on.
The really overtly racist Loony Toons aren't aired on television for obvious reasons. I'm not even sure they're available on DVD.
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What I love about this is that in Soul Calibur 3 they brought Arthur back as a bonus character as well as keeping Mitsurugi.
I know I've seen some of the WWII Bugs Bunny toons up on Youtube.
Don't know if they're all there though.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Bugs+Bunny+WWII
Man, what the fuck were the writers on? "I'll make an unbreakable cage!" "I'll break it." "So, you LIKE TO PLAY GAMES, DO YOU?"
Just... what the fuck was wrong with them?
I used to have some old tapes that had a Bugs cartoon with a hilariously racist black guy, big lips, floppy feet, the whole bit.
As to the OP's question, it's entirely up to her to watch the shows and decide if they're appropriate for her kids or not, it's an incredibly subjective issue.
I swear UP AND DOWN Looney Tunes was on Nick in the evenings in the 90's, and all the fucking time on Cartoon Network.
Now here's something I NEVER saw back then!
I remembered loving Thundarr the Barbarian, so I watched an episode about a year ago now. In it, the villain was prophesied to be defeated thanks to the efforts of three women. Two of these women were from the distant past (1994), and the heroes had no access to time travel.
The villain, being an all-powerful wizard, took the most sensible route to ensuring that the heroes never contacted these women and fulfilled the prophecy. By that I mean he went back in time, captured these women, and brought them back to the show's present so he could incarcerate them in his dungeon (oh, and one of these women escaped and somehow gained wings and the ability to fly after the wizard accidently blasted his own crystal ball while trying to shoot her).
When the flying woman contacted the heroes, the group decided to disguise themselves and sneak into the wizard's castle. One of the wizard's guards recognized the heroes and asked his boss what to do. Obviously, the wizard decided to let the heroes think they were undetected and allowed them entrance to his castle so he could set a trap (a trap that fails spectacularly).
So, basically, the villain did everything possible to ensure his own downfall.
You know how old cartoons often feature a character getting blasted in the face with dynamite? Well, I've since discovered that a lot of those cartoons have edited out the fact that the explosions turn the characters into blackface characters.
The most outright racist example I've seen is an old Droopy Dog cartoon in which a villain tries to return a lost possession to a rich businessman, not knowing that the possession is filled with dynamite.
Businessman:"Oh, thank you my good man. This deserves a cash reward. Let's see...one hundred, two hundred, three hundred, four hundred..."
*dynamite explodes, tattering the businessman's clothing, charring his skin black, and somehow making his lips huge and bright red*
Blackface Businessman: "...five hunnert, sixty hunnert, thirty-fo', eleventy billion..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN-T_WRs7eo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4VySRGoJTY
"3 energy blasts, Two monsters, four chaos orbs, and a magic cage failed to stop you, He-Man. But how about this snake?"
"ohhh shiiiiiit"
What? Squidward is the campy one!
Parents, man. Being happy too much is gay now.
Also yes Rocko, Ren and Stimpy, old grossout cartoons you barely see any more except maybe in the shape of Flapjack.
Oh yeah Johny Test alludes to dogs humping in one episode. "Dogs show dominance too Johny, except we don't fight, we just kind of hop on each other!"
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Celebrate Christmas with comic books! :winky:
Also, I'm fairly sure that Darkwing Duck got canned because it was too violent. Boo to that, I say. It was one of the best cartoons on television and I seriously doubt that seeing Darkwing drop an anvil on a villain will inspire kids to do the same.
One of the things I've noticed about Nick, though, is that, aside from Spongebob, they've really kind of abandoned cartoons in favor of more live-action pre-teen junk like iCarly. The content in those is mostly harmless, but I am seeing a lot more liberal usage of words like 'suck' or coming up with stuff like "what the chizz." One time on iCarly I heard them make a joke about a boob job, where they actually said something along the lines of "My aunt's boobs look realer than those."
The worst thing you can say about Spongebob? He...has an upside down penis for a face I guess?
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Ha, we're all turning into old fogeys. "Back in my day, cartoon characters didn't sass each other with crude language ..."
I remember one where he's SuperBugs by eating magic carrots but he loses his carrots and the bad guys eat them so to get out of trouble he enlists and goes to war.
That one probably still gets played because not much in the way of any racism in it.
He's pretty much life partners with Patrick.
Dude. How can you not remember this?
Goddamn gremlins!