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Intel wants you to pay to unlock your processor's true capabilities.

The DeliveratorThe Deliverator Slingin PiesThe California BurbclavesRegistered User regular
I just read an Engadget article about Intel selling "upgrade codes" for their lower end processors in some pre-assembled systems. Hyperthreading and L3 cache come disabled, and the code lets you download software to enable it. I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this is full on pants-on-head retarded. It's getting kind old how corporations are trying to convince us that we don't own anything, we just buy a license to use it. If I buy a physical item I should be able to use it however i want and to it's full abilities, not this piecemeal ELUA ultra limited rights crap they're trying to feed us.

The Deliverator on
«13

Posts

  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'm sort of interested how they managed to lock it off like that.

    But to be honest when the pricing so clearly has nothing to do with the costs involved we're seeing some serious bullshit. This is actually worse than MS' strategy of "pay three hundred plus bucks or we're giving you the version with the features removed", and I never thought it possible.

    Falken on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Haven't they always done this to some extent? Like locking the multiplier on all but the most expensive "enthusiast" tagged processors?

    japan on
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    From what I recall, the cheaper processors were essentially just the rejected processors that couldn't meet the QA requirements of the faster ones, so they just locked out some of the higher end features (which could be renabled through fiddling with the BIOS, although it might not be stable). This seems different in that they're actually manufacturing it with the ability to unlock those features in a supported manner.

    I'd be interested to see how they're implementing it too, since it seems like they're letting you activate the higher end bits through software - that seems like it's just asking for people to hack together a free solution.

    Ayulin on
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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    japan wrote: »
    Haven't they always done this to some extent? Like locking the multiplier on all but the most expensive "enthusiast" tagged processors?

    No cause those are made for that purpose.

    Thing of this as hardware DLC.

    Buttcleft on
  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ayulin wrote: »
    From what I recall, the cheaper processors were essentially just the rejected processors that couldn't meet the QA requirements of the faster ones, so they just locked out some of the higher end features (which could be renabled through fiddling with the BIOS, although it might not be stable).

    Exactly this. Your pentium dual core? It's a Core 2 Duo with broken cache. They go "hey, everything else works, so just slap a cheaper price on it and we can get the manufacturing costs back!". That way they arn't wasting hundreds of thousands of usable chips because they don't fit all the specifications.

    Falken on
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Since they're doing this with low end hardware, the best part is the group of people who understand that this is complete bullshit is the exact opposite of the group of people who are going to be buying it.

    SmokeStacks on
  • Rigor MortisRigor Mortis Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Seriously?

    If I wasn't already an AMD loyalist, I would switch right now. Hope AMD doesn't follow suit because the last option would be VIA...

    .....shudder

    Rigor Mortis on
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    If this spreads to higher end CPUs it might actually be kind of nice - buy a cheap CPU, take it home, download an illegal crack to unlock it's full potential, and oh my god we're living in a William Gibson novel.

    SmokeStacks on
  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Seriously?

    If I wasn't already an AMD loyalist, I would switch right now. Hope AMD doesn't follow suit because the last option would be VIA...

    .....shudder

    you mean you wouldn't use this oppertunity to switch to god's own arch, 68k? heh.

    Falken on
  • TeaSpoonTeaSpoon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    If this spreads to higher end CPUs it might actually be kind of nice - buy a cheap CPU, take it home, download an illegal crack to unlock it's full potential, and oh my god we're living in a William Gibson novel.

    Would the crack be illegal or even unethical?

    This is not the same situation as software piracy. You cannot download hardware. In this case, you download software that changes the BIOS (or whatever) of something you paid money for, making it do more than the creators intended. Nothing is stolen and no intellectual rights are violated.

    TeaSpoon on
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    If this spreads to higher end CPUs it might actually be kind of nice - buy a cheap CPU, take it home, download an illegal crack to unlock it's full potential, and oh my god we're living in a William Gibson novel.

    Would the crack be illegal or even unethical?

    This is not the same situation as software piracy. You cannot download hardware. In this case, you download software that changes the BIOS (or whatever) of something you paid money for, making it do more than the creators intended. Nothing is stolen and no intellectual rights are violated.

    it should be no more illegal than throwing a super charger on your engine or altering your cars computer to increase horse power by increasing the amount of fuel injected

    might invalidate your warranty but nothing they can do against you

    Buttcleft on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Taking a fast expensive chip and disabling parts of it is how many budget chips are made. Both AMD and Intel do this, they have been doing this since forever, as has every other chip maker o_O

    Letting you "unlock" parts through software is relatively new in the consumer space, I guess. I'm honestly surprised they didn't think of it sooner. Paying to enable processors has been a common thing in the high performance (supercomputing) sector for years.

    Azio on
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    Taking a fast expensive chip and disabling parts of it is how many budget chips are made. Both AMD and Intel do this, they have been doing this since forever, as has every other chip maker o_O

    Letting you "unlock" parts through software is relatively new in the consumer space, I guess. I'm honestly surprised they didn't think of it sooner. Paying to enable processors has been a common thing in the high performance (supercomputing) sector for years.

    Cheap chips are expensive chips with components that are broken, not expensive chips with components that are intentionally disabled.

    Obviously Intel can sell the G6951 at it's full capability for a low price (since they are doing so) and still make a profit, so it seems a little greedy to charge people to "unlock" the chip's full spec.

    The supercomputing aspect is a little different, since supercomputers are generally rented.

    SmokeStacks on
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    Taking a fast expensive chip and disabling parts of it is how many budget chips are made. Both AMD and Intel do this, they have been doing this since forever, as has every other chip maker o_O

    Letting you "unlock" parts through software is relatively new in the consumer space, I guess. I'm honestly surprised they didn't think of it sooner. Paying to enable processors has been a common thing in the high performance (supercomputing) sector for years.

    Cheap chips are expensive chips with components that are broken, not expensive chips with components that are intentionally disabled.

    Obviously Intel can sell the G6951 at it's full capability for a low price (since they are doing so) and still make a profit, so it seems a little greedy to charge people to "unlock" the chip's full spec.

    The supercomputing aspect is a little different, since supercomputers are generally rented.

    No, cheap chips are expensive chips with parts disabled that may or may not be broken. All the quadcores with a busted core go in the Tri-Core pile, but they disable a core on lots of perfectly good quadcores because they can make more money selling them as tri-cores at a cheaper price.

    Once you've built a machine that prints processors, it doesn't cost that much to actually print them.

    I'm not saying this is the same thing, unlocking disabled parts has up till now been free, but risky. Now intel wants to make it guarenteed to work, for a fee. That's really the main difference.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
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  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    If this spreads to higher end CPUs it might actually be kind of nice - buy a cheap CPU, take it home, download an illegal crack to unlock it's full potential, and oh my god we're living in a William Gibson novel.

    Would the crack be illegal or even unethical?

    This is not the same situation as software piracy. You cannot download hardware. In this case, you download software that changes the BIOS (or whatever) of something you paid money for, making it do more than the creators intended. Nothing is stolen and no intellectual rights are violated.

    it should be no more illegal than throwing a super charger on your engine or altering your cars computer to increase horse power by increasing the amount of fuel injected

    might invalidate your warranty but nothing they can do against you

    You increase horsepower by decreasing the amount of fuel injected and leaning out the mixture.

    As to the Intel thing, I'm picturing something like this:

    Engineer: You know, we've gotten to the point where it's not actually cheaper to make processors this slow.
    Marketing: That gives me a wonderful idea...

    Daedalus on
  • AyulinAyulin Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    If this spreads to higher end CPUs it might actually be kind of nice - buy a cheap CPU, take it home, download an illegal crack to unlock it's full potential, and oh my god we're living in a William Gibson novel.

    Would the crack be illegal or even unethical?

    This is not the same situation as software piracy. You cannot download hardware. In this case, you download software that changes the BIOS (or whatever) of something you paid money for, making it do more than the creators intended. Nothing is stolen and no intellectual rights are violated.

    it should be no more illegal than throwing a super charger on your engine or altering your cars computer to increase horse power by increasing the amount of fuel injected

    might invalidate your warranty but nothing they can do against you

    You increase horsepower by decreasing the amount of fuel injected and leaning out the mixture.

    As to the Intel thing, I'm picturing something like this:

    Engineer: You know, we've gotten to the point where it's not actually cheaper to make processors this slow.
    Marketing: That gives me a wonderful idea...

    Actually, would using an unauthorised piece of software to unlock the additional features on the processor void the warranty? Assuming the software does the exact same thing the official one does, but was written by a third-party who released it for free.

    Technically it wouldn't be any different from using the official upgrade software to unlock the features, and since those features were intended to be able to be unlocked, it wouldn't be doing something the manufacturer didn't intend; it's just the way you did it wasn't the way they intended, but the end result is the same.

    Could something like that even be tracked and distinguished from using the official route?

    Ayulin on
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  • TeaSpoonTeaSpoon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Ayulin wrote: »
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    If this spreads to higher end CPUs it might actually be kind of nice - buy a cheap CPU, take it home, download an illegal crack to unlock it's full potential, and oh my god we're living in a William Gibson novel.

    Would the crack be illegal or even unethical?

    This is not the same situation as software piracy. You cannot download hardware. In this case, you download software that changes the BIOS (or whatever) of something you paid money for, making it do more than the creators intended. Nothing is stolen and no intellectual rights are violated.

    it should be no more illegal than throwing a super charger on your engine or altering your cars computer to increase horse power by increasing the amount of fuel injected

    might invalidate your warranty but nothing they can do against you

    You increase horsepower by decreasing the amount of fuel injected and leaning out the mixture.

    As to the Intel thing, I'm picturing something like this:

    Engineer: You know, we've gotten to the point where it's not actually cheaper to make processors this slow.
    Marketing: That gives me a wonderful idea...

    Actually, would using an unauthorised piece of software to unlock the additional features on the processor void the warranty? Assuming the software does the exact same thing the official one does, but was written by a third-party who released it for free.

    Technically it wouldn't be any different from using the official upgrade software to unlock the features, and since those features were intended to be able to be unlocked, it wouldn't be doing something the manufacturer didn't intend; it's just the way you did it wasn't the way they intended, but the end result is the same.

    Could something like that even be tracked and distinguished from using the official route?

    Yes. You probably have to register online to get something unlocked. If I were designing the system, I would force the customers to register the hardware as well. As for people without internet, I would create an automated system for salesmen to do it in the store.

    Anyway, an argument could be made that using unofficial firmware could be damaging to the hardware, thus voiding the warranty. Whether it holds up in court depends on the quality of lawyers each side will engage.

    Maybe the hackers can release software that relocks the processor. Then again, if I were me, I would make it so that unlocking a processor creates a physical, permanent change in the hardware, liking burning out a fuse or something. This would also help my case in court, showing that software can do physical damage.

    You know, this new system would work so much better if it only came in prepackaged systems. Intel could help design motherboards for those systems and create specialized software that helps prevent these hacker shenanigans. And the hardcore market would be placated because they'll be creating their own systems.

    TeaSpoon on
  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I think I'm done with modern computers. If you need me I'll be setting up my amiga in the spare room.

    Falken on
  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    Taking a fast expensive chip and disabling parts of it is how many budget chips are made. Both AMD and Intel do this, they have been doing this since forever, as has every other chip maker o_O

    Letting you "unlock" parts through software is relatively new in the consumer space, I guess. I'm honestly surprised they didn't think of it sooner. Paying to enable processors has been a common thing in the high performance (supercomputing) sector for years.

    Cheap chips are expensive chips with components that are broken, not expensive chips with components that are intentionally disabled.

    Actually, as the fabrication process is refined throughout the life of a given processor design, the proportion of faulty silicon produced reduces dramatically. At that point, cheap chips are precisely expensive chips with features disabled, because there will always be more demand for low end chips than high end.

    This is the whole reason that overclocking to any significant degree is possible.

    japan on
  • EgoEgo Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I don't like it, but, yes, this isn't much different than binning. Just more offensive since they're blatantly stating that the capabilities are there but disabled, this time.

    Ego on
    Erik
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    The binning process remains effectively unchanged. They're just offering people who don't know any better the option to "upgrade" their crippled budget processors for additional profit.

    Azio on
  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    You know that if this catches on, overclocking will become entirely impossible without paying this fee, for any of their processors.

    Daedalus on
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Daedalus wrote: »
    You increase horsepower by decreasing the amount of fuel injected and leaning out the mixture.

    Wanna see your pistons. Wanna have a real good look at them.

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • amnesiasoftamnesiasoft Thick Creamy Furry Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    From what I've seen, this seems to only be targeting OEMs. The only real issue I see with this is the number of people that are going to go "Why do I have to buy a new processor? Why can't I just do that software upgrade thing I did last year?" Only with less accurate wording.

    amnesiasoft on
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  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Daedalus wrote: »
    You know that if this catches on, overclocking will become entirely impossible without paying this fee, for any of their processors.
    I fail to see how this is the case. If anything, this will only make it easier to unlock the hidden capabilities of a budget chip. Trivial for anyone experienced enough to be overclocking in the first place. Look on any OC community site and the consensus seems to be that this is actually a good thing.

    Besides, they only appear to be targeting chips sold with budget PCs, not retail chips, which is what every overclocker buys, so what is the big deal exactly.

    This issue is such a non-starter. Just the latest excuse for slashtards to get their cry on.

    MY MEGAHURTS

    MY IMAGINARY CONSUMER "RIGHTS"

    Azio on
  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Overclocking requires experience? On this PC I just turned numbers up until it said 3.0Ghz.

    Falken on
  • General_WinGeneral_Win Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    If it is only for the budget PCs and only uninformed people buy the budget PCs, like grandma's and computer literate people than not only will they NOT know about this they won't even think of it.

    And its not like someone at BestBuy would be like: HOLD ON GRANDMA instead of you throwing away this perfectly good PC and buying a new one from us, how about you just pay Intel (not us), to give you a slight boost of your megahertz and cache size.

    Informed people will be buying GOOD chips that will either overclock there way around the pay upgrades or buy chips that are good from the get go.

    General_Win on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited September 2010
    Falken wrote: »
    Overclocking requires experience? On this PC I just turned numbers up until it said 3.0Ghz.

    and when your computer craps out 1-2 years earlier than it should have because you didnt plan your airflow accordingly or calculated your increased voltage needs in the box...

    Experience might be too strong a word... but generally speaking you at least need a really good guide.

    syndalis on
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  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Voltage control... [AUTO]


    F11

    Save changes and reboot Y/N? Y





    I've got a huge sythe ninja heatsink and I idle at 34° C. Problem?

    Falken on
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited September 2010
    Falken wrote: »
    Voltage control... [AUTO]


    F11

    Save changes and reboot Y/N? Y





    Problem?

    so what you are saying is that this is a computer you yourself put together, and not an emachine or dell that people have a hell of a time trying to overclock or unlock performance benefits on.

    BIOSs with overclocking features built right in are generally an exclusivity to the system builders and the VooDoo/Alienware buyers of the world.

    edit: and the very fact that you can say sythe ninja heatsink reenforces the whole fucking point. You had a good idea of what was needed with regards to airflow, temperature and voltage management going in. This product is not targeted at you. You know enough to overclock, or at least be dangerous with it and deal with whatever fallout occurs.

    syndalis on
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  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    I'd sure love to show you my £20 (including postage) shitty case with no fans in it.

    As for the heatsink, I just measured how much room I had left in the case then went googling. Not rocket science here.

    Falken on
  • TheKoolEagleTheKoolEagle Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    hrmmm, as long as they keep this idea to budget pcs and oem stuff its not a big deal, and if they move it to processors I buy then i will download the inveitable cracks that open its true capability. seems pretty lame to limit hardware potential for more money

    TheKoolEagle on
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  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    There are users who will build their own machines, and there are users who wouldn't even consider it. There are a lot more of the former* than the latter.

    The "pay to unlock on-chip features" seems to be targetting the former. You buy granny or your nephew a budget laptop, after a year or 2 when they complain it's getting pokey you do your best to speed it up at minimal cost (upgrade RAM and possibly the HDD, remove crapware that's creeped in or re-install Windows). And now maybe you pay the unlock fee so they get HT.


    As to it enterring the retail component market, would it be so bad if you got an i7 with HT disabled and reduced cache so you could save some money now, and then a year or 2 down the line when you upgrade the RAM you could pay some fee to unlock HT and the additional cache instead of doing a processor swap?



    *If my parents see an AV-looking popup they will stop using their computer and wait for me to visit them to see what they should do. To address this issue I just bought them a mac.

    Djeet on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Falken wrote: »
    Voltage control... [AUTO]


    F11

    Save changes and reboot Y/N? Y





    I've got a huge sythe ninja heatsink and I idle at 34° C. Problem?
    The mere fact that you own a machine that allows you to access these settings puts you in like the top 10% of experienced PC users, and probably not the type to buy a Pentium brand processor, literally the absolute bottom of the shitbarrel budget hardware, in the year of our Lord two thousand and ten.

    Furthermore, the fact that you then proceeded to go out and buy (and then install) a third party heatsink and then actually looked at temperature readings makes you very much an enthusiast user and again, probably not someone who will be affected by this scheme.
    I'd sure love to show you my £20 (including postage) shitty case with no fans in it.
    Just because you're a cheapskate doesn't mean you're going to be adversely affected by being able to "upgrade" your processor through software.

    Azio on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Falken wrote: »
    Overclocking requires experience? On this PC I just turned numbers up until it said 3.0Ghz.

    and when your computer craps out 1-2 years earlier than it should have because you didnt plan your airflow accordingly or calculated your increased voltage needs in the box...

    Experience might be too strong a word... but generally speaking you at least need a really good guide.

    Budget stuff may or may not be reallt capable of i too

    as peoplehave said the specs on hardware are estimates at best. A budget processor may be capable of more or it may not. the biggest difference it it's probably never been tested at those higher specs.

    you can easy buy two of the exact same model processor and have one overclock with no trouble and the other fight you every step fo the way.

    nexuscrawler on
  • ZeonZeon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Djeet wrote: »
    There are users who will build their own machines, and there are users who wouldn't even consider it. There are a lot more of the former* than the latter.

    The "pay to unlock on-chip features" seems to be targetting the former. You buy granny or your nephew a budget laptop, after a year or 2 when they complain it's getting pokey you do your best to speed it up at minimal cost (upgrade RAM and possibly the HDD, remove crapware that's creeped in or re-install Windows). And now maybe you pay the unlock fee so they get HT.


    As to it enterring the retail component market, would it be so bad if you got an i7 with HT disabled and reduced cache so you could save some money now, and then a year or 2 down the line when you upgrade the RAM you could pay some fee to unlock HT and the additional cache instead of doing a processor swap?



    *If my parents see an AV-looking popup they will stop using their computer and wait for me to visit them to see what they should do. To address this issue I just bought them a mac.

    I disagree with this on the same principle i disagree with DLC that unlocks things already on a game disc. You bought a processor. Parts of it work but are disabled. You pay additional money to make full use of what you bought. That seems lame. I am not a fan.

    Zeon on
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  • FalkenFalken Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    The mere fact that you own a machine that allows you to access these settings puts you in like the top 10% of experienced PC users, and probably not the type to buy a Pentium brand processor, literally the absolute bottom of the shitbarrel budget hardware, in the year of our Lord two thousand and ten.

    Pentium dual core, e5200. The one that overclocks like a mofucka.
    Azio wrote: »
    I'd sure love to show you my £20 (including postage) shitty case with no fans in it.
    Just because you're a cheapskate doesn't mean you're going to be adversely affected by being able to "upgrade" your processor through software.

    ...I, er, what? ...I never said it did?

    Falken on
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Zeon wrote: »
    I disagree with this on the same principle i disagree with DLC that unlocks things already on a game disc. You bought a processor. Parts of it work but are disabled. You pay additional money to make full use of what you bought. That seems lame. I am not a fan.


    So if you bought the same game, but a version that didn't have the DLC (or additional content as it were) in the original media you bought, but you could buy and download that DLC at a later date, that wouldn't offend you?

    Djeet on
  • AzioAzio Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Falken wrote: »
    ...I, er, what? ...I never said it did?
    Sorry, I thought you were implying something but evidently you were not. I stand corrected. Yes overclocking these days is stupid easy, but still not something most people are going to be doing. And in any case I don't think this will affect your ability to overclock.
    Zeon wrote: »
    I disagree with this on the same principle i disagree with DLC that unlocks things already on a game disc. You bought a processor. Parts of it work but are disabled. You pay additional money to make full use of what you bought. That seems lame. I am not a fan.
    Is it really any worse than the previous arrangement? You buy a processor, parts of it "work" but are disabled, and you can never "make full use" of it. This is how market segmentation works in the desktop processor market. It has always worked this way.

    Oh and as for the whole DLC argument, you did not buy the materials on the disc, you bought a license to use those materials according to specific terms. You can't play World Of Warcraft without paying subscription fees just because you think you own the disc it was printed on. But I'm sure you've already heard that before.

    Azio on
  • taliosfalcontaliosfalcon Registered User regular
    edited September 2010
    Azio wrote: »
    Falken wrote: »
    Voltage control... [AUTO]


    F11

    Save changes and reboot Y/N? Y





    I've got a huge sythe ninja heatsink and I idle at 34° C. Problem?
    The mere fact that you own a machine that allows you to access these settings puts you in like the top 10% of experienced PC users, and probably not the type to buy a Pentium brand processor, literally the absolute bottom of the shitbarrel budget hardware, in the year of our Lord two thousand and ten.

    Furthermore, the fact that you then proceeded to go out and buy (and then install) a third party heatsink and then actually looked at temperature readings makes you very much an enthusiast user and again, probably not someone who will be affected by this scheme.
    I'd sure love to show you my £20 (including postage) shitty case with no fans in it.
    Just because you're a cheapskate doesn't mean you're going to be adversely affected by being able to "upgrade" your processor through software.

    Auto overclocks usually put the voltage way higher then it needs to go, if he's overclocked and idling at 34 on air i'd guess he's also only using a program that reports temperatures from the motherboard sensor, not the chip itself (which is usually 10-15 degrees higher)

    taliosfalcon on
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