Arch, I think he meant the persecution complex some people have. Not sure though. Otherwise yeah that isn't tolerance Will.
Edit: Guess I was wrong. Saying someone has a pathological problem is not tolerance. Especially when large parts of that are just different wiring and such.
so is transgenderism not regarded as a pathology?
because a quick google search seems to turn up that this is a hotly-debated topic in psychology.
i'm not a psychologist, so i guess i don't really know where the line of "pathology" is.
This is going to be my last post on this stuff, I knew I shouldn't have opened my mouth.
Pathological and such in normal speech hold a negative spin to them. Being transgendered isn't something we should see as negative or living in alternative relationships. Describing it as a pathology outside of a scientific study putting on the cultural thought process that such behavior is abhorrent and should be treated to fit the norm. When it shouldn't. This is not something that should be clumped in actual pathological problems.
The question "is X pathological?" is a can containing two really big worms. The first worm is "is X a disease-state?" which is itself a controversial area; the second worm is "what kind of stigma will we introduce by labeling X pathological, and is that stigma deserved?"
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
"Unless in a restaurant or bar that sells them, it is polite to ask the staff if cigars may be smoked, even in the smoking section, as even many smokers find their odor particularly offensive."
I prefer the smoke of a cigar a hundred times over more than the smoke of a cigarette. I don't care which is worse, etc, etc, cigars smell better to me and don't cause involuntary coughing (which smokers seem to construe as hinting that that they shouldn't be smoking, which of course I think but would never tell them, so dirty looks all around).
Donkey Kong on
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
A problematic issue I've observed in particular with the perception of feminism on the internet is that feminists will be quick to cry "strawman!" (strawperson? teehee) or point out how that's not real feminism when people bring up anecdotes of nutbag "feminazis" they've encountered or whatever.
And I'm not accusing those feminists of "No True Scotsman", although sometimes that also happens.
No, the real problem is that within their own online communities (and within the classrooms of women's studies) not enough internal policing is done of this extremism and insanity. Instead, you see cries of "SAFE SPACE" and other insular policies that make it impossible to criticize someone else's viewpoint as too extreme or harmful to the movement as a whole.
This is essentially a problem with almost every kind of establishment-challenging political umbrella, where the extremists and crazies can't be called out by the reasonable moderates even within their own discussions because in doing so the accusation is inevitably leveled that you are no different than the heteronormative patriarchy or whatever and trying to squelch ideas and discussion.
I'm not saying it's the responsibility of every feminist to police other feminists for insane bullshit ideas, but the fact that the discussion culture (especially online) is antithetical to the very idea of demanding people moderate their ideology is problematic.
"Unless in a restaurant or bar that sells them, it is polite to ask the staff if cigars may be smoked, even in the smoking section, as even many smokers find their odor particularly offensive."
I prefer the smoke of a cigar a hundred times over more than the smoke of a cigarette. I don't care which is worse, etc, etc, cigars smell better to me.
Yeah, for me cigars actually have a pretty pleasant smell. Cigarettes.... not so much
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
So, Archer is pretty much the greatest show to watch while you're wasted. I literally cried from laughing at it and I'm not entirely sure why.
Alternately: don't do a Ph D.
You probably won't get to nail the other hot Ph. D candidate in your group, because you're not nearly as awesome as I am and thus it will just be soul destroying and let's face it, the crazy chick is just crazy.
The highest tenet of North American etiquette is that it is inappropriate to tell others they are not following proper etiquette
Will you are breaking the highest tenet by complaining about all of this inappropriate behaviour.
unless 1) they are specifically asking whether they are being rude, or 2) the person is under your instruction, such as is the case with a parent, babysitter, teacher, or supervisor.
Damnit. Will better not be bringing any boys around.
But we know he will because that is the expected behaviour.
VH, you should give LoL a shake, you might like it.
Inquisitor on
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited September 2010
Pony, safespaces are sort of necessary. For example, gay people need a place where they don't have to be afraid they'll be called fag if they look at some same-sex person. And women need somewhere to discuss womanly things, especially with respect to culture at large.
Though safespaces are, admittedly, a tricky thing, and it does take some discipline to make sure that the safe space doesn't allow noxious ideas to take hold.
A problematic issue I've observed in particular with the perception of feminism on the internet is that feminists will be quick to cry "strawman!" (strawperson? teehee) or point out how that's not real feminism when people bring up anecdotes of nutbag "feminazis" they've encountered or whatever.
And I'm not accusing those feminists of "No True Scotsman", although sometimes that also happens.
No, the real problem is that within their own online communities (and within the classrooms of women's studies) not enough internal policing is done of this extremism and insanity. Instead, you see cries of "SAFE SPACE" and other insular policies that make it impossible to criticize someone else's viewpoint as too extreme or harmful to the movement as a whole.
This is essentially a problem with almost every kind of establishment-challenging political umbrella, where the extremists and crazies can't be called out by the reasonable moderates even within their own discussions because in doing so the accusation is inevitably leveled that you are no different than the heteronormative patriarchy or whatever and trying to squelch ideas and discussion.
I'm not saying it's the responsibility of every feminist to police other feminists for insane bullshit ideas, but the fact that the discussion culture (especially online) is antithetical to the very idea of demanding people moderate their ideology is problematic.
Yep. That's exactly what I was referring to. I also tend to think there is an effect from constantly talking to only, or mostly likeminded people where those ideas become your new norm, and as that happens, more extreme ideas gradually become more and more acceptable. Thus, people in political groups tend to progress toward the fringe over time.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
So, Archer is pretty much the greatest show to watch while you're wasted. I literally cried from laughing at it and I'm not entirely sure why.
Alternately: don't do a Ph D.
You probably won't get to nail the other hot Ph. D candidate in your group, because you're not nearly as awesome as I am and thus it will just be soul destroying and let's face it, the crazy chick is just crazy.
High five "sleeping with the hot girl in your group" buddy. I just wish the rest of the PhD was as successful.
Mojo_Jojo on
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
Ultimately, whether or not a state is a disease-state is largely socially determined; when we say "X is a disease" what we're really saying is "people shouldn't have X, and medical professionals are the best people to get rid of X or reduce X's effects." The first part of that is a normative judgment, the second part of that is a pragmatic one.
Nobody's been able to come up with a culture-independent definition of "disease."
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
VH:I have not gone to the shop to pick up the deck, if I get really into it I will grab the book. 17 bucks is still 17 dollars for an unemployed man like me. But I still kind of want to try it out. The website has the cards for the battle box I can run a small force off of those. Which is Skorcha, a Devastator and another Jack. I can get it up to 15 pretty quickly if you want to run a vassal game with that at some point.
Ultimately, whether or not a state is a disease-state is largely socially determined; when we say "X is a disease" what we're really saying is "people shouldn't have X, and medical professionals are the best people to get rid of X or reduce X's effects." The first part of that is a normative judgment, the second part of that is a pragmatic one.
Nobody's been able to come up with a culture-independent definition of "disease."
| Zinnar on most things | Avatar by Blameless Cleric
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
edited September 2010
Will, I smell the Internet. I sniff your posts, they are like succulent hams to my nostrils. The Internet is as real to me as what you call the "real world". Your intolerance stinks of sulfur, the eggs rotting next to the festering ham that once shone with grease. I must throw it in the garbage for the hobos must feast this evening.
Organichu, I would be hella impressed if Applebees even knew what a Sazerac was besides guessing it was a malicious mountain demon.
i am kind of nervous, though, that i'll misstep- thinking the bar is fancy enough for certain cocktails when they are not
what about the bar of like, a chain restaurant? would they be able to make one of the classic cocktails (old fashioned, sazerac, etc.)?
if they did, would it be terrible?
I think if a bar has liquor and they can't make you at least a passable old fashioned, it's not a bar you'd want to be ordering those types of drinks from.
Also: If the bartender is under 30, it will be hit-or-miss unless it's a swanky joint.
I'm not saying it's the responsibility of every feminist to police other feminists for insane bullshit ideas, but the fact that the discussion culture (especially online) is antithetical to the very idea of demanding people moderate their ideology is problematic.
I think this is partly that(at least in the case of minority groups) they've had majorities moderating them without their consent for quite some time.
Also, if you're going to draw a line, that begs the question, "where shall we place it?"
Psycho Internet Hawk on
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
i am kind of nervous, though, that i'll misstep- thinking the bar is fancy enough for certain cocktails when they are not
what about the bar of like, a chain restaurant? would they be able to make one of the classic cocktails (old fashioned, sazerac, etc.)?
if they did, would it be terrible?
Your chances of them serving you a specific drink at a chain restaurant bar are high, but the chances of that drink being mixed shittily is almost certain.
Ultimately, whether or not a state is a disease-state is largely socially determined; when we say "X is a disease" what we're really saying is "people shouldn't have X, and medical professionals are the best people to get rid of X or reduce X's effects." The first part of that is a normative judgment, the second part of that is a pragmatic one.
Nobody's been able to come up with a culture-independent definition of "disease."
Well, at least for mental disorders
Even physical diseases require a value judgment. It's just that when it comes to them it's much easier to find a uniform, cross-cultural consensus on "I don't want my dick to explode into bloody shreds."
Posts
The question "is X pathological?" is a can containing two really big worms. The first worm is "is X a disease-state?" which is itself a controversial area; the second worm is "what kind of stigma will we introduce by labeling X pathological, and is that stigma deserved?"
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Shave your taint man, your ass looks like its got a scroatee.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Not that I'm going to.
Sorry to anyone I've been a jerk to.
"Unless in a restaurant or bar that sells them, it is polite to ask the staff if cigars may be smoked, even in the smoking section, as even many smokers find their odor particularly offensive."
I prefer the smoke of a cigar a hundred times over more than the smoke of a cigarette. I don't care which is worse, etc, etc, cigars smell better to me and don't cause involuntary coughing (which smokers seem to construe as hinting that that they shouldn't be smoking, which of course I think but would never tell them, so dirty looks all around).
And I'm not accusing those feminists of "No True Scotsman", although sometimes that also happens.
No, the real problem is that within their own online communities (and within the classrooms of women's studies) not enough internal policing is done of this extremism and insanity. Instead, you see cries of "SAFE SPACE" and other insular policies that make it impossible to criticize someone else's viewpoint as too extreme or harmful to the movement as a whole.
This is essentially a problem with almost every kind of establishment-challenging political umbrella, where the extremists and crazies can't be called out by the reasonable moderates even within their own discussions because in doing so the accusation is inevitably leveled that you are no different than the heteronormative patriarchy or whatever and trying to squelch ideas and discussion.
I'm not saying it's the responsibility of every feminist to police other feminists for insane bullshit ideas, but the fact that the discussion culture (especially online) is antithetical to the very idea of demanding people moderate their ideology is problematic.
Yeah, for me cigars actually have a pretty pleasant smell. Cigarettes.... not so much
Alternately: don't do a Ph D.
You probably won't get to nail the other hot Ph. D candidate in your group, because you're not nearly as awesome as I am and thus it will just be soul destroying and let's face it, the crazy chick is just crazy.
Its too late I've dispatched the dick wolves, with each howling unwelcome thrust you'll think next time before you post.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Damnit. Will better not be bringing any boys around.
But we know he will because that is the expected behaviour.
made me laugh more then it probably should have.
i definitely would not point out someone's misbehavior to them in real life unless they asked me for my opinion of it.
because we're on the internet and we're swapping opinions on things, i let my opinions of courtesy and proper behavior be known.
Though safespaces are, admittedly, a tricky thing, and it does take some discipline to make sure that the safe space doesn't allow noxious ideas to take hold.
Yep. That's exactly what I was referring to. I also tend to think there is an effect from constantly talking to only, or mostly likeminded people where those ideas become your new norm, and as that happens, more extreme ideas gradually become more and more acceptable. Thus, people in political groups tend to progress toward the fringe over time.
Yeah I don't think you are in the wrong here at all, if only they would accept you have a different opinion. Sadly they aren't even tolerating it.
pleasepaypreacher.net
High five "sleeping with the hot girl in your group" buddy. I just wish the rest of the PhD was as successful.
what about the bar of like, a chain restaurant? would they be able to make one of the classic cocktails (old fashioned, sazerac, etc.)?
if they did, would it be terrible?
Nobody's been able to come up with a culture-independent definition of "disease."
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
come here and drink i know some fancy pants bars
It's absolutely over-hyped. You'd have better luck with cough medicine.
VH:I have not gone to the shop to pick up the deck, if I get really into it I will grab the book. 17 bucks is still 17 dollars for an unemployed man like me. But I still kind of want to try it out. The website has the cards for the battle box I can run a small force off of those. Which is Skorcha, a Devastator and another Jack. I can get it up to 15 pretty quickly if you want to run a vassal game with that at some point.
Well, at least for mental disorders
Organichu, I would be hella impressed if Applebees even knew what a Sazerac was besides guessing it was a malicious mountain demon.
What makes it better than DotA?
Because I was playing SCII's DotA and I was not pleased.
I saw it, it was great.
You don't go to an applebees and order an old fashioned. You get a beer, or a jack and coke.
Hell, you don't go anywhere and order an old fashioned.
I think if a bar has liquor and they can't make you at least a passable old fashioned, it's not a bar you'd want to be ordering those types of drinks from.
Also: If the bartender is under 30, it will be hit-or-miss unless it's a swanky joint.
I think this is partly that(at least in the case of minority groups) they've had majorities moderating them without their consent for quite some time.
Also, if you're going to draw a line, that begs the question, "where shall we place it?"
Your chances of them serving you a specific drink at a chain restaurant bar are high, but the chances of that drink being mixed shittily is almost certain.
Even physical diseases require a value judgment. It's just that when it comes to them it's much easier to find a uniform, cross-cultural consensus on "I don't want my dick to explode into bloody shreds."
yes
The Black Dynamite drinking game will get you DRUNK.
I have this problem with bars around here
"Oh this place looks like they know how to make a proper mojito or Manhattan oh whooops all they have is mixers"
I still laugh about the fake ad the movie opens up with.
pleasepaypreacher.net