How about instead of the extreme of two hot chicks making out, have a thirty-second ad split evenly between two attractive guys doing something like a family dinner and two good-looking women having a similar homey thing? Appeal to both sexes, and show that gay people like the same things straights do.
ummm... since im all for equal rights for gays/lesbains already, can I get the commercial with the two hot chicks making out?
Deebaser on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
I agree with the suggestion above of showing gay couples doing normal things.
Like, have a family dinner, kids laughing, grandpa chatting his daughter, there's Dad feeding the baby, pan around ... and there's other dad helping grama bring the food in.
I think in the end most people are pretty accepting if their long time friend or whatever comes out cause, you know, sure he's gay, but he's your buddy! He's cool, unlike all those other freaky gays the Newsman tells me about. Show that their just normal people, just like you.
shryke on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
I agree with the suggestion above of showing gay couples doing normal things.
PR people are aware of this line of approach. IIRC there was a campaign down under that was more or less this exact strategy: showing woman in bed fighting over the blankets, then panning back to show that her partner is actually a woman; having a woman talking to someone about how insecure she feels when the offscreen partner stares at other women, then panning back to show that the partner is actually another women, etc.
This is also why gay rights groups love wedding photos. Weddings are universally keyed to joy. The appropriate response to seeing people getting married is to overflow with well wishes. So by showing gay and lesbian couples marrying it prompts the viewers to have that response to a gay and lesbian couple.
So I wrote this op-ed for the local paper, and I'm looking for feedback before sending it.
Thoughts? Feel free to be as brutal as possible; I'd love for this message to get out there.
Austin gay teens,
I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention to the news recently. But if you have, you might have heard about some gay teens who have committed suicide. Most recently, it was Tyler Clementi, an 18 year old college student who jumped off a bridge earlier this week.
The adults in this gay-friendly city might think our teens are immune to the forces that drive them to suicide, but I grew up here. I went to Crockett High School and graduated from St. Edward’s University in 2008.
Austin is a friendly place for a gay adult, but that’s not always the case for you, as a teen.
Maybe you’ve been bullied or harassed at school. Perhaps your parents don’t accept you. Maybe you’ve been abandoned by your friends, or humiliated by them. Maybe you’ve been bothered by the anti-gay teachings of your church. Or maybe you just feel different, lonely, or confused.
But I want you to know something:
It gets better.
And you need to be alive to see it.
Take me, for example. My parents were very religious and intolerant towards gays, and I believed the homophobic teachings of my church up until about halfway through college. My parents tried to force me into religious counseling when I came out, and withheld financial support until I gave in. Some of my friends abandoned me, and I felt lonely, rejected, and terrible.
But it got better.
Now, at 24, my life is great. I have a great job at a local non-profit. My friends are awesome and loving. My parents and I now have a great relationship. I’m happier than I’ve ever been in my life.
I’m also dating this really awesome guy, a programmer who loves cats and dogs, movies and video games. We’ve seen movies at the Austin Gay and Lesbian Film Festival and FantasticFest, and we’ve hiked and swam at the Barton Creek Greenbelt. We’ve played wacky board games that we bought at Dragon’s Lair up in North Austin and we regularly enjoy having frozen margaritas and fajitas at Maudie’s.
Austin is a great place to be a grown-up gay. You should stick around and see what that’s like.
If you’re having problems at school, or with your family, church, or friends, please talk to someone you trust. Call the Trevor Project hotline at (866) 488-7386, or get in touch with Out Youth at www.outyouth.org. Or heck, if none of them help, find me on Facebook and send me a message.
But most importantly, remember that it doesn’t matter how bad things are right now, because your life will be amazing once you get out of high school and college and start living life on your own terms.
There was a campaign like that for a while. Including a lady drinking milk straight from the carton and then denying it when her same-sex partner asks from the other room if she's doing it. "Gay marriage is just like yours...only gayer."
I still hold that Pavlovian conditioning applies to humans. And that people make decisions emotionally and not rationally.
If every pro-gay-marriage commercial had two super hot lesbians making out, even the staunchest opponents would start to appreciate gay marriage. Instead of, "Ugh, fags," it would become "gay marriage is wrong but it ain't so bad. Hell I'mma go buy the DVD of gay marriage."
It's not a rational argument. You just make them feel good every time they see your political advertising, and count on it during voting time. It's fundamentally the same thing all political candidates do.
Man, that ain't nearly how Classical Conditioning works anyway.
It's got to be on a much, much simpler level. And it doesn't really change cognitions, only specific behavior.
Edit: Man the "it gets better" stuff chokes me the hell up.
There was a campaign like that for a while. Including a lady drinking milk straight from the carton and then denying it when her same-sex partner asks from the other room if she's doing it. "Gay marriage is just like yours...only gayer."
There was a campaign like that for a while. Including a lady drinking milk straight from the carton and then denying it when her same-sex partner asks from the other room if she's doing it. "Gay marriage is just like yours...only gayer."
Melks is it important to mention where you bought the board games? I've visited Austin a few times, but I can't say I know anything about Dragon's Liar.
I think it is more important to just talk about having fun and enjoying life with your boyfriend than name dropping things like the "Austin Gay and Lesbian Film Festival." That is unless you think all austin area gay teens strive to visit that film festival.
CommunistCow on
No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
I still hold that Pavlovian conditioning applies to humans. And that people make decisions emotionally and not rationally.
If every pro-gay-marriage commercial had two super hot lesbians making out, even the staunchest opponents would start to appreciate gay marriage. Instead of, "Ugh, fags," it would become "gay marriage is wrong but it ain't so bad. Hell I'mma go buy the DVD of gay marriage."
It's not a rational argument. You just make them feel good every time they see your political advertising, and count on it during voting time. It's fundamentally the same thing all political candidates do.
Man, that ain't nearly how Classical Conditioning works anyway.
It's got to be on a much, much simpler level. And it doesn't really change cognitions, only specific behavior.
Edit: Man the "it gets better" stuff chokes me the hell up.
Umm, by "the staunchest opponents" do you actually mean "some heterosexual men"? Because those are the only ones I can see your theory having a possible effect on.
Besides, if your Pavlovian method works and is legitimate, why limit its application to gay rights? Let's have every political ad have two hot chicks making out so the public gets a positive association with that candidate. Put them in car commercials, PSAs, have replace Biden and Pelosi with a couple of pornstars going at it behind Obama during the State of the Union. I'm sure there won't be any negative repercussions.
Commercials do this all the time anyway.
Beer? If you buy it, hot chicks want to sleep with you.
New Car? If you buy it, hot chicks want to sleep with you.
Doritos? Apparently hot chicks want to sleep with you because of Doritos or something.
Internet Domain Name Registration? Hot chicks.
Occasionally, you get family friendly stuff, like how McDonalds makes your family love you. And political campaigns are American flags, American flags, American flags, American flags... Advertising has already gone to purely emotional arguments.
Sex sells. There's a reason every other advertisement does it already. And yeah, two chicks making out is hyperbole, but it still seems odd that gay instead of lesbian is the face of the movement.
zerg rush on
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
Doesn't seem odd to me when the mentality that lesbians are just women who never had 'good sex' with a man before still exists.
Melks is it important to mention where you bought the board games? I've visited Austin a few times, but I can't say I know anything about Dragon's Liar.
I think it is more important to just talk about having fun and enjoying life with your boyfriend than name dropping things like the "Austin Gay and Lesbian Film Festival." That is unless you think all austin area gay teens strive to visit that film festival.
I was trying to ground it reality. I wanted to be specific that we're enjoying THESE THINGS in AUSTIN, specifically. That is, Austin is an awesome place to be gay for reasons 1, 2, and 3.
Edit: I mean, I'm not trying to say that's what they should strive for, any more than they might be struggling with the same things that I have struggled with. I'm just trying to convey my personal specific experience, which connects to a broader theme. Namely, that being a gay grown up is miles better than being a gay teen.
Sex sells. There's a reason every other advertisement does it already. And yeah, two chicks making out is hyperbole, but it still seems odd that gay instead of lesbian is the face of the movement.
If sex really sold, then every single advertisement everywhere for everything would have people getting it on, and the most successful ad campaigns of all time would involve sex. They don't, and they don't. It's almost as if "sex sells" is a slogan thrown around by lazy ad guys - hey, can't think of a clever tagline, so I'll put in T&A.
And we've been over the hot lesbian chicks issue. Repeatedly. It's nonsense. Do you really think there is a correlation between guys who have stacks of lesbian porn on their hard drives and positive attitudes about homosexuals, let alone gay marriage? I get that you want to see ads with chicks making out, but c'mon.
Speaking from personal experience, no, the 'lesbian' label does not mean 'homosexual' to an awful lot of straight people. It just means 'really into chicks.' Do you really think out lesbians never get hit on by straight men, or never get a hostile reaction when they explain that 'lesbian' means something other than 'sure, I'd love to have a hot threesome with you and your girlfriend'? And you're making a rather large leap to assume that people follow this train of logic: I find two feminine women making out totally hot, therefore I accept homosexuality, therefore I believe homosexuals should have full civil rights.
Melkster: I think it's perfect as is. Go you.
mythago on
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Umm, by "the staunchest opponents" do you actually mean "some heterosexual men"? Because those are the only ones I can see your theory having a possible effect on.
Besides, if your Pavlovian method works and is legitimate, why limit its application to gay rights? Let's have every political ad have two hot chicks making out so the public gets a positive association with that candidate. Put them in car commercials, PSAs, have replace Biden and Pelosi with a couple of pornstars going at it behind Obama during the State of the Union. I'm sure there won't be any negative repercussions.
Commercials do this all the time anyway.
Beer? If you buy it, hot chicks want to sleep with you.
New Car? If you buy it, hot chicks want to sleep with you.
Doritos? Apparently hot chicks want to sleep with you because of Doritos or something.
Internet Domain Name Registration? Hot chicks.
Occasionally, you get family friendly stuff, like how McDonalds makes your family love you. And political campaigns are American flags, American flags, American flags, American flags... Advertising has already gone to purely emotional arguments.
Sex sells. There's a reason every other advertisement does it already. And yeah, two chicks making out is hyperbole, but it still seems odd that gay instead of lesbian is the face of the movement.
I've found that McDonald's (at least a lot of McDonald's) makes chicks not want to sleep with you, so it would just be false advertising.
The Education Secretary released this statement yesterday.
"This week, we sadly lost two young men who took their own lives for one unacceptable reason: they were being bullied and harassed because they were openly gay or believed to be gay. These unnecessary tragedies come on the heels of at least three other young people taking their own lives because the trauma of being bullied and harassed for their actual or perceived sexual orientation was too much to bear.
"This is a moment where every one of us - parents, teachers, students, elected officials, and all people of conscience - needs to stand up and speak out against intolerance in all its forms. Whether it's students harassing other students because of ethnicity, disability or religion; or an adult, public official harassing the President of the University of Michigan student body because he is gay, it is time we as a country said enough. No more. This must stop."
Doesn't seem odd to me when the mentality that lesbians are just women who never had 'good sex' with a man before still exists.
To be fair, my ex-girlfriend fell into that category. Kind of sort of stole her from her girlfriend. Granted, it was more like she just gravitated toward me, but still. Her ex wasn't happy about it, and took revenge by stealing both of our sketchbooks.
The Education Secretary released this statement yesterday.
"This week, we sadly lost two young men who took their own lives for one unacceptable reason: they were being bullied and harassed because they were openly gay or believed to be gay. These unnecessary tragedies come on the heels of at least three other young people taking their own lives because the trauma of being bullied and harassed for their actual or perceived sexual orientation was too much to bear.
"This is a moment where every one of us - parents, teachers, students, elected officials, and all people of conscience - needs to stand up and speak out against intolerance in all its forms. Whether it's students harassing other students because of ethnicity, disability or religion; or an adult, public official harassing the President of the University of Michigan student body because he is gay, it is time we as a country said enough. No more. This must stop."
Bolded for fuck yeah
They really just need to come out and say "listen, conservative Christians, this is pretty much all your fault, and you are horrible fucking people who don't even know what the founder of your own church had to say on the issue."
A friend of mine posted the Ellen video on Facebook.
Only two replies were A) What about suicide from OTHER things, huh? And proceeded into shalmtzy rant about love and What about MILITARY deaths, huh? The media never covers those!
I kinda lost it and went a bit into angry rant mode there.
A friend of mine posted the Ellen video on Facebook.
Only two replies were A) What about suicide from OTHER things, huh? And proceeded into shalmtzy rant about love and What about MILITARY deaths, huh? The media never covers those!
I kinda lost it and went a bit into angry rant mode there.
Did you remind them that people being bullied for being timid and people being bullied for being in the Marines isn't really common or in some cases considered SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE?
I forgot to mention that the guy ranting about military deaths began his post with "Suicides happen all the time...". Yeah.
Yeah, they're like thunderstorms or earthquakes or car accidents. They happen all the time, no point in trying to stop them, right?
What the city needed, said reformers, was a sewage system that
would carry waste away from the river.
Yet no private individual was willing to build such a system, and influential people were
opposed to the idea that the government should take responsibility
for such a problem. For example, the magazine The Economist weighed
in against the proposals for a government-built sewage system,
declaring that "suffering and evil are nature's abominations- they cannot be gotten rid of."
Styrofoam Sammich on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
For example, the magazine The Economist weighed
in against the proposals for a government-built sewage system,
declaring that "suffering and evil are nature's abominations- they cannot be gotten rid of."
I see they're getting back to their roots. Today they'd say the same thing with some free market arglebargle thrown in.
mythago on
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Bleh, facebook guy is a raging fundie. Apparently we're supposed to just love everyone but being gay is a sin so fuck these kids. I really have a hard time deciphering it, but it basically sounds like he wants to come off as a compassionate guy while simultaneously giving the finger to those goddamn faggots.
He never said anything beyond "Being gay is a sin," but it's so damn tasteless to post that shit and the hypocrisy of his love 'n' hugs bullshit shines through.
Bleh, facebook guy is a raging fundie. Apparently we're supposed to just love everyone but being gay is a sin so fuck these kids. I really have a hard time deciphering it, but it basically sounds like he wants to come off as a compassionate guy while simultaneously giving the finger to those goddamn faggots.
whos this now?
Styrofoam Sammich on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Bleh, facebook guy is a raging fundie. Apparently we're supposed to just love everyone but being gay is a sin so fuck these kids. I really have a hard time deciphering it, but it basically sounds like he wants to come off as a compassionate guy while simultaneously giving the finger to those goddamn faggots.
So I wrote this op-ed for the local paper, and I'm looking for feedback before sending it.
Thoughts? Feel free to be as brutal as possible; I'd love for this message to get out there.
Austin gay teens,
I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention to the news recently. But if you have, you might have heard about some gay teens who have committed suicide. Most recently, it was Tyler Clementi, an 18 year old college student who jumped off a bridge earlier this week.
The adults in this gay-friendly city might think our teens are immune to the forces that drive them to suicide, but I grew up here. I went to Crockett High School and graduated from St. Edward’s University in 2008.
Austin is a friendly place for a gay adult, but that’s not always the case for you, as a teen.
Maybe you’ve been bullied or harassed at school. Perhaps your parents don’t accept you. Maybe you’ve been abandoned by your friends, or humiliated by them. Maybe you’ve been bothered by the anti-gay teachings of your church. Or maybe you just feel different, lonely, or confused.
But I want you to know something:
It gets better.
And you need to be alive to see it.
Take me, for example. My parents were very religious and intolerant towards gays, and I believed the homophobic teachings of my church up until about halfway through college. My parents tried to force me into religious counseling when I came out, and withheld financial support until I gave in. Some of my friends abandoned me, and I felt lonely, rejected, and terrible.
But it got better.
Now, at 24, my life is great. I have a great job at a local non-profit. My friends are awesome and loving. My parents and I now have a great relationship. I’m happier than I’ve ever been in my life.
I’m also dating this really awesome guy, a programmer who loves cats and dogs, movies and video games. We’ve seen movies at the Austin Gay and Lesbian Film Festival and FantasticFest, and we’ve hiked and swam at the Barton Creek Greenbelt. We’ve played wacky board games that we bought at Dragon’s Lair up in North Austin and we regularly enjoy having frozen margaritas and fajitas at Maudie’s.
Austin is a great place to be a grown-up gay. You should stick around and see what that’s like.
If you’re having problems at school, or with your family, church, or friends, please talk to someone you trust. Call the Trevor Project hotline at (866) 488-7386, or get in touch with Out Youth at www.outyouth.org. Or heck, if none of them help, find me on Facebook and send me a message.
But most importantly, remember that it doesn’t matter how bad things are right now, because your life will be amazing once you get out of high school and college and start living life on your own terms.
Adam Easterling
That's fantastic. Depending on the paper though, they might be hesitant to publish something that takes that many swipes at religion. On the otherhand, the points about religious teachings being largely intolerant is motherfucking spot on.
Posts
ummm... since im all for equal rights for gays/lesbains already, can I get the commercial with the two hot chicks making out?
This is extremely doubtful, and even were it not, it's also horrifyingly objectifying.
Like, have a family dinner, kids laughing, grandpa chatting his daughter, there's Dad feeding the baby, pan around ... and there's other dad helping grama bring the food in.
I think in the end most people are pretty accepting if their long time friend or whatever comes out cause, you know, sure he's gay, but he's your buddy! He's cool, unlike all those other freaky gays the Newsman tells me about. Show that their just normal people, just like you.
PR people are aware of this line of approach. IIRC there was a campaign down under that was more or less this exact strategy: showing woman in bed fighting over the blankets, then panning back to show that her partner is actually a woman; having a woman talking to someone about how insecure she feels when the offscreen partner stares at other women, then panning back to show that the partner is actually another women, etc.
This is also why gay rights groups love wedding photos. Weddings are universally keyed to joy. The appropriate response to seeing people getting married is to overflow with well wishes. So by showing gay and lesbian couples marrying it prompts the viewers to have that response to a gay and lesbian couple.
Thoughts? Feel free to be as brutal as possible; I'd love for this message to get out there.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Man, that ain't nearly how Classical Conditioning works anyway.
It's got to be on a much, much simpler level. And it doesn't really change cognitions, only specific behavior.
Edit: Man the "it gets better" stuff chokes me the hell up.
That is an excellent slogan.
I like that tag line.
I think it is more important to just talk about having fun and enjoying life with your boyfriend than name dropping things like the "Austin Gay and Lesbian Film Festival." That is unless you think all austin area gay teens strive to visit that film festival.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-hVWQnjjM
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I thought that was fantastic. The use of local Austin locations (I'm assuming) grounded it in reality, and it felt really sincere. Send it.
Commercials do this all the time anyway.
Beer? If you buy it, hot chicks want to sleep with you.
New Car? If you buy it, hot chicks want to sleep with you.
Doritos? Apparently hot chicks want to sleep with you because of Doritos or something.
Internet Domain Name Registration? Hot chicks.
Occasionally, you get family friendly stuff, like how McDonalds makes your family love you. And political campaigns are American flags, American flags, American flags, American flags... Advertising has already gone to purely emotional arguments.
Sex sells. There's a reason every other advertisement does it already. And yeah, two chicks making out is hyperbole, but it still seems odd that gay instead of lesbian is the face of the movement.
I was trying to ground it reality. I wanted to be specific that we're enjoying THESE THINGS in AUSTIN, specifically. That is, Austin is an awesome place to be gay for reasons 1, 2, and 3.
Edit: I mean, I'm not trying to say that's what they should strive for, any more than they might be struggling with the same things that I have struggled with. I'm just trying to convey my personal specific experience, which connects to a broader theme. Namely, that being a gay grown up is miles better than being a gay teen.
I appreciate it.
If sex really sold, then every single advertisement everywhere for everything would have people getting it on, and the most successful ad campaigns of all time would involve sex. They don't, and they don't. It's almost as if "sex sells" is a slogan thrown around by lazy ad guys - hey, can't think of a clever tagline, so I'll put in T&A.
And we've been over the hot lesbian chicks issue. Repeatedly. It's nonsense. Do you really think there is a correlation between guys who have stacks of lesbian porn on their hard drives and positive attitudes about homosexuals, let alone gay marriage? I get that you want to see ads with chicks making out, but c'mon.
Speaking from personal experience, no, the 'lesbian' label does not mean 'homosexual' to an awful lot of straight people. It just means 'really into chicks.' Do you really think out lesbians never get hit on by straight men, or never get a hostile reaction when they explain that 'lesbian' means something other than 'sure, I'd love to have a hot threesome with you and your girlfriend'? And you're making a rather large leap to assume that people follow this train of logic: I find two feminine women making out totally hot, therefore I accept homosexuality, therefore I believe homosexuals should have full civil rights.
Melkster: I think it's perfect as is. Go you.
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Yes, if there's one thing I associate Katy Perry with, it's her message of tolerance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUxJVcz1aV8
I called the Opinion and Letters editors, left voice mails, and wrote e-mails to them. We'll see if they pick it up.
I've found that McDonald's (at least a lot of McDonald's) makes chicks not want to sleep with you, so it would just be false advertising.
Bolded for fuck yeah
To be fair, my ex-girlfriend fell into that category. Kind of sort of stole her from her girlfriend. Granted, it was more like she just gravitated toward me, but still. Her ex wasn't happy about it, and took revenge by stealing both of our sketchbooks.
Also, that's a damn good read Melkster.
Only two replies were A) What about suicide from OTHER things, huh? And proceeded into shalmtzy rant about love and What about MILITARY deaths, huh? The media never covers those!
I kinda lost it and went a bit into angry rant mode there.
That 'category' is bisexual.
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Did you remind them that people being bullied for being timid and people being bullied for being in the Marines isn't really common or in some cases considered SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE?
Yeah, they're like thunderstorms or earthquakes or car accidents. They happen all the time, no point in trying to stop them, right?
Oh god I can't remember. I usually break it out for libertarians, but it seemed relevant. I'll give googling the quote a shot.
EDIT for success: Economics by Krugman and Wells
I see they're getting back to their roots. Today they'd say the same thing with some free market arglebargle thrown in.
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He never said anything beyond "Being gay is a sin," but it's so damn tasteless to post that shit and the hypocrisy of his love 'n' hugs bullshit shines through.
whos this now?
Some asshole on Rorus' facebook.
Figured it could hurt the box office take for the movie, but I guess "facebook guy" can actually mean a lot of people.
That's fantastic. Depending on the paper though, they might be hesitant to publish something that takes that many swipes at religion. On the otherhand, the points about religious teachings being largely intolerant is motherfucking spot on.
Sadly, they don't publish 'open letters,' so they had to change the tone of the whole thing. Hopefully it still retains it's original feeling.