I'm not super happy about the Hobbit situation either - I think the Union (which is affiliated to the Australian equivalent) has really messed this up as well as Time Warner and I think the government is going to use this high profile case (along with a potential teacher strike) to really mess with employment law - I'd also note that we are about 10 years since the last big reform as well, as these things have happened roughly every ten years for a bit.
Which bugs the crap out of me I must say, as the Hobbit was one of my two or three all time favourites growing up. My parents had found a beautifully illustrated edition in the 1980s which I read so much it has almost fallen apart.
The other movies weren't as great as people make them out to be.
I keep seeing this, and at the risk of derailing the thread I would ask: "How so?"
It seems like popular backlash, more than anything else.
It is probably just a matter of hype. There was so much hype that it made expectations overshoot reality. I mean, they are fine. They are just not great.
Yeah, you didn't answer my question.
I understand you think they weren't great. I'm just curious as to why.
I'm not being augmentative, I'm genuinely curious. I've heard this a fair amount, but I've never heard anyone support it.
Kalkino have you been following all the stuff national has been trying to do? I haven't been paying super close attention, but I recall hearing mention of something like 'no unions allowed unless employers agree', which seems like a monumentally awful idea.
Was wondering something--I can only assume that they'll bring back Andy Serkis as Gollum, yes? Please say yes?
I'd like to see a gollum more akin to the one in the old 70s animation.
Dunno if you've watched it or not, but in the extended edition of Return of the King they had more development of Smeagol's transformation into Gollum--would any of those renditions be more to liking?
Well Gollum's hundreds of years old, and the time period between The Hobbit and LotR is, relativley speaking, rather short (55 years?), so I'd assume that Gollum in the Hobbit would look the same as Gollum in LotR.
60 years. And I agree. Honestly if they got Andy to reprise Gollum and they used the same motion capture technology I would prefer it if he were almost the same in appearance as he was in LotR. Maybe some minor differences.
Your math is bad.
He turns 50 during the barrel ride. The Fellowship opens 61 years later but Frodo doesn't leave for another 17, so Gollum is 78 years older.
Kalkino have you been following all the stuff national has been trying to do? I haven't been paying super close attention, but I recall hearing mention of something like 'no unions allowed unless employers agree', which seems like a monumentally awful idea.
Not closely yet, but I plan to remedy that lack this week.
Re: Gollum's age - the ring also keeps him from ageing at the same rate as others, but post-The Hobbit he doesn't have the ring any more. I wouldn't want him to look quite as different as he did in the sequence at the beginning of Return of the King (Extended Edition), but he shouldn't look exactly as he does in the regular sequences either.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.
There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.
If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.
Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.
There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.
If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.
Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike
Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.
There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.
If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.
Yeah I googled around after that post, that's what I get for assuming what mum said was right.
The greens could play this well to people who are already sympathetic, but I'm not sure about that.
is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.
I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect
That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.
is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.
I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect
That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.
Is this from any particular source? I hadn't heard this as a possibility (not saying its not). Not sure how I feel about it; similar trepidation as my feelings for filming in 3-D I guess.
Jackson, who directed all three “Lord of the Rings” films, will helm the two films back-to-back, telling the story of “The Hobbit” in two parts. Jackson will utilize groundbreaking visual effects and his incomparable story-telling to bring J.R.R. Tolkien’s novel to the big screen. Both Hobbit movies will be filmed in Digital 3-D, using the latest camera and stereo technology to create a high quality, comfortable viewing experience. Jackson also co-wrote the screenplays with Fran Walsh, Phillipa Boyens and Guillermo del Toro.
Still, it might be a broad interpretation of "Hobbit films". But it might work out alright as well. 3-D I don't really care for.
Colanut on
0
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
is it one movie that's the book and one that's in between hobbit and lotr? I remember reading that a looong time ago.
I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect
That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.
Is this from any particular source? I hadn't heard this as a possibility (not saying its not). Not sure how I feel about it; similar trepidation as my feelings for filming in 3-D I guess.
Jackson, who directed all three “Lord of the Rings” films, will helm the two films back-to-back, telling the story of “The Hobbit” in two parts. Jackson will utilize groundbreaking visual effects and his incomparable story-telling to bring J.R.R. Tolkien’s novel to the big screen. Both Hobbit movies will be filmed in Digital 3-D, using the latest camera and stereo technology to create a high quality, comfortable viewing experience. Jackson also co-wrote the screenplays with Fran Walsh, Phillipa Boyens and Guillermo del Toro.
Still, it might be a broad interpretation of "Hobbit films". But it might work out alright as well. 3-D I don't really care for.
This is from over a year ago, but as far as I know it's still the plan.
“We’ve decided to have The Hobbit span the two movies, including the White Council and the comings and goings of Gandalf to Dol Guldur,”
Ah, thank you. I hadn't seen that. Probably because I started paying attention after all the studio/director/actors drama. I'm warming to the larger, merged story. Though, I was hoping for a more light hearted adventure movie (like the book) for the first, with a second movie moving towards a more "serious" bridge to LotR. My kid will be 8 by the time this is out so maybe that is coloring my expectations.
Colanut on
0
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
Ah, thank you. I hadn't seen that. Probably because I started paying attention after all the studio/director/actors drama. I'm warming to the larger, merged story. Though, I was hoping for a more light hearted adventure movie (like the book) for the first, with a second movie moving towards a more "serious" bridge to LotR. My kid will be 8 by the time this is out so maybe that is coloring my expectations.
Until someone says otherwise, I'd expect The Hobbit to be on a similar maturity level as the rest of the LOTR films.
Given that there's probably going to be a lot of talky-talk with Gandalf's comings and goings behind the scenes with the Council and whatnot, plus Smaug destroying everything and the Battle of Five Armies, it's probably going to be a bit grown up.
But hey, there's always the Rankin-Bass films for your kid to enjoy.
EDIT: I could definitely see Fassbender as either Bard or Beorn. I agree, he's really really good and has the look of a Middle-Earth man. Maybe we'll get Tennat as King Thranduil. It'd be a nice counter as a wood elf to Weaving's high elf Elrond.
I was under the impression that the wood elf king wasn't actually a wood elf, but a high elf. Also thought he was Legolas's father, so I could be mixing him up with an entirely different character. Not that I wouldn't mind seeing Tennant somewhere, mind you...
The whole actors union thing is such a clusterfuck.
Fallingman on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
Options
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
The Gollum thing:
Ok, he'd been without his precious for years and had been, you know, tortured for an inhuman length of time by unspeakable darkness. So I can accept he'd look different in the Hobbit.
But he still spent the majority of his lifespan living in a sunless cave eating raw fish. I seem to recall in the LOTR movies we got to see him relishing in his diet of choice with a dentist's nightmare for teeth.
I...suppose they could make him pudgier or something?
Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.
There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.
If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.
Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike
Yeah, it only takes a few idiots to ruin a good thing.
L|ama: Chances are, anyone that are actually backing the union are already staunch Labour or Green supporters anyway. The only thing this is going to do is drive 'independents' away from Labour, because Actors Equity were run by incompetent morons.
Anyway, good news:
Filming of The Hobbit will stay in New Zealand after an agreement was reached between the Government and studio executives at a crisis meeting today.
Prime Minister John Key has just made the announcement at a press conference at the Beehive.
Mr Key, senior cabinet ministers and officials met Warner Bros representatives at Premier House in Wellington today for a second day of talks.
The major sticking point during negotiations appeared to be what financial incentives the Government could offer Warner Bros to keep the $670 million production here.
The studio had also been worried about ambiguities in New Zealand employment law and the threat of disruption due to union action.
Time Warner are requesting that we change our employment law so that they film it here in New Zealand. What an utter load of bullshit.
There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.
If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.
Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike
Yeah, it only takes a few idiots to ruin a good thing.
L|ama: Chances are, anyone that are actually backing the union are already staunch Labour or Green supporters anyway. The only thing this is going to do is drive 'independents' away from Labour, because Actors Equity were run by incompetent morons.
Anyway, good news:
Filming of The Hobbit will stay in New Zealand after an agreement was reached between the Government and studio executives at a crisis meeting today.
Prime Minister John Key has just made the announcement at a press conference at the Beehive.
Mr Key, senior cabinet ministers and officials met Warner Bros representatives at Premier House in Wellington today for a second day of talks.
The major sticking point during negotiations appeared to be what financial incentives the Government could offer Warner Bros to keep the $670 million production here.
The studio had also been worried about ambiguities in New Zealand employment law and the threat of disruption due to union action.
So they came for a rebate of $15 mill per film and unspecified law changes to Employment law? Interesting
Edit - HAHAHA - the reporter just asked Key something along the lines of "If we change our employment law at the behest of Warner Brothers do we come out of this with any dignity?"
Kalkino on
Freedom for the Northern Isles!
0
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Good. Now we can finally move on as planned. Who's left to cast?
Beorn - Michael Fassbender?
Bard - ?
Thranduil - David Tennant?
Elrond - hopefully Hugo Weaving
Ori, Nori, Bofur, and Bifur - ?
The town master - ?
Bolg - ?
That's not many. Hopefully this union thing was the final roadblock to progress, and we'll get an announcement soon. Don't hold your breath, however; Viggo Mortensen didn't join the cast until two weeks after start of photography, when his part had to be recast.
Atomika on
0
Options
DHSChase lizards.....bark at donkeys..Registered Userregular
Good. Now we can finally move on as planned. Who's left to cast?
Beorn - Michael Fassbender?
Bard - ?
Thranduil - David Tennant?
Elrond - hopefully Hugo Weaving
Ori, Nori, Bofur, and Bifur - ?
The town master - ?
Bolg - ?
That's not many. Hopefully this union thing was the final roadblock to progress, and we'll get an announcement soon. Don't hold your breath, however; Viggo Mortensen didn't join the cast until two weeks after start of photography, when his part had to be recast.
The Voice of Smaug: Bill Nighy? Brian Cox?
Thror and Thrain: I imagine there will be flashbacks, and Gandalf does get the map from Thrain in the Necromancer's dungeon.
Radaghast: If they adapt material from the Appendices, Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, he'll show up.
Saruman: If Radaghast he'd have to be, hopefully Christopher Lee, but who knows if he can still make the trip to New Zealand.
The Necromancer: I'm not really sure what they're gonna do here.
Gwaihir, Eagles: Dunno
The Trolls
Most of the other roles left are just voices, so those might not be forthcoming.
DHS on
"Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
I enjoy all of Tolkien's works but wasn't particularly enthused by the LOTR movies - they were alright, nothing special. I have higher hopes for a Hobbit movie; I think the story is a lot better suited for a film than the LOTR trilogy was. The only thing that worries me is the notion of splitting it up into two parts and adding all the extra stuff about the Necromancer and the White Council and so forth. Isn't that likely to muck up the pacing and distract from the main story? I'd rather see one well-crafted movie than two less interesting ones.
I am a lot less interested in this without Guillermo at the helm. I though he was the perfect director for this film. Jackson has a way of making actors seem uninteresting.
I can't quite fathom how anyone can doubt Jackson's ability to helm these films after what he did with LoTR, it is entirely beyond me. He has already proved(with what, 10? oscars) that he has envisioned a fantastic middle earth, and translated a literary great into film when many would have thought it impossible.
Tlex, you're acting as if Jackson is infallible. While he did some magnificent work, he also had certain weak points, e.g. increasingly turning Gimli into comic relief only, going over the top when a more subtle touch would have been better (e.g. the avalanche of skulls in Return of the Kings), his tendency to slip from pathos into bathos and Wagnerian kitsch especially in the third film. I definitely felt that he became somewhat over-confident in the way the third movie is put together: editing, VFX, characterisation.
Thirith on
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
You're right on all points. However due to the aforementioned magnificent work there isn't anyone that I would rather see making this film. Del Toro wasn't a great loss.
Tlex on
0
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I am a lot less interested in this without Guillermo at the helm. I though he was the perfect director for this film. Jackson has a way of making actors seem uninteresting.
I would agree that del Toro gets better performances out of his actors, but I wouldn't say much better, as Jackson does a pretty decent job. Jackson isn't as subtle as del Toro, that's the biggest difference.
But del Toro has a nasty habit of letting the story get away from him, and putting much more emphasis on the tactility of the world within the movie than on tone and character. I really thought having both Jackson and del Toro together on the project was a great idea, as they complemented each other's faults but bolstered each other's strengths. However, if I had to choose just one of them to work on the project, it would indeed be Jackson.
Ahhh good! A thread dedicated too the Hobbit does exist! Just got into Lord of the Rings Online... and I'm am on Middle-earth crack again! I cannot wait for the Hobbit films, and have just dedicated the last hour to catching up on what the fuck is going on.
Good to hear it's all on-track
and glad to hear Jackson and not Del Toro is on the job. I think Del Toro is the man and makes some great films, but I just had a bad feeling about him directing the Hobbit. And while the guy is brilliant when it comes to visuals he's made enough average films (the Hellboys) to make me not fully trust him. Jackson has his weaknesses to be sure... but I wouldn't trust anyone else!
Not a single one strikes me as proper casting. They just look absolutely nothing like dwarves. Hopefully they slap some major makeup on them pretty faces.
This image proves its possible I guess..
Although I hate to say it, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to sexy up the dwarves. But I understand it as much as I hate it, more sex appeal would mean more $$$. A movie staring a bunch of ugly dwarfs and a chunky hobbit would certainly be missing it's Orlando/Viggo panty soaking draw.
SIGH!
Wishpig on
WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
0
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
To be fair, if you told me that Sallah would make an awesome Gimli, I would have thought you were crazy.
Also, this is WETA Workshop.
Fencingsax on
0
Options
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I had no idea...
BILL NIGHY – THE VOICE OF SMAUG
...oh my god
also all the casting looks great to me to be honest. any given one of them could probably be older but make up can do some amazing things.
The surprise gift they gave out to everyone who sat through the entire trilogy (extended editions, for the first two!) when Return of the King came out.
Posts
Here are more stories on the Hobbit industrial dispute
Yeah, you didn't answer my question.
I understand you think they weren't great. I'm just curious as to why.
I'm not being augmentative, I'm genuinely curious. I've heard this a fair amount, but I've never heard anyone support it.
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
Your math is bad.
He turns 50 during the barrel ride. The Fellowship opens 61 years later but Frodo doesn't leave for another 17, so Gollum is 78 years older.
Not closely yet, but I plan to remedy that lack this week.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
There's no indication at all Warner requested that. I'm iffy on National making changes as well but we'll see what happens.
If anyone comes out of this situation looking good though, it'll be National. This is a PR nightmare for the unions and Labour and the Greens will be dragged down with them through association.
Yup. There are a lot of people who regret the repeal of the Employment Contracts Act in 2001( or was it 99?) and who, despite a very quiet 15 years for industrial relations are of the firm belief unions undermine the economy. I think they were already keen to review the law further and now they have a great excuse. Which is not unlike what is happening in the UK with the BA strike
Yeah I googled around after that post, that's what I get for assuming what mum said was right.
The greens could play this well to people who are already sympathetic, but I'm not sure about that.
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
Yep.
In 3-D!
I will also restate a vote for a different looking gollum. pre torture, pre losing the ring which would have a huge effect
That was an early idea, but I'm fairly certain the plan now is to tell The Hobbit over two movies, with both movies being heavily embellished by events occurring at or around the same time, as stated in the Indices.
Is this from any particular source? I hadn't heard this as a possibility (not saying its not). Not sure how I feel about it; similar trepidation as my feelings for filming in 3-D I guess.
Edit: there is this ambiguous statement:
Still, it might be a broad interpretation of "Hobbit films". But it might work out alright as well. 3-D I don't really care for.
This is from over a year ago, but as far as I know it's still the plan.
link
Informed insight? Or hopeful speculation? I guess we'll know soon; production starts in a little over three months.
Until someone says otherwise, I'd expect The Hobbit to be on a similar maturity level as the rest of the LOTR films.
Given that there's probably going to be a lot of talky-talk with Gandalf's comings and goings behind the scenes with the Council and whatnot, plus Smaug destroying everything and the Battle of Five Armies, it's probably going to be a bit grown up.
But hey, there's always the Rankin-Bass films for your kid to enjoy.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't a noldor.
source: Battle for Middle Earth 2
Yeah they didn't get the level up from being in the land of bliss.
Steam | Twitter
Ok, he'd been without his precious for years and had been, you know, tortured for an inhuman length of time by unspeakable darkness. So I can accept he'd look different in the Hobbit.
But he still spent the majority of his lifespan living in a sunless cave eating raw fish. I seem to recall in the LOTR movies we got to see him relishing in his diet of choice with a dentist's nightmare for teeth.
I...suppose they could make him pudgier or something?
L|ama: Chances are, anyone that are actually backing the union are already staunch Labour or Green supporters anyway. The only thing this is going to do is drive 'independents' away from Labour, because Actors Equity were run by incompetent morons.
Anyway, good news: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10683486
So they came for a rebate of $15 mill per film and unspecified law changes to Employment law? Interesting
Edit - HAHAHA - the reporter just asked Key something along the lines of "If we change our employment law at the behest of Warner Brothers do we come out of this with any dignity?"
Beorn - Michael Fassbender?
Bard - ?
Thranduil - David Tennant?
Elrond - hopefully Hugo Weaving
Ori, Nori, Bofur, and Bifur - ?
The town master - ?
Bolg - ?
That's not many. Hopefully this union thing was the final roadblock to progress, and we'll get an announcement soon. Don't hold your breath, however; Viggo Mortensen didn't join the cast until two weeks after start of photography, when his part had to be recast.
The Voice of Smaug: Bill Nighy? Brian Cox?
Thror and Thrain: I imagine there will be flashbacks, and Gandalf does get the map from Thrain in the Necromancer's dungeon.
Radaghast: If they adapt material from the Appendices, Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, he'll show up.
Saruman: If Radaghast he'd have to be, hopefully Christopher Lee, but who knows if he can still make the trip to New Zealand.
The Necromancer: I'm not really sure what they're gonna do here.
Gwaihir, Eagles: Dunno
The Trolls
Most of the other roles left are just voices, so those might not be forthcoming.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I would agree that del Toro gets better performances out of his actors, but I wouldn't say much better, as Jackson does a pretty decent job. Jackson isn't as subtle as del Toro, that's the biggest difference.
But del Toro has a nasty habit of letting the story get away from him, and putting much more emphasis on the tactility of the world within the movie than on tone and character. I really thought having both Jackson and del Toro together on the project was a great idea, as they complemented each other's faults but bolstered each other's strengths. However, if I had to choose just one of them to work on the project, it would indeed be Jackson.
Good to hear it's all on-track
and glad to hear Jackson and not Del Toro is on the job. I think Del Toro is the man and makes some great films, but I just had a bad feeling about him directing the Hobbit. And while the guy is brilliant when it comes to visuals he's made enough average films (the Hellboys) to make me not fully trust him. Jackson has his weaknesses to be sure... but I wouldn't trust anyone else!
What I don't get is some of the casting choices!
Heres a great site to match up faces to the names you already know!
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2010/10/21/39468-meet-your-hobbit-cast/
Thorin, Kili, and Fili...
WTF?
Not a single one strikes me as proper casting. They just look absolutely nothing like dwarves. Hopefully they slap some major makeup on them pretty faces.
This image proves its possible I guess..
Although I hate to say it, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to sexy up the dwarves. But I understand it as much as I hate it, more sex appeal would mean more $$$. A movie staring a bunch of ugly dwarfs and a chunky hobbit would certainly be missing it's Orlando/Viggo panty soaking draw.
SIGH!
Image by Sharpwriter on deviantart.com
Also, this is WETA Workshop.
BILL NIGHY – THE VOICE OF SMAUG
...oh my god
also all the casting looks great to me to be honest. any given one of them could probably be older but make up can do some amazing things.
The surprise gift they gave out to everyone who sat through the entire trilogy (extended editions, for the first two!) when Return of the King came out.
Man, I can't wait for the Hobbit.