Has no one ever hit a friend in the arm with a "What the fuck???" before? I have a feeling this is what she was going for, and her bad aim and the enclosed space may have resulted in a slug in the collarbone.
And yes, their is a giant difference between a man and a woman doing this. That's society. Deal with it. She didn't punch him in the face, she slugged him in the chest after he "betrayed her trust".
People saying "OMG, this is abuse!!! Get out!!! Call the police!!!" need to reevaluate a little.
If you want to make it work, have a good long talk with her and see about attending counseling sessions. That's about it.
You can pretty much ignore this entire thing as terrible advice.
I think if a significant other hits you hard enough to cause physical and emotional pain, there is at least the potential for a lot of harm in the future, no matter which gender does it.
I think if a significant other hits you hard enough to cause physical and emotional pain, there is at least the potential for a lot of harm in the future, no matter which gender does it.
This is very true. Whether or not it was a joke, it hurt you both physically and emotionally and shouldn't be taken lightly.
And I didn't get a chance to touch on this in my last post, but the fact that she completely nutted out when you went to hang out with friends says a lot. I love spending time with my boyfriend, to the point where we're with each other ALL the time and I still look forward to spending more time with him, but if he wanted to go out and hang with his buddies, I wouldn't think anything of it. Everyone needs social interaction.
Does she not trust you, and think you're going to run off with the first girl you see? Her co-dependency should have been a huge red flag before you got married, though you obviously notice it now.
After all of this, I believe you really need to shack up with a good lawyer, and get yourself out of this mess. OR, your wife needs to get some SERIOUS therapy, and you both need to go to a marriage counselor.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Has no one ever hit a friend in the arm with a "What the fuck???" before? I have a feeling this is what she was going for, and her bad aim and the enclosed space may have resulted in a slug in the collarbone.
And yes, their is a giant difference between a man and a woman doing this. That's society. Deal with it. She didn't punch him in the face, she slugged him in the chest after he "betrayed her trust".
People saying "OMG, this is abuse!!! Get out!!! Call the police!!!" need to reevaluate a little.
If you want to make it work, have a good long talk with her and see about attending counseling sessions. That's about it.
You can pretty much ignore this entire thing as terrible advice.
You can indeed, absolutely awful. There is no excuse.
I can tell you all about a bad relationship sneaking up on you, and just being too close to see it all. Honestly, I do not think you should stay. If you decide you want to try to work things out with her, I really think you should consider finding another place to stay until you've both had a considerable amount of therapy, and this is at the very least. If hitting you isn't the line, what is? Seriously, where is it?
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Has no one ever hit a friend in the arm with a "What the fuck???" before? I have a feeling this is what she was going for, and her bad aim and the enclosed space may have resulted in a slug in the collarbone.
And yes, their is a giant difference between a man and a woman doing this. That's society. Deal with it. She didn't punch him in the face, she slugged him in the chest after he "betrayed her trust".
People saying "OMG, this is abuse!!! Get out!!! Call the police!!!" need to reevaluate a little.
If you want to make it work, have a good long talk with her and see about attending counseling sessions. That's about it.
You can pretty much ignore this entire thing as terrible advice.
You can indeed, absolutely awful. There is no excuse.
I can tell you all about a bad relationship sneaking up on you, and just being too close to see it all. Honestly, I do not think you should stay. If you decide you want to try to work things out with her, I really think you should consider finding another place to stay until you've both had a considerable amount of therapy, and this is at the very least. If hitting you isn't the line, what is? Seriously, where is it?
Societal norms. They go both ways. Because we (society as a whole in general) see things like a woman hitting a man as "not abusive" or not as worthy of concern, then it becomes ingrained into the feminine psyche as wel. Thus, she doesn't see (or mean for) the hit to be something of serious consequence. Not that this is an excuse by any means, but again, I hardly think this particular incident is as serious as people are making it out to be.
The rest of the relationship is a little bonkers, that's why I said to go seek counseling if he wants to make it work. I don't think he needs to move out though for that. That will only strain things more.
Regardless of whether or not you perceive her being physically violent to him to be a problem, it's still assault
In grown-up land, that has consequences, some of which include the victim's right to get the fuck out of there ASAP, and to get the authorities involved if he thinks its a good idea (and it is, trust me)
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited October 2010
If you haven't learned by the time you're through preschool that it is not acceptable to hit someone so hard they bruise, societal norms are not on your side. I do not want to see that peddled in here again.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Regardless of whether or not you perceive her being physically violent to him to be a problem, it's still assault
In grown-up land, that has consequences, some of which include the victim's right to get the fuck out of there ASAP, and to get the authorities involved if he thinks its a good idea (and it is, trust me)
Yes, it is (I never argued this), and it's up to him to decide whether to report it as such. Were it me in this situation, I'd write it off, and if it happened again, I'd leave. I'd certainly not report a punch to the chest to the police unless this was part of some sort of vicious cycle that I couldn't escape from. Let me stress this, AS A MAN. Were I a woman, yes, I'd report this. Double standard? Sure, then again, the world isn't fair.
If he wants to completely destroy any chances he has with this woman, then yes, he should go ahead and report it to the police. Has he actually said whether he wants to give this another chance or not? We're tossing around a lot of advice without knowing where he wants to take this.
EDIT: Scratch that. Rereading he wants to do therapy. I think if he was really that concerned about it (escalating into something actually dangerous or life threatening) he would have done it right away. Talk it out with her and your therapist together. Reporting this will only widen the gap.
Report it to the police. She could have broken your collarbone if she hit it in the right spot.
Or, next time she goes for the jaw, and breaks that.
Or she escalates when she feels that the punching you in the collarbone isn't working, and upgrades to physical, blunty objects.
She bruised you. If you try to restrain her arms when she goes to do it again, you'll bruise her arm - which is where double standards would start working against you, and she could easily claim that you were restraining her and she punched you in the neck to escape.
And it doesn't matter how calm you think you are, it could be a straw breaking the camel's back situation and you could blow up and slug her in a momentary lapse of judgement.
Call the police and get it documented. If she's willing to hit you like that, she's willing to hit your future kids like that.
There may have been a healthy relationship there at one time, but right now there isn't and her attitude as the OP's described it sounds like she's perfectly content to keep it that way
Her manipulative behavior (limiting friends, obsessively checking the bank account, etc) and physical violence aren't about having or keeping a relationship, they're about control
How can you have a viable, fulfilling, mutually beneficial relationship with someone who wants to control you?
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
If you haven't learned by the time you're through preschool that it is not acceptable to hit someone so hard they bruise, societal norms are not on your side. I do not want to see that peddled in here again.
Did I miss the part where he said that she left a bruise? Because if I didn't, you should probably correct that because people are already taking what you just said there and running with it. Misinformation in a case like this is not a good thing.
Winding up and punching will result in a bruise 99% of the time, and even if it somehow did not, the intent was still there. It wasn't a playful punch. Pulling your arm back and following through means "I want you to be harmed".
Your solution to societal norms is to sit back and take it? Screw that. I'm sorry that your masculinity is so fragile that it won't let you think this is a serious issue. Not everyone has the same issues as you.
If someone you're in a relationship with punches you -- whether it bruises you or not, you get out. Not only does it indicate a lack of respect for you, it indicates a lack of control and ability to communicate in any meaningful way. It is a regression from her seeing you as a person to her seeing you as just a tool in her own emotional needs.
Even without the physical violence, this is a bad situation.
I'm really glad to hear you want to get in on therapy, but honestly, I think you should stay somewhere else while this whole ordeal goes on. You're obviously realizing a lot of things you missed before by being too close to the situation. Give yourself a chance to step back and see your life without her. It will only make her control over your life and time seem more apparent.
Esh, maybe you should read that link I posted and compare it to all the behaviour that Wild has posted.
When you combine a pattern of manipulative behaviour with possible physical violence, then you've got an abusive relationship, regardless of whatever combination of genders are involved.
I never said the entire relationship wasn't abusive, I just said flying off the handle about getting slugged like that is a little much.
Besides, we're only getting one side of the story here. Take everything with a grain of salt. Like I said, they should probably look into counseling, if she's not willing, then he should probably leave her. But he shouldn't go running for the hills and calling the police about it.
I look forward to your posts in the future telling female forumers to stay with their male partners after having been hit and not take it too seriously after a pattern of abusive behaviour by their partner.
Esh, maybe you should read that link I posted and compare it to all the behaviour that Wild has posted.
When you combine a pattern of manipulative behaviour with possible physical violence, then you've got an abusive relationship, regardless of whatever combination of genders are involved.
I never said the entire relationship wasn't abusive, I just said flying off the handle about getting slugged like that is a little much.
Besides, we're only getting one side of the story here. Take everything with a grain of salt. Like I said, they should probably look into counseling, if she's not willing, then he should probably leave her. But he shouldn't go running for the hills and calling the police about it.
I look forward to your posts in the future telling female forumers to stay with their male partners after having been hit and not take it too seriously after a pattern of abusive behaviour by their partner.
Well, he did say that there is a double standard and it's not the same thing for women.
Which I don't agree with. As everyone else in this thread doesn't.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
If you haven't learned by the time you're through preschool that it is not acceptable to hit someone so hard they bruise, societal norms are not on your side. I do not want to see that peddled in here again.
Did I miss the part where he said that she left a bruise? Because if I didn't, you should probably correct that because people are already taking what you just said there and running with it. Misinformation in a case like this is not a good thing.
You are correct, he did not specify that, and that is my bad. But while we're on the subject of reading comprehension, I do believe that I said you should leave the double standard outside. So you should think very carefully about failing to do so in the future.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
edited October 2010
If I may suggest that for the time being, perhaps she should stay with others. If you chose to attempt to salvage the relationship that's fine, but being in a position where a poor therapy session can leave you in danger of retaliatory violence can be a hindrance for the therapy, as well as a potential danger to your self. It can also be harder to break certain emotional patterns with constant exposure, particularly if you have no time to yourself.
Sounds to me like a trial separation might be a good idea. If you can't see why its worth saving the relationship, a trial separation would allow you to get perspective on whether you want to stay or not.
I also second saving your own money.
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Rear Admiral ChocoI wanna be an owl, Jerry!Owl York CityRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
The fact that she reared back and slugged you is fucking awful. Try to help her if you really feel you should, but I'd crash somewhere else until you're sure she's a little more... stable from whatever help she gets.
I mean, shit. If it were me, I'd be packing up or at the very least seriously considering it.
She hit you. She admitted she wants control of you.
That is not a healthy relationship, and is honestly pretty disgusting of her.
I have been slugged in the chest by 2 or 3 girlfriends. This happenend with breakups or me admitting to some act of philandry. In all cases they were in emotional distress. Sometimes people will go for non-verbal communication.
I am with Esh on this one.
But the hitting aside.
You have to ask yourself: am I in a relationship of equals? Is your long-term happiness assured if you jump through all the psych hoops? Are you staying with her out of compassion or love?
Will she ever be able to get a job, raise kids etc?
I think you friends are in the GTFO camp, so I will side with them. You can help her better as a friend then as her significant other. She has to work out her issues and be happy with herself before she can be happy with anyone else. If you dont get out you will always be her crutch.
This is not a case of her hitting him because he cheated on her. She hit him because she felt her control over him was threatened by him going to his friends for advice on how to deal with her bullshit. She's manipulative and petty and now edging into physical violence. She's been accustomed to not having to contribute at all financially and now she's scared of having to go to work. This situation is deeply fucked up, and (like many others in similar situations) you're suddenly gaining the perspective that this is not ok. The fact that you've put up with this behavior so far doesn't make it ok, or mean that you should try at all costs to fix this. It just means that you've finally been able to see how fucked up your relationship has become. I sincerely hope you'll at least separate. There's a chance that if you leave her, she might finally realize it's time to grow up and perhaps be honestly willing to change.
However I honestly don't think you should stay together at this time and hope for that change. As long as you don't take a stand, you're basically telling her that the world she's built is more or less safe and she can keep exerting control over you. Get away from her for the time being. Look after your finances so she doesn't clean you out in the mean time. This could get very ugly, but this problem isn't going to magically go away if you just decide to give her another chance.
You know something's very wrong and has been for a while, now it's time to act.
WildEEP, first of all let me say you're not stupid for missing the signs of this. I know they may seem blatantly obvious to you now in hindsight, but when they occured they were subtle. A little here, a little there, slowly building up. Google the 'boiling frog', it's a metaphore that is often used in these types of situations because it quite aptly describes the slow build up to critical consequences.
I've been where you are dude. I know EXACTLY what you're going through right now. You love her, you care about her, you want to fix the problems and make things better. Part of you feels like if you can just figure out the right thing to do, it'll fix things, and you and she can be happy. Another part of you knows this is wrong. Your relationship is wrong, and has been wrong for a very long time, you just didn't know why until she hit you. And that puts a word to what she has been doing to you for years: Abuse.
She is an abuser. She abuses. And she's not going to stop. Sure, she could get months/years of extremely intensive counsiling, but 95% of the time that doesn't work, it would just teach her how to become a better abuser. You could go to couples counsiling, but any issues you might bring up to her there you are going to pay for later, trust me on that. She'll act nice for a while, maybe even act perfect, this is called a 'peak'. But she'll decent to the floor of a 'valley' soon enough, and she will hit you again. Probably harder, possibly with a weapon. You have to get out before that happens.
I know you feel like you are responsible for her, that you can't leave or else bad things will happen to her and it would be your fault, but this is WRONG. She is not your responsibility, and she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself, she just isn't, because she wants you to do it for her. She'll weep and cry, and probably threaten to hurt herself if you try to leave. Just more attempts to control and emotionally abuse you.
You need to get out WildEEP. You need to get out now before things get worse. And they WILL get worse.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
WildEEP, first of all let me say you're not stupid for missing the signs of this. I know they may seem blatantly obvious to you now in hindsight, but when they occured they were subtle. A little here, a little there, slowly building up. Google the 'boiling frog', it's a metaphore that is often used in these types of situations because it quite aptly describes the slow build up to critical consequences.
I've been where you are dude. I know EXACTLY what you're going through right now. You love her, you care about her, you want to fix the problems and make things better. Part of you feels like if you can just figure out the right thing to do, it'll fix things, and you and she can be happy. Another part of you knows this is wrong. Your relationship is wrong, and has been wrong for a very long time, you just didn't know why until she hit you. And that puts a word to what she has been doing to you for years: Abuse.
She is an abuser. She abuses. And she's not going to stop. Sure, she could get months/years of extremely intensive counsiling, but 95% of the time that doesn't work, it would just teach her how to become a better abuser. You could go to couples counsiling, but any issues you might bring up to her there you are going to pay for later, trust me on that. She'll act nice for a while, maybe even act perfect, this is called a 'peak'. But she'll decent to the floor of a 'valley' soon enough, and she will hit you again. Probably harder, possibly with a weapon. You have to get out before that happens.
I know you feel like you are responsible for her, that you can't leave or else bad things will happen to her and it would be your fault, but this is WRONG. She is not your responsibility, and she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself, she just isn't, because she wants you to do it for her. She'll weep and cry, and probably threaten to hurt herself if you try to leave. Just more attempts to control and emotionally abuse you.
You need to get out WildEEP. You need to get out now before things get worse. And they WILL get worse.
You know, I recommended talking to her again and perhaps going to couples therapy on the first page. But after reading this, I believe I was wrong.
Decomposey's post? /thread
ChillyWilly on
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I think therapy might be worth trying, but only the OP can say for sure. Apparently group therapy is actually supposed to be more successful for abusers then one on one therapy, but honestly, your own safety comes first and, as others have said, if she's not willing to seek help on her own then it doesn't matter, because the therapy will ultimately fail.
If you want to even try and salvage anything from this relationship, and honestly, no one would blame you if you didn't, then I would first remove yourself from the situation. Go see if you can live with a friend for a while, or stay with family. Then try therapy while you are separated from your wife. She may be more inclined to take it seriously at that point. However, if you are planning on trying to make it work, don't do it out of a sense of obligation or guilt.
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When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
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My appt with the shrink is tomorrow morning.... I'm feeling really ashamed. I had to call in for the appt - they dont let you make behavior health appts over the web. They wanna ask you questions..and just answering the advice nurse about why I was calling, that my wife went nuts and attacked me, was so humilitating I couldnt stand up..I had to sit on my office floor to finish the call.
Esh, man I understand what you're saying - that hey..physical doesnt automatically mean violence. I've had lots of friends slug me in the arm or palm the back of my head because I made a smartassed comment. You tell it by context - close relationships = lower physical barriers = safety to trade humerous touch. Its commonly how male friends exchange touch without it being considered caressing.
Only problem is . . . thats not what happened.
I've gone over and over it in my head...and the part that wont leave..the part I've been crushed by every time I think about it is how she looked when she did it. Her eyes were so full of hate and anger...god it hurt so much to see that. To have that directed at you by someone you care so much for is about the worst feeling I think I've ever had.
The past two days I've nightmared over it...that look. I dont know if I'll ever be able to therapy my way past it. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.
Thanks for the posts..and the well wishes, its just nice to find a place to vent when I need to and get a take on things from other folks.
OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
I think that answers that on the intent... best of luck, WildEEP. There is no shame in calling or visiting a therapist. I was going through some shit and had the exact same reaction to having to call/visit the office to fill out paperwork beforehand. I felt like a failure just having to walk in the building.
It will get better. Lots of people want to help you, your friends definitely do.
Don't worry about being embaressed. You've got nothing to be ashamed of. You're doing the right thing. The therapist isn't going to judge you, they're going to help you.
More hugs.
Decomposey on
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OnTheLastCastlelet's keep it haimish for the peripateticRegistered Userregular
edited October 2010
Well, if the therapist does judge you, find a new therapist. There are good and bad therapists. Many more good than bad though!
My appt with the shrink is tomorrow morning.... I'm feeling really ashamed. I had to call in for the appt - they dont let you make behavior health appts over the web. They wanna ask you questions..and just answering the advice nurse about why I was calling, that my wife went nuts and attacked me, was so humilitating I couldnt stand up..I had to sit on my office floor to finish the call.
This is just societal pressure saying husbands can't be abused, and it's wrong. It's bullshit like Esh spouting that a man can "take it" better than a woman, so it's not really physical abuse. It's wrong, and there's absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. You didn't do anything wrong, and you're no less of a man because your wife is an abusive control freak.
You're doing the right thing going to therapy, and we're all pulling for you, no matter what you ultimately decide.
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited October 2010
I know that look.
We're here for you. Please, please consider finding somewhere else to stay for a while.
ceres on
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
My appt with the shrink is tomorrow morning.... I'm feeling really ashamed. I had to call in for the appt - they dont let you make behavior health appts over the web. They wanna ask you questions..and just answering the advice nurse about why I was calling, that my wife went nuts and attacked me, was so humilitating I couldnt stand up..I had to sit on my office floor to finish the call.
Esh, man I understand what you're saying - that hey..physical doesnt automatically mean violence. I've had lots of friends slug me in the arm or palm the back of my head because I made a smartassed comment. You tell it by context - close relationships = lower physical barriers = safety to trade humerous touch. Its commonly how male friends exchange touch without it being considered caressing.
Only problem is . . . thats not what happened.
I've gone over and over it in my head...and the part that wont leave..the part I've been crushed by every time I think about it is how she looked when she did it. Her eyes were so full of hate and anger...god it hurt so much to see that. To have that directed at you by someone you care so much for is about the worst feeling I think I've ever had.
The past two days I've nightmared over it...that look. I dont know if I'll ever be able to therapy my way past it. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.
Thanks for the posts..and the well wishes, its just nice to find a place to vent when I need to and get a take on things from other folks.
It does get easier to talk about with therapy and time. Sometimes it can take a lot of both to get through it. You have a bit of a double whammy in that as a man we're taught to be strong and silent about our pains, and as a domestic violence survivor we are taught by our partners that we don't deserve outside support. But in this case all of that teaching is so very wrong. But with time and therapy it gets better.
Go live with your friends for now. Then use the therapy to help get past your feelings about leaving her. But, leave her and don't ever go back.
She's manipulated you for a long time. And, she's still doing it. She'll talk about hurting herself or how depressed she is to guilt you. Don't let it. Move out, cut of contact, and get a good divorce attorney.
ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited October 2010
Oh hey guys, next person to quote or even refer to Esh in this thread gets an infraction. It's been said, let it go.
ceres on
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I feel for you I realy do. I know what its like to be in a relationship with some one who is totaly dependent on you for everything and want all your time, I have experience of this in friendships, family relationships and for want of a better word sexual relationships (girlfriend boyfriend)
It is extremly difficult to deal with especialy if you are not mentaly stable yourself (such as i am) but helping a person trough their emotional difficulties is rewarding and it is the decent thing to do. I mean at this stage you are married we arent dealing with a crazy girlfriend you have made a commitment for better or worse.
My mother had a big stay at home and keep her finger on the pulse after my father left us in 1997 and then she got injured and closed down her business in 2003 it took her years to break out of her shell she was at home all the time had few friends and spent her time looking after nana and doing bits in the house when she was well enough she couldnt walk for 6 months but in the end we got her better and encouraged her to do part time work with a charity and you wouldnt believe the boost it was to her, besides our interesting and unusual family dinamic i wont go into here there was a big stress on the mother daughter relationship because she wanted me to be there all the time with her and i was afforded no freedom and i became a stand in for my dads absence.
long story short for me to get independance my mother had to re discover her own.
You need to get her counceling and some little part time job or some little hobby, volantary or charity work would be great because it would give her a sense of self worth and makeing a differance. its a self confedence problem. She doesnt need you to continue allowing her to under achieve make her go out and earn her keep a bit or atleast stop doing her spoilt brat student bit. Raise your expectations of her in general she needs the motivation. But she needs psychological support besides you send her to see a psychologist
I feel for you I realy do. I know what its like to be in a relationship with some one who is totaly dependent on you for everything and want all your time, I have experience of this in friendships, family relationships and for want of a better word sexual relationships (girlfriend boyfriend)
It is extremly difficult to deal with especialy if you are not mentaly stable yourself (such as i am) but helping a person trough their emotional difficulties is rewarding and it is the decent thing to do. I mean at this stage you are married we arent dealing with a crazy girlfriend you have made a commitment for better or worse.
My mother had a big stay at home and keep her finger on the pulse after my father left us in 1997 and then she got injured and closed down her business in 2003 it took her years to break out of her shell she was at home all the time had few friends and spent her time looking after nana and doing bits in the house when she was well enough she couldnt walk for 6 months but in the end we got her better and encouraged her to do part time work with a charity and you wouldnt believe the boost it was to her, besides our interesting and unusual family dinamic i wont go into here there was a big stress on the mother daughter relationship because she wanted me to be there all the time with her and i was afforded no freedom and i became a stand in for my dads absence.
long story short for me to get independance my mother had to re discover her own.
You need to get her counceling and some little part time job or some little hobby, volantary or charity work would be great because it would give her a sense of self worth and makeing a differance. its a self confedence problem. She doesnt need you to continue allowing her to under achieve make her go out and earn her keep a bit or atleast stop doing her spoilt brat student bit. Raise your expectations of her in general she needs the motivation. But she needs psychological support besides you send her to see a psychologist
I must be missing the part where her being a lazy layabout is his fault.
Oh, wait. That's because it's not.
I mean seriously. She's an adult. It's time to act like one. It is absolutely not his fault if she acts this way and it's absolutely not his problem to fix if they aren't going to be together. Supporting someone that actually loves you and supporting a self-obsessed, angry spousal abuser are two completely different things. At a certain point, people have to grow up on their own.
ChillyWilly on
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You can pretty much ignore this entire thing as terrible advice.
This is very true. Whether or not it was a joke, it hurt you both physically and emotionally and shouldn't be taken lightly.
And I didn't get a chance to touch on this in my last post, but the fact that she completely nutted out when you went to hang out with friends says a lot. I love spending time with my boyfriend, to the point where we're with each other ALL the time and I still look forward to spending more time with him, but if he wanted to go out and hang with his buddies, I wouldn't think anything of it. Everyone needs social interaction.
Does she not trust you, and think you're going to run off with the first girl you see? Her co-dependency should have been a huge red flag before you got married, though you obviously notice it now.
After all of this, I believe you really need to shack up with a good lawyer, and get yourself out of this mess. OR, your wife needs to get some SERIOUS therapy, and you both need to go to a marriage counselor.
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You can indeed, absolutely awful. There is no excuse.
I can tell you all about a bad relationship sneaking up on you, and just being too close to see it all. Honestly, I do not think you should stay. If you decide you want to try to work things out with her, I really think you should consider finding another place to stay until you've both had a considerable amount of therapy, and this is at the very least. If hitting you isn't the line, what is? Seriously, where is it?
Societal norms. They go both ways. Because we (society as a whole in general) see things like a woman hitting a man as "not abusive" or not as worthy of concern, then it becomes ingrained into the feminine psyche as wel. Thus, she doesn't see (or mean for) the hit to be something of serious consequence. Not that this is an excuse by any means, but again, I hardly think this particular incident is as serious as people are making it out to be.
The rest of the relationship is a little bonkers, that's why I said to go seek counseling if he wants to make it work. I don't think he needs to move out though for that. That will only strain things more.
Regardless of whether or not you perceive her being physically violent to him to be a problem, it's still assault
In grown-up land, that has consequences, some of which include the victim's right to get the fuck out of there ASAP, and to get the authorities involved if he thinks its a good idea (and it is, trust me)
Yes, it is (I never argued this), and it's up to him to decide whether to report it as such. Were it me in this situation, I'd write it off, and if it happened again, I'd leave. I'd certainly not report a punch to the chest to the police unless this was part of some sort of vicious cycle that I couldn't escape from. Let me stress this, AS A MAN. Were I a woman, yes, I'd report this. Double standard? Sure, then again, the world isn't fair.
If he wants to completely destroy any chances he has with this woman, then yes, he should go ahead and report it to the police. Has he actually said whether he wants to give this another chance or not? We're tossing around a lot of advice without knowing where he wants to take this.
EDIT: Scratch that. Rereading he wants to do therapy. I think if he was really that concerned about it (escalating into something actually dangerous or life threatening) he would have done it right away. Talk it out with her and your therapist together. Reporting this will only widen the gap.
Or, next time she goes for the jaw, and breaks that.
Or she escalates when she feels that the punching you in the collarbone isn't working, and upgrades to physical, blunty objects.
She bruised you. If you try to restrain her arms when she goes to do it again, you'll bruise her arm - which is where double standards would start working against you, and she could easily claim that you were restraining her and she punched you in the neck to escape.
And it doesn't matter how calm you think you are, it could be a straw breaking the camel's back situation and you could blow up and slug her in a momentary lapse of judgement.
Call the police and get it documented. If she's willing to hit you like that, she's willing to hit your future kids like that.
Her manipulative behavior (limiting friends, obsessively checking the bank account, etc) and physical violence aren't about having or keeping a relationship, they're about control
How can you have a viable, fulfilling, mutually beneficial relationship with someone who wants to control you?
Did I miss the part where he said that she left a bruise? Because if I didn't, you should probably correct that because people are already taking what you just said there and running with it. Misinformation in a case like this is not a good thing.
Your solution to societal norms is to sit back and take it? Screw that. I'm sorry that your masculinity is so fragile that it won't let you think this is a serious issue. Not everyone has the same issues as you.
If someone you're in a relationship with punches you -- whether it bruises you or not, you get out. Not only does it indicate a lack of respect for you, it indicates a lack of control and ability to communicate in any meaningful way. It is a regression from her seeing you as a person to her seeing you as just a tool in her own emotional needs.
Even without the physical violence, this is a bad situation.
I'm really glad to hear you want to get in on therapy, but honestly, I think you should stay somewhere else while this whole ordeal goes on. You're obviously realizing a lot of things you missed before by being too close to the situation. Give yourself a chance to step back and see your life without her. It will only make her control over your life and time seem more apparent.
I look forward to your posts in the future telling female forumers to stay with their male partners after having been hit and not take it too seriously after a pattern of abusive behaviour by their partner.
Well, he did say that there is a double standard and it's not the same thing for women.
Which I don't agree with. As everyone else in this thread doesn't.
You are correct, he did not specify that, and that is my bad. But while we're on the subject of reading comprehension, I do believe that I said you should leave the double standard outside. So you should think very carefully about failing to do so in the future.
I also second saving your own money.
I mean, shit. If it were me, I'd be packing up or at the very least seriously considering it.
She hit you. She admitted she wants control of you.
That is not a healthy relationship, and is honestly pretty disgusting of her.
I am with Esh on this one.
But the hitting aside.
You have to ask yourself: am I in a relationship of equals? Is your long-term happiness assured if you jump through all the psych hoops? Are you staying with her out of compassion or love?
Will she ever be able to get a job, raise kids etc?
I think you friends are in the GTFO camp, so I will side with them. You can help her better as a friend then as her significant other. She has to work out her issues and be happy with herself before she can be happy with anyone else. If you dont get out you will always be her crutch.
However I honestly don't think you should stay together at this time and hope for that change. As long as you don't take a stand, you're basically telling her that the world she's built is more or less safe and she can keep exerting control over you. Get away from her for the time being. Look after your finances so she doesn't clean you out in the mean time. This could get very ugly, but this problem isn't going to magically go away if you just decide to give her another chance.
You know something's very wrong and has been for a while, now it's time to act.
I've been where you are dude. I know EXACTLY what you're going through right now. You love her, you care about her, you want to fix the problems and make things better. Part of you feels like if you can just figure out the right thing to do, it'll fix things, and you and she can be happy. Another part of you knows this is wrong. Your relationship is wrong, and has been wrong for a very long time, you just didn't know why until she hit you. And that puts a word to what she has been doing to you for years: Abuse.
She is an abuser. She abuses. And she's not going to stop. Sure, she could get months/years of extremely intensive counsiling, but 95% of the time that doesn't work, it would just teach her how to become a better abuser. You could go to couples counsiling, but any issues you might bring up to her there you are going to pay for later, trust me on that. She'll act nice for a while, maybe even act perfect, this is called a 'peak'. But she'll decent to the floor of a 'valley' soon enough, and she will hit you again. Probably harder, possibly with a weapon. You have to get out before that happens.
I know you feel like you are responsible for her, that you can't leave or else bad things will happen to her and it would be your fault, but this is WRONG. She is not your responsibility, and she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself, she just isn't, because she wants you to do it for her. She'll weep and cry, and probably threaten to hurt herself if you try to leave. Just more attempts to control and emotionally abuse you.
You need to get out WildEEP. You need to get out now before things get worse. And they WILL get worse.
You know, I recommended talking to her again and perhaps going to couples therapy on the first page. But after reading this, I believe I was wrong.
Decomposey's post? /thread
If you want to even try and salvage anything from this relationship, and honestly, no one would blame you if you didn't, then I would first remove yourself from the situation. Go see if you can live with a friend for a while, or stay with family. Then try therapy while you are separated from your wife. She may be more inclined to take it seriously at that point. However, if you are planning on trying to make it work, don't do it out of a sense of obligation or guilt.
My appt with the shrink is tomorrow morning.... I'm feeling really ashamed. I had to call in for the appt - they dont let you make behavior health appts over the web. They wanna ask you questions..and just answering the advice nurse about why I was calling, that my wife went nuts and attacked me, was so humilitating I couldnt stand up..I had to sit on my office floor to finish the call.
Esh, man I understand what you're saying - that hey..physical doesnt automatically mean violence. I've had lots of friends slug me in the arm or palm the back of my head because I made a smartassed comment. You tell it by context - close relationships = lower physical barriers = safety to trade humerous touch. Its commonly how male friends exchange touch without it being considered caressing.
Only problem is . . . thats not what happened.
I've gone over and over it in my head...and the part that wont leave..the part I've been crushed by every time I think about it is how she looked when she did it. Her eyes were so full of hate and anger...god it hurt so much to see that. To have that directed at you by someone you care so much for is about the worst feeling I think I've ever had.
The past two days I've nightmared over it...that look. I dont know if I'll ever be able to therapy my way past it. Guess I'll find out tomorrow.
Thanks for the posts..and the well wishes, its just nice to find a place to vent when I need to and get a take on things from other folks.
It will get better. Lots of people want to help you, your friends definitely do.
Don't worry about being embaressed. You've got nothing to be ashamed of. You're doing the right thing. The therapist isn't going to judge you, they're going to help you.
More hugs.
This is just societal pressure saying husbands can't be abused, and it's wrong. It's bullshit like Esh spouting that a man can "take it" better than a woman, so it's not really physical abuse. It's wrong, and there's absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. You didn't do anything wrong, and you're no less of a man because your wife is an abusive control freak.
You're doing the right thing going to therapy, and we're all pulling for you, no matter what you ultimately decide.
We're here for you. Please, please consider finding somewhere else to stay for a while.
Man, marriage isn't supposed to be like being in prison.
It does get easier to talk about with therapy and time. Sometimes it can take a lot of both to get through it. You have a bit of a double whammy in that as a man we're taught to be strong and silent about our pains, and as a domestic violence survivor we are taught by our partners that we don't deserve outside support. But in this case all of that teaching is so very wrong. But with time and therapy it gets better.
She's manipulated you for a long time. And, she's still doing it. She'll talk about hurting herself or how depressed she is to guilt you. Don't let it. Move out, cut of contact, and get a good divorce attorney.
It is extremly difficult to deal with especialy if you are not mentaly stable yourself (such as i am) but helping a person trough their emotional difficulties is rewarding and it is the decent thing to do. I mean at this stage you are married we arent dealing with a crazy girlfriend you have made a commitment for better or worse.
My mother had a big stay at home and keep her finger on the pulse after my father left us in 1997 and then she got injured and closed down her business in 2003 it took her years to break out of her shell she was at home all the time had few friends and spent her time looking after nana and doing bits in the house when she was well enough she couldnt walk for 6 months but in the end we got her better and encouraged her to do part time work with a charity and you wouldnt believe the boost it was to her, besides our interesting and unusual family dinamic i wont go into here there was a big stress on the mother daughter relationship because she wanted me to be there all the time with her and i was afforded no freedom and i became a stand in for my dads absence.
long story short for me to get independance my mother had to re discover her own.
You need to get her counceling and some little part time job or some little hobby, volantary or charity work would be great because it would give her a sense of self worth and makeing a differance. its a self confedence problem. She doesnt need you to continue allowing her to under achieve make her go out and earn her keep a bit or atleast stop doing her spoilt brat student bit. Raise your expectations of her in general she needs the motivation. But she needs psychological support besides you send her to see a psychologist
I must be missing the part where her being a lazy layabout is his fault.
Oh, wait. That's because it's not.
I mean seriously. She's an adult. It's time to act like one. It is absolutely not his fault if she acts this way and it's absolutely not his problem to fix if they aren't going to be together. Supporting someone that actually loves you and supporting a self-obsessed, angry spousal abuser are two completely different things. At a certain point, people have to grow up on their own.