I like Dungeons & Dragons 4E very much, but I'm usually stuck as the DM. I'd really love to be on the player's side. This got me wondering if there were any video games that play similarly to the D&D 4E experience.
These are the criteria for the sort of games I'm looking for:
* Turn-based tactical RPG
* Small number of player characters (less than 10)
* Each PC is specialized to fulfill an integral role
* Positioning is key to victory
* Enemies can be forced to reposition, such as by being pushed
A lot of people criticize 4E by claiming that it's like a video game. Despite this claim, I haven't found too many games that play like it. Here's what I've got so far:
* Final Fantasy Tactics
* Wizard's Crown
* Disgaea
* Gladius
* Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Are their any other games that fit my criteria I could look into?
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Whether a fantasy roleplaying game should be like a realistic, or whether it is more fun to be more realistic, that's another matter entirely. The fact is that 4E is more like a video game than a "realistic" fantasy world.
One of the things that people complained about in 3rd edition was how powerful a wizard could get relative to a fighter, but let's be honest, if magic was real then a person who could command it probably would be more powerful. 4E, on the other hand, does its best to put all the classes in perfect balance. A massive fireball is no more powerful than a sword slash. This may make it more fun, depending on what you play DnD for, but it's certainly not realistic. In the real world, some people are more effective than others at fighting.
The ability system is another main thing that is like a video game. Instead of a swordsman just rushing in to fight to the best of his ability, everything has a Name and a very specific thing it does. Turbo Spinning Rush, Steel Piston Strike, Glancing Blade Split, or whatever. Real combat does not work anything like this, but video games do. It's true that in "old style" DnD where you used basic attacks constantly, that's not necessarily realistic either, but it left more room for roleplay, to decide on your own what that last attack looked like.
Finally, there's the role system, lifted directly from most MMOs. Tank, healer, DPS and support, straight up. These roles tend to develop naturally anyway in a roleplaying group, but making them so explicit and necessary in 4E has bent it more towards a game and away from a simulation.
So to answer your question, 4E draws most comparisons with WoW and other MMOs. No, they're not turn based, but that's about all that's missing.
Not exactly what you want, but I haven't found any games like that either.
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I remember playing City of Heroes to be a chaotic experience, whereas the positioning and power usage of D&D 4E is careful and methodical. 4E has many, many powers that allow allies to move outside their turns and force enemies to move against their will; I feel like movement granting/forcing powers may be one of the defining traits of 4E combat, and I don't recall seeing many powers like them in City of Heroes.
None go for D&D 4th Edition balancing of magic and physical classes though. That's more of a Gauntlet 3D or FF XII sort of thing.
I see the similarities but I also don't get why it's a complaint besides they just want to hate on wow and now they want to hate on 4e.
edit: If you like grinding? go for the disgea series, there's literally enough content there as a tactical RPG that you will never finish all 3 if you have OCD.
double edit: It's early, I missed that you listed Disgea. Theres a few more tactics games they released in the same vein, like La Pucel tactics.
It's a complaint from purists because at least in their eyes, roleplaying is/should be about a realistic world simulation, "you can do anything you want in this world" sort of thing. Bringing in video game-like rulesets might feel arbitrary and start to take away from that feeling.
Phantom Brave is the other game similar to la pucell, and disgea that I couldn't think of. I think the GCN had a LotR's tactics game, but it wasn't too hot I am told.
Also, WoW isn't even remotely like a 4E game. :?
I might give it a shot. I listed Disgaea earlier, but frankly it doesn't have many abilities in it that let you reposition enemies (and the way you reposition allies by picking up and throwing whole stacks of them is bizarre).
The only problem is that I grew tired of the amount of grinding necessary in Disgaea, so if Phantom Brave requires a similar amount of grinding I may give it a pass.
That's what I've heard. Unfortunately, I've also heard the game is going to be real time, not turn-based, so I don't have my hopes up for it.
Also there's a lot of Infinity Engine games that actually are D&D, if you can go back to the second edition rules. I have a hard time going back, even though Baldur's Gate 2 is an amazing game.
not super relevant but did anyone else play progress quest?
I did that, too. I think the most fun I had in combat was when "rigged" the field in the Circle of Magi. I was in a hallway and could see a group of enemies in a larger room through a door. I decided to use the door as a funnel for the enemies and planned my strategy accordingly.
First I got Leliana to fire an arrow at the enemies, making them aware of my party's presence. Next I had Wynn activate an earthquake spell on the enemies' side of the door, which dealt some damage and slowed them down. Morrigan let loose a fire blast through the door as the enemies got within range. Finally, my melee character was there to prevent access through the doorway, using the doorway to ensure that the number of enemies able to attack him was minimized.
Me, too. I really wonder why they aren't making a game like this.
Not really. The closest there EVER was/is TOEE (and maybe some older GoldBox games). In fact also the best. Great engine/not so great Game.
Personally Aurora/Electron was always a "meh" engine for D&D. So was Infinity though both are more than functionable.
Most likely because The Temple Of Elemental Evil was a direct rules port and wasn't fun at all. Computer games and Pen and Paper RPGs are very different beasts, you can't just port them wholesale.
Baldur's Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights 2 (+addons) are amazing roleplaying games based on the D&D ruleset, but you might not be satisfied with the combat systems in these games.
I believe Final Fantasy Tactics is similar to Disgea, but mostly without all the grind (assumption based on my short time with FF Tactics Advance)
Well, you can, since the system conversion was easily the best part of ToEE and the only reason to actually play that game. It's just the campaign was shit.
The knights of the old republic games would fit in damn well too seeing how they are based on D&D.
I never asked for this!
FFTA's combat lacks the type of movement abilities present in D&D 4E. I looked on Gamefaqs and saw that you can unlock a Fighter ability that lets you push an enemy with a hit, but I didn't notice anything else that caused forced movement (I'm planning to get that ability for at least two of my characters). Getting a critical hit against an enemy pushes it one space, but that's too infrequent and situational to really play a role in strategizing.
I honestly haven't gotten very far at all in Gladius. Whereas FFTA throws you right into the thick of action with only minimal explanation, Gladius sits you in a high chair and spoon feeds you tutorials (you can skip these, which I should have). I haven't seen anything in terms of forced movement yet. There's also the issue of high ground: being at a higher elevation than your opponent gives you a tactical advantage (for some reason), and the fact that you primarily gain the high ground by climbing up onto a random wooden crate just strikes me as silly.
So far Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter has fit closest to 4E's combat. There are several forced movement powers available (for example, Ryu can kick an enemy away from him), and you can create damaging magical zones (Nina can create elemental magic circles that damage those enemies who enter them). Unfortunately, Ryu makes for a poor Defender, as he lacks sufficient means to prevent his ranged attacker allies from being approached by monsters.
Playing these games has led me to realize how complicated and nuanced the combat in D&D 4E is. Surely there's a video game out there whose combat system is as ambitious as D&D 4E's, right?
Some games have excellent movement based gameplay, but lack the defined roles of characters. In fact most non mmo's don't have tanks, controllers, striker roles, just pretty much physical strikers and magical weaker strikers.
Some games have the roles but don't have the turn based action you're looking for.
What you really want is a 4th edition turn based game. They don't exist yet. The closest things are these SRPGs, a couple of real time games (WoW and FF XII) and surprisingly enough, Pokemon.
Again, dude, I'm tellin' ya: Valkyria Chronicles.
It does have elevation as an advantage though.
I don't have a PS3.
It has everything he asked for, except for being able to reposition enemy troops. It feels closer to D&D than most other games in this thread, anyway.
Ah well, never mind, then.
It's not grid based, it's a unique combination of real-time and line-based movement. You set characters on their paths, start the turn, and everything occurs simultaneously.
Consider Bloodbowl. It's not exactly combat, but it's the best turn-based tactical game I've played, and I love those kinds of games and have played a lot of them.
It's pretty much all about tackle zones and protection.
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