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Best Korea and Dear Leader's Howitzers

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Posts

  • RobmanRobman Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Both China and Russia are annoyed with the US of A poking its fingers in their regional pies. Russia had its nice little war with Georgia to demonstrate its regional dominance aka DO NOT FUCK WITH RUSSIA OR WE STEAMROLL YOU LOL LOL, but China doesn't really have a good opportunity to wave their military dick around in their region.

    India also figures into this, and shit gets real complicated yo

    Robman on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    I've been hearing from my various conservative friends who have a Fox News IV drip that should things go to shit that China will actually take military action in support of North Korea

    I find this unlikely
    Given that such a move would result in Chinese forces firing at US forces, that seems highly unlikely.

    China's leadership is quite rational. I doubt they have any interest in going to war with a nuclear power.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I've been hearing from my various conservative friends who have a Fox News IV drip that should things go to shit that China will actually take military action in support of North Korea

    I find this unlikely
    Given that such a move would result in Chinese forces firing at US forces, that seems highly unlikely.

    China's leadership is quite rational. I doubt they have any interest in going to war with a nuclear power.

    Chief trading partner and major also it's major debt holder. The last thing China needs to do is give the US a perfect excuse to default on it all.

    electricitylikesme on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Well they might position a few troops in NK as a deterrent but I highly doubt China will do anything once the shit hits the fan.

    DanHibiki on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    If Best Korea does collapse, then some sort of reunification would be inevitable. A possible solution to quell Chinese concerns would be keeping the North demilitarized.

    Assuming we don't end up with some sort of insurgency after such a collapse, keeping North Korea running at a basic level wouldn't be all that difficult. Their standard of living is so meagre now, the bar is incredibly low. As someone pointed out upthread, it would "only" cost about $50 billion to double their income level.

    Developing North Korea wouldn't be horribly difficult. They'd just start as the cheap labor annex to South Korea, and go from there.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    enc0re wrote: »
    The leak of diplomatic cables seems to confirm that for China it's first about preventing a unified Korea, rather than a potential refugee crisis.
    NYTimes wrote:
    The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.

    So the 'refugee crisis' should be dismissed as a canard, since they're basically already feeding NK. Although the latter has been stated a few times in this thread (eg Shogun), and I certainly believe it, I haven't seen anything evidentiary.

    Octoparrot on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Well they might position a few troops in NK as a deterrent but I highly doubt China will do anything once the shit hits the fan.

    They would probably militarize the fuck out of the border and do perhaps a pre-emptive insertion few miles into NK to control the flow of refugees. In fact, North Korea probably knows this, which is why a large part of their artillery is facing China.

    DarkCrawler on
  • CommunistCowCommunistCow Abstract Metal ThingyRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I've been hearing from my various conservative friends who have a Fox News IV drip that should things go to shit that China will actually take military action in support of North Korea

    I find this unlikely
    Given that such a move would result in Chinese forces firing at US forces, that seems highly unlikely.

    China's leadership is quite rational. I doubt they have any interest in going to war with a nuclear power.

    Chief trading partner and major also it's major debt holder. The last thing China needs to do is give the US a perfect excuse to default on it all.

    I think you just came up with the best solution for solving our debt problem. Attack china. :lol: :winky:

    Then we can truly be free of the strangle hold of cheap plastic crap!

    CommunistCow on
    No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I've been hearing from my various conservative friends who have a Fox News IV drip that should things go to shit that China will actually take military action in support of North Korea

    I find this unlikely
    Given that such a move would result in Chinese forces firing at US forces, that seems highly unlikely.

    China's leadership is quite rational. I doubt they have any interest in going to war with a nuclear power.

    Chief trading partner and major also it's major debt holder. The last thing China needs to do is give the US a perfect excuse to default on it all.

    I think you just came up with the best solution for solving our debt problem. Attack china. :lol: :winky:

    Then we can truly be free of the strangle hold of cheap plastic crap!

    What is the financial market's opinions on debt held by a country that you then go to war with?

    electricitylikesme on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I've been hearing from my various conservative friends who have a Fox News IV drip that should things go to shit that China will actually take military action in support of North Korea

    I find this unlikely
    Given that such a move would result in Chinese forces firing at US forces, that seems highly unlikely.

    China's leadership is quite rational. I doubt they have any interest in going to war with a nuclear power.

    Chief trading partner and major also it's major debt holder. The last thing China needs to do is give the US a perfect excuse to default on it all.

    I think you just came up with the best solution for solving our debt problem. Attack china. :lol: :winky:

    Then we can truly be free of the strangle hold of cheap plastic crap!

    Well, you'll still have like 8 trillion in debt to the rest of the world. ;-)

    DarkCrawler on
  • MagicPrimeMagicPrime FiresideWizard Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Hasn't the precedent always been that a full-on stand up war with another country is a boon for an economy?

    It's just that the quagmire we've been stuck in the middle east is the opposite of that.

    MagicPrime on
    BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
    Critical Failures - Havenhold CampaignAugust St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    Hasn't the precedent always been that a full-on stand up war with another country is a boon for an economy?

    It's just that the quagmire we've been stuck in the middle east is the opposite of that.

    Well, you see, U.S. military spending is so insane that you wouldn't actually need to manufacture anything new to win a war with any country on Earth. Unlike in WWII where you needed to transform from an isolationist country into something capable of taking on both the Empire of Japan and Nazi Germany and come out on top. Just like the Soviet Union, who also came out on top and became a superpower.

    So in this case, no new jobs (except for soldiers) and a lot of fuel, paycheck and food costs.

    China might get a boost though.

    DarkCrawler on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Nah. A full-on stand up war with another country is a boon for an economy when the war is away from your country so it doesn't get bombed to hell.

    Couscous on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    MagicPrime wrote: »
    Hasn't the precedent always been that a full-on stand up war with another country is a boon for an economy?

    It's just that the quagmire we've been stuck in the middle east is the opposite of that.

    Depends on where the war is being fought.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • VerrVerr Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    You know the Sonic Cycle? The images that are always posted whenever a new Sonic game comes out? Players are hopeful, new friends, etc.... We need one for the Best Korea threads.

    Something like:

    1. NK acts aggressively/does something stupid, people freak out/predict end of days America vs China supa-fight.
    2. Everyone rushes to Big Media, asking things like, "How America is going subdue the Korean populace and fight off China? Why can't we send in the Seals and rescue the reporters?"
    3. Everyone who has followed North Korea history for longer than a FOX news reporter tries to convey how unrealistic the common fears are. (No really, everyone has been over this a million times. If shit goes down, it won't be over a self-destructive minor State. War is not going to happen with China, or North Korea.)
    4. People forget about NK when the news cycle comes up with something cooler.
    5. Repeat.

    Verr on
  • ShogunShogun Hair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get along Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Has anyone seen this bit about North Korea calling back tens of thousands of workers it has in Russia? I'll link to the article if anyone wants it, but I'm questioning the veracity. The paper is called The Independent and its based in the UK. The agency reporting is a russian news agency I don't know anything about.

    I question the article because it has a sensationalist title and because I got a few glances into the comments section before my nose started bleeding.

    Shogun on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I've been hearing from my various conservative friends who have a Fox News IV drip that should things go to shit that China will actually take military action in support of North Korea

    I find this unlikely
    Given that such a move would result in Chinese forces firing at US forces, that seems highly unlikely.

    China's leadership is quite rational. I doubt they have any interest in going to war with a nuclear power.

    Chief trading partner and major also it's major debt holder. The last thing China needs to do is give the US a perfect excuse to default on it all.

    I think you just came up with the best solution for solving our debt problem. Attack china. :lol: :winky:

    Then we can truly be free of the strangle hold of cheap plastic crap!
    Isn't most of the foreign dept held by Japan?

    So yeah... Maybe it's time to inspire some better Anime.

    DanHibiki on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    Isn't most of the foreign dept held by Japan?

    So yeah... Maybe it's time to inspire some better Anime.

    China just overtook Japan as the number 1 U.S. debt holder. Both foreign reserve troves were amassed by currency manipulation. China is still doing it full-tilt while Japan rarely manipulates the Yen anymore.

    enc0re on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    VishNub wrote: »
    VishNub wrote: »
    I don't have a whole lot of faith in China to actually take care of the hypothetical refugees, which is a whole other issue.

    My estimation may be way off, but isn't China still largely impoverished? And carries a population of something like 1.5 billion?


    Adding another dozen million to that number doesn't seem like the harshest pill to swallow.

    Well, whether they could is one thing, I'm pretty sure they absolutely could, if they wanted to. Whether they would is another.

    It just seems like a rather small figure to hem and haw about when it does the world so much good to be rid of North Korea.

    It's like someone saying that you can save the world but it's going to cost you $250, and you're like, "Aw, man! 250 bucks? I was gonna buy a Playstation!"

    Wow, Ross, I have to say...normally, you express your thoughts in a clear, succinct manner, but this is probably the worst analogy I've heard in the past month. If not longer. So this magically just...fixes all the problems in the Korean Peninsula? Forever? No "giant humanitarian crisis", which has been a problem since North Korea started starving, and presumably, China will just be great friends with South Korea while they're trying to figure out what to do with a third of the Koreans in the peninsula in their territory? Oh, yeah, that'll work out great. Everyone will be really, really happy, and all because China dealt with that tiny matter of a country of 24 million people.

    Also, a population higher than a billion suddenly having to manage another 24 million? Yeah, it's not as daunting as if it were another billion, but it's still a goddamn problem for a state that doesn't have enough money to waste it on half the world's defense costs. Where is all of this confidence in the Chinese Government's ability to manage a few extra dozen million people? I hope the answer to Pakistan's crumbling authority over most of Pakistan isn't "Tell everyone outside of Islamabad to go to India and chillax."

    There's a reason why I never actually said China would launch a massive humanitarian effort. The issue at hand is that the world would immediately demand the the PRC do exactly that, whether or not they wanted to, and if/when they didn't, the rest of the world--but especially South Korea, with a vested interested in those people--would bitch nonstop and retaliate with mild, but irritating sanctions. Which are another problem it'd have to deal with, including millions of people pressing along the border. Especially South Korea. And that won't even be the vast majority of the population, who will probably be to busy starving or living in absolute terror or both to make the trek--a fraction of it would still be one of the largest humanitarian crises in history.

    Given our usual not-unreasonable cynicism (an occasionally hilarious demonization) of China we have in the US, the mindset, "Hey, you know, if China would just do us this teeny little favor and feed, shelter, employ and provide healthcare for 24 million people, we could all just be fine," is...pretty hilariously bad. China's current aid to North Korea is, as already stated, the limit of what they'll tolerate. You might as well tell the South to stop spending money on luxuries like high-speed internet, consumables and DVD-printing-presses and tell them to aim their additional industrial capacity, right now, no questions asked, to the North, regardless of the political situations. Hell, at least the South Koreans claim they love their brothers to the North, and hate their government. The immediate unification of Korea would be painful, but just telling China to "suck it up" and allow 24 million refugees until...what? What's the follow up plan? They can all be transported back to South Korea? To remain indefinitely in China?

    This has nothing to do with 'communist polity'. Mexico is a capitalist democracy, but the US isn't about to reverse our immigration policies, as ineffectual as they might be, despite the fact that we're the wealthiest country in the world, and far better suited to do anything that incredibly expensive than China. We "let" millions of Indians starve during the Cold War, despite being another "democracy"--though that was one that was warmer to the Soviets than to us. Why should professed communist states not give a damn either? If North Korea hadn't spent the last few decades pissing off China, the story might be different. And contrary to popular opinion, the "One Child Policy" was not implemented just because the Beijing Government likes putting expectant parents into high levels of stress--it's because China is concerned about its population growth. Something another dozen or two million people would not be conducive too.

    tl;dr--this is worse than "Have the South Koreans--a people with a comparatively high standard of living, and discretionary income, who are also Korean--deal with it."

    Synthesis on
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Amazingly apropos, thanks Wikileaks:
    Senior Chinese officials have said the Korean peninsula should be reunified under Seoul's control, according to leaked classified US diplomatic cables.

    They are said to have told an ex-South Korean minister China placed little value on the North as a buffer state.

    Chinese Vice Foreign Minister He Yafei meanwhile allegedly said Pyongyang was behaving like a "spoiled child".

    ...

    Jonathan Marcus
    BBC Diplomatic Correspondent
    This latest batch of cables appears to provide an insight into China's thinking about its North Korean ally. That this comes at a time of renewed tensions on the Korean peninsula in the wake of the North's shelling of a South Korean island makes this even more interesting.

    The key cable dates back to February. In it, the then South Korean vice foreign minister tells the Americans that the Chinese are fed up with the North Korean regime's behaviour and would not oppose Korean re-unification.

    This is all fascinating stuff but seasoned Korea-watchers caution that this is a very "South Korean" view of the policy debate in Beijing. Other cables though do deal with direct Chinese-US conversations. In April 2009, after North Korea fired a missile over Japanese territory a Chinese official referred to North Korea as "a spoiled child".

    So there does indeed seem to be growing frustration with Pyongyang in at least some circles in Beijing. And that's useful to know at a moment like this. China is the key player in this crisis. Only it can broker some kind of talks with Pyongyang. But is this South Korean assessment - as reported to Washington - an accurate reflection of Beijing's current thinking? The answer to that is we simply do not know.

    ronya on
    aRkpc.gif
  • shosarshosar Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Well as the mixed metaphors go: better the devil you know, then the devil with the hammer who sees everything as a nail.

    In otherwords, China would much rather deal with a sane "enemy" (using the lightest meaning possible) than a nutball friend.

    shosar on
  • HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    "Adversary" would be a good word for it.

    Hoz on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    The leak of diplomatic cables seems to confirm that for China it's first about preventing a unified Korea, rather than a potential refugee crisis.
    NYTimes wrote:
    The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.

    So the 'refugee crisis' should be dismissed as a canard, since they're basically already feeding NK. Although the latter has been stated a few times in this thread (eg Shogun), and I certainly believe it, I haven't seen anything evidentiary.

    There's a very large and real difference between chucking pallets of food and money at the NK government and actually having to do the work of taking care of those people yourself while trying to prevent them from flooding across your border.

    shryke on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    shryke wrote: »
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    enc0re wrote: »
    The leak of diplomatic cables seems to confirm that for China it's first about preventing a unified Korea, rather than a potential refugee crisis.
    NYTimes wrote:
    The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.

    So the 'refugee crisis' should be dismissed as a canard, since they're basically already feeding NK. Although the latter has been stated a few times in this thread (eg Shogun), and I certainly believe it, I haven't seen anything evidentiary.

    There's a very large and real difference between chucking pallets of food and money at the NK government and actually having to do the work of taking care of those people yourself while trying to prevent them from flooding across your border.

    DarkCrawler's "They would probably militarize the fuck out of the border and do perhaps a pre-emptive insertion few miles into NK to control the flow of refugees" is one way to deal with the situation.

    1) They're already providing food for NK, outside of what NKans farm or catch themselves.
    2) I'm a bit more optimistic that without contraband raids and loyalty tests, where NKans are free to own a radio or computer, flow of technical information will make large, immediate improvements to quality of life.
    3) Definitely the lesser of two evils but just like in East Germany, huge numbers of companies will sweep in for a cheap labor market and to start providing Big Macs and Blue Jeans.

    Octoparrot on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    As it is, it seems like North Korea doesn't have much of an economy to collapse. Heck, getting rid of the state-run 'industry' would actually be an economic stimulus at this point.

    What concerns me would be the loss of utilities and a possible spike in crime.

    jothki on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    jothki wrote: »
    As it is, it seems like North Korea doesn't have much of an economy to collapse. Heck, getting rid of the state-run 'industry' would actually be an economic stimulus at this point.

    What concerns me would be the loss of utilities and a possible spike in crime.

    If Iraq taught us nothing else, it's that if anything happens and NK opens up in anyway, the best thing we could do is dump UN peacekeepers in their as fast as possible with some measure of policing powers to maintain order.

    I kind of hope there's a plan on the books for this contingency. If we can plan their nuclear annihilation we can plan some best case scenario liberations.

    electricitylikesme on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    It's already probably clear, but don't expect this to be East Germany--i.e., with a population of a fourth the neighboring party, and one of the most developed precision industrial economies in Eastern Europe (probably more developed than that of, for example, Spain or Portugal in 1989).

    That, and the East Germans, while not living as well as the West Germans, were not anywhere close to the situation of the North Koreans. The early stages of German reunification will be a walk in the park by comparison--an environment conducive to businesses.

    North Korea? You need to deal with the huge shortages in basic utilities (East Germany had those) like electricity and water, and the starving population (East Germans were actually eating as well).

    Synthesis on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Synthesis wrote: »
    It's already probably clear, but don't expect this to be East Germany--i.e., with a population of a fourth the neighboring party, and one of the most developed precision industrial economies in Eastern Europe (probably more developed than that of, for example, Spain or Portugal in 1989).

    That, and the East Germans, while not living as well as the West Germans, were not anywhere close to the situation of the North Koreans. The early stages of German reunification will be a walk in the park by comparison--an environment conducive to businesses.

    North Korea? You need to deal with the huge shortages in basic utilities (East Germany had those) like electricity and water, and the starving population (East Germans were actually eating as well).

    Electricity looks like the only major issue there. Water as an infrastructure project is initially easier, at least until population/population density increases. Starvation is already status quo and food is a work incentive (I don't mean that to sound as callous as it does).

    I'd be more concerned with the psychology of the workforce itself, with the veracity of this Dear Leader worship. East Germans had a lot of enthusiasm to find work outside of what they were permitted to do before die Wende and I don't know how the average North Korean would act.

    Octoparrot on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    From my understanding they're generally supportive of unification as much as the South Koreans are.

    Koreans on both sides seem to view themselves as one culture split between two governments.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    From my understanding they're generally supportive of unification as much as the South Koreans are.

    Koreans on both sides seem to view themselves as one culture split between two governments.

    Likewise with the Germans, but could North Koreans be... bitter that they weren't the unifiers?

    Octoparrot on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    From my understanding they're generally supportive of unification as much as the South Koreans are.

    Koreans on both sides seem to view themselves as one culture split between two governments.

    Likewise with the Germans, but could North Koreans be... bitter that they weren't the unifiers?

    I doubt it with the exception of the government. I'm sure the Best Koreans know they're getting the shaft at the moment.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Yeah, I seriously doubt the vast majority of North Koreans need any incentive to work. This is a very damn disciplined population. This is not a society that's adamant about the sanctity of the "the profit motive" or bullshit like that. Unless the new management decides to stay with the whole "North Koreans hate every aspect of us" angle, they will work because that's what adult North Koreans do--again, an important reason why it has to be a party like the South Koreans.

    At the same time, you can't expect them to do efficiently so if they're actively starving, and using food as an "incentive" basically puts you about a half-step over the current regime since the food shortages began. Expecting any sort of industrial or economic growth before the starvation is combated might be cheap, but it's also grossly irresponsible.

    And, as SS put it--if you're going to let them keep starving, then you're basically fucking them over like the current government. Except with the added benefit of fucking things over for the blessed people in Pyongyang who actually have food. In that sense, you're doing worse for the North Koreans then the status quo. Unless you're willing to be a complete bastard to the effect of the current leadership, minus the missile threats, I guess, you will need to feed the population to at least a nearly adequate level (we're not talking a point of comfort like South Korea or Japan) before you can mobilize their labor for profit to pay for the effort or even just retain current North Korean productivity towards meeting other needs.

    Synthesis on
  • FilFil Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil on
  • AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil wrote: »

    My question is: If China pushes for reunification under the control of the South, and Seoul agrees, what does Pyongyang do?


    My gut feeling is self-immolation. Nuke everyone they can.

    Atomika on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil wrote: »
    Not surprising, really. Best Korea is just a headache for China at this point. Worst-case scenario ends with a nuclear war on China's border, trade disruption and all that.

    China's actually a pretty responsible member of the international community. They like trade, economic growth and stability. They'd be happy to see North Korea gone, but like the rest of the world they have no idea how to make that happen smoothly and peacefully.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil wrote: »

    This is when wiki leaks does the world some good. Its a shame that most of the leaked information is just silly goosery. Its going to be interesting to the NK response. I doubt NK is going to survive the succession crisis it faces. Maybe this will possibly lead to "saner" generals moving the country towards unification instead of constant paranoia of the world and maintaining a large military force it cannot maintain.

    Waffles or whatever on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil wrote: »

    My question is: If China pushes for reunification under the control of the South, and Seoul agrees, what does Pyongyang do?


    My gut feeling is self-immolation. Nuke everyone they can.

    There's always the European method of just setting up their descendants to prosper as frumpy figureheads and gossip pieces.

    Incenjucar on
  • DarkCrawlerDarkCrawler Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil wrote: »

    And right around the time of a figurehead change in NK as well. Not to mention the whole shelling the island thing.

    This might be big, or it might lead to nowhere. I hope it leads to somewhere good.

    DarkCrawler on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Fil wrote: »

    And right around the time of a figurehead change in NK as well. Not to mention the whole shelling the island thing.

    This might be big, or it might lead to nowhere. I hope it leads to somewhere good.

    Yes, hopefully this will put the pressure on NK and help move things towards a more peaceful reunification.

    Solar on
  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    -

    Andrew_Jay on
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