Uh, I explicitly chided Legend for doing all the things you mentioned. But I still enjoyed it more than I do Underworld. Some of that might just be the ravages of time, as I haven't played it in years, but I do maintain that it was a perfectly solid, enjoyable reboot for the series. At the time, anyway. Maybe my expectations are different today, I don't know. But I have in fact played Anniversary recently, and Underworld feels like a huge step down from that.
They probably were, and that's perfectly reasonable. And I acknowledged you chided some of those things.
Me, I thought Anniversary was a fine remake, but ultimately, limited by the fact (it actually has a few fewer possible actions than Legend).
With fewer options of exploration, fewer actions period, though...I played the two games at the same time, and I realized Anniversary was too much of the same--TRIII with prettier visuals and a second way to pull yourself off a ledge. That probably makes it more approachable, but to me, much more boring. It's like going back from Hitman Blood Money to Hitman II--but without the diversity of locals in the later. It doesn't make 2 a bad game by any means, but people expected a lot less at the time.
Given the comparisons between Uncharted 2 and Underworld--though not with Legend so much--it doesn't surprise me. I consider them fundamentally different kind of games (I'd be reluctant to compare Hitman and Splinter Cell), but that might just be an outdated way of thinking.
As long as we're naming gripes, I am kind of happy we're rebooting it so we can do away with the whole "Croft Family Mansion" thing. I have a feeling I'll be in a very small minority, but I like the idea of the Croft family - adventurers and explorers who have amassed wealth and live a life of luxury - but I honestly hate so much the "secret basement!" aspect that ALWAYS seems to crop up.
Maybe I just hated Underworld's so much that I feel like there was multiple times Lara had to venture within her own house, but it feels so forced and stupid on so many levels, and seems to bring otherwise semi-interesting stories to a halt for me.
Ancient civilizations building crazy intricate contraptions to hide insane, god-like power weapons? Totally awesome.
Dad hiding a note in his basement - but fills the basement with absolutely insane traps and crazy poles and switches? Stupid.
I find the mansion interesting as a set piece...but "exploring" it seems way too much like exploring another concrete bunker in Legend--not very good exploring. I actually don't care about the notion of a Croft Family, though I guess that makes for an interesting backdrop if done properly.
I don't want to explore a basement. I explored plenty of concrete holes in the ground in Legend (Kazakhstan, Tokyo, etc.)--at least make them interesting, like the Mexican underground or Underwater caverns in Underworld. If you have to do it, make it quick, like on the ship (and get it through fast).
More seriously, fewer encounters do contribute to an atmosphere where the individual counters can be pretty alarming. Versus--another platoon of mercenaries, oh, and a tiger.
On the other hand, if they went in the Lara & Totec direction--which was loads of co-op fun--you just keep up the pressure with sheer numbers.
I read the Game Informer article and I gotta' say, the game they describe sounds pretty great. I was chatting with a buddy the other day about the new Tomb Raider - after having seen the cover, but before having read the article - and he said,
"Yeah, I don't really give a shit about Tomb Raider."
"Well, me neither," I agreed, "there hasn't been a really good once since... Um. Since... okay, yeah - but if someone took the general conceit of a Tomb Raider game and combined that with the advancements that have been made in terms of 3D platforming, action and story? That's a great game. That sounds like a game I want to play."
And going off the Game Informer article, they're doing more than that - I love the "action survival" picture they're painting, here. I think if I saw an article for a game like that, with screenshots like that, and it had nothing to do with Lara Croft, it would be prominently placed on my radar.
To be honest, the thing that really reduces my confidence in the title is that it's still being made by the folks who made all those other Tomb Raider games.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I read the Game Informer article and I gotta' say, the game they describe sounds pretty great. I was chatting with a buddy the other day about the new Tomb Raider - after having seen the cover, but before having read the article - and he said,
"Yeah, I don't really give a shit about Tomb Raider."
"Well, me neither," I agreed, "there hasn't been a really good once since... Um. Since... okay, yeah - but if someone took the general conceit of a Tomb Raider game and combined that with the advancements that have been made in terms of 3D platforming, action and story? That's a great game. That sounds like a game I want to play."
And going off the Game Informer article, they're doing more than that - I love the "action survival" picture they're painting, here. I think if I saw an article for a game like that, with screenshots like that, and it had nothing to do with Lara Croft, it would be prominently placed on my radar.
To be honest, the thing that really reduces my confidence in the title is that it's still being made by the folks who made all those other Tomb Raider games.
Yeah, but they made Soul Reaver too! The first one was good!
Actually, now that I think about it, the first Soul Reaver was an excellent open-ish world game. In fact, IMO nothing Crystal Dynamics has done since has come close to the quality of that game. Not to say that they've all been bad, it's just that Soul Reaver was fantastic.
Hopefully I'll get my copy soon. How does the game look compared to the cover picture? That new design for Lara is ridiculously good, in both quality and "content." I just hope they give her an actual "adult" voice and not some teeny-bopper sounding VA.
EDIT: Soul Reaver blew my mind with the opening cutscene. Seeing the detail on Raziel's wings when Kain is all touchy-feely was amazing for its time.
Hopefully I'll get my copy soon. How does the game look compared to the cover picture? That new design for Lara is ridiculously good, in both quality and "content."
I just hope they give her an actual "adult" voice and not some teeny-bopper sounding VA.
Going on the scans of printed screenshots from the GI article, it's lookin' pretty good - at the very least, new Lara doesn't have a six-inch cinched waist. I'll put together a post about it on the blog and host some images.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Oh sweet, it just occurred to me that the "cover reveal" from the last issue of Game Informer ("A survivor is born") had me pretty excited. The wrecked ship was an awesome image. Knowing that that is from this gives me hope all on its own.
Wow, that sounds awesome if they deliver. I love the idea of a Metroidvania survival sim, and I'm an enormous sucker for games that are Indiana Jones-ish in nature (that is to say, bending history and artifact hunting and the like).
This is officially high on my radar now. Not as high as Arkham City (sorry UVow), but high up there.
Guardian of Light was so much better than it had any business being. A friend and I waited patiently for months for the co-op patch, and played through it over the last couple weeks. Figuring out some of the puzzles/bonus objectives is some of the most fun I've ever had in a co-op game.
This thread also reminded me I have an account with TR Ann on PC. Just played it for a bit and a) level design, nostalgia are great b) I need to find my gamepad because I really can't shoot stuff in this game with mouse+keyboard and c) the T-rex fight was totally broke'd. Just kept getting stuck on the walls (ironic since the room is huge). Thankfully I did get one hazard to trigger, otherwise it would have taken me an hour to whittle him down. Also, I've been taking my time and exploring the levels, and have not found a single artifact/relic yet. Good times.
There is some excellent stuff in there, gonna throw this in the OP, if you don't mind, that is?
EDIT: I've thrown it in already because I'm about to go get some sleep, but if for whatever reason you want it gone, drop me a PM and I'll get on it first thing tomorrow
mr-razzcocks on
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
Well, my caveat is that the new Tomb Raider sounds great if they pull it off, and CD's given me limited indication that they're capable of that.
Personally, I don't really need a whole lot out of a Tomb Raider game. I'm used to stuff being kind of busted. As long as I get some decent puzzles, I'm good. Anything past that is gravy, and this is potentially some pretty tasty gravy.
As long as we're naming gripes, I am kind of happy we're rebooting it so we can do away with the whole "Croft Family Mansion" thing. I have a feeling I'll be in a very small minority, but I like the idea of the Croft family - adventurers and explorers who have amassed wealth and live a life of luxury - but I honestly hate so much the "secret basement!" aspect that ALWAYS seems to crop up.
I thought it was a really novel idea in the original Tomb Raider (which coincidentally had the Lara with the sweetest voice, cutely explaining that "Oh there are boxes here from some artifacts being moved in...")
After that, not so much.
Though trapping the butler in the freezer was always fun
I want to see actual screens. Just got game informer, and its pretty clear all these shots are artists rendering. They look great, but I'm pretty sure they haven't shown anything in game yet.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
I think the first three TR games had the same V/A for Lara. She was very soft-spoken by comparison--for better or worse.
Best part of Legend--driving the unstoppable forklift. No doubts whatsoever. I would happily get behind driving the forklift through walls, traps, more walls, etc.--way better than any 20-man gunfight. Bring back the forklift, CD.
She had a total man-voice in TRII and III. Her voice actress for TLR through to AoD was alright, but a lot of the time she sounded like she really couldn't be bothered with what she was doing.
Razzcocks, you've got a very flexible definition of man voice.
And most of what I remember of AoD's voice acting was loud grunting whilst pushing objects so...I'll have to take you're word for it. Maybe I was just watching a bad part of the game, heh.
Meh, I dunno, none of them were brilliant, by any stretch, but TLR, C, and AoD's actress annoyed me a lot less than the others, except for when she was putting on the little girl voice for the young Lara.
All this being said, I love me some Keeley Hawes and will be very disappointed if she doesn't do the next one
Yeah, I wouldn't say this is my most wanted either, but after the GI article, it went from "Hrm, that might be neat" to, "I must play this." And I didn't even really play that many TR games. It just sounds that good.
After reading the entire GI article -- this is literally, LOST the videogame (but good). That's a good thing.
But seriously - I mean, there are scenes described in that GI that are lifted, almost word for word, from LOST. The plot sounds exactly the same. I absolutely LOVE LOST, so I am MORE than fine with this, but when I got to the part that was talking about how no matter what they try, they cant escape the pull of this island, I couldn't believe that after mysterious crash/some survivors but not many/local 'hostiles'/description of an abandoned plane exploration that happened on the show, that the article didnt at least aknowledge that it feels HEAVILY inspired by the show.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
I just went back and played Legends. Did you know that you couldn't even use the over-the-shoulder manual aiming mode without being stuck to the ground? It's some seriously whack Resident Evil 4 aiming. And your pistols were wildly inaccurate when aiming at anything past 8 feet. Ugh, just terrible.
the manual aiming was utterly useless anyway, except for a couple of parts where you had to shoot a hook or something. even then, most of them you could just use the auto-target-hazard function
Yeah, pretty much no purpose--god forbid you use it in a gunfight, with a minimum seven dudes (and potentially many more) running back and forth awkwardly while taking pot shots at you.
So since they announced that there weren't gonna be anymore models for Tomb Raider games, I thought maybe we could reminisce about past models. I'd have to say that my favorite was either Alison Carroll or Nell McAndrew. Alison Carroll I believe was the one they hired for Tomb Raider Legends and was an actual gymnast, which was pretty cool. She could pull off a lot of the moves that you saw Lara do in the game. The worst models were Rhona Mitra and Karima Adebibe. Specially Rhona Mitra, she looked like a man.
Who were your favorites?
Delta Assault on
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
After reading the entire GI article -- this is literally, LOST the videogame (but good). That's a good thing.
But seriously - I mean, there are scenes described in that GI that are lifted, almost word for word, from LOST. The plot sounds exactly the same. I absolutely LOVE LOST, so I am MORE than fine with this, but when I got to the part that was talking about how no matter what they try, they cant escape the pull of this island, I couldn't believe that after mysterious crash/some survivors but not many/local 'hostiles'/description of an abandoned plane exploration that happened on the show, that the article didnt at least aknowledge that it feels HEAVILY inspired by the show.
Goddammit, mxmarks. Now I want frequent kidnappings by an oppressive man with funny glasses and interactive flashbacks in which Lara kersplodes her creepy, abusive stepfather. And Desmond Hume. I don't even care if it doesn't make sense for Desmond Hume to be there.
So since they announced that there weren't gonna be anymore models for Tomb Raider games, I thought maybe we could reminisce about past models. I'd have to say that my favorite was either Alison Carroll or Nell McAndrew. Alison Carroll I believe was the one they hired for Tomb Raider Legends and was an actual gymnast, which was pretty cool. She could pull off a lot of the moves that you saw Lara do in the game. The worst models were Rhona Mitra and Karima Adebibe. Specially Rhona Mitra, she looked like a man.
Who were your favorites?
Oh! There was a Kotaku article on this the other day, so I know the answer! Rhona Mitra. She's like, half the reason I have Doomsday on bluray - a British Mad Max, except super hot.
Chance on
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
As of 1 year ago, QA was expected to be an 18-24 month commitment. I don't think QA started in full until March? I'm pretty sure maybe a few people were on board from November-Feb/March, then the full QA team was hired.
So yeah, we're looking at another 9-15 months of QA at least, most likely. 2012 at the EARLIEST.
Posts
They probably were, and that's perfectly reasonable. And I acknowledged you chided some of those things.
Me, I thought Anniversary was a fine remake, but ultimately, limited by the fact (it actually has a few fewer possible actions than Legend).
With fewer options of exploration, fewer actions period, though...I played the two games at the same time, and I realized Anniversary was too much of the same--TRIII with prettier visuals and a second way to pull yourself off a ledge. That probably makes it more approachable, but to me, much more boring. It's like going back from Hitman Blood Money to Hitman II--but without the diversity of locals in the later. It doesn't make 2 a bad game by any means, but people expected a lot less at the time.
Given the comparisons between Uncharted 2 and Underworld--though not with Legend so much--it doesn't surprise me. I consider them fundamentally different kind of games (I'd be reluctant to compare Hitman and Splinter Cell), but that might just be an outdated way of thinking.
I find the mansion interesting as a set piece...but "exploring" it seems way too much like exploring another concrete bunker in Legend--not very good exploring. I actually don't care about the notion of a Croft Family, though I guess that makes for an interesting backdrop if done properly.
I don't want to explore a basement. I explored plenty of concrete holes in the ground in Legend (Kazakhstan, Tokyo, etc.)--at least make them interesting, like the Mexican underground or Underwater caverns in Underworld. If you have to do it, make it quick, like on the ship (and get it through fast).
More seriously, fewer encounters do contribute to an atmosphere where the individual counters can be pretty alarming. Versus--another platoon of mercenaries, oh, and a tiger.
On the other hand, if they went in the Lara & Totec direction--which was loads of co-op fun--you just keep up the pressure with sheer numbers.
"Yeah, I don't really give a shit about Tomb Raider."
"Well, me neither," I agreed, "there hasn't been a really good once since... Um. Since... okay, yeah - but if someone took the general conceit of a Tomb Raider game and combined that with the advancements that have been made in terms of 3D platforming, action and story? That's a great game. That sounds like a game I want to play."
And going off the Game Informer article, they're doing more than that - I love the "action survival" picture they're painting, here. I think if I saw an article for a game like that, with screenshots like that, and it had nothing to do with Lara Croft, it would be prominently placed on my radar.
To be honest, the thing that really reduces my confidence in the title is that it's still being made by the folks who made all those other Tomb Raider games.
Yeah, but they made Soul Reaver too! The first one was good!
Actually, now that I think about it, the first Soul Reaver was an excellent open-ish world game. In fact, IMO nothing Crystal Dynamics has done since has come close to the quality of that game. Not to say that they've all been bad, it's just that Soul Reaver was fantastic.
EDIT: Soul Reaver blew my mind with the opening cutscene. Seeing the detail on Raziel's wings when Kain is all touchy-feely was amazing for its time.
Going on the scans of printed screenshots from the GI article, it's lookin' pretty good - at the very least, new Lara doesn't have a six-inch cinched waist. I'll put together a post about it on the blog and host some images.
I am easily amused, it seems.
This sounds great.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Wow, that sounds awesome if they deliver. I love the idea of a Metroidvania survival sim, and I'm an enormous sucker for games that are Indiana Jones-ish in nature (that is to say, bending history and artifact hunting and the like).
This is officially high on my radar now. Not as high as Arkham City (sorry UVow), but high up there.
Guardian of Light was so much better than it had any business being. A friend and I waited patiently for months for the co-op patch, and played through it over the last couple weeks. Figuring out some of the puzzles/bonus objectives is some of the most fun I've ever had in a co-op game.
This thread also reminded me I have an account with TR Ann on PC. Just played it for a bit and a) level design, nostalgia are great b) I need to find my gamepad because I really can't shoot stuff in this game with mouse+keyboard and c) the T-rex fight was totally broke'd. Just kept getting stuck on the walls (ironic since the room is huge). Thankfully I did get one hazard to trigger, otherwise it would have taken me an hour to whittle him down. Also, I've been taking my time and exploring the levels, and have not found a single artifact/relic yet. Good times.
There is some excellent stuff in there, gonna throw this in the OP, if you don't mind, that is?
EDIT: I've thrown it in already because I'm about to go get some sleep, but if for whatever reason you want it gone, drop me a PM and I'll get on it first thing tomorrow
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
I thought it was a really novel idea in the original Tomb Raider (which coincidentally had the Lara with the sweetest voice, cutely explaining that "Oh there are boxes here from some artifacts being moved in...")
After that, not so much.
Though trapping the butler in the freezer was always fun
I especially love their exchange during that entire level where you go to the King Arthur exhibit
Best part of Legend--driving the unstoppable forklift. No doubts whatsoever. I would happily get behind driving the forklift through walls, traps, more walls, etc.--way better than any 20-man gunfight. Bring back the forklift, CD.
Nope
I'm not sure about III, but I and II definitely had a different voice actress
I played the first game non-stop and when I grabbed TRII it was jarring
EDIT: Shelley Blond for the first, Judith Gibbins for II and III
EDIT: Having checked imdb, yup, 2 and 3 had the same voice actress. Which makes sense, she's not as soft-spoken as in the first game.
And most of what I remember of AoD's voice acting was loud grunting whilst pushing objects so...I'll have to take you're word for it. Maybe I was just watching a bad part of the game, heh.
All this being said, I love me some Keeley Hawes and will be very disappointed if she doesn't do the next one
Awuhhhh? I wouldn't go that far.
And then, maybe,
But seriously - I mean, there are scenes described in that GI that are lifted, almost word for word, from LOST. The plot sounds exactly the same. I absolutely LOVE LOST, so I am MORE than fine with this, but when I got to the part that was talking about how no matter what they try, they cant escape the pull of this island, I couldn't believe that after mysterious crash/some survivors but not many/local 'hostiles'/description of an abandoned plane exploration that happened on the show, that the article didnt at least aknowledge that it feels HEAVILY inspired by the show.
Also, the framerate sucked.
Who were your favorites?
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Oh! There was a Kotaku article on this the other day, so I know the answer! Rhona Mitra. She's like, half the reason I have Doomsday on bluray - a British Mad Max, except super hot.
As of 1 year ago, QA was expected to be an 18-24 month commitment. I don't think QA started in full until March? I'm pretty sure maybe a few people were on board from November-Feb/March, then the full QA team was hired.
So yeah, we're looking at another 9-15 months of QA at least, most likely. 2012 at the EARLIEST.
So full of fail.