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Wedding Cheese [chat]

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    Rear Admiral ChocoRear Admiral Choco I wanna be an owl, Jerry! Owl York CityRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ugh. This kitty is in heat and has expectations of me I'm just not going to carry out.

    Go away, kitty!

    Rear Admiral Choco on
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    KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    The washing machine sounds particularly loud, which usually is mildly worrying

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
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    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    My favorite crazy theory is the belief in a thought cloud, or some kind of intrinsic mind connection we all passively share and are unaware of it for the most part.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I'm pretty sure genetic memory is a thing

    I mean it's not like, actual memories, it describes a phenomenon that has nothing at all to do with that, it's just some shit genes do but they decided to just go with the first thing you think when you hear those words

    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know how to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.

    That's not memories at all

    genetic memory is just a name that doesn't mean what you think it means

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ugh. This kitty is in heat and has expectations of me I'm just not going to carry out.

    Go away, kitty!

    I'm sure they make cat dildos.

    Couscous on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I'm pretty sure genetic memory is a thing

    I mean it's not like, actual memories, it describes a phenomenon that has nothing at all to do with that, it's just some shit genes do but they decided to just go with the first thing you think when you hear those words

    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know how to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.

    er, this isn't exactly true

    you realize that most animals don't know how to do this stuff instantly right? like baby birds are actually taught how to fly and sing?

    Arch on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited December 2010
    Couscous wrote: »
    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know of to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.
    Those aren't memories.

    they are things your body knows how to do, that your ancestors did, without any coercing or training on your part.

    Memory can lead to reflex (training with a gun so much that you can "quick draw" without consciously thinking about all the steps is still a form of memory).

    I am not saying a kid should be able to bust out of the womb singing Webber because mommy was in Phantom, but I do think that evolutionary, genetic "memories" are real.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Preacher wrote: »
    My favorite crazy theory is the belief in a thought cloud, or some kind of intrinsic mind connection we all passively share and are unaware of it for the most part.

    noosphere!

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
  • Options
    japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ugh. This kitty is in heat and has expectations of me I'm just not going to carry out.

    Go away, kitty!

    Christ I remember that happening the first year we had our cats, before they were fixed.

    We had to shut them in seperate rooms (we have a boy cat and a girl cat) and the boy cat shredded a huge area of carpet trying to tunnel under the door, or something.

    japan on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I always wonder things like how does a spider know how to build a web. not sure if that is related.

    the idea of your genes storing actual memories is very silly but it leads me back to that question.

    these are questions we do not have an answer to, but "memory" and "behavior" and "instinct" are different concepts, and the distinction is important

    a popular hypothesis for web-building and other behaviors is that these actions are a function of biology- one example is the perfectly hexagonal hives built by bees emerges as they build the hives- they dont intentionally make hexagons, it just happens as they cram more in, and they are more space efficient.

    I say that animals are smarter than we give them credit for

    i say that all of the time. most folks look at me like an idiot though so whatever.

    glad i'm not missing something important when my brain landed on the big "wtf" when it came to animals just knowing how to do certain things or figuring them out without being taught. It's really quite amazing.

    DasUberEdward on
    steam_sig.png
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know of to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.
    Those aren't memories.

    they are things your body knows how to do, that your ancestors did, without any coercing or training on your part.

    Memory can lead to reflex (training with a gun so much that you can "quick draw" without consciously thinking about all the steps is still a form of memory).

    I am not saying a kid should be able to bust out of the womb singing Webber because mommy was in Phantom, but I do think that evolutionary, genetic "memories" are real.

    Well you'd be mistaken then.

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited December 2010
    Arch wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I'm pretty sure genetic memory is a thing

    I mean it's not like, actual memories, it describes a phenomenon that has nothing at all to do with that, it's just some shit genes do but they decided to just go with the first thing you think when you hear those words

    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know how to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.

    er, this isn't exactly true

    you realize that most animals don't know how to do this stuff instantly right? like baby birds are actually taught how to fly and sing?
    so animals that do not see other animals eat, hunt or procreate just curl up into a ball and die?

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Kalkino wrote: »
    The washing machine sounds particularly loud, which usually is mildly worrying

    Is it draining adequately or taking longer than usual to do so?

    It might just be that it is unevenly loaded.

    japan on
  • Options
    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I'm pretty sure genetic memory is a thing

    I mean it's not like, actual memories, it describes a phenomenon that has nothing at all to do with that, it's just some shit genes do but they decided to just go with the first thing you think when you hear those words

    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know how to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.

    er, this isn't exactly true

    you realize that most animals don't know how to do this stuff instantly right? like baby birds are actually taught how to fly and sing?
    so animals that do not see other animals eat, hunt or procreate just curl up into a ball and die?

    non-social animals are worse at surviving generally, yes

    Arch on
  • Options
    PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    My favorite crazy theory is the belief in a thought cloud, or some kind of intrinsic mind connection we all passively share and are unaware of it for the most part.

    noosphere!

    Is that what its called? I like the idea, its batshit, but not in a harmful way.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • Options
    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Ugh. This kitty is in heat and has expectations of me I'm just not going to carry out.

    Go away, kitty!

    Aren't you supposed to give them catnip when they're frisky?

    emnmnme on
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    CindersCinders Whose sails were black when it was windy Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Select the Q-Tip, and then, select your cat.

    Cinders on
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I'm pretty sure genetic memory is a thing

    I mean it's not like, actual memories, it describes a phenomenon that has nothing at all to do with that, it's just some shit genes do but they decided to just go with the first thing you think when you hear those words

    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know how to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.

    er, this isn't exactly true

    you realize that most animals don't know how to do this stuff instantly right? like baby birds are actually taught how to fly and sing?
    so animals that do not see other animals eat, hunt or procreate just curl up into a ball and die?
    genetic instinct is not genetic memory
    sorry!
    TAKE THAT EVOPSYCH

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Cinders wrote: »
    Select the Q-Tip, and then, select your cat.
    217538225_Frjt9-L-2.jpg

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    they are things your body knows how to do, that your ancestors did, without any coercing or training on your part.

    Memory can lead to reflex (training with a gun so much that you can "quick draw" without consciously thinking about all the steps is still a form of memory).
    I don't have instincts because my parents did. I have instincts because my parents had the genes responsible for those instincts. My parents never had to do those things in order for me to have the instincts. Instincts are hardwired. Memories are not.

    Couscous on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited December 2010
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you/me up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    MOST IMPORTANT FINAL OF MY LIFE IN LESS THAN ONE HOUR
    woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    I am moderately prepared, only thing I'm glossing is electrochemistry, because it is witchcraft!!!

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    japan wrote: »
    Kalkino wrote: »
    The washing machine sounds particularly loud, which usually is mildly worrying

    Is it draining adequately or taking longer than usual to do so?

    It might just be that it is unevenly loaded.

    It seems to have stopped, so I'll assume that is good news

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    The idea of genetic memory just makes no goddamn sense.

    why?

    memories are not encoded in the nucleotides, for one, and are events that occur epigenetically

    we dont know exactly how memories are stored yet, but i can at least say that it isnt in the gene

    I'm pretty sure genetic memory is a thing

    I mean it's not like, actual memories, it describes a phenomenon that has nothing at all to do with that, it's just some shit genes do but they decided to just go with the first thing you think when you hear those words

    Genetic memory is very real; we just ascribe it to instincts and not specific things that happened in your life.

    Birds know how to fly, bipeds know how to walk, everything knows how to fuck, etc.

    er, this isn't exactly true

    you realize that most animals don't know how to do this stuff instantly right? like baby birds are actually taught how to fly and sing?
    so animals that do not see other animals eat, hunt or procreate just curl up into a ball and die?

    Some do, actually. Others do fine. But it is not due to memories, or "memories"

    people aren't born with the skills of their forefathers, or even a little of them

    people breathe and fuck and eat and such, yes, but if your father got great at fucking does not mean you will be

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
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    emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Instinct =/= Memory
    Instinct = Instinct

    emnmnme on
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.
    that is not memory
    memory implies metacognition
    only a select few animals can metacognate
    including dolphins, some great apes, and some mammals

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.

    its because the words are intrinsically important syndalis.

    instincts are NOT memories, and genetic memory ala ass creed is a silly idea that is demonstrably false

    and the modern day dude being an awesome assassin because his parents were is dangerously lamarck

    but it is a game so whatever

    Arch on
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you/me up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.

    No, we do not want to call it memory because it is due to something that is entirely unlike memory, simple as that

    also you seem to be implying that you think inheritance of acquired characteristics (look up lamarck) is a thing

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you/me up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.

    Some behaviours arise from instincts with biological roots. These are subject to selection pressure and are just part of the biological machinery of the animal.

    "Memory" suggests something that arose as part of a mental process. That can't be passed on genetically.

    japan on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    also bird-of-paradise dance is a learned behavior

    so uh

    EDIT: as in the young birds practice it for YEARS, often in the presence of a successful male

    Arch on
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    although important side note
    lamarck wasn't totally wrong
    that was one of the sadder anecdotes of science
    poor lamarck ):

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    although important side note
    lamarck wasn't totally wrong
    that was one of the sadder anecdotes of science
    poor lamarck ):

    moral of the story: fuck up once, be mocked forever

    Abdhyius on
    ftOqU21.png
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    BobCescaBobCesca Is a girl Birmingham, UKRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Things I am learning from the plagiarism thread:

    either essays are written differently in US HEIs, or most people have no clue what academic research is.

    BobCesca on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    although important side note
    lamarck wasn't totally wrong
    that was one of the sadder anecdotes of science
    poor lamarck ):

    E P I G E N E T I C S

    EDIT: although there is argument that epigenetic inheritance is true inheritance and whether or not it is actually subject to selection buuuuuuuuut

    Arch on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited December 2010
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you/me up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.

    No, we do not want to call it memory because it is due to something that is entirely unlike memory, simple as that

    also you seem to be implying that you think inheritance of acquired characteristics (look up lamarck) is a thing

    I am in no way defending Assassin's creed's level that they took it, and I sure as shit am not defending Lamarck-style genetics in any way whatsoever.

    I am just saying that there are some things, NOT related to parent but perhaps species or regional evolution over a very VERY long time that lend themselves to pre-aquired, NON-physical inheritance of ability. Some of which can be hauntingly complex (again, see birds of paradise). These things are recalled by the performer of them as they are needed.

    This is not what is happening in Assbro at all, but it is fascinating, and I am sure was part of the cornerstone that they used to craft their plot about aliens and the garden of eden and lolconspiracy.

    syndalis on
    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    although important side note
    lamarck wasn't totally wrong
    that was one of the sadder anecdotes of science
    poor lamarck ):

    moral of the story: fuck up once, be mocked forever
    we didn't know about epigenetics then
    whoooooops

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    edited December 2010
    what about monarch butterfly migration

    I'm not arguing for genetic memory mind, the butterfly stuff is just fascinating and I want to see a geek opine on it

    Hakkekage on
    3DS: 2165 - 6538 - 3417
    NNID: Hakkekage
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    Most mammals and birds need to learn a lot to survive. They need to know what foods are good and won't kill them and will quickly die if raised in captivity and then released in the wild. It is why groups that release animals into the wild have to make sure that they will be able to survive.

    Couscous on
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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    BobCesca wrote: »
    Things I am learning from the plagiarism thread:

    either essays are written differently in US HEIs, or most people have no clue what academic research is.
    in America, it doesn't really exist undergraduate for liberal arts

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
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    ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    edited December 2010
    syndalis wrote: »
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Okay, so it is just words that are messing you/me up then.

    You can accept that a creature knows how to do some things without being trained on how to do them, but you do not want to call it memory, even though these rote responses (like the fucking crazy dances the birds of paradise do) require some level of brain activity to recall them, even if its not from a conscious place.

    No, we do not want to call it memory because it is due to something that is entirely unlike memory, simple as that

    also you seem to be implying that you think inheritance of acquired characteristics (look up lamarck) is a thing

    I am in no way defending Assassin's creed's level that they took it, and I sure as shit am not defending Lamarck-style genetics in any way whatsoever.

    I am just saying that there are some things, NOT related to parent but perhaps species or regional evolution over a very VERY long time that lend themselves to pre-aquired, NON-physical inheritance of ability. Some of which can be hauntingly complex (again, see birds of paradise). These things are recalled by the performer of them as they are needed.

    This is not what is happening in Assbro at all, but it is fascinating, and I am sure was part of the cornerstone that they used to craft their plot about aliens and the garden of eden and lolconspiracy.

    again birds of paradise displays (and most displays like that ) are learned behaviors

    Arch on
This discussion has been closed.