Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."
RDR really wowed in the end
ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end
Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going
The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.
And in terms of ME2, I felt like the final boss itself actually cast a shadow over all the concentrated awesomeness that had took place in the rest of the final act of the game, which is really Bioware's own fault, since they seemed to specifically try to make the spectacle of the robot human reaper thing have as much of an awe factor as possible. Compare it to ME1, where the actual final battle with Saren wasn't the center of the scene, but the space battle with the Sovereign.
Brad needs to just learn he's not very good at games that aren't Starcraft
because
I saved everyone on my first runthrough of ME2 and that was 48 hours after it came out which means there were no guides for survival, the game just makes it pretty clear that you need everything you can get to survive that mission
You're right, it is very clear that you need everything you can get. So when you do a story mission and then you know that the next mission is where shit gets crazy, you know that you should go and clear up everything else to be in tip-top shape for what lies beyond, right? After all, they even tell you explicitly to go do anything you haven't done yet because you aren't coming back.
But then therein lies the problem because
the time you spend doing those extra side missions is a factor that they don't worry about. It certainly doesn't help that Brad apparently can't except multiple endings as a thing - that there is just a best ending or failure.
Really I think that's a bit more of a problem with storytelling in games conditioning us that time is just a nebulous thing between Main Story Point X and Main Story Point Y, instead of any fault on Mass Effect 2's part.
Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."
RDR really wowed in the end
ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end
Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going
The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.
I agree.
And, coincidentally, Mass Effect 2 does the same thing. Collector threat? Eh, whatever. Helping out Mordin Solus? Hell yes!
I enjoyed every aspect of RDR's story, but only really dug the loyalty missions in ME2
And the podcast spoiled the Shadow Broker for me as promised but I don't think it was that big of a deal. If anything it makes me really want to jump into it soon and read those dossiers.
UnbreakableVow on
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
the reapers repurpose themselves as the race they feel has hit the peak in that 50,000 year cycle or whatever it is
it was a little bit silly but nowhere near what Brad was arguing
I think it's more that any Reaper that they create is made from a certain species, so they make it look like the species that was harvested to create it
But yes it was totally adequate to explain it's appearance
But the argument against wasn't that it was unexplained, it was that the only way for the story to go was to a bad boss.
If the end boss had been a giant robot that looked like a robot, like Jeff suggested, then that would have been totally unexplained and not in line with the story. Which was kinda weird, because that also suggest that Jeff didn't really get the story but was still arguing for it.
No, Jeff was saying that if it were a giant robot that looked like a robot, Brad wouldn't be whining about it
It's a stupid thing to whine about the appearance of a final boss as though it were important to the story in any truly meaningful way
Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."
RDR really wowed in the end
ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end
Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going
The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.
I really don't know how anyone can think the things that you are saying
Because they are completely backwards
The individual mission storylines were well-presented and well-acted but were a means to an end
The main plot, in particular the last few missions and the little epilogue, were absolutely fucking excellent and had some serious thematic shit going on
The idea that Rockstar made a giant video game with millions of dollars for a budget, and then made it a tragedy, is the ballsiest thing a video game has done this year
Even more so than Mass Effect 2 creating a video game out of a series of character studies
I ordered RDR again just for the shit of it (and also 'cause I wanna try Undead Nightmare), and I am going to be playing this at some point during the epilogue missions
The epilogue is indeed fantastic. In fact, as much as I adore ME2, I'll admit that RDR deserves to win best story of 2010.
But the issue for me is that John Marsten's revenge plot didn't get interesting to me until around the time the government agents got directly involved.
Stilts on
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
I ordered RDR again just for the shit of it (and also 'cause I wanna try Undead Nightmare), and I am going to be playing this at some point during the epilogue missions
The epilogue is indeed fantastic. In fact, as much as I adore ME2, I'll admit that RDR deserves to win best story of 2010.
But the issue for me is that John Marsten's revenge plot didn't get interesting to me until around the time the government agents got directly involved.
Well that's the whole point, isn't it
That's when the game goes full-on revisionist western, after all
I liked all the little hints at the backstory that they laid out during the horseback rides where John alluded to a lot of shit that made me very interested in him and his associates as characters
And the beautiful part of it? A lot of it is never laid out for the player! they don't shoehorn in Marston monologuing about some particularly terrible thing to another character about the exact moment when shit went bad, or the exact moment when something bad happened. You're just meant to infer a lot
Yeah, that's where I'm at. RDR does more than a few things with it's story that are confident and subtle that are definitely worth recognizing and encouraging, but ME2, goddamn.
I loved RDR, and it's in my top 5 for the year. But if Mexico had been significantly trimmed down or even cut out, the game would have been a much better experience overall.
I loved RDR, and it's in my top 5 for the year. But if Mexico had been significantly trimmed down or even cut out, the game would have been a much better experience overall.
Yeah, every time I replay it I get stuck in Mexico. The plot loses some momentum, it's hard to get around, and there are a lot of annoying missions.
I will say that ME2 is set in a much more interesting universe, but RDR has a better story, if only because it's not the middle part of a trilogy. ME2's story is somewhat lacking by design.
Much like any other Rockstar game, there are some really interesting thematic and contextual ideas running in the background, but the narrative thread meanders all over the place, with constant insane, often irrelevant diversions, and as a whole it takes forever to get to its actual point.
I thought there was a masterful story within RDR, but the pacing and structure was absolutely shoddy. In contrast, that's something ME 2 does immaculately.
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
0
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
the reapers repurpose themselves as the race they feel has hit the peak in that 50,000 year cycle or whatever it is
it was a little bit silly but nowhere near what Brad was arguing
I think it's more that any Reaper that they create is made from a certain species, so they make it look like the species that was harvested to create it
But yes it was totally adequate to explain it's appearance
But the argument against wasn't that it was unexplained, it was that the only way for the story to go was to a bad boss.
If the end boss had been a giant robot that looked like a robot, like Jeff suggested, then that would have been totally unexplained and not in line with the story. Which was kinda weird, because that also suggest that Jeff didn't really get the story but was still arguing for it.
No, Jeff was saying that if it were a giant robot that looked like a robot, Brad wouldn't be whining about it
It's a stupid thing to whine about the appearance of a final boss as though it were important to the story in any truly meaningful way
Though I do think there's truth to that bit from Adaptation: "Wow 'em in the end, and you've got a hit."
RDR really wowed in the end
ME2 was the opposite of wowing in the end. It was whimpering in the end
Alan Wake's gameplay was too bad for me to continue playing, which is a shame, 'cause I liked where the story was going
The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.
I really don't know how anyone can think the things that you are saying
Because they are completely backwards
The individual mission storylines were well-presented and well-acted but were a means to an end
The main plot, in particular the last few missions and the little epilogue, were absolutely fucking excellent and had some serious thematic shit going on
The idea that Rockstar made a giant video game with millions of dollars for a budget, and then made it a tragedy, is the ballsiest thing a video game has done this year
Even more so than Mass Effect 2 creating a video game out of a series of character studies
Man if you were going into a western and not expecting a tragedy then you just haven't seen enough westerns.
The only western that comes to mind as having a totally happy ending is Back to the Future 3.
Hey, a gaming podcast thread, or should I say, "Hey, A bombcast thread!"? I guess since they are the only ones who have some updates this week they get the focus.
I've listened to all of the GoTY discussions and I'm listening to day 4 now. The only thing I've realized is that I haven't played anything besides Mass Effect 2 and Bad Company 2 this year. I should really quit WoW and broaden my gaming horizons.
I do find the discussions funny, but a little tiresome after a while. That first day was a fucking endurance match of wills.
Posts
The actual revenge/redemption part of RDR might have been the weakest part of the story, like I found myself extremely disinterested with why Marston was doing everything he was doing. But the storylines that revolved around each mission character, for instance, were often very engaging and there was some pretty powerful storytelling going on.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Aren't their PC ports usually less than stellar?
You're right, it is very clear that you need everything you can get. So when you do a story mission and then you know that the next mission is where shit gets crazy, you know that you should go and clear up everything else to be in tip-top shape for what lies beyond, right? After all, they even tell you explicitly to go do anything you haven't done yet because you aren't coming back.
But then therein lies the problem because
Really I think that's a bit more of a problem with storytelling in games conditioning us that time is just a nebulous thing between Main Story Point X and Main Story Point Y, instead of any fault on Mass Effect 2's part.
I agree.
And, coincidentally, Mass Effect 2 does the same thing. Collector threat? Eh, whatever. Helping out Mordin Solus? Hell yes!
I enjoyed every aspect of RDR's story, but only really dug the loyalty missions in ME2
And the podcast spoiled the Shadow Broker for me as promised but I don't think it was that big of a deal. If anything it makes me really want to jump into it soon and read those dossiers.
No, Jeff was saying that if it were a giant robot that looked like a robot, Brad wouldn't be whining about it
It's a stupid thing to whine about the appearance of a final boss as though it were important to the story in any truly meaningful way
I really don't know how anyone can think the things that you are saying
Because they are completely backwards
The individual mission storylines were well-presented and well-acted but were a means to an end
The main plot, in particular the last few missions and the little epilogue, were absolutely fucking excellent and had some serious thematic shit going on
The idea that Rockstar made a giant video game with millions of dollars for a budget, and then made it a tragedy, is the ballsiest thing a video game has done this year
Even more so than Mass Effect 2 creating a video game out of a series of character studies
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Which means I spent 12 hours fucking around the first area and then completely got bored of it.
Fuckin' the very last cutscene in the game?
Fuck
How did they make that so fucking good
How did they do it
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
But the setup was pretty brilliant
Just herding cattle with my son
I ordered RDR again just for the shit of it (and also 'cause I wanna try Undead Nightmare), and I am going to be playing this at some point during the epilogue missions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VILWkqlQLWk
The epilogue is indeed fantastic. In fact, as much as I adore ME2, I'll admit that RDR deserves to win best story of 2010.
But the issue for me is that John Marsten's revenge plot didn't get interesting to me until around the time the government agents got directly involved.
Those are all well and good but the last mission? The one right before the credits?
That shit
hoooooo man
that's the best shit
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Well that's the whole point, isn't it
That's when the game goes full-on revisionist western, after all
I liked all the little hints at the backstory that they laid out during the horseback rides where John alluded to a lot of shit that made me very interested in him and his associates as characters
And the beautiful part of it? A lot of it is never laid out for the player! they don't shoehorn in Marston monologuing about some particularly terrible thing to another character about the exact moment when shit went bad, or the exact moment when something bad happened. You're just meant to infer a lot
That is fantastic
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
It's not too subtle, and I agree, it's pretty amazing
Officially adding your names to the list, underneath Shoemaker
Is this where we add your name to another list, underneath Gerstmann, for just talking about how wrong we are without explaining why you think so?
I've already been over this in the RDR thread, so I know debating it isn't going to change anyone's mind
But it's blowing my mind how you can think that
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
edit: Not to mention redundant.
What part?
I'm just being a dick, to be honest.
but that's just me
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
Yeah, every time I replay it I get stuck in Mexico. The plot loses some momentum, it's hard to get around, and there are a lot of annoying missions.
I will say that ME2 is set in a much more interesting universe, but RDR has a better story, if only because it's not the middle part of a trilogy. ME2's story is somewhat lacking by design.
Also, the ending of RDR is amazing.
Wouldn't call it a bad game but I'm surprised that anyone's praising the story.
Talk to her and smooth things over.
"Pastiche" alone does not necessarily carry a negative connotation
I thought there was a masterful story within RDR, but the pacing and structure was absolutely shoddy. In contrast, that's something ME 2 does immaculately.
Now I don't know which side of this Red Dead's story argument is comprised of idiots, seeing as I didn't play that game. Mostly because
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Man if you were going into a western and not expecting a tragedy then you just haven't seen enough westerns.
The only western that comes to mind as having a totally happy ending is Back to the Future 3.
http://vyou.com/jeffg
I've listened to all of the GoTY discussions and I'm listening to day 4 now. The only thing I've realized is that I haven't played anything besides Mass Effect 2 and Bad Company 2 this year. I should really quit WoW and broaden my gaming horizons.
I do find the discussions funny, but a little tiresome after a while. That first day was a fucking endurance match of wills.