I concur with those arguing that SSFIV should be included. Not only is it a standalone game but I know people who have played it and not played SFIV, so it would be unfair to consider it an expansion when it is not only possible, but probable to some degree, that many people had their first SFIV exposure by playing this game. In contrast you could not have played an RDR or Borderlands expansion without necessarily playing the original game.
OK thanks everyone! Will update with these many additions in a minute. Gotta go double check titles on wikipedia...
Whoever it was that was talking about indie games: There are quite a few indie games on here, I'm soliciting nominations over at TIG and I'm actually planning (like I did last year) on recognizing a "best indie game" in my results breakdown. So if there are indie games you think deserve to be on there please mention, they're probably at least as significant as some of this XBLIG stuff (which I am in fact adding)
BTW as far as Back to the Future goes, what I traditionally do with Telltale Games stuff is wait for all the episodes in a "season" to be released and then count the "season" as one game. So BTTF doesn't go on this year.
I'm not sure if I should do the same thing with Sonic 4 or not ?!
I'm balking at some of these DLC/expansion titles. I'm leaning toward being a little more lenient this year than I would have previously, and letting on say, blazblue and ssf4 and cataclysm. But I think I have to draw the line at stuff like the Dead Rising "Cases". I DIDN'T let on gay tony/lost and damned last year, and while stuff like SSF4 kind of blurs the line on the original "no expansions" rule, the "cases" are dead center on what that rule was intended for. The real problem here is that is your favorite game of the year really was DR Case Zero, you could just vote for DR2, also on the list this year. It's easier to imagine someone having legitimately different feelings on SSF4 vs SF4, and WoW expansions come out like 2-3 years apart. But it seems like that other stuff (even if it is technically purchasable standalone) creates the situation I wanted to avoid, which is that Dead Rising 2 is just plain on the list 3 times and DAO gets on the list every year... Feel free to think of Dead Rising + expansions as one game when voting...
Currently planning:
In: SSF4, BlazBlue, Cataclysm, Warband
Out: Case Zero, Case West, WH Chaos Rising, DAO Awakenening (??), The Writer, that King of the King .. thing
Well, for consoles you can break it down like this: does the game have its own achievements or does it add acheivements to another title? Kind of a silly way to go about it, but its a decent way to break down expansions/DLC vs new installments.
The exception being Dead Rising: Case Zero as I still feel like that was a pay demo/prequel DLC to DR2.
OK, I gotta go out for a new years party, the poll may not go up until late afternoon tomororw. The list in the OP is updated but not sorted and I haven't double checked all the titles. Does the current / unsorted OP miss anything (other than stuff mentioned in the last post)?
Even though it seems like it is already decided I just wanted to throw in my 2c regarding the Cataclysm thing.
I think the problem is, the notion of "no xpacks unless they change the game enough to be considered a new game " is fundamentally flawed in that is a purely subjective basis; as seen by the pac-man debate last page. It's not like one perspective is wrong because fundamentally the new pac-man is just like the old pac-man but it certainly has enough content to be considered a "full" game and in the running.
I would say that the basis shouldn't be "did it change enough" but instead should be "does it have enough content to warrant being compared to other full, standalone games?"
For Cataclysm, even if you wanted to be super strict and say that the entire revamping of the old world was "free" and doesn't count for it; the amount of content that is purely 80-85 is, even at bare minimum (one character, one time through any quest/instance), considerably more play time worth of content than most full, stand alone titles on the market.
However, having said that; I think the simplest solution is categories. I personally think the notion of a single GOTY is just silly. No single game stands above every other game. I mean, is Halo: Reach a better game than Starcraft II? The problem is, they're not even comparable games. You're better off having a GOTY FPS, RTS, Xpack, individual system games etc. I never like it when websites and magazines do a "of the year" for anything because then it's like "well, wait, how can you call this Mustang better than a Silverado when they aren't intended to serve the same function?"
But that's a tangent.
I just think that someone arguing against Cataclysm would be on pretty shaky ground from pretty much any basis. More, new, content, better reviewed than many games, exponentially more sales than most other games released this year, etc.
Monday Night Combat is being released for PC next year, but already has a PC beta available. I think you could list that as PC too.
An interesting case, I was thinking about this the other day - since you have to pay for the beta, but the 'beta' being sold is essentially a port of the complete and DLC-enhanced game which has been out on the 360 for months now (also totally in my top 10, probably top 3 for this year).
So although it is being called a 'beta' it is certainly not a game in it's 'beta' stage. It's done, they just want a huge PC Steam community to help highlight bugs / balance and tweak classes / locate 'sploits etc. just like they did with the 360 XBLA version prior to the unusual 'tweak-file' being altered and the patch / free DLC combo making larger changes to the game.
Even a few years back, this game would be sold like this at retail / downloadable as the finished article.
Beta is the new Gold, LOL.
They should probably start classing this development stage as 'gamma' instead of 'beta' or something... :P
With the state it was released in, it totally makes sense to call it beta. There have been updates that have improved things and I'm not entirely sure how it is currently, but it makes perfect sense for Uber to call it beta and not having it listed as released on Steam.
Aliens vs Predator (PS3, 360, PC) came out this year and isn't on the list.
That's because it was horrible
Regardless of quality, it should be there in case someone does want to vote for it. I actually thought it was decent and I had some fun with the multiplayer, but I probably won't vote for it because of there being tons of other games.
Forgot to say - thanks for running this again mcc. :^:
Also, cheers for putting SSFIV on the list. I've not mentioned that game yet, but in my case I never bought SFIV, and while I totally suck at it, and have put nothing like the time into it that I'd like to, SSFIV is still one of my favourite games of the year.
Also in the case of Dead Rising 2 / Case Zero - I have not bought DR2, but have bought Case Zero. So voting for DR2 in this case would be a bit weird; the XBLA game is a stand-alone title, a multiple-hour single player ramble with Achievements etc, and is arguably a more significant XBLA release than many other games for various reasons.
I don't care too much though, since CZ is certainly not in my top 10 (or even 20) for GOTY 2010. :P
mcc, I rechecked the list after you updated it and saw, "White Knight Chronicles: International Edition (PS3) WAIT WHAT", and since that was my suggestion and I realized I completely misrepresented it in my post (that I edited, because it said "ported and released" rather than "localized"), that it might've caused some confusion. So in an effort to hopefully spare you some looking, the "International Version" part is just there because it's the first release of the game outside of Japan and includes all the extra content that was added into the game in Japan.
Of course, if that's not what the wait what, was about then, disregard this. >.>;
OK, I gotta go out for a new years party, the poll may not go up until late afternoon tomororw. The list in the OP is updated but not sorted and I haven't double checked all the titles. Does the current / unsorted OP miss anything (other than stuff mentioned in the last post)?
Thanks again all
You forgot Jumpman. It got officially released this year, right?
Yeah case west and zero could absolutely both be included, and I don't even get the discussion why they wouldn't be. Theyre both totally stand alone games, released on xbla.
I also think that undead nightmare should be in, because episodes from liberty city was last year and its the same thing.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
Yeah, Dead Rising 2: Case Zero and Case: West really are XBLA titles rather than DLC. The line is really getting blurred.
Here's my take on it for DLC, Expansions and Semi-Sequels.
If it requires the base game to play, and if the base game came out that year, then it gets rolled in with the base game.
If it requires the base game to play, but the base game came out in a previous year, then it can be considered for nomination on a per case basis.
If it's standalone, then it can be considered in the same category as other standalone titles in the same price range. So if, say, Shadow Complex is a valid choice for the 2009 GotY, then Case West should be a valid choice for 2010.
If it's is an older game, with a bunch of new features, then again, it should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Adding in an extra bonus level shouldn't count, but increasing a fighting game roster by 33% is probably enough.
If the game itself is mostly the same, and the only big change is that it features enhanced or revamped graphics, then it should not be included (So all those PS3 up-ports, or Monkey Island 2: Special Edition, or the Serious Sam HD games wouldn't count.)
Sweet. I've been checking back every day this week for this thread. Thanks mcc.
The challenge for me taking part is again finding 20 games released this year that I played. I played catch up on a lot of '09 titles. Did someone post the list of past winners of this poll? I remember Batman last year, fallout 3 the year before, and RE4 awhile back, but that's it. Maybe Super Mario Galaxy?
In: SSF4, BlazBlue, Cataclysm, Warband
Out: Case Zero, Case West, WH Chaos Rising, DAO Awakenening (??), The Writer, that King of the King .. thing
Fuck this is hard
First, thanks again for running this.
Second, and sorry for re-opening this debate, but Dawn Of War II: Chaos Rising is a stand-alone game that doesn't require the original Dawn Of War II to play. It has a completely new single player campaign and adds a bit to DOW2 multiplayer - in essence, it's the reverse of Mount & Blade: Warband.
So, if you ask me, if Warband should be considered a separate game, so should Chaos Rising.
In: SSF4, BlazBlue, Cataclysm, Warband
Out: Case Zero, Case West, WH Chaos Rising, DAO Awakenening (??), The Writer, that King of the King .. thing
Fuck this is hard
First, thanks again for running this.
Second, and sorry for re-opening this debate, but Dawn Of War II: Chaos Rising is a stand-alone game that doesn't require the original Dawn Of War II to play. It has a completely new single player campaign and adds a bit to DOW2 multiplayer - in essence, it's the reverse of Mount & Blade: Warband.
So, if you ask me, if Warband should be considered a separate game, so should Chaos Rising.
I was debating this myself, but I can't shake that if you buy only Chaos Rising you don't get the full DoWII multiplayer options.
Also, I wasn't aware that Case West was standalone, I thought t was strait DLC for DR2. I have no idea how I would classify them. They remind me of good ol' shareware episodes that were passed around at conventions and stacked in floppies or CDs up at the register of PC stores, except you have to pay for them :? .
Posts
Major League Baseball 2K10
I concur with those arguing that SSFIV should be included. Not only is it a standalone game but I know people who have played it and not played SFIV, so it would be unfair to consider it an expansion when it is not only possible, but probable to some degree, that many people had their first SFIV exposure by playing this game. In contrast you could not have played an RDR or Borderlands expansion without necessarily playing the original game.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Whoever it was that was talking about indie games: There are quite a few indie games on here, I'm soliciting nominations over at TIG and I'm actually planning (like I did last year) on recognizing a "best indie game" in my results breakdown. So if there are indie games you think deserve to be on there please mention, they're probably at least as significant as some of this XBLIG stuff (which I am in fact adding)
BTW as far as Back to the Future goes, what I traditionally do with Telltale Games stuff is wait for all the episodes in a "season" to be released and then count the "season" as one game. So BTTF doesn't go on this year.
I'm not sure if I should do the same thing with Sonic 4 or not ?!
I'm balking at some of these DLC/expansion titles. I'm leaning toward being a little more lenient this year than I would have previously, and letting on say, blazblue and ssf4 and cataclysm. But I think I have to draw the line at stuff like the Dead Rising "Cases". I DIDN'T let on gay tony/lost and damned last year, and while stuff like SSF4 kind of blurs the line on the original "no expansions" rule, the "cases" are dead center on what that rule was intended for. The real problem here is that is your favorite game of the year really was DR Case Zero, you could just vote for DR2, also on the list this year. It's easier to imagine someone having legitimately different feelings on SSF4 vs SF4, and WoW expansions come out like 2-3 years apart. But it seems like that other stuff (even if it is technically purchasable standalone) creates the situation I wanted to avoid, which is that Dead Rising 2 is just plain on the list 3 times and DAO gets on the list every year... Feel free to think of Dead Rising + expansions as one game when voting...
Currently planning:
In: SSF4, BlazBlue, Cataclysm, Warband
Out: Case Zero, Case West, WH Chaos Rising, DAO Awakenening (??), The Writer, that King of the King .. thing
Fuck this is hard
The exception being Dead Rising: Case Zero as I still feel like that was a pay demo/prequel DLC to DR2.
Thanks again all
I think the problem is, the notion of "no xpacks unless they change the game enough to be considered a new game " is fundamentally flawed in that is a purely subjective basis; as seen by the pac-man debate last page. It's not like one perspective is wrong because fundamentally the new pac-man is just like the old pac-man but it certainly has enough content to be considered a "full" game and in the running.
I would say that the basis shouldn't be "did it change enough" but instead should be "does it have enough content to warrant being compared to other full, standalone games?"
For Cataclysm, even if you wanted to be super strict and say that the entire revamping of the old world was "free" and doesn't count for it; the amount of content that is purely 80-85 is, even at bare minimum (one character, one time through any quest/instance), considerably more play time worth of content than most full, stand alone titles on the market.
However, having said that; I think the simplest solution is categories. I personally think the notion of a single GOTY is just silly. No single game stands above every other game. I mean, is Halo: Reach a better game than Starcraft II? The problem is, they're not even comparable games. You're better off having a GOTY FPS, RTS, Xpack, individual system games etc. I never like it when websites and magazines do a "of the year" for anything because then it's like "well, wait, how can you call this Mustang better than a Silverado when they aren't intended to serve the same function?"
But that's a tangent.
I just think that someone arguing against Cataclysm would be on pretty shaky ground from pretty much any basis. More, new, content, better reviewed than many games, exponentially more sales than most other games released this year, etc.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
With the state it was released in, it totally makes sense to call it beta. There have been updates that have improved things and I'm not entirely sure how it is currently, but it makes perfect sense for Uber to call it beta and not having it listed as released on Steam.
Regardless of quality, it should be there in case someone does want to vote for it. I actually thought it was decent and I had some fun with the multiplayer, but I probably won't vote for it because of there being tons of other games.
Also, cheers for putting SSFIV on the list. I've not mentioned that game yet, but in my case I never bought SFIV, and while I totally suck at it, and have put nothing like the time into it that I'd like to, SSFIV is still one of my favourite games of the year.
Also in the case of Dead Rising 2 / Case Zero - I have not bought DR2, but have bought Case Zero. So voting for DR2 in this case would be a bit weird; the XBLA game is a stand-alone title, a multiple-hour single player ramble with Achievements etc, and is arguably a more significant XBLA release than many other games for various reasons.
I don't care too much though, since CZ is certainly not in my top 10 (or even 20) for GOTY 2010. :P
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Of course, if that's not what the wait what, was about then, disregard this. >.>;
I haven't played Case West, but I would vote for Case Zero long before I vote for Dead Rising 2
Agreed.
You forgot Jumpman. It got officially released this year, right?
I also think that undead nightmare should be in, because episodes from liberty city was last year and its the same thing.
Here's my take on it for DLC, Expansions and Semi-Sequels.
If it requires the base game to play, and if the base game came out that year, then it gets rolled in with the base game.
If it requires the base game to play, but the base game came out in a previous year, then it can be considered for nomination on a per case basis.
If it's standalone, then it can be considered in the same category as other standalone titles in the same price range. So if, say, Shadow Complex is a valid choice for the 2009 GotY, then Case West should be a valid choice for 2010.
If it's is an older game, with a bunch of new features, then again, it should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Adding in an extra bonus level shouldn't count, but increasing a fighting game roster by 33% is probably enough.
If the game itself is mostly the same, and the only big change is that it features enhanced or revamped graphics, then it should not be included (So all those PS3 up-ports, or Monkey Island 2: Special Edition, or the Serious Sam HD games wouldn't count.)
And of course, straight ports do not count.
There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
Every year you pop in here and get this going and its always something that provides a lot of good talk amongst us. Thanks again =D
The challenge for me taking part is again finding 20 games released this year that I played. I played catch up on a lot of '09 titles. Did someone post the list of past winners of this poll? I remember Batman last year, fallout 3 the year before, and RE4 awhile back, but that's it. Maybe Super Mario Galaxy?
Switch - SW-3699-5063-5018
First, thanks again for running this.
Second, and sorry for re-opening this debate, but Dawn Of War II: Chaos Rising is a stand-alone game that doesn't require the original Dawn Of War II to play. It has a completely new single player campaign and adds a bit to DOW2 multiplayer - in essence, it's the reverse of Mount & Blade: Warband.
So, if you ask me, if Warband should be considered a separate game, so should Chaos Rising.
I was debating this myself, but I can't shake that if you buy only Chaos Rising you don't get the full DoWII multiplayer options.
Also, I wasn't aware that Case West was standalone, I thought t was strait DLC for DR2. I have no idea how I would classify them. They remind me of good ol' shareware episodes that were passed around at conventions and stacked in floppies or CDs up at the register of PC stores, except you have to pay for them :? .
I always liked the way GOTY polls are done here, and enjoy the discussion afterward. So thanks again for doing this mcc.
Gamer Tag: LeeWay0
PSN: Leeway0
3DS: 1521-4165-5907
PS3: KayleSolo
Live: Kayle Solo
WiiU: KayleSolo