Hi, this is a thread to discuss the attempted assassination of Representative Giffords and the murder of six people yesterday.
I had to lock the other thread because it seemed to be devolving into pettiness and going off the rails and i just didn't have it in me to wade through and look for infractions.
It is a tragedy and an emotional topic, so please post with consideration and a little gentleness where possible.
My wife worked for a Congressman up until June of this year. The person who had her job in Rep. Giffords's office was shot and killed. Needless to say, my wife is glad she is not in politics any more. It's really sad that American politics has come to this.
Do we have a definite, final number on the other people injured and killed in this? The number kept bobbing all over the place yesterday. I kept hearing anything from 6, up to 18.
1) She responded to commands which is a good sign. Not out of the woods yet and probably has a long recovery in front of her.
2) The Feds are going to charge Loughner sometime today.
3) Local authorities are backing off the accomplice theory from yesterday but he remains a person of interest.
4) This kid is a hero.
Also, should we have a separate eliminationist rhetoric thread (again) so as to help keep this more focused?
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Fox got hold of a Homeland Security memo that suspects a white supremicist group may have been behind this:
trong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.
It's like West Wing season 1 all over again...
Edit: I'm not sure whether this memo is from before or after the feds said the guy from the photograph probably wasn't Loughner's accomplice.
One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?
Ugh.
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
Professor Phobos on
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Thank you for that link in #4, Bum. That was what I needed to see this morning. Full sincerity.
I had a great post typed up last night about how and why people reacted like they did, both here and elsewhere, but Will locked the thread just as I was trying to post it. Seems kind of irrelevant now.
according to the headlines that I saw, the Congresswoman was in critical condition in a medically induced coma. Doctors say they are cautiously optimistic.
So have they released any information as to where this guy was living or working?
It really does seem like he has some severe mental issues and I'm just curious how no one seemed to notice. Schizophrenia and the like can suddenly appear at his age, but did no one is family notice? Coworkers? His classmates apparently hadn't seen him for a while. I don't know, just seems odd that no one noticed over the holidays and he was apparently able to purchase a weapon and ammunition, implying a job or some source of money.
I'd be surprised if he actually has a real link to an actual group. He might have felt like he belonged with their ideology, but I'm betting on a psychotic break with his target chosen based on political rhetoric.
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.
Fox got hold of a Homeland Security memo that suspects a white supremicist group may have been behind this:
trong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.
Abwuuh? She was just elected to her third term in the House. There are more senior Jewish women in both houses of Congress.
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.
Yes. It's the same reason reporters will list the address as well.
Let's say Professor Lee Phobos of 123 Evergreen Terrace molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children; I think you'd agree it's better for the reporters to list all that information than Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.
Yes. It's the same reason reporters will list the address as well.
Let's say Professor Lee Phobos of 123 Evergreen Terrace molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children; I think you'd agree it's better for the reporters to list all that information than Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.
Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.
Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.
So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
I don't want to derail into leftist/right politics on this, at least this early, but I saw a blog post by someone I respect (Second City Cop) that basically paints this guy as a far-leftist, Communist kind of guy.
I've always viewed the political spectrum as a circle(*) -- eventually, the far left and the far right eventually meet on the far side of crazy, diametrically opposite of moderate, and it is these people you have to be careful of. I really, really hope people focus more on the wellbeing of those injured and the families of those killed than anything political behind this. Don't turn this into ammo(**).
*= Actually, I see it as a 2D grid. Can't wrap my head around 3-dimensional politics just yet.
**= Yes, I know, people are already doing this, but I want to remain hopeful, okay?
Well, his favorite books listed a lot of extremist shit from across the spectrum (Objectivism, fascism, communism, etc) so there's something for everyone.
Judging from the youtube videos, the guy was probably a paranoid schizophrenic with a deep distrust of the government and other people in general, while holding himself up to aggrandized delusions.
He might have been spurred on by the acrid political climate, he might have just coincidentally fired into a political crowd. But I do know that he ended six lives yesterday and would have killed more if given the chance to reload.
No matter what his beliefs, he is a shame upon America and all that we stand for.
Eddy on
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
His ideology is incoherent, if what is supposedly his stuff is actually his stuff. There's a larger point, but I think if we want to talk about the general culture of political and eliminationist rhetoric we should make a new thread and keep this as basically a news thread.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
So have they released any information as to where this guy was living or working?
It really does seem like he has some severe mental issues and I'm just curious how no one seemed to notice. Schizophrenia and the like can suddenly appear at his age, but did no one is family notice? Coworkers? His classmates apparently hadn't seen him for a while. I don't know, just seems odd that no one noticed over the holidays and he was apparently able to purchase a weapon and ammunition, implying a job or some source of money.
I'd be surprised if he actually has a real link to an actual group. He might have felt like he belonged with their ideology, but I'm betting on a psychotic break with his target chosen based on political rhetoric.
I did a little bit of digging last night and it appears that he was suspended from the college he attended several months ago for multiple counts of behavioral disruptions. I think I remember reading he lived with his parents and they were there for the suspension hearing. There was a blurb about this posted on his college's web site, but I can't find it right now.
Marty81 on
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.
Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.
Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.
So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.
The troubling thing is that when you start looking at the hate speech in politics, it really is one-sided. I have been trying to find examples of democratic candidates saying things like "I have the opponent in my sights" or "second amendment remedies" if their voices aren't heard, and I don't see it outside of small, non-influential groups on the fringe (like PETA).
To decry the hate speech demands examples of it, and right now all of the examples are from one party.
Also, let's say this guy is not a tea party guy, or a birther, or even a registered republican. He is clearly someone easily influenced by bullshit (his belief in text pattern mind-control is proof of that), and people like this are easily swayed by statements like the kind that have been flying out of the right recently to do horrible things.
The bible doesn't make people killers. The bible gives justification to unstable people to kill.
Same story.
Edit: I don't want to see this become political ammunition. I really don't. But what I do want to see is someone on the right who is big in the party (like Boehner) step forward and admit that his own party needs to turn the dial down a bit when it comes to their current language posturing. "Job Killing" is a really unfair way to posture something, and moreso, language like that can lead desperate people to do desperate things. Just stop it.
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
The alleged shooter in Arizona was attempting to reload his weapon when a woman grabbed the gun's magazine and ripped it away from him, Sheriff Clarence Dupnik told reporters Sunday.
Mr. Dupnik said the woman was injured as she attempted to stop the suspect, who then tried to put another magazine in the gun, but the spring in the magazine failed.
The sheriff said that allowed two men to subdue the suspect until authorities arrived.
This could have been worse.
Also, the little girl that was murdered was born on September 11th, 2001. That's just eerie.
Hoz on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?
Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.
One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?
Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.
Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.
One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?
Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.
Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.
Well, Kennedy's death was just some nutter as well, wasn't he?
Arguably Lincoln was the only political assassination, considering what a Confederate sympathizer Booth was, and he wasn't really that crazy in the head (just really pissed).
One of the things that struck me about this is that, as a fairly young guy, I had kind of emotionally classified "political assassination in the United States" as something that "happened in the 60s." As in, it was "history." Something that happened but didn't happen, you know? There were plenty of attempts in my lifetime, of course, but there was always this kind of abstraction to the idea. It's kind of like waking up to find out the Japanese bombed a naval base in the pacific- a kind of, what the hell, I thought we'd gotten this kind of bullshit over and done with already. What, Mad Men got everyone in a 1960s mood all of a sudden?
Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.
Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.
Well, Kennedy's death was just some nutter as well, wasn't he?
Man if you know for sure write a book and enjoy being rich.
I don't want to derail into leftist/right politics on this, at least this early, but I saw a blog post by someone I respect (Second City Cop) that basically paints this guy as a far-leftist, Communist kind of guy.
I've always viewed the political spectrum as a circle(*) -- eventually, the far left and the far right eventually meet on the far side of crazy, diametrically opposite of moderate, and it is these people you have to be careful of. I really, really hope people focus more on the wellbeing of those injured and the families of those killed than anything political behind this. Don't turn this into ammo(**).
*= Actually, I see it as a 2D grid. Can't wrap my head around 3-dimensional politics just yet.
**= Yes, I know, people are already doing this, but I want to remain hopeful, okay?
See, I can't stand the kind of hang-wringing certain tragedies always seem to bring out.
We damn well SHOULD be discussing the political background and implications of this tragedy.
I just read that the poor 9 year old is the daughter of a Major League Baseball player. Wow.
Its going to be a very interestiing week. When things of this magnitutde happen on weekends it gives everyone the chance to sit and really plan out what they want to say about it, as the media doesn't give two shits really until Monday morning.
It's one of those things where, even if Palin/Beck/ect didn't have a thing to do with this guys motivations, people will still be ASKING them about it. And whatever the response they have is - that's whats going to end up being the big focus.
I mean, the potential to give a response that totally screws you is enormous here. They will need to pick their responses VERY carefully.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
Thing about these stories is that no matter how horrific they are they almost always involve more heroes than villans.
That woman saved countless lives with one act of bravery. Grievous as the loss of (at least) 6 people is, that woman (and the men who followed up with tackling him, and the staff who began immediate first aid to the injured, etc) are all heroes, and deserve to be recognized as such.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
marks: Nah, they'll say "horrible tragedy how dare you try to exploit this for political gain", and nobody will have the guts to press them, as always.
There are "moderate" extremists. The notion that only the far left and far right have crazy doesn't really hold up in practice.
Any political idea or system can be taken too far by using it to justify abhorrent behavior without the idea itself coming from wacky land. The issue here is that people are getting caught up in primitive warrior bullshit instead of open and honest discussion and rational voting practices, spurred on by people who incite blind passion rather than well-considered reason to get and maintain power for themselves.
I misspoke - it was the granddaughter of Dallas Green, former manager of the Phillies.
And I'm hoping SOMEONE has the guts to press them. I mean, the rhetoric has gotten so bizarrely blatant and specific that it isn't even really a press anymore to ask about it. It's not like any reporter even has to say "So when you were saying that, you really were beating around the bush but we all know you meant this" and then they can say "heavens no! You misunderstood!"
This is literally "So when you put crosshairs over her and said 'reload', and said she needed to be 'taken out', do you regret that?"
I mean the thing that bothers me more than anything in the world about all this - is if you or I had made that crosshairs graphic, we'd be under arrest right now.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
I wonder if Congress will end up approving a Security stipend for it's members to hiring personal security people.
Even if they don't, I know my Rep. will be well protected after this, given that he was the Sheriff in the county North of me before being given nomination by the previous sitting Rep.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.
So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.
The troubling thing is that when you start looking at the hate speech in politics, it really is one-sided. I have been trying to find examples of democratic candidates saying things like "I have the opponent in my sights" or "second amendment remedies" if their voices aren't heard, and I don't see it outside of small, non-influential groups on the fringe (like PETA).
To decry the hate speech demands examples of it, and right now all of the examples are from one party.
Also, let's say this guy is not a tea party guy, or a birther, or even a registered republican. He is clearly someone easily influenced by bullshit (his belief in text pattern mind-control is proof of that), and people like this are easily swayed by statements like the kind that have been flying out of the right recently to do horrible things.
The bible doesn't make people killers. The bible gives justification to unstable people to kill.
Same story.
Edit: I don't want to see this become political ammunition. I really don't. But what I do want to see is someone on the right who is big in the party (like Boehner) step forward and admit that his own party needs to turn the dial down a bit when it comes to their current language posturing. "Job Killing" is a really unfair way to posture something, and moreso, language like that can lead desperate people to do desperate things. Just stop it.[/QUOTE]
DLC and DCCC maps using "palin-style" bullseye targets on targeted officials (Daily KOS also had a map almost identical to Palin's placing a "bullseye" on Gabby Giffords, and other, mostly moderate, congressmen, for "targeting" http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
The fact is, "reload," target," "bullseye," "eliminate," etc, are all commonly used terms across our society in sports, daily conversation, and yes, politics. You can make the argument that this is unhealthy, or contributes to things like what happened yesterday, but to intimate the right has anything close to a Monopoly on it is simply not intellectually honest or accurate.
Senor Mushroom on
"Video Games hurt children? Thats what they said about rock and roll."
I misspoke - it was the granddaughter of Dallas Green, former manager of the Phillies.
And I'm hoping SOMEONE has the guts to press them. I mean, the rhetoric has gotten so bizarrely blatant and specific that it isn't even really a press anymore to ask about it. It's not like any reporter even has to say "So when you were saying that, you really were beating around the bush but we all know you meant this" and then they can say "heavens no! You misunderstood!"
This is literally "So when you put crosshairs over her and said 'reload', and said she needed to be 'taken out', do you regret that?"
I mean the thing that bothers me more than anything in the world about all this - is if you or I had made that crosshairs graphic, we'd be under arrest right now.
Under arrest now?
Try under arrest within 24hours of putting that out on the Internet.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
The fact is, "reload," target," "bullseye," "eliminate," etc, are all commonly used terms across our society in sports, daily conversation, and yes, politics. You can make the argument that this is unhealthy, or contributes to things like what happened yesterday, but to intimate the right has anything close to a Monopoly on it is simply not intellectually honest or accurate.
How is this for intellectually honest and accurate then- The right owns the lion's share of divisive and exterminationist rhetoric in this country. To the point that it was commonly found as part of their campaign platforms and slogans.
Posts
1) She responded to commands which is a good sign. Not out of the woods yet and probably has a long recovery in front of her.
2) The Feds are going to charge Loughner sometime today.
3) Local authorities are backing off the accomplice theory from yesterday but he remains a person of interest.
4) This kid is a hero.
Also, should we have a separate eliminationist rhetoric thread (again) so as to help keep this more focused?
It's like West Wing season 1 all over again...
Edit: I'm not sure whether this memo is from before or after the feds said the guy from the photograph probably wasn't Loughner's accomplice.
Ugh.
EDIT: Also, did anyone else notice- in early news reports, it was just Jared Loughner...and then like, all of a sudden, it was Jared Lee Loughner. It's like we subconsciously add middle names to our assassins, when we'd normally just use first and last.
I had a great post typed up last night about how and why people reacted like they did, both here and elsewhere, but Will locked the thread just as I was trying to post it. Seems kind of irrelevant now.
according to the headlines that I saw, the Congresswoman was in critical condition in a medically induced coma. Doctors say they are cautiously optimistic.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
It really does seem like he has some severe mental issues and I'm just curious how no one seemed to notice. Schizophrenia and the like can suddenly appear at his age, but did no one is family notice? Coworkers? His classmates apparently hadn't seen him for a while. I don't know, just seems odd that no one noticed over the holidays and he was apparently able to purchase a weapon and ammunition, implying a job or some source of money.
I'd be surprised if he actually has a real link to an actual group. He might have felt like he belonged with their ideology, but I'm betting on a psychotic break with his target chosen based on political rhetoric.
I'm pretty sure that's done to be as specific as possible in identifying who it was so no mistake is made. I don't think it's a written rule, though, just common practice.
Yes. It's the same reason reporters will list the address as well.
Let's say Professor Lee Phobos of 123 Evergreen Terrace molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children; I think you'd agree it's better for the reporters to list all that information than Professor Phobos molested 50 mentally handicapped, blind children.
You know, that makes perfect sense.
Holy crap. I had Professor Phobos for Business Calculus. I had no idea. I guess it explains the looks he kept giving Frank, the class blindy.
So anyway, I tire of the political connections to this at this point, that is, specifically whether he was influenced by Palin or any other big political figure -- I am glad, however, that it is making people realize the ridiculous hate speech that has been going on over the past few elections, especially here. Tucson is actually a lovely place to live. If you could take away the people.
I've always viewed the political spectrum as a circle(*) -- eventually, the far left and the far right eventually meet on the far side of crazy, diametrically opposite of moderate, and it is these people you have to be careful of. I really, really hope people focus more on the wellbeing of those injured and the families of those killed than anything political behind this. Don't turn this into ammo(**).
*= Actually, I see it as a 2D grid. Can't wrap my head around 3-dimensional politics just yet.
**= Yes, I know, people are already doing this, but I want to remain hopeful, okay?
Judging from the youtube videos, the guy was probably a paranoid schizophrenic with a deep distrust of the government and other people in general, while holding himself up to aggrandized delusions.
He might have been spurred on by the acrid political climate, he might have just coincidentally fired into a political crowd. But I do know that he ended six lives yesterday and would have killed more if given the chance to reload.
No matter what his beliefs, he is a shame upon America and all that we stand for.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
I did a little bit of digging last night and it appears that he was suspended from the college he attended several months ago for multiple counts of behavioral disruptions. I think I remember reading he lived with his parents and they were there for the suspension hearing. There was a blurb about this posted on his college's web site, but I can't find it right now.
To decry the hate speech demands examples of it, and right now all of the examples are from one party.
Also, let's say this guy is not a tea party guy, or a birther, or even a registered republican. He is clearly someone easily influenced by bullshit (his belief in text pattern mind-control is proof of that), and people like this are easily swayed by statements like the kind that have been flying out of the right recently to do horrible things.
The bible doesn't make people killers. The bible gives justification to unstable people to kill.
Same story.
Edit: I don't want to see this become political ammunition. I really don't. But what I do want to see is someone on the right who is big in the party (like Boehner) step forward and admit that his own party needs to turn the dial down a bit when it comes to their current language posturing. "Job Killing" is a really unfair way to posture something, and moreso, language like that can lead desperate people to do desperate things. Just stop it.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
This could have been worse.
Also, the little girl that was murdered was born on September 11th, 2001. That's just eerie.
Thing about these stories is that no matter how horrific they are they almost always involve more heroes than villans.
Well, I'm not an American but...someone did shoot Ronald Reagan in 1981.
Yeah but that was just a nutter trying to impress Jodie Foster.
Well, Kennedy's death was just some nutter as well, wasn't he?
Arguably Lincoln was the only political assassination, considering what a Confederate sympathizer Booth was, and he wasn't really that crazy in the head (just really pissed).
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/01/the-cloudy-logic-of-political-shootings/69147/
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
See, I can't stand the kind of hang-wringing certain tragedies always seem to bring out.
We damn well SHOULD be discussing the political background and implications of this tragedy.
Its going to be a very interestiing week. When things of this magnitutde happen on weekends it gives everyone the chance to sit and really plan out what they want to say about it, as the media doesn't give two shits really until Monday morning.
It's one of those things where, even if Palin/Beck/ect didn't have a thing to do with this guys motivations, people will still be ASKING them about it. And whatever the response they have is - that's whats going to end up being the big focus.
I mean, the potential to give a response that totally screws you is enormous here. They will need to pick their responses VERY carefully.
That woman saved countless lives with one act of bravery. Grievous as the loss of (at least) 6 people is, that woman (and the men who followed up with tackling him, and the staff who began immediate first aid to the injured, etc) are all heroes, and deserve to be recognized as such.
Any political idea or system can be taken too far by using it to justify abhorrent behavior without the idea itself coming from wacky land. The issue here is that people are getting caught up in primitive warrior bullshit instead of open and honest discussion and rational voting practices, spurred on by people who incite blind passion rather than well-considered reason to get and maintain power for themselves.
And I'm hoping SOMEONE has the guts to press them. I mean, the rhetoric has gotten so bizarrely blatant and specific that it isn't even really a press anymore to ask about it. It's not like any reporter even has to say "So when you were saying that, you really were beating around the bush but we all know you meant this" and then they can say "heavens no! You misunderstood!"
This is literally "So when you put crosshairs over her and said 'reload', and said she needed to be 'taken out', do you regret that?"
I mean the thing that bothers me more than anything in the world about all this - is if you or I had made that crosshairs graphic, we'd be under arrest right now.
Even if they don't, I know my Rep. will be well protected after this, given that he was the Sheriff in the county North of me before being given nomination by the previous sitting Rep.
To decry the hate speech demands examples of it, and right now all of the examples are from one party.
Also, let's say this guy is not a tea party guy, or a birther, or even a registered republican. He is clearly someone easily influenced by bullshit (his belief in text pattern mind-control is proof of that), and people like this are easily swayed by statements like the kind that have been flying out of the right recently to do horrible things.
The bible doesn't make people killers. The bible gives justification to unstable people to kill.
Same story.
Edit: I don't want to see this become political ammunition. I really don't. But what I do want to see is someone on the right who is big in the party (like Boehner) step forward and admit that his own party needs to turn the dial down a bit when it comes to their current language posturing. "Job Killing" is a really unfair way to posture something, and moreso, language like that can lead desperate people to do desperate things. Just stop it.[/QUOTE]
Examples you requested:
Barack Obama's 'THey bring a knife, we bring a gun" http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
DLC and DCCC maps using "palin-style" bullseye targets on targeted officials (Daily KOS also had a map almost identical to Palin's placing a "bullseye" on Gabby Giffords, and other, mostly moderate, congressmen, for "targeting"
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=13647
Keith Oblmermann implies violence against Hillary Clinton
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/25/keith-olbermanns-idea-for_n_98557.html
I could go on...
The fact is, "reload," target," "bullseye," "eliminate," etc, are all commonly used terms across our society in sports, daily conversation, and yes, politics. You can make the argument that this is unhealthy, or contributes to things like what happened yesterday, but to intimate the right has anything close to a Monopoly on it is simply not intellectually honest or accurate.
Under arrest now?
Try under arrest within 24hours of putting that out on the Internet.
He's the only one who knows why he did this.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
How is this for intellectually honest and accurate then- The right owns the lion's share of divisive and exterminationist rhetoric in this country. To the point that it was commonly found as part of their campaign platforms and slogans.