BloodshedI smoke my friendsDown to the FilterRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
Honestly, I think the biggest draw to any new MMO these days is just that, it's NOT the MMO you're coming from. A game can still be entertaining and well-made and eventually grow boring.
That's how I feel about WoW, these days. There's nothing wrong with it, it's still the best MMO on the market. But I've been doing it for 6 years. It's time for a change. People crave change for all manner of reasons. New challenges, etc. Over six years I've built a niche for myself on a server playing WoW, and I never really venture off to a new server, because I've done all the work.
Sometimes a new MMO is a great opportunity to re-build yourself a niche, maybe it won't be terribly original, maybe everything won't be brand new and unique, but you'll have to start over from scratch, and there is an appeal to that.
As long as Rift can offer me entertainment, even if I am constantly finding similarities in it from the games I've played previously, it will give me a new place to start over. To re-build myself another virtual "home".
For all that WoW has offered me in the past 6 years, there are a number of things that I love in MMO's that WoW has ever failed to capture me with. Like the completely lack-luster crafting, most of which is completely useless to me at high level, and not worth the effort at low level.
There's also the opportunity to make new gamer friends, and a brand new MMO is a great way to find people who aren't already deeply established somewhere already. (Like a guild or steady group of gamer-friends)
So really, the draw to any new MMO depends very heavily on what's making you look at new MMO's in the first place, and it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the MMO you're coming from.
FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
The issue with crafting won't be solved in Rift, and I really doubt it will be solved any time soon in any MMO. The problem is that people play MMOs for different reasons, but for the most part they want to be rewarded for their efforts and time (however its spent) without feeling like they've wasted it because they could have done something else that is easier or more enjoyable to get similar results.
For instance, why would I spent countless hours in end-game instances trying to get a specific set of gear when I could just get something similar crafted? Why claw my way up the PvP ranks to achieve the high-end reward gear when there is something similar that is crafted?
You could, of course, make said gear so especially difficult and time consuming to craft that the amount of effort is equivalent, but how would that be anywhere near as enjoyable as actually playing the game to get the gear (PVP, instances, etc.). Making crafted gear too powerful undermines the efforts of the standard ways to gather gear. Add in an auction house and you've got everyone running around in the exact same armour, because it's way easier to save up some cash and buy it all at once.
I don't think crafting is something that we're going to see revolutionized any time soon in an MMO. So many games say they're going to, but the end result is the same shallow experience. You gather, you refine, and you assemble. I think we're going to see that same formula (with minor arbitrary variations) for years to come.
I found that Star Wars Galaxies had an amazing system for their crafting, what with the actual crafting class and then the sub-classes within that. On my home on Tattooine I had some simple harvesters set up just so I could do a bit of minor crafting.
I hope they have PvP like WAR, only with devs that aren't incompetent, or failing that, devs that give a damn and don't just mail it in.
That's why I'm interested in it.
Too bad they can't re-skin the thing with Orcs and chaos so I can have a proper WAAAGGHHH.
mellestad on
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BloodshedI smoke my friendsDown to the FilterRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
If you never took a look at Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, it has one of the most interesting and in-depth crafting systems I've ever seen. Yes, it's brutally slow and often tedious, but very creative with tons of options. I mean, you can build ships, houses and castles in that game.
Well the PvP is not going to be as in-depth when it comes to the open world. No keeps to siege and such... I THINK, there's going to be a zone opened up in one of the beta events that apparently has some kind of PvP focus?
That and the devs have specifically stated that they aren't going to go balancing stuff around the pvp crowd, especially due to the open nature of the class system.
That and the devs have specifically stated that they aren't going to go balancing stuff around the pvp crowd, especially due to the open nature of the class system.
This is the very best thing
I'm so sick of WoW balance being centered almost solely around facilitating the PvP arena
It's kind of funny that I've seen people screaming about them going and doing the opposite 'already', guess they don't realize it's still in beta?
Not to mention they aren't going to make vast sweeping changes, because there is actually a Soul made specifically to aid in PvP. You got your 'guard' for the warrior one, a detaunt for the mages/clerics, the Rogue soul seems to have poisons built around reducing casting speed and such.
BloodshedI smoke my friendsDown to the FilterRegistered Userregular
edited January 2011
A lot of people feel that the rediculous scrutiny of Arena ruined a lot of the fun for PvE'ers, and while I don't think it outright ruined anything, I do think it made them put every single ability and spell under a microscope for what was essentially a part of the game made for a very specific kind of player.
Meanwhile, arena players constantly lament their abilities being nerfed for PvE purposes. I'm not disagreeing with any of you, but I would really hate to be in charge of pleasing the WoW community. What a nightmare.
Could so easily be fixed by making the abilities do one thing in PvP and another in PvE. Is it work? Yes it's work, but it would relieve a lot of stress from trying to keep things balanced.
And Rift seems to have just said - "Pshaw. . .were going to give them PvP classes and just not worry about it. . ." Which to me is one of the Steve Jobs moments where they realize how awesome PvP can be, but fixed it ahead of time.
I take it the Steve Jobs comparison is a good thing, right?
But yeah with you being able to have 4 set-ups, there's nothing stopping you from keeping one with the PvP Soul for when you feel like bashing some heads.
Apparently as well, you are restricted in the points you can put into the soul depending on your PvP 'rank' which only goes up at level cap. So until you get to 50 you don't even need to worry about it.
I am very curious about Bard for group play. Are the animations decently done?
I know I had a group in last beta that really wanted a bard for the buffs they gave, so they'll hopefully have a place in higher level group play. As for animations, here's a video of a guy playing a bard in Warfronts (Rift's Battlegrounds):
Bard has always been my favorite type of class ever since the incredibly overpowered ones in Everquest (there were good reasons for Thott being one). Or Final Fantasy XI's bard: PURE insanely awesome support, coveted by all groups.
Unfortunately, judging by the clip the sound effects for a Bard in Rift are horrendous...I sincerely hope there's a way to turn those off or, better yet, that enough people complain so that they change it. I will be sure to report exactly that when I start playing. Maybe they are already placeholder sound effects?
That and the devs have specifically stated that they aren't going to go balancing stuff around the pvp crowd, especially due to the open nature of the class system.
Do you have a link for this? This sounds fantastic.
When asked on my profile page about what my biggest concerns for the game were, one of the things I listed was pve getting nerfed for lame pvp reasons.
But yeah with you being able to have 4 set-ups, there's nothing stopping you from keeping one with the PvP Soul for when you feel like bashing some heads.
That's honestly a very good idea.
Apparently as well, you are restricted in the points you can put into the soul depending on your PvP 'rank' which only goes up at level cap. So until you get to 50 you don't even need to worry about it.
That, however, is not. Gating access to necessary shit for PVP makes for bad PVP. see: being a couple seasons behind in WOW gear.
That and the devs have specifically stated that they aren't going to go balancing stuff around the pvp crowd, especially due to the open nature of the class system.
Do you have a link for this? This sounds fantastic.
When asked on my profile page about what my biggest concerns for the game were, one of the things I listed was pve getting nerfed for lame pvp reasons.
Hopefully they'll follow through on this.
While I realize you care bears want to hug it out or whatever (:P I like PVE too), it's pretty important to balance shit around PVP moreso than PVE, as the former is more sensitive to poorly balanced mechanics.
Besides, as Guild Wars has shown, you can have abilities which simply don't work on enemy players, which helps solve the issue. That's more strongly instanced than other MMOs, but the principal works well, and it's even implemented by WOW's terrible PVP system in a half-assed way (crowd control effects, mostly).
Could so easily be fixed by making the abilities do one thing in PvP and another in PvE. Is it work? Yes it's work, but it would relieve a lot of stress from trying to keep things balanced.
That's how Guild Wars does it, and it works fantastically. The WoW development team has said something about that compromising the cohesiveness of their game world or something like that. I don't really know.
Many of you have asked for keys to get your guilds into the RIFT beta, and we hear you! As a special thank-you for subscribing to the newsletter, here is a VIP beta key that can be used 25 times. Now your friends can join the ranks of the Ascended for all remaining beta events. Post it on Facebook or your favorite forum! Tweet it! Shout it from the heavens! It's yours to use as you please.
I guess PM if you need one, as I don't want to post it for crawlers to grab. No zero day joins please
*edit* 22 remaining, and it sounds like others have more so please speak up!
Apparently as well, you are restricted in the points you can put into the soul depending on your PvP 'rank' which only goes up at level cap. So until you get to 50 you don't even need to worry about it.
That, however, is not. Gating access to necessary shit for PVP makes for bad PVP. see: being a couple seasons behind in WOW gear.
It isn't such a problem in this case, because you don't need the PvP soul to have an effective PvP build. Plenty of PvP builds won't even use the thing.
Ellthiteren on
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited January 2011
Haha, I actually got the same email with a 25-use VIP key
Combing through some of my RL friends first, but if you somehow miraculously run out of uses feel free to shoot me a PM about it too.
Apparently as well, you are restricted in the points you can put into the soul depending on your PvP 'rank' which only goes up at level cap. So until you get to 50 you don't even need to worry about it.
That, however, is not. Gating access to necessary shit for PVP makes for bad PVP. see: being a couple seasons behind in WOW gear.
It isn't such a problem in this case, because you don't need the PvP soul to have an effective PvP build. Plenty of PvP builds won't even use the thing.
That, and you can only put something like 21 points into a PvP tree, so even with a full PvP rank you'll still only be a few points up on someone who just got the tree.
As for VIP keys, I also have one! I'll post it up here tomorrow once I can give it to both of my roommates.
Yeah if you guys get these do NOT openly post them, because none of the uses will go towards a PAer more than likely.
Although I imagine a lot of us have snagged VIP keys from Curse/ZAM, but this keeps us ready if others want to join later. Also perhaps get the OP to change the title to reflect this? In fact, I think that should be done ASAP.
I just started downloading. I also have one of those 25-use keys if people are still looking. Maybe make a note in the thread title? Seems like we have a lot of keys between us.
I am thirsty for a fantasy MMO, but I'm not gonna play WoW, so the timing on this is ideal. I'm also kind of hoping we go Defiant. I cannot see myself playing anything but Dwarf on the Guardian sids.
I sent a PM to Zzulu about changing the OP, but I haven't heard back yet. Should I bug a mod about it instead? I'm happy to keep the OP/title updated if there's a way to let me do that.
As far as picking a server/faction for the PA beta guild: There was a bit more interest in Defiant, but I'm going to suggest going Guardian in the beta, for one main reason - Warfront queues have been instant for Guardians and very long for the Defiant (10+ minutes in many cases). I don't really expect to see the population balance shift massively. I'm also way more familiar with the guardian content personally, so organizing that effort will be far easier for me. RP/PvP server was easily the most popular choice, so I think we're good to go on that front.
Since we have 25 x a lot of beta keys, if someone wants to lead a Defiant side PA guild, that is an option as well. Same server would be fine, I think we can make characters on both sides.
I'd love it if someone could send me a key, I've been looking for a new MMO since Dark Ages of Camelot, but everything I like always turns out to be an unfinished buggy mess.
I sent a PM to Zzulu about changing the OP, but I haven't heard back yet. Should I bug a mod about it instead? I'm happy to keep the OP/title updated if there's a way to let me do that.
As far as picking a server/faction for the PA beta guild: There was a bit more interest in Defiant, but I'm going to suggest going Guardian in the beta, for one main reason - Warfront queues have been instant for Guardians and very long for the Defiant (10+ minutes in many cases). I don't really expect to see the population balance shift massively. I'm also way more familiar with the guardian content personally, so organizing that effort will be far easier for me. RP/PvP server was easily the most popular choice, so I think we're good to go on that front.
Since we have 25 x a lot of beta keys, if someone wants to lead a Defiant side PA guild, that is an option as well. Same server would be fine, I think we can make characters on both sides.
As far as beta's concerned, I'm not picky on faction. The Warfront-related reasoning appears sound. I just prefer the Defiant races from what I know now (who knows, maybe I will love Guardian lore during beta or something).
Posts
That's how I feel about WoW, these days. There's nothing wrong with it, it's still the best MMO on the market. But I've been doing it for 6 years. It's time for a change. People crave change for all manner of reasons. New challenges, etc. Over six years I've built a niche for myself on a server playing WoW, and I never really venture off to a new server, because I've done all the work.
Sometimes a new MMO is a great opportunity to re-build yourself a niche, maybe it won't be terribly original, maybe everything won't be brand new and unique, but you'll have to start over from scratch, and there is an appeal to that.
As long as Rift can offer me entertainment, even if I am constantly finding similarities in it from the games I've played previously, it will give me a new place to start over. To re-build myself another virtual "home".
For all that WoW has offered me in the past 6 years, there are a number of things that I love in MMO's that WoW has ever failed to capture me with. Like the completely lack-luster crafting, most of which is completely useless to me at high level, and not worth the effort at low level.
There's also the opportunity to make new gamer friends, and a brand new MMO is a great way to find people who aren't already deeply established somewhere already. (Like a guild or steady group of gamer-friends)
So really, the draw to any new MMO depends very heavily on what's making you look at new MMO's in the first place, and it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with the MMO you're coming from.
Battletag: Kain#1658
For instance, why would I spent countless hours in end-game instances trying to get a specific set of gear when I could just get something similar crafted? Why claw my way up the PvP ranks to achieve the high-end reward gear when there is something similar that is crafted?
You could, of course, make said gear so especially difficult and time consuming to craft that the amount of effort is equivalent, but how would that be anywhere near as enjoyable as actually playing the game to get the gear (PVP, instances, etc.). Making crafted gear too powerful undermines the efforts of the standard ways to gather gear. Add in an auction house and you've got everyone running around in the exact same armour, because it's way easier to save up some cash and buy it all at once.
I don't think crafting is something that we're going to see revolutionized any time soon in an MMO. So many games say they're going to, but the end result is the same shallow experience. You gather, you refine, and you assemble. I think we're going to see that same formula (with minor arbitrary variations) for years to come.
That's why I'm interested in it.
Too bad they can't re-skin the thing with Orcs and chaos so I can have a proper WAAAGGHHH.
Battletag: Kain#1658
I want to know more PA people on Twitter.
This is the very best thing
I'm so sick of WoW balance being centered almost solely around facilitating the PvP arena
Not to mention they aren't going to make vast sweeping changes, because there is actually a Soul made specifically to aid in PvP. You got your 'guard' for the warrior one, a detaunt for the mages/clerics, the Rogue soul seems to have poisons built around reducing casting speed and such.
Battletag: Kain#1658
But yeah with you being able to have 4 set-ups, there's nothing stopping you from keeping one with the PvP Soul for when you feel like bashing some heads.
Apparently as well, you are restricted in the points you can put into the soul depending on your PvP 'rank' which only goes up at level cap. So until you get to 50 you don't even need to worry about it.
Bard has always been my favorite type of class ever since the incredibly overpowered ones in Everquest (there were good reasons for Thott being one). Or Final Fantasy XI's bard: PURE insanely awesome support, coveted by all groups.
Unfortunately, judging by the clip the sound effects for a Bard in Rift are horrendous...I sincerely hope there's a way to turn those off or, better yet, that enough people complain so that they change it. I will be sure to report exactly that when I start playing. Maybe they are already placeholder sound effects?
Do you have a link for this? This sounds fantastic.
When asked on my profile page about what my biggest concerns for the game were, one of the things I listed was pve getting nerfed for lame pvp reasons.
Hopefully they'll follow through on this.
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?31021-Beta-5-Emails!
That's honestly a very good idea.
That, however, is not. Gating access to necessary shit for PVP makes for bad PVP. see: being a couple seasons behind in WOW gear.
While I realize you care bears want to hug it out or whatever (:P I like PVE too), it's pretty important to balance shit around PVP moreso than PVE, as the former is more sensitive to poorly balanced mechanics.
Besides, as Guild Wars has shown, you can have abilities which simply don't work on enemy players, which helps solve the issue. That's more strongly instanced than other MMOs, but the principal works well, and it's even implemented by WOW's terrible PVP system in a half-assed way (crowd control effects, mostly).
That's how Guild Wars does it, and it works fantastically. The WoW development team has said something about that compromising the cohesiveness of their game world or something like that. I don't really know.
I guess PM if you need one, as I don't want to post it for crawlers to grab. No zero day joins please
*edit* 22 remaining, and it sounds like others have more so please speak up!
It isn't such a problem in this case, because you don't need the PvP soul to have an effective PvP build. Plenty of PvP builds won't even use the thing.
Combing through some of my RL friends first, but if you somehow miraculously run out of uses feel free to shoot me a PM about it too.
That, and you can only put something like 21 points into a PvP tree, so even with a full PvP rank you'll still only be a few points up on someone who just got the tree.
As for VIP keys, I also have one! I'll post it up here tomorrow once I can give it to both of my roommates.
No worries, I'm only sad there's not an event this weekend, I could be playing nooooooooooooooooow
*edit* Speaking of, logging in the client has me downloading a 167mb patch from last event, giggity.
Although I imagine a lot of us have snagged VIP keys from Curse/ZAM, but this keeps us ready if others want to join later. Also perhaps get the OP to change the title to reflect this? In fact, I think that should be done ASAP.
Edit: I got one too btw, 24 uses left.
Client patched up and waiting.
I am thirsty for a fantasy MMO, but I'm not gonna play WoW, so the timing on this is ideal. I'm also kind of hoping we go Defiant. I cannot see myself playing anything but Dwarf on the Guardian sids.
As far as picking a server/faction for the PA beta guild: There was a bit more interest in Defiant, but I'm going to suggest going Guardian in the beta, for one main reason - Warfront queues have been instant for Guardians and very long for the Defiant (10+ minutes in many cases). I don't really expect to see the population balance shift massively. I'm also way more familiar with the guardian content personally, so organizing that effort will be far easier for me. RP/PvP server was easily the most popular choice, so I think we're good to go on that front.
Since we have 25 x a lot of beta keys, if someone wants to lead a Defiant side PA guild, that is an option as well. Same server would be fine, I think we can make characters on both sides.
-
Thanks Maddoc!
EDIT: Thanks, JohnHam!
Thanks!
Edit: And beta key get! Thanks again!
As far as beta's concerned, I'm not picky on faction. The Warfront-related reasoning appears sound. I just prefer the Defiant races from what I know now (who knows, maybe I will love Guardian lore during beta or something).