Alright, having played several box games (thanks again Matev) and having a better understanding of things now, it is time I believe to expand my forces. So, with the Cryx set, I have:
I'd like to expand at a reasonable pace, and so I think shooting for 25pts with a few more models is a good place to start. What are people's thoughts on this 25pt list:
-snip-
4 Solos and a pair more Arc Nodes, and as the chickens go down the Necrotech either fixes 'em or turns 'em into Scrap Thralls. Pretty cheap to buy, too, even if I get a few blisters of Scrap Thralls just in case. Thoughts? Also, on a side note, my brother is currently in expansion mode as well, and ordered a trio of Man-o-War Shocktroopers to play with his Khador box and his Sniper solo. Any thoughts on where he should expand/how I can destroy him?
Looks like you're pretty adamant on going with the tier list. First things first, you really don't need five dedicated arc nodes. Second, your Necrotech is going to get picked off pretty quickly, so I'd want at least 2. What I would do is replace the Nightwretches and Pistol Wraith with Ripjaws and a second Necrotech.
From there, you could pick up a Heavy Warjack Kit for a Reaper+Warwitch+Necrotech, or a Slayer+Pistol Wraith+Necrotech.
Time for Nemo's annual enormous goddamn game! This year is 150 points! Wanna see the list?
Of course you do.
Kommander Orsus Zoktavir
Beast-09
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
Spriggan
Spriggan
Karchev the Terrible
Behemoth
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
Kodiak
Kodiak
Vladimir, The Dark Prince
Berserker
Berserker
Drago
Juggernaut
Juggernaut
Doom Reavers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Greylord Escort
Doom Reavers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Iron Fang Uhlans (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Widowmakers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Fenris
Kovnik Markov
Widowmaker Marksman
I have too many models.
That is a lot of Juggernauts. You own a lot of Juggernauts.
Urcaen help me, I'm actually thinking of buying a Dawnguard Scyir.
The Scyir is the worst of Ret's 2 point Solo models.
However, the Scyir has to compete with the House Shyeel Magister and the Mage Hunter Assassin.
So it's kinda like saying that the Scyir is the least hot supermodel at the supermodel convention.
With his Flank, he hits the most reliably of the three and is the least "swingy" in his damage output. That said, the Mage-Hunter, when she swings, swings like a champ. The bitch took out in a single transfer a fully healthy Warpwolf Stalker and still did enough damage to take 8 off of Morvahna once. Was some ol' bullshit.
Not to distract from the bonergasm that is the Force Generator, but Zerkova's full new tier list.
New Zerkova Tier List
Khador non character warjacks with ranged weapons, Marauders
Greylord units, Kayazy units, Widowmaker units
Gorman di Wulfe, Greylord solos, Kayazy solos, Widowmaker solos.
Tier 1
Only models from this list
Benefit
Can take Vanguard light warjack.
FA non-character Greylords and Kayazy units +1
Tier 2
Army includes Gorman di Wulfe and 1 or more Greylord units
Benefit
3" AOE cloud effect for each Greylord unit within 20" of the back edge of deployment zone.
The clouds leave after 1st turn.
Tier 3
Army includes 1 or more Kayazy Assassin units.
Benefit
Deployment zone +2"
Tier 4
Army includes 3 or more warjacks.
Benefit
warjack point cost -1
Also apparently there was some new concept art of a Battle Mechanik Officer attachment in MoW-style armor.
PMAvers on
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My unnecessary hatred seems to be driven at PoM right now. I think its a cyclectic thing. But Menites and Trollbloods leave me no end of wanting to punch game designers sometimes. -_-
My unnecessary hatred seems to be driven at PoM right now. I think its a cyclectic thing. But Menites and Trollbloods leave me no end of wanting to punch game designers sometimes. -_-
And stuff.
Ah, we're not that bad. Take away the Choir and Vassals and our Jacks become Uber-gimped.
***
@PMAvers: Not taking any sucker's bets, but I give it a couple months at least, he hasn't even mentioned conversions yet. Though I'm sure we'll see a Dickean before too long.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
My unnecessary hatred seems to be driven at PoM right now. I think its a cyclectic thing. But Menites and Trollbloods leave me no end of wanting to punch game designers sometimes. -_-
And stuff.
Ah, we're not that bad. Take away the Choir and Vassals and our Jacks become Uber-gimped.
Menite jacks are cheap and powerful at the cost of being slow and giant focus hogs.
The choir is just our faction's Skarlock, MHA, Journeyman, Burrowers, Widowmakers, Typhon, Paingivers, or Druids. Those models that just really shouldn't exist, but do.
I'd like you to know Druids are not that bad I think. Mainly since unlike most the other of the list,w e pay out the ear for them. (Fun fact, 9pts. means that for 7 Druids you get pretty much 11+ of most stuff that's single-wound out there.)
Druids I can deal with. Widowmakers can DIE DIE DIE. Typhon I've handled. Jr. is usually just there. Just enough to be a pain in the ass, but not so much I have to deal with him. I've not faced the others enough to form opinion on them.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'd like you to know Druids are not that bad I think. Mainly since unlike most the other of the list,w e pay out the ear for them. (Fun fact, 9pts. means that for 7 Druids you get pretty much 11+ of most stuff that's single-wound out there.)
And stuff.
Ooooh, do I get to complain about spending 8pts for seven Gun Mages? This is gonna be fun!
[FACTIONS I PLAY] are(is) underpowered, and all of my wins are directly attributed to my skill!
[FACTIONS I LOSE TO] are(is) overpowered, and all of their wins are directly attributed their handicap!
[FACTIONS I WIN AGAINST] is(are) currently at an adequate power level!
Just saw Zerkova's tier at the top of thread(how the fuck did that happen). Have to say, it looks pretty good! 4pt Vanguards are an absolute steal, and helps keep Zerko from getting her shit ruined when goes to cast a spell.
Zerkova's feat gives her whole army Polarity Field, more or less. Should help her jacks get an alpha strike once in a while, maybe let the Marauders smite a heavy into the charge range of some unscrupulous Kayazy.
Ugh.....I don't know if I can choose what needs to die first in there. Eh, All Burn.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited January 2011
I've got another question. So I bought the bits to convert my Crusader into a Vanquisher, but I have to ask, is it worth it? In small battlebox games (aka, all I can currently play), the Crusader seems to be superior in every way since no one will be fielding infantry. However, once I expand, I can't imagine running a Crusader as my heavy hitter (I'm thinking Reckoner + Exemplars for my beat sticks).
I've got another question. So I bought the bits to convert my Crusader into a Vanquisher, but I have to ask, is it worth it? In small battlebox games (aka, all I can currently play), the Crusader seems to be superior in every way since no one will be fielding infantry. However, once I expand, I can't imagine running a Crusader as my heavy hitter (I'm thinking Reckoner + Exemplars for my beat sticks).
Reckoner is indeed one of our monster jacks, for his cost. But the Crusader's cost lets it find it's way into lists once in awhile as an el cheapo muscle choice.
Otherwise, you're correct in that once you start facing infantry, the Vanquisher is a solid choice. I would say if you've got the materials for conversion, might as well do it, if only because the situation to use it might come up.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
I've got another question. So I bought the bits to convert my Crusader into a Vanquisher, but I have to ask, is it worth it? In small battlebox games (aka, all I can currently play), the Crusader seems to be superior in every way since no one will be fielding infantry. However, once I expand, I can't imagine running a Crusader as my heavy hitter (I'm thinking Reckoner + Exemplars for my beat sticks).
That gun has a 14" threat, and with pKreoss' feat, your opponent can't screen his Caster. One PS14+3d6 followed by a POW 12+2d6(with no overboosted armor, I might add) makes him a great choice. The loss of 2 POW on his weapon, and the loss of his fist is a bit harsh, but I'd say it's worth it if you have the points.
Alright, having played several box games (thanks again Matev) and having a better understanding of things now, it is time I believe to expand my forces. So, with the Cryx set, I have:
I'd like to expand at a reasonable pace, and so I think shooting for 25pts with a few more models is a good place to start. What are people's thoughts on this 25pt list:
4 Solos and a pair more Arc Nodes, and as the chickens go down the Necrotech either fixes 'em or turns 'em into Scrap Thralls. Pretty cheap to buy, too, even if I get a few blisters of Scrap Thralls just in case. Thoughts? Also, on a side note, my brother is currently in expansion mode as well, and ordered a trio of Man-o-War Shocktroopers to play with his Khador box and his Sniper solo. Any thoughts on where he should expand/how I can destroy him?
You have 5 bonejacks. Personally, I only run 2-3 maximum in a 25 pt game. Mostly because outside of arc nodes, of which you probably don't have enough focus to spread around, the bonejacks themselves aren't very sturdy. Personally I'd swap out two of those bonejacks for a heavy, I like Reapers. Alternatively you could drop 3 bonejacks and gain a Deathjack-- which would still be able to cast your spells like the skarlock/arc nodes would, but would also be a pain for your enemy to deal with.
Beyond that suggestion, I'd say that you lack something usually critical to a Cryx army: Units. Cryx send hordes of units to die and bring them back over and over again. You seem to be trying to do that with the necrotechs in terms of your bonejack repairing, but I feel like those techs would get killed and you'd be fucked in more cases than you'd like. Generally having at least one unit of something gives you more diversity of play than a hobble of bonejacks forming a line to protect Denny.
Your list could be pretty potent, with the right use of that Slayer, but I figure it's pretty niche given its reliance on the bonejacks. With regard to fighting Khador, Bane Thralls do well to lower MOW and Khador's high armor, but using Deneghra+ something that hits hard would do the trick too. Probably a ripjaw, or some Bane Knights would be a good defense against his MOW, though speed or your Pistol Wraiths are probably your one way to deal with his sniper.
Just a thought, since no one's chimed in and I only really play Cryx.
Dyrwen66 on
Just an ancient PA person who doesn't leave the house much.
I'd like you to know Druids are not that bad I think. Mainly since unlike most the other of the list,w e pay out the ear for them. (Fun fact, 9pts. means that for 7 Druids you get pretty much 11+ of most stuff that's single-wound out there.)
And stuff.
Ooooh, do I get to complain about spending 8pts for seven Gun Mages? This is gonna be fun!
I'm not trying to complain about Druids. I think they're probably pretty failry cost at 9pts for all of 'em when you compare them to what they get out of the deal (for instnace, they get better ARM, Elemetnal Protection, better utility, Pathfinder, and Reach over the Gunmages. And Gunmages can generally on average just cap a druid, while Druids can't be said to do the same).
Just that I think that, while Druids are strong, they are 9pts, and I think justifiably 9pts. strong.
I'm not trying to complain about Druids. I think they're probably pretty failry cost at 9pts for all of 'em when you compare them to what they get out of the deal (for instnace, they get better ARM, Elemetnal Protection, better utility, Pathfinder, and Reach over the Gunmages. And Gunmages can generally on average just cap a druid, while Druids can't be said to do the same).
Just that I think that, while Druids are strong, they are 9pts, and I think justifiably 9pts. strong.
And stuff.
Fair. I feel the same way about ATGM. I just felt the need to PPForum this argument up a bit. :P
I dunno that there's a Circle model/unit that I would put on the "WTF were they thinking?" list, as they tend to be tricksy and buff-based.
Indeed, just "I'm playing this why again?" But you learn, you roll the dice, have some laughs.
Warmachine is, I think, the only game where I didn't come to that point.
Not due to any talent on my part, but rather things like 'pFeora with 2 focus survives 7 attacks from Mulg with both Carnage and Rage, then kills enemy warlock with fire damage'. Now I'm at the point where when I lose, I feel like I was fairly outplayed; except for [FACTIONS I LOSE TO], those guys are assholes.
So, is there any mercenary that feels worth taking with Cryx? More specifically pAsphyxious.
Not that I find the Cryx unit choices lacking, but I'd like to know what more experienced players think about mercs.
Azra on
- The difference between Gods and Daemons depends largely on where one is standing at the moment -
Posts
Looks like you're pretty adamant on going with the tier list. First things first, you really don't need five dedicated arc nodes. Second, your Necrotech is going to get picked off pretty quickly, so I'd want at least 2. What I would do is replace the Nightwretches and Pistol Wraith with Ripjaws and a second Necrotech.
From there, you could pick up a Heavy Warjack Kit for a Reaper+Warwitch+Necrotech, or a Slayer+Pistol Wraith+Necrotech.
The Scyir is the worst of Ret's 2 point Solo models.
However, the Scyir has to compete with the House Shyeel Magister and the Mage Hunter Assassin.
So it's kinda like saying that the Scyir is the least hot supermodel at the supermodel convention.
That is a lot of Juggernauts. You own a lot of Juggernauts.
With his Flank, he hits the most reliably of the three and is the least "swingy" in his damage output. That said, the Mage-Hunter, when she swings, swings like a champ. The bitch took out in a single transfer a fully healthy Warpwolf Stalker and still did enough damage to take 8 off of Morvahna once. Was some ol' bullshit.
She turned into a forest that turn. <_<
And stuff.
Pants. Exploding.
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PP: "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOU."
Also: More angrybald elves. I'm going to have to buy this now.
I dunno, I think "Suddenly, Gunblades! Thousands of them!" is pretty sweet, but that's me. But yah, this bad boy would be nice to have.
Also apparently there was some new concept art of a Battle Mechanik Officer attachment in MoW-style armor.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Why does it give me a good sense of this. Is. AWESOME!
Because Torch is awesome. I have an intense, undying hatred of him, as I do with all Khadoran things, but I still respect their power.
And stuff.
So what's the over/under on him modding a heavy into having dick arms?
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Ah, we're not that bad. Take away the Choir and Vassals and our Jacks become Uber-gimped.
***
@PMAvers: Not taking any sucker's bets, but I give it a couple months at least, he hasn't even mentioned conversions yet. Though I'm sure we'll see a Dickean before too long.
Menite jacks are cheap and powerful at the cost of being slow and giant focus hogs.
The choir is just our faction's Skarlock, MHA, Journeyman, Burrowers, Widowmakers, Typhon, Paingivers, or Druids. Those models that just really shouldn't exist, but do.
And stuff.
ANd stuff.
Ooooh, do I get to complain about spending 8pts for seven Gun Mages? This is gonna be fun!
TL;DR: My faction costs too much for good stuff and everyone else' faction is OP and undercosted.
Given that his Menoth army is pretty vanilla, from what I understand. . . not that high.
[FACTIONS I LOSE TO] are(is) overpowered, and all of their wins are directly attributed their handicap!
[FACTIONS I WIN AGAINST] is(are) currently at an adequate power level!
Oh, yeah, I figured. I just mostly wanted to make a Legion-dong-hands-beast joke.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
So that's how you make Nephilim.....
Something like:
Zerkova
Vanguard 4
Vanguard 4
Marauder 6
Marauder 6
Juggernaut 6
Greylords 4
Greylords 4
Kayazy+UA 10
Kayazy+UA 10
Gorman 2
Zerkova's feat gives her whole army Polarity Field, more or less. Should help her jacks get an alpha strike once in a while, maybe let the Marauders smite a heavy into the charge range of some unscrupulous Kayazy.
Ugh.....I don't know if I can choose what needs to die first in there. Eh, All Burn.
Reckoner is indeed one of our monster jacks, for his cost. But the Crusader's cost lets it find it's way into lists once in awhile as an el cheapo muscle choice.
Otherwise, you're correct in that once you start facing infantry, the Vanquisher is a solid choice. I would say if you've got the materials for conversion, might as well do it, if only because the situation to use it might come up.
That gun has a 14" threat, and with pKreoss' feat, your opponent can't screen his Caster. One PS14+3d6 followed by a POW 12+2d6(with no overboosted armor, I might add) makes him a great choice. The loss of 2 POW on his weapon, and the loss of his fist is a bit harsh, but I'd say it's worth it if you have the points.
You have 5 bonejacks. Personally, I only run 2-3 maximum in a 25 pt game. Mostly because outside of arc nodes, of which you probably don't have enough focus to spread around, the bonejacks themselves aren't very sturdy. Personally I'd swap out two of those bonejacks for a heavy, I like Reapers. Alternatively you could drop 3 bonejacks and gain a Deathjack-- which would still be able to cast your spells like the skarlock/arc nodes would, but would also be a pain for your enemy to deal with.
Beyond that suggestion, I'd say that you lack something usually critical to a Cryx army: Units. Cryx send hordes of units to die and bring them back over and over again. You seem to be trying to do that with the necrotechs in terms of your bonejack repairing, but I feel like those techs would get killed and you'd be fucked in more cases than you'd like. Generally having at least one unit of something gives you more diversity of play than a hobble of bonejacks forming a line to protect Denny.
Your list could be pretty potent, with the right use of that Slayer, but I figure it's pretty niche given its reliance on the bonejacks. With regard to fighting Khador, Bane Thralls do well to lower MOW and Khador's high armor, but using Deneghra+ something that hits hard would do the trick too. Probably a ripjaw, or some Bane Knights would be a good defense against his MOW, though speed or your Pistol Wraiths are probably your one way to deal with his sniper.
Just a thought, since no one's chimed in and I only really play Cryx.
Just that I think that, while Druids are strong, they are 9pts, and I think justifiably 9pts. strong.
And stuff.
Fair. I feel the same way about ATGM. I just felt the need to PPForum this argument up a bit. :P
I dunno that there's a Circle model/unit that I would put on the "WTF were they thinking?" list, as they tend to be tricksy and buff-based.
Indeed, just "I'm playing this why again?" But you learn, you roll the dice, have some laughs.
Warmachine is, I think, the only game where I didn't come to that point.
Not due to any talent on my part, but rather things like 'pFeora with 2 focus survives 7 attacks from Mulg with both Carnage and Rage, then kills enemy warlock with fire damage'. Now I'm at the point where when I lose, I feel like I was fairly outplayed; except for [FACTIONS I LOSE TO], those guys are assholes.
Not that I find the Cryx unit choices lacking, but I'd like to know what more experienced players think about mercs.
Edit: Thanks Carnarvon!
Cooool.