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[WoW] [Mages] sheep moon

WaltWalt Waller Arcane EnchantedFrozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
edited June 2011 in MMO Extravaganza
Moon-Sheep.jpg

Mage Thread for Mages
Welcome to the mage thread, wherein things are turned into sheep and monkeys and penguins and turtles and stuff.

From the official guide:
Blizzard wrote:
Mages demolish their foes with arcane incantations. Although they wield powerful offensive spells, mages are fragile and lightly armored, making them particularly vulnerable to close-range attacks. Wise mages make careful use of their spells to keep their foes at a distance or hold them in place. Also they are better than Warlocks.

If you want to blow up things and be a wonderful source of crowd control Mage could be the class for you! Mages are dynamic and fun to play and offer 3 different DPS specs for you to destroy things with. Fire is all about blowing things up and lighting things on fire. Frost is all about blowing things up and freezing them in place or slowing them down, as well as making people angry about PvP balance. Arcane is all about being incredibly bori- I mean blowing stuff up with magic missles and managing mana! (AND BEING BORING UAGH ITS SO BORING SERIOUSLY)

Mages are the only class that can make sweet portals to cities, and they can also conjure food so that you don't have to wait a half an hour for the healers mana pool to recover between pulls. Everyone loves having mages in their group.

Example Specs and How2Play
Check the spoiler underneath to learn 2 play (courtesy of Oghulk)

These specs are for a guideline, not as a statement of fact! These are all more or less PvE oriented. Use your imagination! Mages aren't as locked into cookie cutter specs as other classes can be. You may find different specs to be optimal for different fights.

Special note on gemming: ALWAYS GEM FOR INT. The rules for gemming are:
Red -> Int
Blue/Yellow -> Int/Secondary stat ONLY IF the socket bonus will account for the loss of int
Example: Two socket item with 1 Red and 1 Blue gem, with a +20 int socket bonus. Gem pure Int into Red, and gem Int/Hit into Blue, since the +20 int bonus from the socket gives you a "free lunch".
Example 2: Another two socket item, 1 Red, and 1 Blue, with a +10 int socket bonus. Put pure int gems in BOTH slots, since losing 10 int for 10 hit is a net DPS loss.

FIRE -> http://www.wowhead.com/talent#oohZrfhbkbRRsfoc:oczoMkVm0
Fire works quite similar to arcane in that you have a burn phase and conserve phase, the only difference being that your burn phase will last quite a long time depending on the mana regeneration of your raid composition.

The priority rotation works like this:
Is Critical Mass up? Scorch (or Pyroblast depending).
Is Living Bomb up? Living Bomb
Is Hot Streak proc'd? Pyroblast
Is Ignite up along with the above DoTs? Combustion
Fireball

The stat weights for Fire is:
Hit to 17% > Crit >>>> Haste TO ~5% HASTE FOR EXTRA DOT > Mastery > Haste after 5%
Crit is your strongest stat as fire right now, so the more the better.

FROST -> http://www.wowhead.com/talent#o0bZfcZffMosIszMo:aMRkMq0mc
Frost's priority system:
Is Fingers of Frost up? Is Deep Freeze off Cooldown? Deep Freeze
Is Freeze (Pet's Ranged Frost Nova) off Cooldown? Is DF off Cooldown? Deep Freeze
Is Fingers of Frost up? Ice Lance
Is Brain Freeze up? Frostfire Bolt
Frostbolt

The stat weights for Frost are:
Hit to 17% > Crit to 33% > Mastery > Haste

ARCANE ->http://www.wowhead.com/talent#ohIMrRMRrRRorZc:s0Va0ozmV
The basic play style for Arcane includes two different phases; your burn phase and your conserve phase. You'll start off the beginning of the fight in your burn phase, going through Abx4Abarr then mana gemming for the spell power buff and subsequently using Arcane Power and trinkets and everything to spam Arcane Blast till roughly 40% mana, at which point you'll want to evocate and then switch to a conserve phase of ABx2Abarr/ABx2AM or something similar to that depending on mana pool.

TL;DR:
Fight Start --> ABx4AM/Abarr -- > Mana Gem/AP/Trinket/Images --> AB till 40% mana --> Evocate --> ABx2Abarr/AM --> Refresh.

I'm not sure about the stat weights right now but I assume for arcane it goes something like this:
Hit to 17% > Mastery(?) > Haste(?) > Crit(?)

Excellent Mage resources

Elitist Jerks Mage subforum - http://elitistjerks.com/f75/ - Go here for up to date information about Specs, Gemming, Gearing, Priorities, anything and everything related to PvE

Arena Junkies Mage subforum - http://www.arenajunkies.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48 - PvP stuff!

Walt on
«134567

Posts

  • Agent CooperAgent Cooper Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I've noticed a new trend in dungeons where I'll polymorph an enemy that is attacking but standing away from the mob around the tank, and the tank will go out of his way to run over and break that poly despite there being other enemies to kill.

    I guess using polymorph emasculates tanks or something? Also emasculates hunter pets.

    Agent Cooper on
  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Hello mage thread. Is this where we gloat about being able to easily traverse the exciting new world of Cataclysm that no longer has a hub city with portals?

    Bobble on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I was wondering when someone would take up the mantle of the mage thread, sheesh!

    Also, I highly endorse mages as my caster class of choice. Fire spec makes my pants excited, always has, always will.

    Henroid on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2011
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    Morkath on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well now I feel stupid making that mage thread and not noticing there already was one.

    Oghulk on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm still not sure how I feel about scorch being able to become a free-to-cast spell.

    Henroid on
  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I get a little miffed when moon is assigned to something other than sheep. There are traditions to be respected!

    juice for jesus on
  • EnigEnig a.k.a. Ansatz Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I've noticed a new trend in dungeons where I'll polymorph an enemy that is attacking but standing away from the mob around the tank, and the tank will go out of his way to run over and break that poly despite there being other enemies to kill.

    I guess using polymorph emasculates tanks or something? Also emasculates hunter pets.

    It's not that, it's an issue of trust. For a long time we tanks have had to pick up all those adds and AoE-threat the bejeezus out of them. Those loose adds are horrible, horrible things to us and we feel we must pick them up. Sometimes this impulse causes a delay in noticing that our friendly mage way over in the back has taken care of it for us.

    Enig on
    ibpFhR6PdsPw80.png
    Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Morkath wrote: »
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    No, it's just even more RNG that Blizzard has insisted they don't like.
    You have to wait for:
    Pyroblast! procs (Because 2 crits in a row with under 30% crit rating is hell, and it seems the "activating" pyroblast like Arcane Missiles just plain stops working.)
    Ignite is up (which is frustrating, as 2 crits that proc Pyroblast! also means that you probably just screwed over most of your ignite)
    Living Bomb (not difficult, but I've had times where Living Bomb was at .5s left, and in the 1.5s or whatever it took me to recast it, Ignite fell off and refused to go back.)

    It's very good when it's up and running, and even better when we can Impact (Yay, RNG again!) it all over the place. But for the most part, it's Blizzard feeding us a load of shit about "Not liking RNG heavy classes".

    Well, not entirely.
    They don't seem to like Mages.

    The Muffin Man on
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Someone told me to sheep circle the other day. What the hell.

    Lorahalo on
    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ugh, nothing is worse than when they say "sheep square". Disgusting. What are these people, neanderthals?

    Still loving Frost. I am still dubious about the changes coming in the patch...

    I like my deep freeze crits where they are at 90k, thank you very much! In this raiding content where burst damage is magnified by fight mechanics the control of frost is very welcome.

    Corp.Shephard on
  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    They made Frost terribly fun, I am tempted to raid Frost.

    Xehalus on
  • -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I really like fire, but something to smooth it out a bit would be nice. Sometimes it's pyro pyro pyro with full combustion rolls and sometimes not so much. Seems like the only real answer is more crit, but there just isn't enough at this tier.

    -SPI- on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    -SPI- wrote: »
    I really like fire, but something to smooth it out a bit would be nice. Sometimes it's pyro pyro pyro with full combustion rolls and sometimes not so much. Seems like the only real answer is more crit, but there just isn't enough at this tier.

    Agreed, there are some heroic bosses where I end the fight feeling like I didn't do enough because I got maybe 2 or 3 hot streaks the entire fight and I end up below the other DPS.

    Then there are fights where I get more than one hotstreak chain where nobody else can touch me.


    On another topic, do other people use teleport tol barad so they don't have to run across the entire island to turn quests in? :P

    Nobody on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Morkath wrote: »
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    No, it's just even more RNG that Blizzard has insisted they don't like.
    You have to wait for:
    Pyroblast! procs (Because 2 crits in a row with under 30% crit rating is hell, and it seems the "activating" pyroblast like Arcane Missiles just plain stops working.)
    Ignite is up (which is frustrating, as 2 crits that proc Pyroblast! also means that you probably just screwed over most of your ignite)
    Living Bomb (not difficult, but I've had times where Living Bomb was at .5s left, and in the 1.5s or whatever it took me to recast it, Ignite fell off and refused to go back.)

    It's very good when it's up and running, and even better when we can Impact (Yay, RNG again!) it all over the place. But for the most part, it's Blizzard feeding us a load of shit about "Not liking RNG heavy classes".

    Well, not entirely.
    They don't seem to like Mages.

    No no it's totally okay now because they made it do damage aside from the DOT when you cast it!

    /not-being-serious

    Henroid on
  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    On another topic, do other people use teleport tol barad so they don't have to run across the entire island to turn quests in? :P

    Hells yes. Also use it to get to Org.

    juice for jesus on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    Isn't combustion bad? That is what everyone in GC has said so far.

    No, it's just even more RNG that Blizzard has insisted they don't like.
    You have to wait for:
    Pyroblast! procs (Because 2 crits in a row with under 30% crit rating is hell, and it seems the "activating" pyroblast like Arcane Missiles just plain stops working.)
    Ignite is up (which is frustrating, as 2 crits that proc Pyroblast! also means that you probably just screwed over most of your ignite)
    Living Bomb (not difficult, but I've had times where Living Bomb was at .5s left, and in the 1.5s or whatever it took me to recast it, Ignite fell off and refused to go back.)

    It's very good when it's up and running, and even better when we can Impact (Yay, RNG again!) it all over the place. But for the most part, it's Blizzard feeding us a load of shit about "Not liking RNG heavy classes".

    Well, not entirely.
    They don't seem to like Mages.

    No no it's totally okay now because they made it do damage aside from the DOT when you cast it!

    /not-being-serious

    The best description of combustion I've seen so far (I think this was in the fire mage issues thread on the official forums):

    Combustion adds up all of the fire dots you have on the target (Ignite, etc), and gets a figure. This figure is then thrown out and /random is done to find out how much damage it's actually going to do.

    Nobody on
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Love the picture in the OP

    Smaug6 on
    steam_sig.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I have ran into a lot of people claiming the condom or diamond is sheep and it's always been that for them?

    I benched my mage till the patch other than porting people for gold since I felt I was not hitting as hard as I should be with fire spells

    Brainleech on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Best boss opening 'rotation':

    Freeze > Icy Veins > Frostfire Orb > Deep Freeze > Cold Snap > Deep Freeze > Frostfire Orb.

    James on
  • Corp.ShephardCorp.Shephard Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Does haste actually impact Frostfire orb in anyway? Is it important to put Icy Veins before Frostfire Orb?

    Corp.Shephard on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Doesn't Frostfire Orb just go away if you cast again?

    Or are you just doing another FFB after the first goes away?

    Oghulk on
  • DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Still not approved by the FDA Dublin, OHRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    DietarySupplement on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    That was for the fire spec I wrote, and basically Crit is incredibly better than Mastery and Haste, so much so that if you come across an epic that has crit, get it.

    And yeah Hit is more valuable if not equal to Int, but both are still better than Crit, while crit is incredibly better than mastery, which is only slightly better than Haste.

    Oh wait forgot something, OP change the fire thing to be:

    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>> Haste TO ~5% HASTE FOR EXTRA DOT > Mastery > Haste after 5%

    Oghulk on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    ... Why is mastery low on that totem pole exactly?

    Edit - Well... okay actually nevermind.

    Henroid on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ugh, nothing is worse than when they say "sheep square". Disgusting. What are these people, neanderthals?
    Well, both moon and square are bluish, so they're kind of half right.

    forty on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... Why is mastery low on that totem pole exactly?

    Edit - Well... okay actually nevermind.

    The fine folks over at EJ have been doing the math, but also because Pyroblast procs, along with ignite, can completely change your DPS depending on how many you get, Crit is basically awesome.

    The reason Haste is worse than mastery is because the only thing Haste is good for on fire is to increase the amount of ticks per application, which is why haste until ~5% is better than mastery. It takes a certain amount, right between 4.5 and 5% that gives you a second tick, then the amount required for another tick raises to an insane amount to the point where mastery just becomes better.

    Mages in general are just extremely based around Crit, but they're kind of changing it a bit to where it'll definitely be better than Haste due to the increase in it in both Fire and Frost.

    Oghulk on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I don't think haste has an effect on FFO, so it may be more efficient to cast veins immediately before cold snap. It's only a second or two that's being lost, which isn't much of a difference either way.
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Doesn't Frostfire Orb just go away if you cast again?

    Or are you just doing another FFB after the first goes away?

    I've seen two out at once, but it's something to look into. If it does disappear, it's getting about half its ticks off, maybe not the most efficient use.

    Thanks for raising those questions.

    James on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Was wondering because if it does, that use of cooldowns at the beginning would be incredibly efficient, since they'd be back up later on in the fight.

    Oghulk on
  • HoA-playerHoA-player Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... Why is mastery low on that totem pole exactly?

    Edit - Well... okay actually nevermind.

    The fine folks over at EJ have been doing the math, but also because Pyroblast procs, along with ignite, can completely change your DPS depending on how many you get, Crit is basically awesome.

    The reason Haste is worse than mastery is because the only thing Haste is good for on fire is to increase the amount of ticks per application, which is why haste until ~5% is better than mastery. It takes a certain amount, right between 4.5 and 5% that gives you a second tick, then the amount required for another tick raises to an insane amount to the point where mastery just becomes better.

    Mages in general are just extremely based around Crit, but they're kind of changing it a bit to where it'll definitely be better than Haste due to the increase in it in both Fire and Frost.

    Actually because of how buggy ignite is combined with the reduction in mana cost in the next patch, haste will be better then crit.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/p9/#post1853966

    HoA-player on
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    It's also wrong.
    If you gear for Hit at the expense of Int you're doing it wrong.

    The Muffin Man on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    It's also wrong.
    If you gear for Hit at the expense of Int you're doing it wrong.

    Right, and looking at stat weights Int is greater than Hit, but also since you would never have to worry about reforging Int, and since all items of a same item level are Int there would be no reason to think about it except in the areas of enchanting and gemming, in which case you always want Int.

    And epics are always better than blues, never downgrade a piece just for another stat simply because Int is incredibly powerful.

    Oghulk on
  • LykouraghLykouragh Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    There are also trinkets where you have to choose between passive int and a passive rating.

    Also, people screw up their gemming pretty often.

    Lykouragh on
  • JamesJames Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Was wondering because if it does, that use of cooldowns at the beginning would be incredibly efficient, since they'd be back up later on in the fight.

    Turns out it dissapears. A shame, but its just a 15 second wait.

    James on
  • WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I took out int from the stat weights (it is always the best stat) and added a special note on gemming so that you can't make terrible decisions on gemming.

    Walt on
  • OghulkOghulk Tinychat Janitor TinychatRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    That's probably the best way to do it, because in all honesty your primary stat will always be better than anything else, which just could make gearing and reforging kinda confusing at times.

    Oghulk on
  • XynnXynn Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ok, this may be me showing how horribly awful I am at PvP but Ive been really curious. The PvPers in my guild have been raging about Frost Mages being so godly and how much Deep Freeze sucks. But thats where Im confused. How are they taking damage from Deep Freeze? Every time Ive used it in PvP, it just freezes the target and then I try to spam Ice Lance. Am I doing it wrong?

    Xynn on
  • TyberiusTyberius Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    It's the stun aspect they hate about it is my guess. I loathe fighting Frost Mages on my paladin due to all of the control they have and by gaining FoF procs from Freeze, Frost Bolts (while you're stunned/rooted) or by swings of my sword (via Frost Armor) those Ice Lances hurt.

    Tyberius on
  • DietarySupplementDietarySupplement Still not approved by the FDA Dublin, OHRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    You know what blows?

    Not getting any new spells from 58 to 68.

    Outlands is already boring enough.

    DietarySupplement on
  • Catalus110Catalus110 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I'm kind of a dumb goose, so answer me this: in the OP is says:
    Hit to 17% > Int > Crit >>>>>>> Mastery > Haste

    Does that mean hit trumps int trumps crit A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOTS over mastery and haste? In other words, worry more about the former and then the latter?

    It's also wrong.
    If you gear for Hit at the expense of Int you're doing it wrong.

    Right, and looking at stat weights Int is greater than Hit, but also since you would never have to worry about reforging Int, and since all items of a same item level are Int there would be no reason to think about it except in the areas of enchanting and gemming, in which case you always want Int.

    And epics are always better than blues, never downgrade a piece just for another stat simply because Int is incredibly powerful.

    <Head explode!>:shock: I seriously didn't know this! I thought reaching the hit cap was highest priority. My item level is about 334, I think, and I've been gemming and enchanting for hit this whole time! So now I better replace all my gems and enchants (if applicable) with +int or +int/hit, as stated in the OP.

    I'm Arcane Spec. Is lightweave embroidery (+~500 spell power proc) on cloak considered to be better than the +50 int enchant? The elitist jerks page seemed kinda ambiguous on that subject. The numbers were "assuming maximum up-time" which is kinda silly.

    Catalus110 on
This discussion has been closed.