if stuff goes too far you can enable someone to do crazy shit, so its good that at least a decision was made and consequences were had
the idea of living with him is a bad one. from experience in this area, providing a guiding hand for a sibling in adulthood when that person has ways they don't want to change or straight up can't is a horrible idea
Foolproofthats what my hearts becomein that place you dare not look staring back at youRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
*reposted from Brain Problems thread* (I can't bring myself to retype this story right now.)
So me and my girlfriend got in a fight for valentines day. In truth me and her daughter had words and that lead to the problems.
Her daughter is almost 17 and has recently dropped out of high school. She needed her parents permission to do so and she got it by refusing to go to school. She was locked up in kid's jail three or four times for attendance problems in the last year and a half. Each time her mother had to miss work (as a school teacher) to go to court.
The court costs and probation fees only added to money problems we are all having. Her mother already needs to work two jobs 6-7 days a week to make ends meet. I live in my own house and we could all live together (to save money) except for the bullshit caused by this problem child. She sleeps all day while everyone else is at work or school and then keeps her mother and sisters awake all night when she gets bored and wants attention.
She has a ten year old sister that she sets a terrible example for and the littlest girl has gotten more and more disobedient in the last two years. Now she is trying to get her sisters to skip school and stay home with her because she is lonely.
In my opinion the biggest reason there is so much strife and so little discipline is because this teen has been diagnosed with aspergers. She is very intelligent, aggressive, and manipulative. She doesn't seem to have the ability to feel shame, remorse, or guilt. Her mother can't seem to enforce discipline because she thinks her daughter has had so much taken away by her condition that she can't bear to take away anything else or put any punishments into place.
Her mother is trained to work and has worked with children with emotional and mental disturbances. She has done a great job with her other children and works so hard for her family. I really try to follow her lead but I can't turn a blind eye to everything like she does.
I come from a family with a history of physical and mental abuse. When I see this spoiled brat mistreating her mom and sisters I lose control sometimes and the shouting and name calling starts. I confront her with the harm she does and unfortunately engage in name calling but it doesn't go any further than that. This however pisses her mom off at me to no end.
I take as much as I can and then when I can't take any more I end up with a mean spirited teenager and her mom pissed off at me. I am a long ways from perfect but considering the things this brat has done and said to me and the people I care a great deal for, then I think I have shown remarkable restraint on hundreds (thousands?) of occasions. I also care for her and the harm she is doing to herself but no one believes me when I talk about this. Me and this kid have a strong personality conflict but it hasn't made me an irrational monster or anything even close.
This teenager has family histories of mental problems and addiction in both her mother's and father's families. The is also a good number of very bright and successful people from both families. I think I see signs of sadistic behavior and some sociopathic behaviors. Whenever I bring this up my girlfriend she just ignores my concerns and is pretty mean to me until I shut up about it.
I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone but I am worried that things will eventually lead to someone being seriously hurt. She already abuses her mother and sisters incredibly and she does a pretty good job on me when I don't fight back.
I'm pretty much an insect to her and I'm sure she'd destroy me in a second if she had a simple way to do it and could get away with it. As it is she only makes threats of violence and has not engaged in overt violence. She has accused me of some horrible things though and thankfully she is a terrible liar or someone might have taken her seriously. She can't stand to touch other people or have them touch her so I guess I'm pretty safe but I worry about her and others.
I worry that some day she will feel the kind of rage she has for me towards someone who can't defend themselves. I worry that she hates herself as much or more than she hates me or some other people and that she might hurt herself.
A lot of the "discussion" between me and her mother last night involved me saying she needed professional (and maybe full time) help and that her mother needed to understand that things were headed for a bad place otherwise. All I succeeded in was pissing off her mother again.
Her father is no help. He is a full on psycho and shouldn't even be around his own children. The kid doesn't blow him any shit because he has pinned her against a wall and choked her out when she has in the past. His abusive behavior certainly doesn't help but the real problem from him is probably more nature than nurture. They both have the same abusive and manipulative behaviors and personalities.
So to sum it all up. The kid has serious problems and causes more problems. The mother and father don't seem to be helping. The rest of the adults in her life have pretty much washed their hands of the whole situation and most of that is because the mother is far to defensive when people want to help. I care and worry about all the harm that can come out of such a fucked up situation but I can't even bring up the subject without my girlfriend freezing me out and acting like I'm a monster or something.
I'm an adult and I can handle lots of abuse from a shit head teenager but I can't handle all of it. When it gets to be too much and I can't stay silent any more I get the cold shoulder and guilt trips and the rest on top of the shame I feel for losing my temper with a "child".
I wanted to vent a little but also to ask for any advice or help that you all might be able to give me. My main problem is that I can't stand to see people I care about abused even (and especially) when the abuser is someone I care about and want to protect.
Foolproof on
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Foolproofthats what my hearts becomein that place you dare not look staring back at youRegistered Userregular
edited February 2011
well tugga I think it is true that misery loves company. I'm sorry to hear about your brother's problems and how they are impacting your family.
I think you and your folks are good people. It would be so easy to ignore things until your bro ended up in jail but you all seem to want better for him and that is a pure expression of love. This is a big problem and it may get worse but having a good family and good hearts will protect you and yours from many other calamities. Being good people you won't have to travel some of the rough roads other people do.
I don't know how to give advice on you decision. I think sometimes things need to reach a breaking point before a really tough choice can be made. I like to think about some problems and how they are like frogs who will hop out of hot water when thrown in but that will let themselves cook if the water starts lukewarm and is then heated to boiling. If all the bad stuff happened in one day or one week then your choice would be easier but since it happens spread out over years you get used to it. People adapt to bad situations and they just keep suffering until things get so far beyond bad that there is no other way to cope.
I don't think their is any shame in acting before things get to the critical stage but some people can't make the call until the pain drives them to it. I'm sure some of it involves the feelings of guilt and that people need to feel like they had no other choice.
You can see from my post above that I have a girlfriend who can't throw anybody overboard even to save everyone else in the lifeboat. Her oldest child has convinced her middle girl that she is ugly and makes her feel guilty about being liked by everyone. The middle child is the sweetest nicest person you'd ever want to know but I worry that her sister's abuse is giving her an image complex.
Her sister's autism and antisocial behavior has made it nearly impossible for the mother or kids to have friends over to the house. They all have their relationships damaged by their autistic relative's antisocial attitude. They have trouble getting the friends that could help them endure their difficulties and then feel guilty for having friends when their sister/daughter has none.
From reading your posts and from my own experiences I'd just like to tell you to look out for yourself and the rest of your family as much as you look out for your brother. I'm sure you all suffer more than you realize. You should look for a support group for yourself and you mother. It can help to know other people who have to deal with these problems too. It can help you to be there for someone else who has the same problems. It is not easy to open your heart to more of this sort of suffering but it helps to know that you are not alone and that people would want to help you if they could.
Your brother's story may end as sadly as it has been going so far and I'm sure this will devastate your family even more. You need to be strong for yourself and your parents/siblings. Whatever happens they will suffer alongside of your brother and the sadness I'm sure you feel at not being able to help him may be mitigated somewhat by the actual good you can do for them and others.
A lot of the "discussion" between me and her mother last night involved me saying she needed professional (and maybe full time) help and that her mother needed to understand that things were headed for a bad place otherwise. All I succeeded in was pissing off her mother again.
I would agree with you, probably the reason her mum took it so hard and didn't like to hear it was because she doesn't want to feel like she can't handle her own kid and that she needs others to step in.
Liiya on
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Foolproofthats what my hearts becomein that place you dare not look staring back at youRegistered Userregular
A lot of the "discussion" between me and her mother last night involved me saying she needed professional (and maybe full time) help and that her mother needed to understand that things were headed for a bad place otherwise. All I succeeded in was pissing off her mother again.
I would agree with you, probably the reason her mum took it so hard and didn't like to hear it was because she doesn't want to feel like she can't handle her own kid and that she needs others to step in.
You are right Liiya and I think my girlfriend knows this deep done inside but she is not ready to admit it. Nothing really terrible has happened so she just retreats to denial. I think if she is forced to come around because of some tragic happening that she will do the right thing but she can't make the leap until she has to do it. I want to avoid the worst that can happen but I don't know how.
My girlfriend and her middle daughter show some masochistic tendencies (or at least extreme passivity in the face of abuse) and my girlfriend's oldest daughter and ex-husband are both clearly aggressive, abusive, and probably sadistic/sociopathic.
I have a friend who worked at a state mental hospital. After a patient brutally murdered another patient in a bathroom he told me how the worst kinds of abuse can happen when a passive person and an overly aggressive person spend time near one another. People that don't fight back or defend themselves just bring out the worst even in mild bullies. That conversation with him comes back to me often when I see my girlfriend and her daughter in conflict.
We found a stray cat last night. Took it to the emergency care vet and got worm medicine (hook and ringworm infestation). No tags, owner never registered the chip but we found the owner's phone numbers through animal control, where they adopted the animal.
Called the owner, owner says it is an "outside cat". Had no clue that it was a she, kept calling it a "he". Wanted the animal back.
We gave it back, because we legally had to. But goddammit we didn't want to. If we see the cat again, we're keeping it.
Posts
if stuff goes too far you can enable someone to do crazy shit, so its good that at least a decision was made and consequences were had
the idea of living with him is a bad one. from experience in this area, providing a guiding hand for a sibling in adulthood when that person has ways they don't want to change or straight up can't is a horrible idea
So me and my girlfriend got in a fight for valentines day. In truth me and her daughter had words and that lead to the problems.
Her daughter is almost 17 and has recently dropped out of high school. She needed her parents permission to do so and she got it by refusing to go to school. She was locked up in kid's jail three or four times for attendance problems in the last year and a half. Each time her mother had to miss work (as a school teacher) to go to court.
The court costs and probation fees only added to money problems we are all having. Her mother already needs to work two jobs 6-7 days a week to make ends meet. I live in my own house and we could all live together (to save money) except for the bullshit caused by this problem child. She sleeps all day while everyone else is at work or school and then keeps her mother and sisters awake all night when she gets bored and wants attention.
She has a ten year old sister that she sets a terrible example for and the littlest girl has gotten more and more disobedient in the last two years. Now she is trying to get her sisters to skip school and stay home with her because she is lonely.
In my opinion the biggest reason there is so much strife and so little discipline is because this teen has been diagnosed with aspergers. She is very intelligent, aggressive, and manipulative. She doesn't seem to have the ability to feel shame, remorse, or guilt. Her mother can't seem to enforce discipline because she thinks her daughter has had so much taken away by her condition that she can't bear to take away anything else or put any punishments into place.
Her mother is trained to work and has worked with children with emotional and mental disturbances. She has done a great job with her other children and works so hard for her family. I really try to follow her lead but I can't turn a blind eye to everything like she does.
I come from a family with a history of physical and mental abuse. When I see this spoiled brat mistreating her mom and sisters I lose control sometimes and the shouting and name calling starts. I confront her with the harm she does and unfortunately engage in name calling but it doesn't go any further than that. This however pisses her mom off at me to no end.
I take as much as I can and then when I can't take any more I end up with a mean spirited teenager and her mom pissed off at me. I am a long ways from perfect but considering the things this brat has done and said to me and the people I care a great deal for, then I think I have shown remarkable restraint on hundreds (thousands?) of occasions. I also care for her and the harm she is doing to herself but no one believes me when I talk about this. Me and this kid have a strong personality conflict but it hasn't made me an irrational monster or anything even close.
This teenager has family histories of mental problems and addiction in both her mother's and father's families. The is also a good number of very bright and successful people from both families. I think I see signs of sadistic behavior and some sociopathic behaviors. Whenever I bring this up my girlfriend she just ignores my concerns and is pretty mean to me until I shut up about it.
I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone but I am worried that things will eventually lead to someone being seriously hurt. She already abuses her mother and sisters incredibly and she does a pretty good job on me when I don't fight back.
I'm pretty much an insect to her and I'm sure she'd destroy me in a second if she had a simple way to do it and could get away with it. As it is she only makes threats of violence and has not engaged in overt violence. She has accused me of some horrible things though and thankfully she is a terrible liar or someone might have taken her seriously. She can't stand to touch other people or have them touch her so I guess I'm pretty safe but I worry about her and others.
I worry that some day she will feel the kind of rage she has for me towards someone who can't defend themselves. I worry that she hates herself as much or more than she hates me or some other people and that she might hurt herself.
A lot of the "discussion" between me and her mother last night involved me saying she needed professional (and maybe full time) help and that her mother needed to understand that things were headed for a bad place otherwise. All I succeeded in was pissing off her mother again.
Her father is no help. He is a full on psycho and shouldn't even be around his own children. The kid doesn't blow him any shit because he has pinned her against a wall and choked her out when she has in the past. His abusive behavior certainly doesn't help but the real problem from him is probably more nature than nurture. They both have the same abusive and manipulative behaviors and personalities.
So to sum it all up. The kid has serious problems and causes more problems. The mother and father don't seem to be helping. The rest of the adults in her life have pretty much washed their hands of the whole situation and most of that is because the mother is far to defensive when people want to help. I care and worry about all the harm that can come out of such a fucked up situation but I can't even bring up the subject without my girlfriend freezing me out and acting like I'm a monster or something.
I'm an adult and I can handle lots of abuse from a shit head teenager but I can't handle all of it. When it gets to be too much and I can't stay silent any more I get the cold shoulder and guilt trips and the rest on top of the shame I feel for losing my temper with a "child".
I wanted to vent a little but also to ask for any advice or help that you all might be able to give me. My main problem is that I can't stand to see people I care about abused even (and especially) when the abuser is someone I care about and want to protect.
I think you and your folks are good people. It would be so easy to ignore things until your bro ended up in jail but you all seem to want better for him and that is a pure expression of love. This is a big problem and it may get worse but having a good family and good hearts will protect you and yours from many other calamities. Being good people you won't have to travel some of the rough roads other people do.
I don't know how to give advice on you decision. I think sometimes things need to reach a breaking point before a really tough choice can be made. I like to think about some problems and how they are like frogs who will hop out of hot water when thrown in but that will let themselves cook if the water starts lukewarm and is then heated to boiling. If all the bad stuff happened in one day or one week then your choice would be easier but since it happens spread out over years you get used to it. People adapt to bad situations and they just keep suffering until things get so far beyond bad that there is no other way to cope.
I don't think their is any shame in acting before things get to the critical stage but some people can't make the call until the pain drives them to it. I'm sure some of it involves the feelings of guilt and that people need to feel like they had no other choice.
You can see from my post above that I have a girlfriend who can't throw anybody overboard even to save everyone else in the lifeboat. Her oldest child has convinced her middle girl that she is ugly and makes her feel guilty about being liked by everyone. The middle child is the sweetest nicest person you'd ever want to know but I worry that her sister's abuse is giving her an image complex.
Her sister's autism and antisocial behavior has made it nearly impossible for the mother or kids to have friends over to the house. They all have their relationships damaged by their autistic relative's antisocial attitude. They have trouble getting the friends that could help them endure their difficulties and then feel guilty for having friends when their sister/daughter has none.
From reading your posts and from my own experiences I'd just like to tell you to look out for yourself and the rest of your family as much as you look out for your brother. I'm sure you all suffer more than you realize. You should look for a support group for yourself and you mother. It can help to know other people who have to deal with these problems too. It can help you to be there for someone else who has the same problems. It is not easy to open your heart to more of this sort of suffering but it helps to know that you are not alone and that people would want to help you if they could.
Your brother's story may end as sadly as it has been going so far and I'm sure this will devastate your family even more. You need to be strong for yourself and your parents/siblings. Whatever happens they will suffer alongside of your brother and the sadness I'm sure you feel at not being able to help him may be mitigated somewhat by the actual good you can do for them and others.
I would agree with you, probably the reason her mum took it so hard and didn't like to hear it was because she doesn't want to feel like she can't handle her own kid and that she needs others to step in.
You are right Liiya and I think my girlfriend knows this deep done inside but she is not ready to admit it. Nothing really terrible has happened so she just retreats to denial. I think if she is forced to come around because of some tragic happening that she will do the right thing but she can't make the leap until she has to do it. I want to avoid the worst that can happen but I don't know how.
My girlfriend and her middle daughter show some masochistic tendencies (or at least extreme passivity in the face of abuse) and my girlfriend's oldest daughter and ex-husband are both clearly aggressive, abusive, and probably sadistic/sociopathic.
I have a friend who worked at a state mental hospital. After a patient brutally murdered another patient in a bathroom he told me how the worst kinds of abuse can happen when a passive person and an overly aggressive person spend time near one another. People that don't fight back or defend themselves just bring out the worst even in mild bullies. That conversation with him comes back to me often when I see my girlfriend and her daughter in conflict.
Called the owner, owner says it is an "outside cat". Had no clue that it was a she, kept calling it a "he". Wanted the animal back.
We gave it back, because we legally had to. But goddammit we didn't want to. If we see the cat again, we're keeping it.
XBL: Torn Hoodie
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