As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[WoW] What Are All These Buttons, Paladin Thread?

1444547495052

Posts

  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Erandus wrote: »
    Wouldn't solve the issue where you can self heal as a tank well enough to solo heroic bosses though.
    JP is serious business, I guess?

    Salvation122 on
  • ToddJewellToddJewell Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So I decided to try healing in instances -- so one night last week I healed regular [wait for it] throne of tides. I t was a guild group and we planned on doing halls of origination but another guild member who was 82 wanted to tag along so the random set us up with TotT. Me being 85 and the tank being a raid tank ... he wound up taking off half his gear to try to 'help' me get used to healing. I was constantly full mana so it was pretty much a waste. Next day he tells me to come heal him and his normal healer got on her mage and we pulled another couple dps from guild chat. Idea was to do heroic halls [there are a bunch of plate heal drops and he is trying to get me geared better] but they decide to /random. Lost City comes up and I have run it as prot [on normal] and as dps on my hunter [both] a few times so I at least have an idea about where the pain happens.

    The tank is too used to his pet healer who is a priest in i350 gear so he occasionally has the rogue sap but for the most part the whole run is done without CC. I was constantly struggling with mana [dps was doing 10k, 5k, 6k, and 6k from tank]. The first boss I have some tunnel vision and think I am far enough away from a bomb but obviously am not so I get bounced around but no one dies so it's good so far. Get to Lockmaw and I go oom near the end but manage to get a few key heals off and no one dies ... augh goes down without any problems mana-wise and drops a ring for me.

    Get to the Lost Prophet, holy mana problems, using every cooldown [probably in the wrong situations] and manage to keep everyone alive... except the rogue who died after the boss went down because I had zero mana and nothing to judge to get more mana back. First death of the run and it happened after the boss died [and it was a rogue] so I gave my apology, res'd him and ate some cookies. Having done the last boss a few times on my hunter I realize what a shit storm it can be -- well we go through it and while I was oom [yet again], we still win with no one dying. I realize I was using divine light too much but it seemed to be required. For my second instance healing and first heroic,I thought I did pretty good.

    I am very hesitant to do a dungeon finder because I think I might have just gotten really lucky and considering how frequently I ran out of mana -- I don't want to deal with people bitching. I am going to get the shield crafted for me tonight hopefully which will get rid of my last green piece [I had 3 green pieces for the heroic lost city... 308 weapon, 312 shield, and I think my helm?]. I am at 339 now and with the shield it will probably go up a couple points. I have 4 pvp pieces [shoulders, wrist, relic, spirit trinket] that sort of inflate my iLevel.

    Any tips / suggestions? Difficulty listing for heroic healing by dungeon? I am trying to think of my runs as a hunter -- Stonecore/Blackrock seemed painful but were really dependant on the tank rather than healer? Lost City seemed healer intense from the hunter PoV and was for me, but how much of that was just my "rookie" point of view? I want to improve my gear so I can help some of our DPS get into queues faster -- so I know HoO has a lot of pieces as does SFK. Any advice would be appreciated!

    ToddJewell on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If this is about a heroic:
    ToddJewel wrote:
    for the most part the whole run is done without CC. I was constantly struggling with mana [dps was doing 10k, 5k, 6k, and 6k from tank].

    ... then your problems are easily explained: those are pretty low DPS numbers, and going without CC moved a lot of the pain to the healer.

    I ran Heroic LC last night (Ret Pally) without any CC, and I was the bottom of the heap for DPS numbers at 10k average (much higher against bosses, and not in last place there, either).

    Elvenshae on
  • ToddJewellToddJewell Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    yes it was heroic -- the tank is used to rolling through [352 iLevel] without needing cc anymore [when I dps with him on my hunter I usually throw an unmarked trap pre-pull just because]. The rogue was sapping if he got into place fast enough but the mage and lock didn't ever use anything. I don't think there is anything the warlock could cc in there though but the mage could definitely have sheeped one mob on every pull =)

    Our guild, for the most part, seems to suffer on the DPS side of things. Very rarely have I grouped with anyone besides me pulling 10k+ [when on my hunter] in a guild group, except for our asian raid team... they are great. Which goes along with them having killed 5 raid bosses compared to the magmaw kill for the NA team. It is a casual guild that also raids -- so most people are spec'd / enchanted poorly.

    ToddJewell on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    If your DPS were averaging more like 10k like they should have been, you probably wouldn't have been going OOM on the boss fights (where it sounded like you felt your healing was being the most taxed). It sounds like you were doing a good job for your gear level (PvP gear kind of gimps your regen).

    forty on
  • ToddJewellToddJewell Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    did heroic halls of origination last night on the dungeon finder. It went pretty good, I had one guy die twice. The melee shaman took aggro early on a pull and got obliterated before I could even try to heal him. The other time was on the elemental pull before Rajh, both of them split at the same time and I just couldn't heal him fast enough. Other than that it seemed to go pretty good, we got the Rajh achievement and almost got the speed run achievement, probably 5-10 seconds off that. We finished it with time left but since the timer really waits for the door to open, we didn't get it.

    I managed to pick up the sword off Rajh and the ring off Ammunae.

    I have a few rings now and curious what you all think the best are in heroics [please also list best overall avail in case I stumble upon some others]:
    Band of Life Energy
    Diamant's Ring of Temperance
    Veneficial Band

    I think I will try to queue for Heroic Shadowfang since it has a few drops that would be upgrades to me. Any tips for this one? I ran it once on my hunter but that was the only time I have run it.

    ToddJewell on
  • mattclemmattclem Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ToddJewell wrote: »
    I think I will try to queue for Heroic Shadowfang since it has a few drops that would be upgrades to me. Any tips for this one? I ran it once on my hunter but that was the only time I have run it.

    The third boss - Commander Springvale - is pretty brutal if your group DPS isn't up to scratch, there's some reasonably tight nuke targets which you need to meet consistently. Or have they nerfed him a bit recently? I've not been there a while, but did notice that when I went in with a newly-heroic-geared group we really struggled on him, but have had little issue more recently with better gear.

    If you're healing, then it helps to understand that if the adds aren't controlled or dying, you're going to find it difficult to keep people alive, and it's (probably!) not your fault.

    mattclem on
  • mattclemmattclem Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Grand Crusader will now generate a charge of Holy Power if the Avenger Shield it procs is used within 6 seconds.

    I like.

    mattclem on
  • tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I guess I like that. Not sure WHY we're getting it, I'm never starved for HoPo.

    tehmarken on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    tehmarken wrote: »
    I guess I like that. Not sure WHY we're getting it, I'm never starved for HoPo.

    Probably because a missed CS / HotR no longer generates HP, so this is a way to increase HP generation without forcing Prot pallies to focus on hit / expertise.

    Elvenshae on
  • tehmarkentehmarken BrooklynRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Did that get hotfixed in, or is that coming with the patch? Cuz if it's already in, I'm still doing fine on HoPo generation.

    tehmarken on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    tehmarken wrote: »
    Did that get hotfixed in, or is that coming with the patch? Cuz if it's already in, I'm still doing fine on HoPo generation.

    It's already in. The Avenger's Shield thing is 4.1.

    Generally, it won't matter that much, but I believe the issue is that a missed HoPo opportunity in the beginning of a fight can cause initial threat issues.

    Elvenshae on
  • mattclemmattclem Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    tehmarken wrote: »
    Did that get hotfixed in, or is that coming with the patch? Cuz if it's already in, I'm still doing fine on HoPo generation.

    Are you talking 5-man content or raids? In 5-man content the required hit/expertise is much lower so you're not going to be seeing significantly different rates of HP generation since 4.0.6. Raid bosses are a fair bit nastier in that respect.

    If I'm going full survival (Seal of Insight in place of truth), I see significant reduction in my HP gain rate on raid bosses. And, of course, that's the sort of environment where you *want* to be in full survival.

    mattclem on
  • mattclemmattclem Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Generally, it won't matter that much, but I believe the issue is that a missed HoPo opportunity in the beginning of a fight can cause initial threat issues.
    Of course, if you miss a HP opportunity at the start of the fight, you're not going to get the *chance* of Grand Crusader proccing in the first place; you're still going to have a few unpleasant seconds. However, you can 'catch up' faster afterwards thanks to this.

    mattclem on
  • ToddJewellToddJewell Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I did Heroic Shadowfang Keep yesterday -- holy crap was it healing intensive. The tank always seemed to be borderline dead on trash packs, not sure what his gear was at [druid] or if he was using cooldowns at all?

    I had one guy die on the second boss, we wiped on the third and then skipped him [no cc], had two dps die on the fourth boss [ran oom from trying to keep people up], ran oom on the final boss but managed to keep everyone alive while using everything I could think of [although I used guardian too late, I didn't have enough mana to get more than one divine light heal out of it]. I just was always cleansing people everytime their bar turned blue... I imagine I did it unnecessarily a lot of the time?

    For a fully random group I guess we did fine? I am afraid to heal it again based on how I seemed to struggle, but I need two drops from the last boss [could use the cloak from springvale but we got creamed on that fight so I am fine with skipping it].

    ToddJewell on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mattclem wrote: »
    Grand Crusader will now generate a charge of Holy Power if the Avenger Shield it procs is used within 6 seconds.

    I like.
    Do raid tanks even take Grand Crusader anymore? I was under the impression that it was not really worth the points now. Obviously it's a decent leveling talent and would be useful for prot PvP (for those who bother doing it), but I think the points are better spent elsewhere if you're tanking raids.

    forty on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ToddJewell wrote: »
    I did Heroic Shadowfang Keep yesterday -- holy crap was it healing intensive. The tank always seemed to be borderline dead on trash packs, not sure what his gear was at [druid] or if he was using cooldowns at all?

    I had one guy die on the second boss, we wiped on the third and then skipped him [no cc], had two dps die on the fourth boss [ran oom from trying to keep people up], ran oom on the final boss but managed to keep everyone alive while using everything I could think of [although I used guardian too late, I didn't have enough mana to get more than one divine light heal out of it]. I just was always cleansing people everytime their bar turned blue... I imagine I did it unnecessarily a lot of the time?

    For a fully random group I guess we did fine? I am afraid to heal it again based on how I seemed to struggle, but I need two drops from the last boss [could use the cloak from springvale but we got creamed on that fight so I am fine with skipping it].
    You weren't using cleanse on the last boss, were you? I think his only (significant) debuff is a curse, which you can't do anything about.

    forty on
  • ToddJewellToddJewell Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Anything that turned my healbot bar blue I was trying to cleanse =)

    ToddJewell on
  • sassfactor4sassfactor4 Brooklyn, NYRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    As an about 50% heroically geared Ret paladin I find myself at the bottom or 3rd in most 5 mans DPS wise. I think maybe im not prioritizing inquisition enough, or perhaps there is something dreadfully wrong in my rotation? Or are rogues and mages always going to trounce me in recount? (i have an avalanched reforged foe reaper so its not like a clearly undergeared issue imo)

    sassfactor4 on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Use CLCRet to help you prioritize correctly.

    PierceNeck on
    steam_sig.png
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Are you talking about overall or boss damage? Ret has a bit more ramp up than a lot of specs (mages and rogues anyway) and doesn't get any incidental AoE like fire/combat rogues, so trash DPS is going to lower you on the overall. How are you performing on bosses? Ret is actually damn good for a melee spec on bosses now, so you should be fairly competitive there.

    forty on
  • sassfactor4sassfactor4 Brooklyn, NYRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hmm perhaps then its just not really an issue. On bosses I get over 10k without an issue, but on trash its awful like 6k, so i guess there isn't a problem?

    I didn't know about CLCRet, thanks!

    sassfactor4 on
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hmm perhaps then its just not really an issue. On bosses I get over 10k without an issue, but on trash its awful like 6k, so i guess there isn't a problem?

    I didn't know about CLCRet, thanks!

    Your Gear is just about where it needs to be too. On mine I didn't favor Mastery all that much myself but I did find that CLCRet was immensely helpful.

    higher mastery Gear list here

    For trash/ae pulls, are you using Seal of Righteous+Hammer of Righteous, or sticking with Seal of Truth?
    Other than that, I'm not really sure what you'll be able to see in terms of AE/Trash DPS increases, since we do get a slower ramp up time.

    mturalon on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mturalon wrote: »
    Hmm perhaps then its just not really an issue. On bosses I get over 10k without an issue, but on trash its awful like 6k, so i guess there isn't a problem?

    I didn't know about CLCRet, thanks!

    Your Gear is just about where it needs to be too. On mine I didn't favor Mastery all that much myself but I did find that CLCRet was immensely helpful.

    higher mastery Gear list here

    For trash/ae pulls, are you using Seal of Righteous+Hammer of Righteous, or sticking with Seal of Truth?
    Other than that, I'm not really sure what you'll be able to see in terms of AE/Trash DPS increases, since we do get a slower ramp up time.
    I don't think he'll be using Hammer of Righteous as ret.

    forty on
  • sassfactor4sassfactor4 Brooklyn, NYRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah im not really pulling much of anything in 5 mans ret speced.

    I have seal of truth up 100% of the time, and devotion aura, unless there are 2 paladins then i also get retribution aura.

    for AoE I judgement something, consecrate, holy wrath, then spam divine storm with judgement as filler until i get 3 holy power and then templar my target. I imagine it might be better to not do the divine storms on groups of <5 and just keep going single target, while popping consecrate and holy wrath when possible.

    sassfactor4 on
  • AphostileAphostile San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    There is pretty much never a reason to use divine storm or even do AoE as a ret paladin right now.

    Maybe if you're going for BRC's kill 60 acolytes cheevo or something...

    Aphostile on
    Nothing. Matters.
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hrm, not sure how I feel about the Grand Crusader change. On one hand, the talent did kinda need something to make it more attractive.

    On the other, I don't know what I'd give up to take it. I'm thinking Pursuit of Justice (just swap to the stam + run speed enchant) but i'm going to wait until the PTR is closer to finished to make a final decision.

    Nobody on
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    forty wrote: »
    mturalon wrote: »
    Hmm perhaps then its just not really an issue. On bosses I get over 10k without an issue, but on trash its awful like 6k, so i guess there isn't a problem?

    I didn't know about CLCRet, thanks!

    Your Gear is just about where it needs to be too. On mine I didn't favor Mastery all that much myself but I did find that CLCRet was immensely helpful.

    higher mastery Gear list here

    For trash/ae pulls, are you using Seal of Righteous+Hammer of Righteous, or sticking with Seal of Truth?
    Other than that, I'm not really sure what you'll be able to see in terms of AE/Trash DPS increases, since we do get a slower ramp up time.
    I don't think he'll be using Hammer of Righteous as ret.

    /facepalm

    yeah I mean just seal. stuck in tank mode apparently.

    mturalon on
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    Hrm, not sure how I feel about the Grand Crusader change. On one hand, the talent did kinda need something to make it more attractive.

    On the other, I don't know what I'd give up to take it. I'm thinking Pursuit of Justice (just swap to the stam + run speed enchant) but i'm going to wait until the PTR is closer to finished to make a final decision.

    what did you opt into of now instead of GC? I haven't checked tank stuff since they dropped the WoG announcement, but I currently run with GC in tank

    mturalon on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    Hrm, not sure how I feel about the Grand Crusader change. On one hand, the talent did kinda need something to make it more attractive.

    On the other, I don't know what I'd give up to take it. I'm thinking Pursuit of Justice (just swap to the stam + run speed enchant) but i'm going to wait until the PTR is closer to finished to make a final decision.
    I'd say just pass on it unless it really gets buffed. The talent doesn't really fill any weakness in prot paladin play in raids (I suppose it would be a little nice for something like add tanking on Maloriak, but meh), and screw giving up 15% move speed for it.

    forty on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mturalon wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    Hrm, not sure how I feel about the Grand Crusader change. On one hand, the talent did kinda need something to make it more attractive.

    On the other, I don't know what I'd give up to take it. I'm thinking Pursuit of Justice (just swap to the stam + run speed enchant) but i'm going to wait until the PTR is closer to finished to make a final decision.

    what did you opt into of now instead of GC? I haven't checked tank stuff since they dropped the WoG announcement, but I currently run with GC in tank

    Here's my current build

    Nobody on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Pretty sure GC is more threat than Rule of Law.

    Salvation122 on
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Most likely, RoL is there as much for the threat as it is for the boost to WoG.

    Which, come to think of it, isn't going to be as valuable in 4.0.1 anyway.

    Nobody on
  • iguanacusiguanacus Desert PlanetRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Did you skip Uldum Sass? There was a pretty nice trinket as a quest reward for completing most of the Harrison Jones Quests Harrison's Insignia of Panache

    iguanacus on
  • sassfactor4sassfactor4 Brooklyn, NYRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Using inquisition liberally made a huge difference in my dps, (file under duh). I was topping the charts or just under ridiculousmages and it felt good man.

    sassfactor4 on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I speced out of holy this weekend. It's not for me.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I just recently pulled 13k average on bosses in HSFK the other night. At first I thought it was because the bosses were undead (go go Exorcism autocrit!), but the last boss counts as humanoid and I was pulled 13k on him, too. I didn't check the damage log for Springvale but I'm certain I didn't do 13k there (too much movement and target switching). I'm not exactly sure where or when my damage boosted so much, I think I had a long period where I was tanking but got a bunch of gear upgrades for my Ret set. It was awesome and I felt like such a bad ass. I mean, my trash DPS is still only barely respectable, but I mess bosses up like nobody's business. I still need to get better at remembering to keep Inquisition up, sometimes I just get in the groove of attacking that it just completely slips my mind.

    Also, I really like spreading out Avenging Wrath and Zealotry. When I first started looking at Ret I was like "Hey, I can pop them both and just do massive damage for X seconds!". Then I stopped and looked at it and realized that if I used them at the same time, I'd pretty much just be using CS and TV, which would mean I wasn't using HoW on CD during that time. So now, I use them individually and I think it works out for higher sustained DPS overall.

    Zomro on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Zomro wrote: »
    Also, I really like spreading out Avenging Wrath and Zealotry. When I first started looking at Ret I was like "Hey, I can pop them both and just do massive damage for X seconds!". Then I stopped and looked at it and realized that if I used them at the same time, I'd pretty much just be using CS and TV, which would mean I wasn't using HoW on CD during that time. So now, I use them individually and I think it works out for higher sustained DPS overall.

    On most heroic bosses I tend to start out with Avenging Wrath, but only after I have my 3HP inquisition going. Then I lay on the damage. Once that's all done with, then I go into Zealotry. Most heroic boss fights take a little over 3 minutes in PuGs, so I get to use AW again! :D

    Beyond Normal on
    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: Phender01
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Zomro wrote: »
    Also, I really like spreading out Avenging Wrath and Zealotry. When I first started looking at Ret I was like "Hey, I can pop them both and just do massive damage for X seconds!". Then I stopped and looked at it and realized that if I used them at the same time, I'd pretty much just be using CS and TV, which would mean I wasn't using HoW on CD during that time. So now, I use them individually and I think it works out for higher sustained DPS overall.

    Why on earth would you not use HoW on CD? Does CS or TV now do more damage than HoW?

    And last I read on EJ, they said to pop that king thing that spawns a little man to help kill stuff. Because he gives you a stacking strength buff, then when the buff hits 10, pop AW and Zealotry to maximize dps.

    PierceNeck on
    steam_sig.png
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    Zomro wrote: »
    Also, I really like spreading out Avenging Wrath and Zealotry. When I first started looking at Ret I was like "Hey, I can pop them both and just do massive damage for X seconds!". Then I stopped and looked at it and realized that if I used them at the same time, I'd pretty much just be using CS and TV, which would mean I wasn't using HoW on CD during that time. So now, I use them individually and I think it works out for higher sustained DPS overall.

    Why on earth would you not use HoW on CD? Does CS or TV now do more damage than HoW?

    And last I read on EJ, they said to pop that king thing that spawns a little man to help kill stuff. Because he gives you a stacking strength buff, then when the buff hits 10, pop AW and Zealotry to maximize dps.

    If I was using AW and Zealotry at the same time, I'd want to maximize the use of both. You'd want to use CS as often as possible to get 3 HoPo and then you need to spend it before using it again. When you're using AW, with the talent, you can use HoW even if the target isn't in "execute" range. If I'm spamming CS -> TV all the time, when do I fit in HoW? That's just my personal preference as to why I "stagger" Zealotry and Avenging Wrath. Are there other things I can do to max DPS? Probably. Am I going to bother learning them? Maybe. I'm not raiding, and 13k DPS on a Heroic boss is well ahead of what's needed. Maybe if I do some raiding I'll do some digging and see what I can do, but if I'm going to raid I'd rather tank, as I like tanking more anyway.

    Zomro on
This discussion has been closed.