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[WoW] What Are All These Buttons, Paladin Thread?

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Posts

  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I wasn't saying you have to play the way EJ says you should. Just that that's currently the best dps.

    PierceNeck on
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  • sassfactor4sassfactor4 Brooklyn, NYRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    yeah i've found starting with guardian, getting to max stacks, then hitting Avenging wrath (with inquisition up), once avenging wrath ends, pop zealotry. Keeps me well into the 12k range on bosses, sometimes 14.

    getting out of the ret spec mindset is really hard when heroic tanking for me. i always want to be smashing face and concentrating on one dude.

    sassfactor4 on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I stagger AW and Zealotry, too (and, in fact, I'm a bad pally because I don't use Zealotry as often as I should; I pop AW first, and then, if we need it, I'll do Zealotry).

    Timing your Guardian explosion to happen while AW is up is a good move, too.

    Elvenshae on
  • Beyond NormalBeyond Normal Lord Phender Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    yeah i've found starting with guardian, getting to max stacks, then hitting Avenging wrath (with inquisition up), once avenging wrath ends, pop zealotry. Keeps me well into the 12k range on bosses, sometimes 14.

    getting out of the ret spec mindset is really hard when heroic tanking for me. i always want to be smashing face and concentrating on one dude.

    I have found this is a good way to do things. Sometimes I forget Zealotry and still maintain 12-14k >.>

    Beyond Normal on
    Battle.net: Phender#1108 -- Steam: Phender -- PS4: Phender12 -- Origin: Phender01
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Zomro wrote: »
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    Zomro wrote: »
    Also, I really like spreading out Avenging Wrath and Zealotry. When I first started looking at Ret I was like "Hey, I can pop them both and just do massive damage for X seconds!". Then I stopped and looked at it and realized that if I used them at the same time, I'd pretty much just be using CS and TV, which would mean I wasn't using HoW on CD during that time. So now, I use them individually and I think it works out for higher sustained DPS overall.

    Why on earth would you not use HoW on CD? Does CS or TV now do more damage than HoW?

    And last I read on EJ, they said to pop that king thing that spawns a little man to help kill stuff. Because he gives you a stacking strength buff, then when the buff hits 10, pop AW and Zealotry to maximize dps.

    If I was using AW and Zealotry at the same time, I'd want to maximize the use of both. You'd want to use CS as often as possible to get 3 HoPo and then you need to spend it before using it again. When you're using AW, with the talent, you can use HoW even if the target isn't in "execute" range. If I'm spamming CS -> TV all the time, when do I fit in HoW? That's just my personal preference as to why I "stagger" Zealotry and Avenging Wrath. Are there other things I can do to max DPS? Probably. Am I going to bother learning them? Maybe. I'm not raiding, and 13k DPS on a Heroic boss is well ahead of what's needed. Maybe if I do some raiding I'll do some digging and see what I can do, but if I'm going to raid I'd rather tank, as I like tanking more anyway.

    You use HoW as a filler. CS -> 3 HoPo TV -> HoW -> repeat. If you get procs, use those as you can as well.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    PierceNeck wrote: »
    I wasn't saying you have to play the way EJ says you should. Just that that's currently the best dps.

    No problem, I wasn't intending to appear defensive. Sorry if it came off that way. I was just explaining my own rationale for doing it a certain way.

    Zomro on
  • DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    So the healer left group on the first boss in heroic lost city of tolvir. And I managed to stay alive with cooldowns for over a minute while the queue got us a new healer and he zoned in. Then we killed it.

    I fucking love paladins.

    Demiurge on
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  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Too bad about the WoG change that looks imminent, gonna put an end to that. It's pretty crazy the way you can chain 3 or 4 WoGs in a row sometimes now.

    I totally suck at anything that's not tanking, apparently. How does one dps effectively? I failed at being a healer despite all 346+ gear. Whats the dps philosophy? Inquisition up at all times? Which abilities get used on cooldown? When I solo I take truckloads of damage. When grouping, what abilities should I prioritize? What should I save for bosses?

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Erandus wrote: »
    Too bad about the WoG change that looks imminent, gonna put an end to that. It's pretty crazy the way you can chain 3 or 4 WoGs in a row sometimes now.

    I totally suck at anything that's not tanking, apparently. How does one dps effectively? I failed at being a healer despite all 346+ gear. Whats the dps philosophy? Inquisition up at all times? Which abilities get used on cooldown? When I solo I take truckloads of damage. When grouping, what abilities should I prioritize? What should I save for bosses?

    Ret dps is something like Inquisition > TV > CS > Exo/HoW > Judge > HW > Cons. Use your cooldowns when you can, but it's "recommended" you use AW and Zealotry at the same time. Use your discretion, though :)

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Why is the CS cooldown so much longer as ret? I'm used to the tanking rotation's 3 sec cooldown where I just space in a single ability between CS/HotR. My ret CS is over 4 seconds and I'm stumped on an efficient basic rotation to build HoPo before I trip Inq.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It's supposed to be.

    I should've explained a bit better, sorry. The idea is you use CS -> 2 filler -> CS. Ret is based on a priority system like I mentioned above. Depending on what abilities are on cooldown, you default to the next in the priority. If you have 3 HoPo, hit Inquisition if you have less than 10 secs or so left, otherwise hit TV.

    Edit: If you want, there's an addon that helps you manage your abilities called CLCRet. Gets you used to the priority system.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Okay, as a 15k-on-bosses DPS Retadin with the "wrong" spec* ...
    1. Inquisition up as close to 100% of the time as possible. Every fight should start with saving up 3 HP and spending them on Inq; if you're lucky, your first attack will give you Divine Purpose, which just speeds up the process.
    2. Time Avenging Wrath such that it's up when your Guardian of Ancient Kings ends.
    3. I do not put AW and Zealotry at the same time; in fact, I don't use Zealotry nearly as often as I could. I tend to save it for "Oh Shit!" moments, because it turns me into a Word of Glory machine** or a Templar's Verdict machine, and generally I find that I don't really *need* it.
    4. CS's cooldown is longer as Ret, but you should be getting 9% haste from Judgements of the Pure on top of your normal haste rating to knock the cooldown down by a lot. I've found that the Hurricane enchant helps a lot, as well, and I tend to prioritize Haste over Crit for this reason.
    5. Save Guardian for bosses. If you need to pop it on a trash pull, you're doing something wrong.
    6. Make sure you've got Holy Wrath glyphed. The AoE stun is good times, and it'll affect a large percentage of Cata mobs. Use Holy Wrath whenever it's off cooldown, except see Coke's priority list. it's damage usually sucks, but it's cheap and the damage is, IMO, secondary to the stun ability.
    7. Repentence is often forgotten by the tank; remind him. I mark circle for Repentence, because I don't think it's used by any other class.
    8. Keep Rebuke handy; I glyphed it so that I never have a reason to not use it other than it being on cooldown.
    9. Get the CLCRet add-on. It puts a little icon up next to you that says, "Use this ability next, and this one after that." It's great, but in some fights, I ignore the priority it defaults to (e.g., in a trash-pack elemental pull, I'll move Holy Wrath up to get more effective stuns in).
    10. Avenging Wrath has a really short cooldown with talents. If you aren't fighting the trash pack right before a boss, go ahead and use it (but watch your threat meter!).
    11. Seal of Truth erryday. Righteousness is terrible now, and the main drawback of SoTruth - the long ramp up time when you're swiging a slow two-hander - has been completely mitigated by recent patches (e.g., attacks, Judgements, Exorcisms, etc., all add a stack).
    12. When soloing, you will take a *lot* more damage than when in Prot mode. It's almost insane what the difference is. Don't be afraid to hard-cast a Holy Light or two while fighting multiple mobs. Your relatively large amount of haste plus Crusade's +300% bonus makes it a pretty sweet heal, and Crusade refreshes every time a badguy dies, but it only empowers one heal. So, to get the most use out of it, kill a guy, Holy Light, kill a guy, Holy Light, etc. Or, be like me, and talent Eternal Glory - every now and then, you'll get like 3 in a row, and go from dead to full pretty easily.
    13. During boss fights who have periods of intense area damage - like Anraphet's Omega Stance in HoO - pop Divine Protection or Divine Shield. Basically, if it's a time when, if you were Prot, you'd be popping Divine Guardian, go for it. It'll help out your healer a lot.
    14. Oh - forgot. Hammer of Justice is your second interrupt. A 10s cooldown on Rebuke isn't enough to shut down most casting mobs, and relying on other people to interrupt is chancy at best.

    Um, yeah. Those are my thoughts.

    * Yeah, I'm probably the only Retadin in existence who gave Long Arm of the Law and Blazing Light a pass for Selfless Healer and Eternal Glory.
    ** Fuck, fuck, fuck, *fuck*, FUCK that change. And PvP causing it.

    Elvenshae on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    That was highly useful info, thanks both of you. I'm doing some of that stuff already, I have holy wrath glyphed and my spec is right on most of the dps guides available and I know righteousness is rubbish. I didn't spec into selfless/eternal in anticipation of the WoG change. The info on skill prioritization is a huge help. I basically couldn't tell what was supposed to be an "oh shit" button and what was supposed to just be a standard skill in my rotation.

    I think I've been in the tank mindset too long where it's a true rotation with situational panic buttons. Ret seems to be adaptive based on cooldowns and proceed effects. Will take some practice I guess. I think I'm gonna keep soloing in protect though. At least til I farm more ret gear. I'm still wearing half my prot gear as ret cause I've never bothered to collect ret stuff.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mrsinistermrsinister Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Don't take the Ret theorycrafting as gospel. I'm pretty sure they are using modeling instead of simulations so its very hard to know if you should be using Avenging Wrath and Zealotry together.

    I personally separate them because I try to tie my Zealotry with heroism when I can do CS->TV->repeat. After that I just pop cooldowns as soon as they are up.

    mrsinister on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well even what they're telling me is better than the random and reactionary spasaming I had been doing.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Erandus wrote: »
    Well even what they're telling me is better than the random and reactionary spasaming I had been doing.

    I think he meant the "Elitist Jerks Says This So You Must Do This Or Be Dumb" strict rotation with AW and Zealotry together, rather than the more general advice given here. :)

    Elvenshae on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ah, righto then. I'll snag the CLCRet addon and experiment a bit.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Erandus wrote: »
    Well even what they're telling me is better than the random and reactionary spasaming I had been doing.

    I think he meant the "Elitist Jerks Says This So You Must Do This Or Be Dumb" strict rotation with AW and Zealotry together, rather than the more general advice given here. :)
    Use your cooldowns when you can, but it's "recommended" you use AW and Zealotry at the same time. Use your discretion, though :)

    Uh... no, I didn't.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Sorry, your post fails to make sense to me. It doesn't scan. What didn't you do?

    Did you read mrsinister's post?

    Elvenshae on
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I may have misread your post, in which case my apologies.
    I think he meant the "Elitist Jerks Says This So You Must Do This Or Be Dumb" strict rotation with AW and Zealotry together, rather than the more general advice given here.

    It sounded like you were talking about my earlier post about AW + Zealotry to be used at the same time, which I pointed out was "recommended" but to be used at your own discretion.

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    I may have misread your post, in which case my apologies.
    I think he meant the "Elitist Jerks Says This So You Must Do This Or Be Dumb" strict rotation with AW and Zealotry together, rather than the more general advice given here.

    It sounded like you were talking about my earlier post about AW + Zealotry to be used at the same time, which I pointed out was "recommended" but to be used at your own discretion.

    Oh, no - not at all!

    In fact, your point was what I was supporting - that although current theorycrafting on EJ says to always combine the two abilities for MAX DEEPS*, the more general advice here (e.g., me and you and mrsinister) is much closer to "Do it if you want." :)

    MrS was pointing out, I think, that the current state of play on EJ is based more on mathematical models rather than in-game experience, and so while in theory it may increase your DPS, in practice it may not make as big a difference (due to lag; user error; inability to perfectly juggle CS, HotRm and TV; etc.).

    But when MrS said, "Don't take the Ret theorycrafting as gospel," Erandus thought he was referring to our advice, rather than the EJ state-of-play.

    So I clarified.

    I hope.

    At least, that's how I read everything.

    * Not to be confused with "MOAR DOTS!"

    Elvenshae on
  • CokebotleCokebotle 穴掘りの 電車内Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Gotcha. No worries then! :)

    Cokebotle on
    工事中
  • NamonNamon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Is there a way (either by default UI or mods) that I can get a reminder that screams at me "Hey dumbass, hit righteous fury!!" after I die? My one weakness in MMO's has always been buffs, so of course I always forget to apply that after dying.

    Namon on
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I know Pally Power will show your Righteous Fury. It doesn't scream or anything. Although I don't use it anymore since they changed the way blessings work.

    PierceNeck on
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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    You won't have to worry about it in 4.1, they are finally fixing it to persist through death.

    Nobody on
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Namon wrote: »
    Is there a way (either by default UI or mods) that I can get a reminder that screams at me "Hey dumbass, hit righteous fury!!" after I die? My one weakness in MMO's has always been buffs, so of course I always forget to apply that after dying.

    Two ways:

    1. I use Healbot for all my healing needs, so I just added Righteous Fury to my list of buffs to track when in Prot mode, along with things like Blessing of Kings, Seal of Truth, etc.

    2. In 4.1, Righteous Fury will not get canceled by death.

    Elvenshae on
  • NamonNamon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Nobody wrote: »
    You won't have to worry about it in 4.1, they are finally fixing it to persist through death.

    That makes me very happy thanks! I HATED that and have been embarrassed quite a few times =P

    Namon on
  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Cokebotle wrote: »
    I may have misread your post, in which case my apologies.
    I think he meant the "Elitist Jerks Says This So You Must Do This Or Be Dumb" strict rotation with AW and Zealotry together, rather than the more general advice given here.

    It sounded like you were talking about my earlier post about AW + Zealotry to be used at the same time, which I pointed out was "recommended" but to be used at your own discretion.

    Oh, no - not at all!

    In fact, your point was what I was supporting - that although current theorycrafting on EJ says to always combine the two abilities for MAX DEEPS*, the more general advice here (e.g., me and you and mrsinister) is much closer to "Do it if you want." :)

    MrS was pointing out, I think, that the current state of play on EJ is based more on mathematical models rather than in-game experience, and so while in theory it may increase your DPS, in practice it may not make as big a difference (due to lag; user error; inability to perfectly juggle CS, HotRm and TV; etc.).

    But when MrS said, "Don't take the Ret theorycrafting as gospel," Erandus thought he was referring to our advice, rather than the EJ state-of-play.

    So I clarified.

    I hope.

    At least, that's how I read everything.

    * Not to be confused with "MOAR DOTS!"

    I dunno, I usually use Zealotry separately because otherwise if I use them both at the same time the need for using Hammer of Wrath means I lose potential Verdicts to the global cooldown aether.

    It's possible using Zealotry then is still improved DPS, but it bugs the hell out of me and I feel like I'm wasting half of its potential.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Namon wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    You won't have to worry about it in 4.1, they are finally fixing it to persist through death.

    That makes me very happy thanks! I HATED that and have been embarrassed quite a few times =P

    There's usually a big "Hey Dummy turn RF back on" thing that screams at you. Its when the first DPS pulls aggro and or dies.

    Then you can yell at them for not watching their aggro while calmly hitting refresh RF ;-)

    mturalon on
  • Basren DragonsnackBasren Dragonsnack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    When Omen yells at me for being high on agro...
    That's when I realize I didn't put RF on...

    Basren Dragonsnack on
    PSN: Scotty85
  • PierceNeckPierceNeck Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I dps with RF on just because.

    PierceNeck on
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  • NamonNamon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mturalon wrote: »
    Namon wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    You won't have to worry about it in 4.1, they are finally fixing it to persist through death.

    That makes me very happy thanks! I HATED that and have been embarrassed quite a few times =P

    There's usually a big "Hey Dummy turn RF back on" thing that screams at you. Its when the first DPS pulls aggro and or dies.

    Then you can yell at them for not watching their aggro while calmly hitting refresh RF ;-)

    Except they all see the spell effect... or wait does it have one?

    Namon on
  • AphostileAphostile San Francisco, CARegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Namon wrote: »
    Except they all see the spell effect... or wait does it have one?

    It does! However you could just claim you were refreshing your seal or something...

    Aphostile on
    Nothing. Matters.
  • mturalonmturalon Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    plus if you do it super sneaky and right in the middle of combat who's going to notice:winky:

    mturalon on
  • mrsinistermrsinister Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Namon wrote: »
    Is there a way (either by default UI or mods) that I can get a reminder that screams at me "Hey dumbass, hit righteous fury!!" after I die? My one weakness in MMO's has always been buffs, so of course I always forget to apply that after dying.

    I have an add-on that puts a really ugly icon in the middle of my screen whenever I'm missing a seal, a blessing, an aura, or righteous fury. The addon is smart enough to know to ignore righteous fury in dps spec (but not smart enough to know the difference between my own blessings/aura and another palis, so I still have to remember those in raids). Also tells me when I don't have mount aura while mounted and vice versa.

    I believe it is Aptus Aura Frames but I will double check when I'm not at work.

    mrsinister on
  • ErandusErandus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I use ZOMGBuffs. It auto casts seals, righteous fury, crusader aura when I mount, returns to my previous aura when I unmount. If you run out, it will remind you you need it, and it will cast the next time you scroll your mousewheel.

    Erandus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pollofacepolloface Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Just noticed eye for an eye reflected all the charges on my last nefarion kill, its only just over 1% but its better then the alternatives :P

    polloface on
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Hey, so, I don't think I'm really understanding pally healing. Supposedly Holy Light is the main spell to cast, but at 8K or so a heal, it seems woefully underpowered. I get 30K off Divine Light and sometimes even that's not enough to really keep up with the burst damage tanks take. I feel especially useless in raids because at 81K I go out of mana all the time. Every time I try to google pally healing or whatever all I get are pages written about pally healing in the Cata beta, which I'm not sure is still relevant. Any help?

    Nova_C on
  • MonstyMonsty Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'll give it a crack since I'm just killing time right now--though I must admit I've only done battlegrounds so my idea of efficiency could be skewed.

    That little baby Holy Light is your spammer
    Keep Holy Shock on cooldown
    Try to also keep Judgement on cooldown(with Seal of Insight up) for mana, but heal first if absolutely necessary
    Word of Glory or Light of Dawn(AoE) with 3 Holy Power(don't Holy Shock at 3 Holy Power)
    I suppose Holy Radiance if AoE damage is getting too crazy(and maybe pop Guardian of Ancient Kings) - but watch that mana
    Clarity of Purpose procs are amazing on Divine Light, but could tax mana so burn it on Holy Light if you don't need the fat heal
    Beacon on... the tank? Makes the most sense to me
    Flash of Light to mop up unexpected massive damage, cooldowns if needed(Avenging Wrath, Divine Favor, Guardian, etc.)
    Hand of Sacrifice before expected massive damage

    Uhhh... can't think what else right now. As I said I've only ever done BGs so this may all be bunk. Not to mention I've never really read up on optimal strategy. Just trying to give you any helpful ideas you may need!

    Monsty on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Nova_C wrote: »
    Hey, so, I don't think I'm really understanding pally healing. Supposedly Holy Light is the main spell to cast, but at 8K or so a heal, it seems woefully underpowered. I get 30K off Divine Light and sometimes even that's not enough to really keep up with the burst damage tanks take. I feel especially useless in raids because at 81K I go out of mana all the time. Every time I try to google pally healing or whatever all I get are pages written about pally healing in the Cata beta, which I'm not sure is still relevant. Any help?

    1): Stack moar int. Stack zero mastery.
    2): Holy Shock on cooldown.
    3): If you have any damage on you at all, it is more beneficial to WoG with whatever HP charges you have. WoG and LoD throughput does not scale with Holy Power. A single 3HP WoG will heal precisely as much as three 1HP WoGs. Protector of the Innocent procs off every single heal, and it transfers through Beacon, so on fights with a lot of raidwide damage, it's much better to use multiple small heals than single big ones.

    4): Divine Lights are your main tank heal. Holy Light to top him off, or during periods when he's not taking huge damage. Remember, though, that this isn't Wrath - overheal matters.

    5): If you're getting strapped for mana, remember that you can pop Divine Plea, or ask for Innervate or Mana Spring. If you're a Blood Elf, you should be using Arcane Torrent on cooldown. You can also warn your tanks to use cooldowns, or use cheaper, lower throughput heals in concert with on-use trinkets, Avenging Wrath, or Guardian of Ancient Kings. In extreme cases, you can run up and smack the boss and pray for SoI procs. Also remember that - as much as possible - you should be judging every cooldown, which should return quite a bit of mana over the course of the encounter.

    6): If you are assigned to tank heal, heal the tank. Don't heal the raid except for maybe a quick Shock, WoG, or LoD if someone's getting dangerously low, or a Radiance if there's a lot of raidwide damage going on. Trust the other healers to do their jobs. If the other healers are not doing their jobs, yell at them. I've found this is the number one problem healers going OOM face.

    Edit: Quick correction, Judging doesn't provide mana in Holy spec - it heals you (and therefore your beaconed target.) Should still be done on cooldown to keep the haste buff up and improve Beacon throughput.

    Salvation122 on
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