SC2: Post in the new thread!

MNC Dover · April 2011

(Artwork provided by forum member Wakkawa. Visit his site and buy some amazing work at inexpensive prices. Commissions available!)

The Starcraft II discussion thread
(Channel PA on NA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu0rHPviPXY

Patch 1.3.3 PTR notes:

Balance

PROTOSS

Archons are now a massive unit.

Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.

Cybernetics Core

Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.

Gateway

Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.

Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.

Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.

Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.

TERRAN

Ghost

Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.

Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.

ZERG

Spore Crawler

Root time decreased from 12 to 6.

Bug Fixes

Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.

Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.

The SC2 thread proudly presents!

1. The Weekly Forum Challenge

(Organizer: MNC Dover)

-What the hell is the Weekly Forum Challenge (WFC)?

The WFC is a new idea I came up with that will pit one forum member against everyone else in the forum. Basically, you apply to be in the WFC and when your name is called, you take on everyone else in the forum.

-Huh? Why would I want to do that?

Because it's fun, keeps the forum more interactive, and allows you to improve your game by playing a lot of different playstyles.

-OK, who do I play against?

Everyone. It doesn't matter if your Bronze or Master, these games are no ranks barred. Yeah, if you're a Bronze level player you'll probably get splattered, but you will be learning something and have a set of replays from which to study. You could use this opportunity to practice a single build and see how it fares against several other types of builds. Either way, it will be a good learning experience and fun!

-Sounds interesting....what are the rules?

If your name is called, you will take all invites from Sunday to Saturday that week. Opponents can challenge you via forum posts, PM's, or on B.Net. You must try your best to take on every challenge, so be prepared to spend a few hours on b.net during your week.

-I'm only a Bronze leaguer. I'll get squashed so I don't want to enter.

Hold on there a minute, I'm not done yet. Any WFC entrant can request a live-coach regardless of their rank. Yes, any rank. The coach may only give advice during play in ally chat to you and you cannot ask questions. The coach also cannot tell you what the enemy is doing or steer your build to screw over the enemy. Only tips like, watching your supply counts, build more structures, drone up, scout, expo, spend money, etc. The coach can be anyone the WFC wants and can change from game to game. You can talk with your coach before and after games to discuss strats, build orders, and the like.

-Awesome! I think I want to participate. How do I enter?

PM a message to me with "WFC" as the title and the following information:

-Forum name
-B.Net ID with 3 digit code
-Race played (please only use one to reduce headaches)
-Rank
-Do you want a coach?
-Timezone (easy conversions for us lazy Americans please)
-At least three different weeks you want to apply for with your most favorable choice first (example: 03/20-03/26, 03/27- 04/05, and 04/13-04/19)
-Your choice of how you want to play matches, either bo1 or bo3

-Great, I sent out the information and got accepted. Now what?

Now you have to openly accept challenges from the forum. Post the time or times you will make yourself available for matches. Other people can set-up appointments for matches or play however you choose. If you only want to accept appointments great, if not, you can do a first come, first pwned set-up.

-What maps do we play on?

For bo1's, the WFC player gets to choose the map. Sorry folks, that's the advantage of manning up and taking on all comers. For bo3's, the first game is on Shakura's Plateau with the loser choosing the next map from the official Blizzard Ladder pool. Yes this means the maps may change over time. We'll manage.

-What happens when my week is over?

You gather up all your replays, name them "WFC vs (insert enemy name), add them to gamereplays.org (info found in the OP), and then post EVERY SINGLE GAME into a single spoilered post. The thread creator will add your games into the OP and they'll stay there until the next person's turn is over.

-When does all this begin?

How does this Sunday sound? I'm taking applications now!

-I had an emergency mid-week! What do I do?

No biggie, we all understand that real life stuff happens. Let everyone know and I'll do my best to find someone to fill in the spot. No problem at all.

-Anything else?

Glad you asked. I really think this can be fun, especially if we have some of our more charismatic people bring some light-hearted, jaw-jacking to the table. I'd also really like it if some of the lower ranked players step up and give this a go. In reality, it's no different then playing against PA people anyway, but now it will have more of a focus. You can have a target on your back which might change the way you play by adding or removing pressure.

ABOVE ALL, I just want everyone to have fun and play more SC2.

So, who's in?

Our seventh WFC player will be TannerMS! Here's his info:

Forum name: TannerMS
B.Net ID with 3 digit code: TannerNS.727
Race played: Zerg
Rank: Master
Do you want a coach?: If someone wants to sit there and be all like Tanner make drones you twat, I'd appreciate it
Timezone: Didn't specify, but on quite often.
bo3 format

Challenge our player by sending him a PM, post, or b.net message to set up times!

Here are the replays of the WFC prior:

2. PA showmatch series #2 & #3

(Organizer: Enigma435)

Admiral Adama wrote:

When you step on this deck, you be ready to fight, or you dishonor the reason why we're here. Now remember this: When you fight a man, he's not your friend.

Watch PAers engage in friendly (most of the time) combat for your entertainment!

3. Replay(s) of the day! (4/26)

(Organizer: whoever created this thread)

A random replay of the play donated by our forum-goers. Make sure to upload your replay submissions to submit your replay using gamereplays.org. And be a pal and mark your replay as ROTD material in your post so they're easier to find.

Start here to better craft some stars.

The SC2 thread goes a million miles per hour and will leave you in the dust if you aren't prepared. All things are open to discussion here from build orders, practice partners, race match-ups, tournament talk, and general bizarre Korean stuff (usually brought to you by the letter S and the number 86). In order to keep up, I highly recommend you check out the following resources:

General
- Team Liquid. Team Liquid is the biggest Starcraft related fan site out on the Internet today. They follow everything Starcraft related including the pro scene. Many great articles, forums, and information can be found here. A must bookmark for any Starcraft fan.
- Wellplayed.org. Starcraft 2 aggregation site from the SCReddit group.
Talk shows
- State of the Game podcast. The pillars of the starcraft 2 community --- JP, EGIncontrol, Liquid`Tyler, and Day[9] --- talk (mostly) about current events in the starcraft community every Tuesday.
Educational
- Help guides for new players painstakingly created by fellow forum goers. Please read these first before asking questions.
- The Day[9] Daily Live Stream. Sean "Day9" Plott is an 11 year Starcraft veteran, so he knows his shit. He does a live stream Sunday through Thursday that airs 7pm PST/10pm EST. If you miss a stream, you can watch it, and every other streams he's ever done, in his archives. BOOKMARK HIS SITES! You will not be disappointed.
- Starcraft II Liquipedia. Team Liquid has created a wikipedia site for everything SC2 related. This will be updated as time goes on and all information found here should be legit as possible.
- Learn from the Pros with Mr. B Mr. Bitter aka Flabulous gets lessons from pros about how to play Starcraft and streams the whole thing for our learnings. He started with 12 weeks of zerg goodness and is now moving onto terran and protoss.
- Common timings and when they hit. Exactly what it sounds like.
- CecilSunkure's guide to improving efficiently at 1v1. A very good read if you find yourself in a rut with your improvement in 1v1 or if you don't know where to begin improving your game.

OK that's all cool, but I want to play with some PA people.

1) Log into Battle.net and join channel PA (on the NA realm). We all hang out there. Chat, 1v1 lobbies, and team shenanigans are always going on!

2) Sign up for a replay site such as gamereplays.org or drop.sc. This is a site where you can upload your replays. The perfect way to share your replays with the thread and get advice on how to get better. Gamereplays lets you post the cool banner that you frequently see on the internets and drop.sc lets you upload replays without having to create a new account.

3) Register with the PA SC2 1v1 Ranking site. Sign up for this awesome site to see where you stand amongst fellow PA members. Remember, this is important in the nurturing and expanding of your e-peen. Add yourself by clicking on [Manage Characters] on the top right side.

JK. I like watching Starcraft instead. Where can I watch some good games?

Major tournaments. Starcraft is e-sports. Follow these major tournaments and you will not be disappoint.

The GSL. The premiere korean starcraft 2 league. Where the best go to play. Casted by Tastetosis, the casting archon.
The TSL. Team Liquid's major tournament where foreigners stomp koreans and everyone attributes it to lag.
Major League Gaming. North American e-sports powerhouse now features Starcraft 2 (as long as their stream is online). "tahts halo dont worry".
North American Star League. The upstart league headed by fan-favorites Incontrol and Gretorp. $400k up for grabs in the first season alone.
IGN Pro League. Everyone's getting into e-sports, even IGN! 16 of the top players from North America duking it out for fabulous prizes.

And those are only the major ones! Follow the Team Liquid Tournament Tracker for more competitive goodness.

Streams. Perhaps you prefer something more intimate. Maybe watching starcraft 2 like it's Being John Malkovich? Thanks to the power of the Internet, there are infinity streams available for your voyeuristic pleasure. Here are our favorites.

General commentary
- Seguer. Aussie protoss currently casting the Taiwan Clan League with the lovely KellyMilkies.
- The Day[9] Daily Live Stream.
- HD Starcraft.
- HuskyStarcraft.
- TotalBiscuit.
Terran
- Liquid`TLO
- Trump
- Hashe
- ROOTDrewbie
- Liquid`Jinro
Protoss
- Lemming
- Hill (Zombie Monkey)
- EGIncontrol
- Grubby
- Liquid`Tyler
- Liquid`HuK
Zerg
- EGIdra
- ROOTDestiny
- MrBitter
- Spanishiwa
- Sheth

Want more streams? Check out Teamliquid's live video stream page for more goodness.

Fizban140 · April 2011

OP still needs link to wakas art, like all of the SC2 stuff.

Saaruto · April 2011

RotD submission from the previous thread, because I know how much everyone loves PvPs (no matter how good this one is):

His Corkiness · April 2011

지지지지 베비베비베비 지지지지 베비베비베비

MNC Dover · April 2011

Oh, one last thing concerning the patch notes:

It's just PTR, not official already-in-the-game changes.

Edit: You're replay is the RotD and Wakka's site is linked under his art.

PantsB · April 2011

MNC Dover wrote: »

Oh, one last thing concerning the patch notes:

It's just PTR, not official already-in-the-game changes.

Edit: You're replay is the RotD and Wakka's site is linked under his art.

But no one plays in the PTR and they pretty much always just take the PTR notes and use them for the actual patch.

Fizban140 · April 2011

I meant just all the SC2 stuff, because I like to show it off to friends because its awesome.

TannerMS · April 2011

PantsB wrote: »

MNC Dover wrote: »

Oh, one last thing concerning the patch notes:

It's just PTR, not official already-in-the-game changes.

Edit: You're replay is the RotD and Wakka's site is linked under his art.

But no one plays in the PTR and they pretty much always just take the PTR notes and use them for the actual patch.

Um, they've pretty much never ended up with the exact same notes as the PTR. You need to relax

wakkawa wrote: »

I can imagine taking out the fun stuff. Cus the shit that was announced before the game was fucking awesome but broken as hell. Ghosts spawning marines, the mothership, reapers, and pretty much everything else.

I want all those things back in

You forgot CLIFF WALKING THORS

xta · April 2011

PantsB wrote: »

MNC Dover wrote: »

Oh, one last thing concerning the patch notes:

It's just PTR, not official already-in-the-game changes.

Edit: You're replay is the RotD and Wakka's site is linked under his art.

But no one plays in the PTR and they pretty much always just take the PTR notes and use them for the actual patch.

1.3.3 = Protoss patch

=/

Lemming · April 2011

PantsB wrote: »

Enigma435 wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Everyone used to say ZvZ was broken and that fixed itself without specific tinkering. If you add 40 seconds to warpgate every single opening a toss has needs to be reworked - not just 4 gate but 3 gate sentry expand, 3 gate pressure expand, 1 gate expand, forge fast expand - because the timings are all going to fundamentally different. Plus the difference between how warp gate and normal (say rax) buildings work mean you have to commit and show your hand much earlier in order to not be very vulnerable. In order to have enough units to survive any pressure you'll need to have multiple gateways producing before warpgate is done so you'll immediately reveal your build.

Last patch notes dated April 4 Let it breathe, damn. And "Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds" - apparently warp gate tech needs a bigger nerf than stim not because of any balance reasons but just because its not "fun" enough

Article from this week

The lead designer, who previously worked on real-time strategy games in Electronic Arts' Command & Conquer series, said he had to make creative adjustments when he joined the StarCraft II team. For him, the main hurdle was learning how to take some of the "fun" stuff out of the game.

"It took me a year and a half to figure this out," said Browder, an enthusiastic designer who might also be around the top 10 percent in the world in terms of speed-talking.

I don't think the warp gate research thing should be too bad for P. They are decreasing build times out of gateways for everything and in the non mirrors of you feel like you are safe enough with the production you currently get with 3 gateways for say your 3 gate sentry expo then you should be able to produce a roughly similar number of units in the same time frame. The only big difference being the initial warp in batch right after warp gate research finishes will be somewhat later. I could be crazy but it seems this could in fact free up your chronoboost to get a few units out earlier or produce even more probes to transfer with the expo.

The decrease to unit build times doesn't help any standard P builds because you barely build out of gateways.

Say a 3 gate sentry expand. Right now you can do it because you can warp in a batch of 3 sentries once you go down the ramp so you can expand. Delaying warpgate tech 40 seconds delays all three of those sentries 40 seconds. With nearly every standard toss build you get 3 production cycles on your first gateway - meaning at the normal 3/4 gate timing you will have zero extra units with these changes.

Its a straight P nerf to fix the balance of a mirror matchup....

I believe you mean 20 seconds (hint hint chrono boost).

PantsB · April 2011

Lemming wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Enigma435 wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Everyone used to say ZvZ was broken and that fixed itself without specific tinkering. If you add 40 seconds to warpgate every single opening a toss has needs to be reworked - not just 4 gate but 3 gate sentry expand, 3 gate pressure expand, 1 gate expand, forge fast expand - because the timings are all going to fundamentally different. Plus the difference between how warp gate and normal (say rax) buildings work mean you have to commit and show your hand much earlier in order to not be very vulnerable. In order to have enough units to survive any pressure you'll need to have multiple gateways producing before warpgate is done so you'll immediately reveal your build.

Last patch notes dated April 4 Let it breathe, damn. And "Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds" - apparently warp gate tech needs a bigger nerf than stim not because of any balance reasons but just because its not "fun" enough

Article from this week

The lead designer, who previously worked on real-time strategy games in Electronic Arts' Command & Conquer series, said he had to make creative adjustments when he joined the StarCraft II team. For him, the main hurdle was learning how to take some of the "fun" stuff out of the game.

"It took me a year and a half to figure this out," said Browder, an enthusiastic designer who might also be around the top 10 percent in the world in terms of speed-talking.

I don't think the warp gate research thing should be too bad for P. They are decreasing build times out of gateways for everything and in the non mirrors of you feel like you are safe enough with the production you currently get with 3 gateways for say your 3 gate sentry expo then you should be able to produce a roughly similar number of units in the same time frame. The only big difference being the initial warp in batch right after warp gate research finishes will be somewhat later. I could be crazy but it seems this could in fact free up your chronoboost to get a few units out earlier or produce even more probes to transfer with the expo.

The decrease to unit build times doesn't help any standard P builds because you barely build out of gateways.

Say a 3 gate sentry expand. Right now you can do it because you can warp in a batch of 3 sentries once you go down the ramp so you can expand. Delaying warpgate tech 40 seconds delays all three of those sentries 40 seconds. With nearly every standard toss build you get 3 production cycles on your first gateway - meaning at the normal 3/4 gate timing you will have zero extra units with these changes.

Its a straight P nerf to fix the balance of a mirror matchup....

I believe you mean 20 seconds (hint hint chrono boost).

Chrono doesn't halve build time, and how are you going to have enough chrono saved up to keep wg tech chrono'd without screwing your economy?

TannerMS wrote: »

Um, they've pretty much never ended up with the exact same notes as the PTR. You need to relax

Pretty sure every PTR patch note that doesn't directly involve infestors has made it in from PTR 1.2.0 and 1.3.0

Maratastik · April 2011

PantsB wrote: »

Enigma435 wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Everyone used to say ZvZ was broken and that fixed itself without specific tinkering. If you add 40 seconds to warpgate every single opening a toss has needs to be reworked - not just 4 gate but 3 gate sentry expand, 3 gate pressure expand, 1 gate expand, forge fast expand - because the timings are all going to fundamentally different. Plus the difference between how warp gate and normal (say rax) buildings work mean you have to commit and show your hand much earlier in order to not be very vulnerable. In order to have enough units to survive any pressure you'll need to have multiple gateways producing before warpgate is done so you'll immediately reveal your build.

Last patch notes dated April 4 Let it breathe, damn. And "Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds" - apparently warp gate tech needs a bigger nerf than stim not because of any balance reasons but just because its not "fun" enough

Article from this week

The lead designer, who previously worked on real-time strategy games in Electronic Arts' Command & Conquer series, said he had to make creative adjustments when he joined the StarCraft II team. For him, the main hurdle was learning how to take some of the "fun" stuff out of the game.

"It took me a year and a half to figure this out," said Browder, an enthusiastic designer who might also be around the top 10 percent in the world in terms of speed-talking.

I don't think the warp gate research thing should be too bad for P. They are decreasing build times out of gateways for everything and in the non mirrors of you feel like you are safe enough with the production you currently get with 3 gateways for say your 3 gate sentry expo then you should be able to produce a roughly similar number of units in the same time frame. The only big difference being the initial warp in batch right after warp gate research finishes will be somewhat later. I could be crazy but it seems this could in fact free up your chronoboost to get a few units out earlier or produce even more probes to transfer with the expo.

The decrease to unit build times doesn't help any standard P builds because you barely build out of gateways.

Say a 3 gate sentry expand. Right now you can do it because you can warp in a batch of 3 sentries once you go down the ramp so you can expand. Delaying warpgate tech 40 seconds delays all three of those sentries 40 seconds. With nearly every standard toss build you get 3 production cycles on your first gateway - meaning at the normal 3/4 gate timing you will have zero extra units with these changes.

Its a straight P nerf to fix the balance of a mirror matchup....

Except it isn't really. That's why they buffed the build time on gateway units. So you have approximately the same amount of units out as when warpgate would normally complete. For instance: normally you get about three units out of a gateway before warpgate finishes. Then you morph the warpgate, which takes 10 sec and then warp in, which takes 5 sec before the unit finishes warp in.

With the new patch. Those three rounds of units come out 5 sec faster each. So you're 15 sec ahead by the time warpgate normally would finish. Then instead of the the 10 sec morph and 5 second warpin, your fourth units continues building for 15 more sec. So that's 30 sec. toward a fourth unit at the time when you would normally have the fourth unit warped in, which is almost equal to a full build cycle. And that doesn't take into account the seconds of downtime you normally have on a gateway when the third unit finishes, but warpgate research is almost done, so instead of starting another unit, you wait 5-10 sec for the research to finish. So really, it does not change how many units you would have out at that point.

So for your exact example (3 gate sentry expand), all three of those sentries come in AT WORST 2 sec later than they normally would (and that's only if you normally are able to match up the time you finish warp gate research to the time you finish your third unit exactly. And nobody has it that perfectly timed). Not 40 sec. It's not like you just stop using gateways while you wait the extra 40 sec.

EDIT: B/c gateway morph is actually 10 sec. So it's even better.

JAEF · April 2011

I like these patch notes. Should be interesting. Wonder how long this shit'll take to hit live.

ChaosHat · April 2011

Oh man, I am so high on adrenaline right now. After getting destroyed twice, then playing two more games that were almost/shoulda wons, I won my last placement match to go 1-4 and get into the silver league!

I am so freaking excited right now.

PantsB · April 2011

Olorin wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Enigma435 wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

Everyone used to say ZvZ was broken and that fixed itself without specific tinkering. If you add 40 seconds to warpgate every single opening a toss has needs to be reworked - not just 4 gate but 3 gate sentry expand, 3 gate pressure expand, 1 gate expand, forge fast expand - because the timings are all going to fundamentally different. Plus the difference between how warp gate and normal (say rax) buildings work mean you have to commit and show your hand much earlier in order to not be very vulnerable. In order to have enough units to survive any pressure you'll need to have multiple gateways producing before warpgate is done so you'll immediately reveal your build.

Last patch notes dated April 4 Let it breathe, damn. And "Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds" - apparently warp gate tech needs a bigger nerf than stim not because of any balance reasons but just because its not "fun" enough

Article from this week

The lead designer, who previously worked on real-time strategy games in Electronic Arts' Command & Conquer series, said he had to make creative adjustments when he joined the StarCraft II team. For him, the main hurdle was learning how to take some of the "fun" stuff out of the game.

"It took me a year and a half to figure this out," said Browder, an enthusiastic designer who might also be around the top 10 percent in the world in terms of speed-talking.

I don't think the warp gate research thing should be too bad for P. They are decreasing build times out of gateways for everything and in the non mirrors of you feel like you are safe enough with the production you currently get with 3 gateways for say your 3 gate sentry expo then you should be able to produce a roughly similar number of units in the same time frame. The only big difference being the initial warp in batch right after warp gate research finishes will be somewhat later. I could be crazy but it seems this could in fact free up your chronoboost to get a few units out earlier or produce even more probes to transfer with the expo.

The decrease to unit build times doesn't help any standard P builds because you barely build out of gateways.

Say a 3 gate sentry expand. Right now you can do it because you can warp in a batch of 3 sentries once you go down the ramp so you can expand. Delaying warpgate tech 40 seconds delays all three of those sentries 40 seconds. With nearly every standard toss build you get 3 production cycles on your first gateway - meaning at the normal 3/4 gate timing you will have zero extra units with these changes.

Its a straight P nerf to fix the balance of a mirror matchup....

Except it isn't really. That's why they buffed the build time on gateway units. So you have approximately the same amount of units out as when warpgate would normally complete. For instance: normally you get about three units out of a gateway before warpgate finishes. Then you morph the warpgate, which takes 5 sec and then warp in, which takes 5 sec before the unit finishes warp in.

With the new patch. Those three rounds of units come out 5 sec faster each. So you're 15 sec ahead by the time warpgate normally would finish. Then instead of the the 5 sec morph and 5 second warpin, your fourth units continues building for 10 more sec. So that's 25 sec. toward a fourth unit at the time when you would normally have the fourth unit warped in, which is almost equal to a full build cycle. And that doesn't take into account the seconds of downtime you normally have on a gateway when the third unit finishes, but warpgate research is almost done, so instead of starting another unit, you wait 5-10 sec for the research to finish. So really, it does not change how many units you would have out at that point.

o_O
So you're saying that the fourth unit is 10+ seconds behind, best case scenario. Except you're failing to take into account gateway build time. With a 4 gate you don't build out of gateways 2-4. With a 3 gate pressure expand you don't build out of gateways 2-3. With a FE 5 or 6 gate you generally don't build out of anything but the first gateway.

The whole idea behind the 4 gate/3gate pressure/3 gate expand/etc is you don't have to pay up front. You don't have the money to pay for gates 2-3/4 65+30-42 seconds before you need that first burst of warped in units. You can't afford to start production on 4 units 30 seconds before warpgate would normally start even if you didn't have to cut probes to get those gates up early enough to have them ready to build anything at that time.

Lemming · April 2011

Those builds were designed for old warpgate research time and old gateway unit production times. Builds will change to accommodate the new timings.

Variable · April 2011

rewatching team league finals because I see someone wrote about it on TL

waiting for gsl tonight

JAEF · April 2011

ChaosHat wrote: »

Oh man, I am so high on adrenaline right now. After getting destroyed twice, then playing two more games that were almost/shoulda wons, I won my last placement match to go 1-4 and get into the silver league!

I am so freaking excited right now.

Man SC2 is the druggiest of drugs. Feels good doesn't it?

Lemming wrote: »

Those builds were designed for old warpgate research time and old gateway unit production times. Builds will change to accommodate the new timings.

I have a sad feeling this will be ignored in favor of sensationalist bullshit posts. Oh well.

Kami · April 2011

JAEF wrote: »

Lemming wrote: »

Those builds were designed for old warpgate research time and old gateway unit production times. Builds will change to accommodate the new timings.

I have a sad feeling this will be ignored in favor of sensationalist bullshit posts. Oh well.

Yeah, the very nature of changing any type of game, especially RTS, is to change the options players are given

Not make them 'better' or 'worse', but 'different'. Depot before Rax and Reaper changes completely screwed up fundamental builds that some professionals had, and it was the day of a major tournament.

People will adapt with the changes, and it'll shift gameplay options and mental checklists of the playerbase, and that's about it.

Dhalphir · April 2011

I guess I will be able to ladder as Protoss again soon once these patch notes go through! Hurrah!

UrQuanLord88 · April 2011

GSL in 2 hrs! woot!

Dhalphir · April 2011

couldnt find patchnotes in OP so I crossposted them

Balance

PROTOSS

Archons are now a massive unit.

Pylon power radius has been decreased from 7.5 to 6.5.

Cybernetics Core

Research Warp Gate time increased from 140 to 180.

Gateway

Sentry train time decreased from 42 to 37.

Stalker train time decreased from 42 to 37.

Zealot train time decreased from 38 to 33.

Warp Gate unit train times remain unchanged.

TERRAN

Ghost

Cost changed from 150/150 to 200/100.

Salvage resource return reduced from 100% to 75%.

ZERG

Spore Crawler

Root time decreased from 12 to 6.

Bug Fixes

Fixed a bug where Ghosts could not quickly EMP the same location.

Fixed a bug where players were still able to stack flying units on top of each other.

I think my first plan of action with the new changes is to try out a 4gate expand build in PvZ and PvT that skips warpgate in favour of hallucinate for better scouting, to determine the need for a robo, with sentry/stalker in PvZ and zealot/sentry/stalker for PvT

JAEF · April 2011

Really happy with all of these changes. Hope they go through, for the most part.

Dhalphir · April 2011

Likewise. This will not only make 4gate in pvp physically less effective, but I guarantee you with all the hype around "4gate in pvp is DEEAAD" that will happen, people will just stop bothering with it completely.

JAEF · April 2011

Well archons becoming massive is also a HUGE deal for unit options in PvP. No longer will you be forced into heavy stalker or colossus supporting compositions to deal with base-busting through a SINGLE sentry holding a ramp.

Also I can finally get rid of my PvP flowchart.

Variable · April 2011

I LOVE the pylon radius change. that's great.

Zombie Monkey · April 2011

archons now break ff

HUGE

Aldarez · April 2011

zzz, zerg steals my gas then calls me a faggot for trying to 4gate him.

Why must arseholes insist on being arseholes.

stimtokolos · April 2011

Zombie Monkey wrote: »

archons now break ff

HUGE

Scrub.

It is cleary a corruptor/infestor combination zerg buff.
Now my corruptors do extra damage to your archons when I neural parasite your pheonixes and lift the.... oh.

Variable · April 2011

so archons can't be slowed too

boooooooo

(not saying it shouldn't be that way

)

Zombie Monkey · April 2011

also my hatch first harass with zealot stalker is now like 10x stronger, i can probably get 2 zealots instead of 1

and you fuckers thought 2 rax bunker was hard

mwahahahaha

imba imba man, im gonna be, an imba man

Dhalphir · April 2011

1gate FE is going to be quite powerful too.

peacekeeper · April 2011

no ff nerf no zerg buff ho hum!

finally a salvage nerf

still need to get rid of warp gates and mules and put goliaths back in!

stimtokolos · April 2011

If goliaths were in and I liked their model I'd probably be playing terran.

But I also say that about reavers and protoss, and if mutas were as awesome as SCBW zerg. So.

exoplasm · April 2011

So apparently the 1.3.3 changes aren't all on the PTR yet, as people are reporting that gateway times and ghost cost are unchanged, but pylon range was changed.

Also, how does one even access the PTR to check out upcoming changes?

tuxkamen · April 2011

Just played a TDA PvZ where we both FE'd. I had my wall set up (forge/gate/core/2 cannons/zealot), and he wanted to bust it. Tower Defense ensued.

Wave 1: 23 zerglings, 23 banelings.
Defenders: 1 zealot, 4 sentries.
Losses: Gate, 2 cannons, pylon, zealot.

Wave 2: 30 zerglings.
Defenders: 5 sentries, 4 stalkers, all lost (outside the wall). Wall rebuilt and zealots hold off the lings.

Wave 3: 35 zerglings, 18 banelings.
Defenders: 4 zealots, 4 sentries.
Losses: Forge/gate, all units, zealots clean up, but...

Wave 4: 19 zerglings.
Defenders: 5 hurt zealots.
Losses: Zealots go down, 5 lings hide in base to morph, but warpins clean them up. Wall is rebuilt.

Wave 5: 12 zerglings run through to attack probes. Zealots clean them up. Desperation sets in:

Wave 6: 23 banelings.
Defenders: 9 zealots, 5 sentries.
Losses: Only zealots and gateways. The wall is rebuilt thicker each time and colossi are now on the way.

Wave 7: 23 banelings, 11 zerglings.
Defenders: 2 zealots, 4 stalkers, 5 sentries, 1 colossus, no wall-off.
Losses: All but 1 sentry and colossus.

Wave 8: 18 zerglings run by (whoops, should have had a wall!) Zealots take care of them. Second colo and range are out. Note: At this point, the only other tech building he has is a roach warren.

Wave 9: 58 banelings.

No, that's not a typo.

Defenders: 3 colos, 1 sentry with 3 FFs, gateway units.
Losses: 2 gateways.

At this point, I get called names.

tuxkamen · April 2011

exoplasm wrote: »

So apparently the 1.3.3 changes aren't all on the PTR yet, as people are reporting that gateway times and ghost cost are unchanged, but pylon range was changed.

Also, how does one even access the PTR to check out upcoming changes?

Archons aren't massive _yet_, from my testing.

I tried to do some halluc-first play, and I wasn't liking it very much at all. In order to get a sentry out as your second unit with enough juice to hallucinate once research finishes, you have to drop your second gas at 17 or so. And that leaves you without an FF for a while. Definitely not recommended against Protoss when you could simply go gate-robo-gate and have an observer instead.

His Corkiness · April 2011

You don't have to research Hallucinate & cast it at the quickest possible time. You only need it early enough to spot whatever you're looking for as you transition.

Dhalphir · April 2011

tuxkamen wrote: »

exoplasm wrote: »

So apparently the 1.3.3 changes aren't all on the PTR yet, as people are reporting that gateway times and ghost cost are unchanged, but pylon range was changed.

Also, how does one even access the PTR to check out upcoming changes?

Archons aren't massive _yet_, from my testing.

I tried to do some halluc-first play, and I wasn't liking it very much at all. In order to get a sentry out as your second unit with enough juice to hallucinate once research finishes, you have to drop your second gas at 17 or so. And that leaves you without an FF for a while. Definitely not recommended against Protoss when you could simply go gate-robo-gate and have an observer instead.

so maybe delay researching anything out of the core at all for a while?

Seems like hallucinate first would be better in PvZ when you plan to play defensive.

Movitz · April 2011

exoplasm wrote: »

So apparently the 1.3.3 changes aren't all on the PTR yet, as people are reporting that gateway times and ghost cost are unchanged, but pylon range was changed.

Also, how does one even access the PTR to check out upcoming changes?

You have a separate *.exe in your SC2 folder for the PTR. But it's only available in the US

His Corkiness · April 2011

Yeah Tester's build is pretty great, assuming you don't just autolose to Banshees.

Penny Arcade

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