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[Discussion On] d20 Star Wars: Saga Edition
Super Namicchi
Orange County, CARegistered User regular
Orange County, CARegistered User regular
I figured the good gamers over at Penny Arcade who remember fondly and still play d6 Star Wars RPG or play the current d20 ruleset would be interested in this.
For d6 and d20 gamers alike, Wizards has finally decided to give some support to their Star Wars line for the first time in about 4 years with the completely new, streamlined, built-from-the-ground-up SW: Saga Edition RPG! I heartily recommend anyone who has any interest in Star Wars gaming (miniatures and RPG alike) head over here and give the previews a gander, and maybe show some support for the new line.
With that said, is there anyone at all interested besides me in this completely new, shiny, and most importantly, revamped, edition?
For d6 and d20 gamers alike, Wizards has finally decided to give some support to their Star Wars line for the first time in about 4 years with the completely new, streamlined, built-from-the-ground-up SW: Saga Edition RPG! I heartily recommend anyone who has any interest in Star Wars gaming (miniatures and RPG alike) head over here and give the previews a gander, and maybe show some support for the new line.
With that said, is there anyone at all interested besides me in this completely new, shiny, and most importantly, revamped, edition?
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Yeah, no kidding, though I gotta say the system itself has me pretty hyped too. I like their design philosophy of bringing all the heroes up to the level of Jedi instead of nerfing Jedi to the other heroes.
Because really, in editions past it really felt like "Jedi Wars: The Adventures of Jedi Knight Bob and his Muggle Friends". :P
I do like the changes I've heard about. Things like letting people apply their character combat skills to vehicle combat should bring a little more "flying by the seat of their pants" feel to things rather than getting too hung up on min/maxing your character.
Reading the previews on the Wizards of the Coast site.
I like the current d20 system, but it's too complicated, often contradictory, and requires far too many die rolls. Love the setting, love the possibilities, but there are a few too many rules and the GM has to keep opening the book every time I try to pull a stunt in my YT-2400 while firing at some pirates or whatever.
The new edition appears to be much more streamlined. Character creation and customization will be easier and more fun. Many skills have been consolidated into fewer, and "skill points" have basically been eliminated (sounds weird, but it's basically a variant from DnD's Unearthed Arcana, and is not a bad idea really). It incorporates a "talent" system in the vein of D20 Modern. Space combat more closely resembles regular combat. Things related to the Force seem way easier. Et cetera.
Go to wizards.com and look for the Star Wars Saga Edition Previews links. Hopefully they revamp the star wars portion of their site with the new edition too, because compared to the DnD section of the site, it's crap.
Also: no Dark Side points or the f'ed up rules that accompany them.
Hehe... "seat of the pants" is sort of the character concept for my scoundrel PC... never has a plan, makes everything up as he goes along (which frustrates the GM sometimes, who often says "where do you come up with this shit?").
Most of his skills/feats are designed to make his piloting checks as high as possible. He wants to look like he's one of those ass-kicking mercenaries or bounty hunters, so he carries a large collection of blaster weapons... even though he rarely hits anything with them. His combat skills are based on being quick on the draw if he can't bluff his way out of a duel. And if it wasn't for his lil' buddy, the Squib tech specialist (my friend's PC), he'd probably be screwed in most situations. In Star Wars... by the seat of your pants is the only way to fly.
I'm hoping that what I've read of the character customization thing in Saga Edition is going to help me get this guy more the way I want him.
Hell, I think the Ace Pilot PrC will help your concept immensely. I like it, by the by, it sounds like he'd be a lot of fun to play.
My group is looking at some sort of jedi-themed campaign. I like how this new edition doesn't penalize multiclassing at all, so I don't need to stick with a straight Jedi7/Prestige class build. I'm going to see how the Jedi/scoundrel build fares, or perhaps Jedi/scout. Damn, just so many possibilities we've never had.
And yeah, I totally agree about the current ruleset. I have the RCR, Hero's Guide, and the GCG and the system was fun but... so much referencing. Each Force Skill having its own set of DC tables and effect ranges, blech. This new edition has my group psyched beyond all doubt.
Heck, I think we're going out today to see if any of our local gaming haunts have the book early. (Several people on the WotC boards have been finding them early, so wish us luck
Yeah, I was a dipshit and ordered using Amazon's "Buy it now and we'll never send it to you ever technology". (Please, somebody find that comic for me.)
I'll look up that Ace Pilot PRC.
Oh, here was my Scoundrel's last encounter:
He's salvaged (okay... stolen) a ship and is hiding out in the Vergesso Asteroids. Buys some black market stuff from a Rodian "trader" who's out there and drops a few Huttese phrases. Rodian (Joozer) asks, "you looking for work?" And my Scoundrel (Ash) gives his usual: "I'm just a businessman like yourself, I'm always looking for work."
Joozer: "I'll give you 1750 credits to deliver a package to a guy named Syler on the other side of the field."
Ash: "Sounds pretty simple to me."
Joozer: "Yep, real simple."
Ash: "So why don't you just do it yourself?"
Joozer: "..."
Ash: "You fucked up, didn't you?"
Joozer: "Look, I just need to get this..."
Ash: "So what? You stole some shit from the Hutts and you want my prints on it?"
Joozer: "No, I --"
Ash: "Ripped off some Imperial Tech and want to get it out of your ship now?"
Joozer: "No, I just --"
Ash: "You working for the Republic or something?"
Joozer: "I FUCKED SYLER'S SISTER, OKAY?"
Ash: (calmly) "Hey, calm down buddy... glad to help a guy out. We all make mistakes. 1750 will be fine."
Joozer: (sighs) "Okay, meet me in the bar in an hour."
So, Ash goes to the bar and buys a lot of drinks for the one spacer there amongst the miners. He eventually finds out that Syler is a heavily armed pirate who has his base of operations in the belt, and that he's got a really bad spice habit that makes him tough to deal with. After the guy leaves, Joozer shows up, looking nervous. He gives me back some of the money I paid for a DL-44, apologizing for charging too much. I just mad-dog him right away.
Ash: "Seriously, what the fuck Joozer? You're sending me out to deliver some SPICE to a PIRATE?"
Joozer: "How did you know that?"
Ash: "I DIDN'T until you told me, Joozer... you're awful sloppy, Rodian. This suddenly ain't a simple courier job. No deal. I'm headed to Ryloth on the next convoy with some spacers I just met."
Joozer: "You agreed to--"
Ash: "I agreed to a 1750 credit job. This is more like a 20,000 credit job, what with you're smuggling over there. You've got to be making more that twice that off this job, especially since you got this from the Hutts."
Joozer: "..."
Ash: "You got yourself a bad face for Sabaac there, Joozer. Very sloppy."
Joozer: "Twenty thousand is too much."
Ash: "You've got no other options, buddy. You wanna march in there and apologize to him? I hear he gets really trigger-happy when his spice shipments are late."
Joozer: "Fifteen thousand."
Ash: "Half in advance."
Joozer: "WHAT?"
Ash: "As a show of trust and goodwill, of course."
Joozer: "How do I know you're not going to run off with it?"
Ash: "What, you think I'm dumb enough to try and fence some spice that got stolen from the Hutts?"
Joozer: "I can give you 4000 now and the rest after I'm paid for the job."
Ash: "Nice doing business with you. Have a drink on me. I'd better take this package and get the ship ready."
So, Ash heads out the the coordinates Joozer gave him... and before he gets there he's intercepted by two X-wings... heavily modified with armaments, it would seem. After explaining I have some important merchandise for Syler, they guide me into a heavily fortified base where I'm escorted into headquarters... though they let me wear my blaster pistol for some reason.
I sit down and prop my feet up on the table with the package (a briefcase) and wait a few minutes until Syler shows up. He's furiously smoking a cig, sweaty and figety with bloodshot eyes. He sits down, with a couple of mooks holding repeating blaster rifles on either side of him.
Ash: "Hey, you got another one of those cigarettes?
Syler: "No."
Ash: "Fine." *pulls a cigar out of his pocket and lights up*
Syler: "Who the fuck are you?"
Ash: "I'm just a courier. I have a delivery you've been waiting for."
Syler: "What?"
Ash: "Hey, I don't look at the goods, Syler. I got scruples. What's in here is yours and not mine."
Syler: "No, you're here early for the trade."
Ash: "Well, I usually like to be early."
Syler: "That noble from Ryloth won't be here for another two days to make the exchange."
Ash: (faking his ass off) "Syler. You worry too much my friend. That's why there's guys like me out here. I get you your goods, and then I take care of the rest. I'm headed to Ryloth and I'll be there in enough time to beat this noble over here... and you don't have to worry about those Twi'leks sniffing around your operation. You savvy?"
Syler: "... Okay, let's see it."
I slide the briefcase over to Syler. He opens it up and his eyes get really wide.
Syler: "Where the fuck did you get this?"
Ash: "Do you really want to know?"
Syler: "No... but this is worth fifty thousand credits to you?"
Ash: "I'm just the courier, remember Syler? My employer shall remain anonymous, and I don't give a fuck what it's worth. I'm just making the trade."
Syler: "This... man, this is good stuff..."
Ash: "I'm glad you're satisfied. Now, I expect you have something for me?"
Syler slides a datapad across the table to me.
Syler: "There it is. Heavily encrypted, so I can't figure why anyone would want it."
Ash: "Eh... those head-tails are supposed to have brains in 'em, but you'd never know."
Syler: "We're done here."
Syler starts to get up to leave.
Ash: "One last thing Syler... you seem like an stand-up kind of guy, and you've been such a generous host what with not shooting the messenger and all... and... well, I kinda feel compelled to tell you something."
Syler: "What?"
Ash: "Well, I had to make a stop on my way over here and I ran into someone who was being a real loudmouth at the bar and bragging about some really nasty things he claimed to have done to your sister..."
Syler: "Who the fuck was he?"
Ash: "Some Rodian... Jayzer... Jansor... Jallsor..."
Syler: "JOOZER?"
Ash: "That's him. And I know where he is. I'm not going to charge you for that information, either, as a show of gratitude. I'll even lead you to him, if you'll give me a fighter escort... but I want his ship."
Syler: "I'M GOING TO KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER!"
Ash: "We have a deal?"
Syler: "You can have the ship, but I take the cargo."
Ash: "Deal."
I lead Syler and his boys back toward Bashi Station in Vergesso, and they keep a safe distance from me. (Flying casual?) Anyway, I see that Joozer is still parked there, but the problem is since Syler and his boys are pirates, I have to get Joozer to take off so they can Shanghai him. I land at Bashi Station and go running straight for Joozer's ship, so that I'll be out of breath and sweating when I get there.
Ash: "Joozer! We're humped! Syler knew you were involved from the very beginning!"
Joozer: "What? Did you get the stuff?"
Ash: "I'm lucky I got out of there in one piece! He took the package and nearly killed me! We gotta get out of here, man... he's not far behind! Fuck!"
I go running back to my ship as fast as I can, and I hear Joozer's engines firing up behind me.... a few minutes later... Ash got himself a new ship, which sold pretty damn well. Next session I hope to get my 50 thousand credits on Ryloth for that datapad.
My poor GM. He wants me to be curious about what is on the pad, or what was in the briefcase, or what's the deal with the quirky malfunctioning astromech droid on my ship... but Ash seriously doesn't give a fuck.
I just got the new book over the weekend, and my only complaint is that its freaking square!?! I am a little upset that they are creating a new book format that doesnt match anything else...
So the rules are really cool. I am really happy with the force rules and the character creation. The starship combat looks good, but i am sure my group will tweak a few things.
Overall a great revamp, too bad I cant play with my group for another two weeks!!
So far it's me and a tech specialist. We're hoping to add a Noble and a force user of some kind to the party, but are having a tough time getting the interested players to the table.
Haha, even so, your dollars ensure that support for this new line comes forth from the dark depths of Wizards R&D.
And hey, who knows? We could get a Star Wars Game On going sometime in the future maybe?
1. You get a LOT of hit points at first level.
2. AC/Defense is gone, as are Saving Throws. They've both been rolled into new stats called Reflex Defense, Fortitude Defense, & Will Defense.
3. The Damage Threshold/Condition Track mechanic is pretty cool. If you get hurt too bad, you're going to suffer some penalties.
4. Second Wind mechanic allows any player to spend his round resting in combat to restore some hit points. This reduces the need to have healing "magic" on hand all of the time.
5. Everybody only gets one attack regardless of level unless you take specific feats that grant more.
6. You get a feat every even level and a Talent every odd level. Talents are more powerful than feats. They're similar to the special abilities D&D classes get.
7. Feat prerequisites are not as bad. For instance, you can get Attack on the Run (Renamed Spring Attack) at first level.
8. You get a "suite" of Force powers. You build your suite by selecting certain feats. You can use all of the powers in your suite once per combat, though you can take powers you really like multiple times. You can regain them by resting a moment. Think back to Episode 1. The scene when Qui Gon and Darth Maul were fighting. When the energy field separated them, Qui Gon to a few seconds to meditate. He was renewing his powers.
9. Force points are much cooler now. They have a lot of different uses and you can even spend them to enhance the effect of a force power.
10. None Jedi can use the Force by spending a few feats. They also get Force points. Jedi really only get a few special Force related abilities and get access to the Lightsaber Talents as well as some special Force Talents.
11. Imperial Star Destroyers are freakin terrifying. If you encounter one, run away...
12. Starship combat seems kinda neat. It loses some detail and complexity, but seems like it could be ran really fast.
13. Sever Limb is a Talent some of the Jedi/Sith can get that allows them to cut off arms and legs instead of dealing a killing blow. Pretty cool.
14. The races are better handled now, with special abilities that are cooler. Beware the Wookie's Rage.
15. You can play droids as characters. They even get Force Points which represent their place in the universe and the will of the Force, not their ability to use it. Droids obviously can't become Force sensitive.
16. All classes are balanced with the Jedi and even get improved damage with their weapons at the same rate a Jedi's damage output increases. This is done because there is a line drawn between heroic characters and non-heroic characters. For example, look at Jango Fet in Attack of the Clones. He wasn't a Jedi, but held his own against Obi Won. Characters like Jango, Boba, Han Solo, and Chewie shouldn't be overshadowed by the Jedi, and I can see where they are coming from there. On the other hand, Stormtrooper #2 isn't a heroic character, and will likely go down screaming pretty quick.
17. At 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, & 20th level. You get to add +1 to any two ability scores.
18. Force Crush is no longer a dark side power.
opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Can you elaborate on this a little bit for those of us who haven't recieved ours in the mail yet (i.e. me, as once again I have allowed myself to be suckered by Amazon)?
Your Defenses are based on a value (10 or 11? can't remember) + stat bonuses + class bonuses (they do not increase with level like in normal d20) + half your heroic levels.
Y'know.
That makes so much fucking sense it's ridiculous.
I really like that you don't have to be a Jedi to be good with the Force, and the other classes can do some really cool stuff.
And because the Force is largely feat dependent, multiclassing allows you to become more versatile without crippling your Force usage.
opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
- Robert A. Heinlein
We played some space combat (so simple and elegant it's crazy) and a little ground based combat mixed with vehicular combat.
Overall, this system gets a huge A+ from me. I even love the 9x9 format.
Meh. If I had to complain about something, that'd be it.
opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
- Robert A. Heinlein
I find that it's actually easier to read due to its easier to hold size. Not to mention it clutters the gametable less when we play.
But, I mean, it's not going to please everybody, and if that's the only complaint I'd say the designers did a pretty bang up job.
We should totally get a Game On.
:^::^:
Anybody stepping up to run it?
opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
- Robert A. Heinlein
Name the time and format, baby.
In most of the game I've played in, we just let the GM roll the dice and assume he's being fair.
opinion is wishful thinking at its worst.
- Robert A. Heinlein
BWAHAHAH-
Er. Ahem.
There's probably a dice rolling Java or Flash program somewhere out there on the nets. I'd trust that before I'd trust my own rolls (also I have a unique ability to roll fantastically bad every single time it matters).
Once we get that program found, I could make an OOC thread, I suppose, for people to post character sheets and what not.
Heck yes.
Also, lets the GM track rolls by name to ensure that someone isn't just rolling again and again until they succeed.
I don't even think I'd complain if D&D 4th used most of these changes. Seems like it offers a lot of options and flexibility in character creation while also streamlining both creation and gameplay. And that ain't bad.
I'd like to be counted in.
My Saga Edition book just arrived.
So much more compact than I thought it would be. Which... for something that gets lugged around to people's houses... just kinda makes sense.