[WoW]Druids: CLOSED SLIGHTLY EARLY

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I guess they decided that they don't like the gameplay of going lunar and then spamming sunfire/IS on everything. It would be nice if they could make oomkin AoE a little less clunky while they're at it, though.

    forty on
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  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    I guess they decided that they don't like the gameplay of going lunar and then spamming sunfire/IS on everything.

    Can't say I blame them.

    I usually heal but I went balance to kite a whale shark with my guild. 9k dps while swimming backwards was pretty ridiculous, especially considering my gear at the time.

    I imagine there's a better solution, but I don't play balance enough to think of one.

    Noggin on
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  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited May 2011
    It's a rather limited subset of moonkin DPS, Sunfire spam. Against one or two targets, it's weaker than stand-and-deliver. Against more than that, you'll want the bonus to Wild Mushroom, so moonkin probably will just change to mushroom mushroom mushroom hurricane so as to remain in Solar. All it's nerfing is the three- or four-target AoE, really, where we would actually keep up Insect Swarm/Sunfire constantly. I don't really get what they're aiming for, and it's just going to be a bother.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ArkasArkas Registered User
    edited May 2011
    And my guild just started heroic Maloriakk yesterday - how bittersweet.

    I know moonfire (sunfire) spamming is traditionally a pretty cheesy thing to do, but I always have a ridiculous amount of fun with it. I would even argue that AoEing adds on Maloriakk is more challenging than a lot of dps tasks in this game (which is no great feat - dps, especially ranged dps, is not exactly rocket surgery).

    Still, you have to move constantly (and I can't help but jump for all of it too, cause boomkins just look so funny jumping around like crazy)... you sunfire/IS, tab target, dodge shadow pools, and also plant mushrooms/detonate every 10 seconds (and accurately aiming that targeting circle while jumping around can be tough!).

    Could a well trained monkey accomplish this? Yes. But still, it's much more active and involved than say, spamming wrath followed by spamming starfire followed by spamming wrath while standing still. Or worse, spamming a channeled AoE spell that only has to be cast once every 10-seconds. I mean, sunfire spam might not be the fanciest dps playstyle in the game, but holy cow it has to win the fanciest AoE one at the very least.


    ...RIP, most fun I've had since healing heroic Twin Valks while on aggressive soaker duty. :<

    Arkas on
  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited May 2011
    It's nonsensical that they would try to curb Moonkin using moonfire/sunfire while on the run. We have a talent designed exactly for us to do that. I really don't understand.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Arkas wrote: »
    And my guild just started heroic Maloriakk yesterday - how bittersweet.
    Isn't this change not coming until 4.2?
    Arkas wrote:
    I know moonfire (sunfire) spamming is traditionally a pretty cheesy thing to do, but I always have a ridiculous amount of fun with it. I would even argue that AoEing adds on Maloriakk is more challenging than a lot of dps tasks in this game (which is no great feat - dps, especially ranged dps, is not exactly rocket surgery).

    Still, you have to move constantly (and I can't help but jump for all of it too, cause boomkins just look so funny jumping around like crazy)... you sunfire/IS, tab target, dodge shadow pools, and also plant mushrooms/detonate every 10 seconds (and accurately aiming that targeting circle while jumping around can be tough!).

    Could a well trained monkey accomplish this? Yes. But still, it's much more active and involved than say, spamming wrath followed by spamming starfire followed by spamming wrath while standing still. Or worse, spamming a channeled AoE spell that only has to be cast once every 10-seconds. I mean, sunfire spam might not be the fanciest dps playstyle in the game, but holy cow it has to win the fanciest AoE one at the very least.


    ...RIP, most fun I've had since healing heroic Twin Valks while on aggressive soaker duty. :<
    I don't think anyone believes that the oomkin optimal AoE rotation isn't relatively challenging (but it does come with the bonus of being top tier DPS). I'm guessing Blizzard just didn't expect/intend for it to work out that way.
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    It's nonsensical that they would try to curb Moonkin using moonfire/sunfire while on the run. We have a talent designed exactly for us to do that. I really don't understand.
    And you'll still be able to. They just don't want oomkins to be able to do it under an indefinite eclipse state.

    forty on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    I really don't understand.

    It's a PvP nerf. Eclipsed druids spamming instants were too good (in Blizzards eyes). PvE just suffers because of it.


    Regarding AoE, Moonkin still have a great variety of different spells (Hurricane, Mushrooms, Typhoon, Starfall) so Blizz really should be able to make this work. Maybe they'll have to change some CDs or some damage numbers, but we just got the first round of tiny changes for 4.2. There will be more.

    Grobian on
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  • ArkasArkas Registered User
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Isn't this change not coming until 4.2?

    Yep. I say 'bittersweet' because I started the most fun boomkin fight in the game the same day I learned they were breaking the mechanic that makes it fun. I have to enjoy my hopping-in-circles with a dark cloud of impending doom hanging over my head.
    Grobian wrote: »
    Regarding AoE, Moonkin still have a great variety of different spells (Hurricane, Mushrooms, Typhoon, Starfall) so Blizz really should be able to make this work.

    They're all just so much less flashy and exciting, though.
    forty wrote: »
    Dkarrde wrote: »
    It's nonsensical that they would try to curb Moonkin using moonfire/sunfire while on the run. We have a talent designed exactly for us to do that. I really don't understand.
    And you'll still be able to. They just don't want oomkins to be able to do it under an indefinite eclipse state.

    Problem is that DoT damage is very good while in an eclipse state, and very bad while out of it. So bad, in fact, that it might be more viable to stop casting DoTs altogether to stay in solar while you WM/hurricane. The complaint that Blizzard is gutting the talent (and playstyle) is warranted.



    Also, NINJA NERF TO RESTORATION DRUIDS:

    ... tree form no longer plants little seeds while you stand around. :(

    Arkas on
  • CelianCelian Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    While it's mainly an AoE nerf, doesn't the Eclipse change also affect the amounts of Wrath/Starfire/Starsurge you can do while in an Eclipse? If your moonfire/sunfire uses up energy, doesn't it mean you'll do 1 less wrath or starfire during your Eclipse?

    Celian on
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  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User
    edited May 2011
    Yep. Hence why the druid forums have an 11-page thread where pretty much everyone who's a moonkin that actually does math is decrying the change. Some of the posts, of course, are people who are just raging, but there are a lot of reasonable, well-thought-out posts that are equally severe in criticism.

    Not only is it a severe nerf to multitarget DPS, it's a moderate nerf to our already middle-of-the-road single target DPS and a huge nerf to fun.

    Dkarrde on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Arkas wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Isn't this change not coming until 4.2?

    Yep. I say 'bittersweet' because I started the most fun boomkin fight in the game the same day I learned they were breaking the mechanic that makes it fun. I have to enjoy my hopping-in-circles with a dark cloud of impending doom hanging over my head.
    If it makes you feel better, you'll be sick of heroic Maloriak well before 4.2 comes out. And then you'll probably never have to do it again after that!

    forty on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Not sure how to feel about resto druid 4 piece for t13.

    2piece is great though

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    the 4piece as spoiled looks amazing. Probably too amazing to be real / go live.

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    the 4piece as spoiled looks amazing. Probably too amazing to be real / go live.

    Well kind of, letting a lifebloom bloom has a lot of downsides though.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Well, without the current tier's 4set bonus, the downsides are not as significant... and it allows ToL to become a massive through-put aoe healing cooldown (though you'd have to time it 9 + 1.5 seconds ahead of the incoming aoe).

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Well, without the current tier's 4set bonus, the downsides are not as significant... and it allows ToL to become a massive through-put aoe healing cooldown (though you'd have to time it 9 + 1.5 seconds ahead of the incoming aoe).

    You can hardly say the current 4 piece set will help mitigate the effects of the next 4 piece set.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Uh, I'm saying something akin to the inverse... the only real downsides to letting LB bloom right now are the GCD opportunity cost of recasting a 3stack and the 4set bonus (and to a lesser extent 1.5 seconds maybe of lost OoC procs). Since the 4set bonus won't be around, the only real loss is the time cost of recasting a 3stack.

    So, I'm not saying what you said I said. :)

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Uh, I'm saying something akin to the inverse... the only real downsides to letting LB bloom right now are the GCD opportunity cost of recasting a 3stack and the 4set bonus (and to a lesser extent 1.5 seconds maybe of lost OoC procs). Since the 4set bonus won't be around, the only real loss is the time cost of recasting a 3stack.

    So, I'm not saying what you said I said. :)

    And I think you're underestimating the lost of that 3 GCDs. That's 3 casts where the tank isn't getting healed as much and you're not healing anyone else.

    Its a useful enough situational thing, but seems lack luster for a 4 piece in terms of how constant it would be.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I can't see these set bonuses you're talking about, but from context it sounds like it makes a Lifebloom bloom do some sort of AoE heal to everyone near the target? That doesn't really sound too useful in practice with Lifebloom's current role/mechanics.

    forty on
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  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Who's underestimating the loss of 3 gcds? That's a goram eternity!

    The AoE throughput on this 4set though is pretty amazing, though. And with ToL, the potential for the AoE healing to be too good is pretty self-evident, and with planning/forethought, outright broken.

    It may not be as good as the current 4set in your opinion, but you can't say it's lackluster.

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    I can't see these set bonuses you're talking about, but from context it sounds like it makes a Lifebloom bloom do some sort of AoE heal to everyone near the target? That doesn't really sound too useful in practice with Lifebloom's current role/mechanics.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2287-Tier-12-Sets-Bonuses-Patch-4.2-Character-Selection-Screen

    Restoration 2 Pieces - Your periodic healing from Lifebloom has a 40% chance to restore 1% of your base mana each time it heals a target.
    Restoration 4 Pieces - When your Lifebloom blooms, it instantly heals up to 2 nearby injured targets for the same amount.

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yeah see its much better to keep lifebloom up and swiftment the other guys or something.

    Letting lifebloom fall is bad juju.

    Add the loss of clear casting procs to the mix as well, and the fact the bloom got a significant nerf.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yeah, you'll probably end up being correct. Do you think we'll get a feasible "choice" in the matter, stat-wise?

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Whether to let it bloom or not is going to depend on fight mechanics. Letting it bloom and restacking is a lot more efficient when the bloom is potentially healing for three times as much.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm curious what the range on it is going to be. It has to be decent (like 10+ yards) or it will just be terrible, because in a lot of encounters, the tank isn't exactly standing too close to anyone else.

    forty on
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  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Doubt the 4pc will see that much use outside of tree of life. Tossing a bunch of lifebloom in tree form around with the 4pc should be pretty powerful especially with the +15% healing from tree form.

    danx on
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    I'd be nice to see a spell that lets you pop your lifebloom. Granted, the last thing we need is more goddamn buttons to press.

    I dunno if they can do this, but the obvious solution to Balance is for Sun/Moonfire and IS to consume no energy on the first cast following an eclipse. I dunno what it's like nowadays, but I doubt you'll frequently need to refresh a DoT a second time during an eclipse.

    Sterica on
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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I always refresh my dot(s) right before I leave Eclipse which then lets it/them last until the next Eclipse happens. And I'd like it so when you cast Lifebloom on someone new your Lifebloom stack blooms, which is effectively the same thing as having a bloom button.

    Opty on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That's how I thought it should work as soon as they changed it to a single-target thing, but I'm guessing there's a PvP reason they didn't do it that way.

    forty on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    That's how I thought it should work as soon as they changed it to a single-target thing, but I'm guessing there's a PvP reason they didn't do it that way.

    Yeah that would be stupid good in pvp

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • tarnoktarnok Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    My current character is a resto/balance druid but the guild I'm in needs tanks so I'm trying to put together a set of tanking gear. In the mean time, I know nothing about tanking as a druid. I've tanked before as a dk, but I need some advice on gearing and what abilities I'm going to be leaning on.

    tarnok on
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  • thenshewaslikethenshewaslike Registered User
    edited May 2011
    tarnok wrote: »
    My current character is a resto/balance druid but the guild I'm in needs tanks so I'm trying to put together a set of tanking gear. In the mean time, I know nothing about tanking as a druid. I've tanked before as a dk, but I need some advice on gearing and what abilities I'm going to be leaning on.
    All agi gear, all the time, unless there is an enormous difference between what you have and an option in front of you for necks/rings/etc. Gem it with all agi gems, except for good set bonuses and to activate your meta; for those use agi/whatever cuts. Tanking trinkets are usually less good than agi ones, depending on your needs. Reforge all the haste, hit, and expertise to dodge, in that order. So a haste/expertise piece, reforge the haste. Reforge your crit depending on your preference.

    Debuff the boss with feral fairy fire and Demo Roar. Infected wounds will happen on its own. Hit mangle every time it is up. Hit maul every time it is up. Stack lacerate to 3 to buff yourself with pulverize. Then keep at least one lacerate up for the free mangle procs, but mix in thrash as well, until you need to rebuff pulverize. Cat form whenever you aren't tanking anything.

    thenshewaslike on
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Mastery all day er'ry day.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2011
    I still dislike Efflorescence being attached to Swiftmend when Wild Mushroom is a blatantly obvious way to give druids a bit more AoE healing while also allowing resto to use one of their new Cata spells. Very elegant.

    Sterica on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    I still dislike Efflorescence being attached to Swiftmend when Wild Mushroom is a blatantly obvious way to give druids a bit more AoE healing while also allowing resto to use one of their new Cata spells. Very elegant.

    Having to put down mushrooms and then detonate them would take too long for something needed right now.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I think I'll take lower control fire-and-forget Swiftmend Effloresence over one that required at least 2 GCDs, two more critical hotkeys, and time spent ground targeting.

    forty on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Ground targeting would work like shit with typical healing methods involving grids and such as well.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Well, there's already a predecent for it for shamans (Healing Rain) and priests (Holy Word something or other with an S). And of course paladins have an AoE heal based on facing requirements.

    But all those things have notably more ease of use than a hypothetical mushroom detonate explosion.

    forty on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Never really had a problem with the paladin aoe heal. Point towards group of people. Fire haduken.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    That's not really the point, but it still requires more interaction and awareness than putting your mouse over a health bar in a matrix of health bars and clicking/pressing a hotkey.

    forty on
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