Hmm.. all the legends about Flemeth say that she was an abomination - made a deal with a spirit, and it actually ended up better than most of the other cases.
Hmm.. all the legends about Flemeth say that she was an abomination - made a deal with a spirit, and it actually ended up better than most of the other cases.
Spirit of Pwnage perhaps ...
That's the thing about the world of Dragon Age, though. All you have is myths and legends, and what a variety of characters believe. There is very little straight out truth to the world, and it is awesome. Like all the arguments over whether Andraste was the chosen of the Maker, or if she was just a really powerful mage who used religion to trick everyone into following her. There are arguments for both sides, but no real proof on either.
I have no doubt that Flemeth is much more than we are being told, but I still stand by that all great lies have hints of truth in them.
And yeah, Wynne never turned abomination on us.
Actually, wasn't Anders already a spirit healer? I don't mean just what his class was in DAA, but actually a spirit healer accourding to DA lore. In Witch Hunt, you uncover a tome that talks about Spirit Healers and Anders makes a snarky comment in that was written into it.
So if Anders already had a spirit, then add Justice, makes extra crazy abomination?
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I have no doubt that Flemeth is much more than we are being told, but I still stand by that all great lies have hints of truth in them.
And yeah, Wynne never turned abomination on us.
Actually, wasn't Anders already a spirit healer? I don't mean just what his class was in DAA, but actually a spirit healer accourding to DA lore. In Witch Hunt, you uncover a tome that talks about Spirit Healers and Anders makes a snarky comment in that was written into it.
So if Anders already had a spirit, then add Justice, makes extra crazy abomination?
Spirit healers aren't all abominations. They have some sort of connection to a fade spirit, but they don't generally, like, let it in. Because that, as it turns out, is bad news.
And while Wynne may have been an abomination technically, her personality didn't really lend itself well to twisting a spirit of faith the way Anders twisted a spirit of justice.
I have no doubt that Flemeth is much more than we are being told, but I still stand by that all great lies have hints of truth in them.
And yeah, Wynne never turned abomination on us.
Actually, wasn't Anders already a spirit healer? I don't mean just what his class was in DAA, but actually a spirit healer accourding to DA lore. In Witch Hunt, you uncover a tome that talks about Spirit Healers and Anders makes a snarky comment in that was written into it.
So if Anders already had a spirit, then add Justice, makes extra crazy abomination?
Finn was a Spirit Healer, too, and he was far too enamoured of Circle life to ever let a spirit possess him. He likes the rules, and has never had the extenuating circumstances that Wynne had to for the issue to be forced.
Good question actually. Wonder if we will get a clarification out of that or if it will get glossed over. Something along the lines of one codex entry saying she was also a master swordsmith or what they actually found was Soul Edge and it forms itself to the wielder.
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Not even necessary to kill them. I'm pretty sure that the idol wouldn't be able to do squat to a Tranquil; they have no emotions to play on. They can't go crazy. They also probably wouldn't care what she did with it.
Meredith has got to have a fiendishly powerful will to have appeared only increasingly hardcore instead of batshit nuts like Bartrand; I'd imagine that she wouldn't have people murdered outright if it's 100% not necessary.
Because she wasn't crazy in Act 2, even though she presumably had the idol for some time already. Her sudden insanity was only apparent after you defeat the Harvester.
That means nothing. The process might be gradual or whatever. At the finale tho: that was the idol. It's so blatantly shoved into your face that I literally facepalmed the first time I saw it. Especially after Varric's brother's little plotline.
That was the definitely the idol's doing when she tries to kill Hawke at the end, but I never really got any crazy vibes off her up till that point. I started off as a mage in DA1 and was partial to them in 2 but damn, the mages in Kirkwall are really just that bad. Everything she's doing makes total sense, in fact after the dicks turned on me even though I'd been helping them out throughout the whole damned game up to that point I thought it was odd how she hadn't invoked the rite of annulment ages ago.
But then again maybe that's just the writing at work, the head mage guy seemed fine too up until the whole OH HEY I WAS PALS WITH YOUR MOM'S MURDERER AND NOW I'M GOING TO TURN INTO A GIANT MONSTER AND TRY TO KILL YOU EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ON MY SIDE.
Wynne was an abomination? How do we know this? She always seemed like a fairly "by the rules" mage to me.
And in fact, I was quite sad that I had to kill her when she flipped out on me when I defiled the urn of sacred ashes.
Uh,
You run into a random encounter where most of the party gets taken out by cutscene power to some Darkspawn and Wynne uses some weird magic to get you running again. She then reveals at camp she's dead and her body is being powered by a Spirit of Faith, similar to the Spirit of Justice that inhabits Anders. Its why you have to kill her during the Sacred Ashes quest, her bond with the spirit reinforces her connection to the Chantry to a massive degree.
Also, defiling the ashes makes you a total monster.
Wynne was an abomination? How do we know this? She always seemed like a fairly "by the rules" mage to me.
And in fact, I was quite sad that I had to kill her when she flipped out on me when I defiled the urn of sacred ashes.
Technically an abomination, yes. That's basically her character arc; she got possessed by a spirit of Faith.
Thing is, Wynne has no dickish qualities that would lead to tendency to blow up buildings or the bad dermatological problems that other Abominations get.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
My understanding was that she's only mostly dead, and is fully dependent on the spirit to keep going. As in, if the spirit weren't there, she'd be lying in bed and slowly fading away like a normal old person on their deathbed, but because of the spirit she can run around and shoot fireballs and heal peeps like she used to.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
My understanding was that if the spirit weren't there, she'd be full on dead; a rotted corpse at this point.
Mage Hawke was the best choice because it meant never having to deal with anders outside of his quests
Plus Carver is fun
Truth. I've always had the most fun as my Magehawke. Considering Merril is the best damned bloodmage possible (doesn't need any willpower) making a forcemage + spirit healer Hawke is a breeze. And, no Vengence needed.
I sort of want to stop calling him Anders. Anders was a goofball with a soft spot for cats in DAO:A. This abomination in DA2 is a dick.
Defiling the Ashes always seemed like something they forgot to finish or something, because after you have the Reaver specialization you gain absolutely nothing for doing it, and in fact lose 1-2 to party members for doing it. The cult refuses to leave the area to help you with the Darkspawn, so no additional armies gained for the final battle or anything.
They should have let you use the dragon in the final battle if you defiled the ashes. At least then you'd have an excuse ("Why the hell did you do that?" "Because now I've got a fucking dragon on my side."), plus it would be nice to introduce the Archdemon to "Andraste."
Defiling the Ashes always seemed like something they forgot to finish or something, because after you have the Reaver specialization you gain absolutely nothing for doing it, and in fact lose 1-2 to party members for doing it. The cult refuses to leave the area to help you with the Darkspawn, so no additional armies gained for the final battle or anything.
They should have let you use the dragon in the final battle if you defiled the ashes. At least then you'd have an excuse ("Why the hell did you do that?" "Because now I've got a fucking dragon on my side."), plus it would be nice to introduce the Archdemon to "Andraste."
Never thought about it at the time. Just figured defiling the ashes was my asshole dwarf commoner being an asshole yet again.
Defiling the Ashes always seemed like something they forgot to finish or something, because after you have the Reaver specialization you gain absolutely nothing for doing it, and in fact lose 1-2 to party members for doing it. The cult refuses to leave the area to help you with the Darkspawn, so no additional armies gained for the final battle or anything.
They should have let you use the dragon in the final battle if you defiled the ashes. At least then you'd have an excuse ("Why the hell did you do that?" "Because now I've got a fucking dragon on my side."), plus it would be nice to introduce the Archdemon to "Andraste."
Yeah, it seems like that might've required a bit more cutscene power than they had time for. I was pretty pissed when I found out there would be no dragon cult backing after I did that, so I made sure that Brother Genitivi organized a holy crusade against them.
Hmm.. all the legends about Flemeth say that she was an abomination - made a deal with a spirit, and it actually ended up better than most of the other cases.
Spirit of Pwnage perhaps ...
That's the thing about the world of Dragon Age, though. All you have is myths and legends, and what a variety of characters believe. There is very little straight out truth to the world, and it is awesome. Like all the arguments over whether Andraste was the chosen of the Maker, or if she was just a really powerful mage who used religion to trick everyone into following her. There are arguments for both sides, but no real proof on either.
You know, that's perfectly fine if used well. Andraste is a case in point: even though it's clear she was something very, very special (all the events during the Andraste's Ashes questline are proof positive), they never say what this "something" is. Which is very cool.
However, the red lyrium stuff is outright insulting. We know it's a McGuffin that turns people insane. We know the dwarven thane Hawke and company ventured into was something completely at odds with dwarven history (or "history"). We're given nothing more. It's a copout. Either the red lyrium will be more clearly defined in subsequent installments of the series (you know, I really miss those times where you were expected to have "resolution" in the game you bought, instead of the game you'll buy 2 or 3 years from now), or it's going to be MAGIC, MAGIC, MAGIC!
I really think the mages in Kirkwall were almost comically represented. I was replaying DA1 last week: when you see an abomination in DA1, you know something REALLY bad happened, and someone made a REALLY bad (or just plain perverse) choice.
In DA2? "(Mage) Kind sir, would you point me to the Chantry?" "(Random passerby) Oh, first left, second right." *5 mins later* "OH, DEAR LORD! IT WAS FIRST RIGHT, SECOND LEFT! THAT BASTARD, I'M SO AAAAAAANGRYYYYYY" *turns into an abomination*
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
I hope we get a DLC announcement at E3 or something.
Hmm.. all the legends about Flemeth say that she was an abomination - made a deal with a spirit, and it actually ended up better than most of the other cases.
Spirit of Pwnage perhaps ...
That's the thing about the world of Dragon Age, though. All you have is myths and legends, and what a variety of characters believe. There is very little straight out truth to the world, and it is awesome. Like all the arguments over whether Andraste was the chosen of the Maker, or if she was just a really powerful mage who used religion to trick everyone into following her. There are arguments for both sides, but no real proof on either.
You know, that's perfectly fine if used well. Andraste is a case in point: even though it's clear she was something very, very special (all the events during the Andraste's Ashes questline are proof positive), they never say what this "something" is. Which is very cool.
However, the red lyrium stuff is outright insulting. We know it's a McGuffin that turns people insane. We know the dwarven thane Hawke and company ventured into was something completely at odds with dwarven history (or "history"). We're given nothing more. It's a copout. Either the red lyrium will be more clearly defined in subsequent installments of the series (you know, I really miss those times where you were expected to have "resolution" in the game you bought, instead of the game you'll buy 2 or 3 years from now), or it's going to be MAGIC, MAGIC, MAGIC!
I really think the mages in Kirkwall were almost comically represented. I was replaying DA1 last week: when you see an abomination in DA1, you know something REALLY bad happened, and someone made a REALLY bad (or just plain perverse) choice.
In DA2? "(Mage) Kind sir, would you point me to the Chantry?" "(Random passerby) Oh, first left, second right." *5 mins later* "OH, DEAR LORD! IT WAS FIRST RIGHT, SECOND LEFT! THAT BASTARD, I'M SO AAAAAAANGRYYYYYY" *turns into an abomination*
How is red lyrium insulting? Red (IE Raw) Lyrium was in the original Dragon Age, and it was pointed out as being stupidly dangerous for anyone other than dwarves to handle. Directly from the Codex Entry:
For humans and elves, direct contact with lyrium ore produces nausea, blistering of the skin, and dementia. Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours.
So, does that sound like anyone we know who was walking around with a raw lyrium sword strapped to their back? Just because they didn't show us the effects of prolong lyrium exposure until DA2 doesn't make it a cop out. The information has been available since DA:O.
I won't argue that the use of it was stupid though. I liked the game far better when it was just people getting stuck in a bad situation and being unable to find a way out. I also won't argue that mages in Kirkwall are retards and it completely weakened Abominations.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
I don't know.
DA2 made abominations far more dangerous to me than DA1 ever did.
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AlazullYour body is not a temple, it's an amusement park.Enjoy the ride.Registered Userregular
I won't argue that the use of it was stupid though. I liked the game far better when it was just people getting stuck in a bad situation and being unable to find a way out. I also won't argue that mages in Kirkwall are retards and it completely weakened Abominations.
While I thought it was used a little too often, I think the concept of trying to show you how easy it is for a mage to become an abomination was to set up justification for Act 3. I mean, if you play DA:O it's easy to be like, "Well, mages can be dangerous and should be supervised but they only become abominations if shit really gets bad."
DA2 is more like, "A mage can become an abomination at any time, with next to no provocation, and definitely doesn't need shit to go really bad to make the choice. Heck, even being possessed by a spirit can cause shit to go down. So now you understand why the Chantry and the Templars try to control them. Now you understand why they are made Tranquil. They are too useful to kill off, and too dangerous to keep unchecked."
All in all, DA2 is much more wordy on the subject.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
I always thought abominations were absolutely pathetic given how dangerous they were meant to be. Less dangerous than most mages.
I really wish they'd had very few, and made every single one a unique and powerful threat. Using them as cannon fodder just makes a total mockery of the lore.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
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Spirit of Pwnage perhaps ...
That's the thing about the world of Dragon Age, though. All you have is myths and legends, and what a variety of characters believe. There is very little straight out truth to the world, and it is awesome. Like all the arguments over whether Andraste was the chosen of the Maker, or if she was just a really powerful mage who used religion to trick everyone into following her. There are arguments for both sides, but no real proof on either.
And yeah, Wynne never turned abomination on us.
Actually, wasn't Anders already a spirit healer? I don't mean just what his class was in DAA, but actually a spirit healer accourding to DA lore. In Witch Hunt, you uncover a tome that talks about Spirit Healers and Anders makes a snarky comment in that was written into it.
So if Anders already had a spirit, then add Justice, makes extra crazy abomination?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Spirit healers aren't all abominations. They have some sort of connection to a fade spirit, but they don't generally, like, let it in. Because that, as it turns out, is bad news.
And while Wynne may have been an abomination technically, her personality didn't really lend itself well to twisting a spirit of faith the way Anders twisted a spirit of justice.
Stay away from her Bioware ok?
Finn was a Spirit Healer, too, and he was far too enamoured of Circle life to ever let a spirit possess him. He likes the rules, and has never had the extenuating circumstances that Wynne had to for the issue to be forced.
I like Finn. He's proof that the system can work.
Wouldn't that guy go apeshit insane and try to take it?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Not even necessary to kill them. I'm pretty sure that the idol wouldn't be able to do squat to a Tranquil; they have no emotions to play on. They can't go crazy. They also probably wouldn't care what she did with it.
Meredith has got to have a fiendishly powerful will to have appeared only increasingly hardcore instead of batshit nuts like Bartrand; I'd imagine that she wouldn't have people murdered outright if it's 100% not necessary.
But then again maybe that's just the writing at work, the head mage guy seemed fine too up until the whole OH HEY I WAS PALS WITH YOUR MOM'S MURDERER AND NOW I'M GOING TO TURN INTO A GIANT MONSTER AND TRY TO KILL YOU EVEN WHEN YOU'RE ON MY SIDE.
And in fact, I was quite sad that I had to kill her when she flipped out on me when I defiled the urn of sacred ashes.
DA2 lacks a proper healer party member.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Plus Carver is fun
Uh,
Also, defiling the ashes makes you a total monster.
Technically an abomination, yes. That's basically her character arc; she got possessed by a spirit of Faith.
Thing is, Wynne has no dickish qualities that would lead to tendency to blow up buildings or the bad dermatological problems that other Abominations get.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Truth. I've always had the most fun as my Magehawke. Considering Merril is the best damned bloodmage possible (doesn't need any willpower) making a forcemage + spirit healer Hawke is a breeze. And, no Vengence needed.
I sort of want to stop calling him Anders. Anders was a goofball with a soft spot for cats in DAO:A. This abomination in DA2 is a dick.
Sounded to me like she was bleeding out but not yet dead or something of that nature.
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They should have let you use the dragon in the final battle if you defiled the ashes. At least then you'd have an excuse ("Why the hell did you do that?" "Because now I've got a fucking dragon on my side."), plus it would be nice to introduce the Archdemon to "Andraste."
Never thought about it at the time. Just figured defiling the ashes was my asshole dwarf commoner being an asshole yet again.
Yeah, it seems like that might've required a bit more cutscene power than they had time for. I was pretty pissed when I found out there would be no dragon cult backing after I did that, so I made sure that Brother Genitivi organized a holy crusade against them.
You know, that's perfectly fine if used well. Andraste is a case in point: even though it's clear she was something very, very special (all the events during the Andraste's Ashes questline are proof positive), they never say what this "something" is. Which is very cool.
However, the red lyrium stuff is outright insulting. We know it's a McGuffin that turns people insane. We know the dwarven thane Hawke and company ventured into was something completely at odds with dwarven history (or "history"). We're given nothing more. It's a copout. Either the red lyrium will be more clearly defined in subsequent installments of the series (you know, I really miss those times where you were expected to have "resolution" in the game you bought, instead of the game you'll buy 2 or 3 years from now), or it's going to be MAGIC, MAGIC, MAGIC!
I really think the mages in Kirkwall were almost comically represented. I was replaying DA1 last week: when you see an abomination in DA1, you know something REALLY bad happened, and someone made a REALLY bad (or just plain perverse) choice.
In DA2? "(Mage) Kind sir, would you point me to the Chantry?" "(Random passerby) Oh, first left, second right." *5 mins later* "OH, DEAR LORD! IT WAS FIRST RIGHT, SECOND LEFT! THAT BASTARD, I'M SO AAAAAAANGRYYYYYY" *turns into an abomination*
How is red lyrium insulting? Red (IE Raw) Lyrium was in the original Dragon Age, and it was pointed out as being stupidly dangerous for anyone other than dwarves to handle. Directly from the Codex Entry:
For humans and elves, direct contact with lyrium ore produces nausea, blistering of the skin, and dementia. Over time, templars grow disoriented, incapable of distinguishing memory from present, or dream from waking. They frequently become paranoid as their worst memories and nightmares haunt their waking hours.
So, does that sound like anyone we know who was walking around with a raw lyrium sword strapped to their back? Just because they didn't show us the effects of prolong lyrium exposure until DA2 doesn't make it a cop out. The information has been available since DA:O.
I won't argue that the use of it was stupid though. I liked the game far better when it was just people getting stuck in a bad situation and being unable to find a way out. I also won't argue that mages in Kirkwall are retards and it completely weakened Abominations.
DA2 made abominations far more dangerous to me than DA1 ever did.
While I thought it was used a little too often, I think the concept of trying to show you how easy it is for a mage to become an abomination was to set up justification for Act 3. I mean, if you play DA:O it's easy to be like, "Well, mages can be dangerous and should be supervised but they only become abominations if shit really gets bad."
DA2 is more like, "A mage can become an abomination at any time, with next to no provocation, and definitely doesn't need shit to go really bad to make the choice. Heck, even being possessed by a spirit can cause shit to go down. So now you understand why the Chantry and the Templars try to control them. Now you understand why they are made Tranquil. They are too useful to kill off, and too dangerous to keep unchecked."
All in all, DA2 is much more wordy on the subject.
I really wish they'd had very few, and made every single one a unique and powerful threat. Using them as cannon fodder just makes a total mockery of the lore.