I'm really disappointed that the next game is an MMORPG. People online are morons, why would I possibly want them in my universe?
I don't want anybody else involved in my Mass Effect game, either. Not every game has to have multiplayer.
I agree... I like some MMO's, but I really also like the individual aspect of the story in KOTOR 1&2. Hopefully they tailor-made the story in The Old Republic for a mass group of people, but I'll miss the single-person aspect of it. Oh well.
The nice thing about the single-player experience is you can be an important person. In an MMORPG, nobody is important. In KOTOR, you are one of the most badass Jedi/Sith in the entire galaxy. In KOTOR II, you are arguably even more powerful and central to the story. In the Old Republic MMORPG, you are D4rf_V4d4rrr69.
Am I, like, the only person who was so engrossed in the story that I didn't see the big KOTOR twist coming? Or are there a lot of you who are just embarrassed to admit you were too?
I didn't see it either.
Now I have a specific name for my character every time I play through again.
The real name. It makes some of the dialog priceless.
Ha! Yes...my preference is to use (Huge Spoiler...do not click if you have not finished KOTOR)
I think the only issue with playing it on OXbox is that you miss out on the restoration mod, which is really nice and fills in most of the cut content.
Most of the cut content was cut for good reason. Shit was incomplete or fudged with the pacing of the game.
Edit: Also for the above poster, Manaan is my favorite planet don't listen to the haters.
Content was incomplete because they rushed it out the damn door, so I don't really consider that much of a good reason. And my god, Manaan sucks donkey balls.
Are there any other major surprises? Because now I really want to read through all those spoilers, but I don't want to ruin anything. I was positive the twist was going to be...
Bastila turning on me. The hints about her issues with the dark-side have been so heavy handed, that I was really starting to be disappointed that something that apparently obvious was being talked about as this epic blindsided surprise.
And Jolee just pretty much said that that's what going to happen. So I'm not worried about that being spoilered for me. Is there anything else that should stop me from reading everything now?
Are there any other major surprises? Because now I really want to read through all those spoilers, but I don't want to ruin anything. I was positive the twist was going to be...
Bastila turning on me. The hints about her issues with the dark-side have been so heavy handed, that I was really starting to be disappointed that something that apparently obvious was being talked about as this epic blindsided surprise.
And Jolee just pretty much said that that's what going to happen. So I'm not worried about that being spoilered for me. Is there anything else that should stop me from reading everything now?
Not that I can remember, but I think you're pretty close to the end. Just see it through, you're so close!
Icemopper on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
It's always nice to see someone who is honestly surprised by that plot twist.
It's always nice to see someone who is honestly surprised by that plot twist.
I was, when I played the game for the first time. In retrospect,
everybody wouldn't stop blabbing about Revan and he didn't appear to have any auxiliary relevance to the story, so I should have seen it.
I think it caught me off guard because...
I was so focused on Bastila's dark-side issues. I thought that was the big huge (obvious) spoiler, so I didn't really notice anything else.
Yesterday afternoon, I was debating about what I wanted to do once I finished this light-side run. I wasn't sure if I wanted to jump right back into a dark-side run, or move on to something else and come back to this later. Absolutely every ounce of uncertainty vanished at about 1am this morning.
I mean what other game can you command a wookie to kill his best friend?
That you can do this is a really big spoiler even though it isn't really a plot point, it's fantastic to discover it yourself. So, anybody yet to do a DS run, don't click!
Man this thread has got me jonesing for some KOTOR, LOVED it when it came out. Gonna grab a d2d copy tonight. Remind me, how long does it take to get mah lightsaber again?
I just beat this for the first time yesterday, I saw the twist coming because what got me playing through it in the first place was reading the LP of KOTOR2, but man, it is quite a good game. Has me excited for the MMO too, I think it'll turn out okay. Now I just want to play through all of Bioware/Obsidian's games too (some again).
Concerning my weird post, I was looking at some art of pokegirls and after all the japanese and chinese imagery, I was feeling sad that Jade Empire didn't have a multicultural sequal detailing the war between Kali and Susanoo which was orchestrated by Shiva and Amaterasu to weaken their siblings and bring them under control.
RE: The twist. I was upset that my Revan didn't have any force freakouts that threw crap around the room. Everyone except the droids should have been stuck to the ceiling.
edit: Huh, according to wikipedia, Susanoo flayed a pony and threw it at his sister's sewing machine because he was bored.
I was just talking about KotoR II with a friend of mine.
We are both amazed that a game which is so utterly broken and unfinished could still manage to be as good as it is. I maintain that had Obsidian taken another six months (or a year) on it, just finishing what they started and debugging, it would have been easily the best RPG ever made. Even as-is, I daresay it's better than the first, and definitely better than the first in terms of writing.
Jade Empire is a woefully under-rated title. The game is really a lost gem that really deserves a sequel. Here's hoping the return to the IP after ME is wrapped up. It would make a nice counterpoint to DA.
Jade Empire was pretty cool for giving you two different ways to be an asshole to people. There's the asshole who does it for philosophical reasons that have to do with strength and personal power, and there's the asshole who just likes being an asshole for no particular reason. That's one of the only games I could stomach playing the "evil" path.
Ok so started my playthrough, just picked up mission, and I'm having the same issues with her as I did in the first game, which is her sniper ability seems to only take away 5 % of a mobs health, at best. Am I using her wrong? I know she's a support class and all, but she really doesn't contribute any damage. I'd like to use her over the wookie but she makes it so hard
Jade Empire is a woefully under-rated title. The game is really a lost gem that really deserves a sequel. Here's hoping the return to the IP after ME is wrapped up. It would make a nice counterpoint to DA.
Jade Empire was pretty cool for giving you two different ways to be an asshole to people. There's the asshole who does it for philosophical reasons that have to do with strength and personal power, and there's the asshole who just likes being an asshole for no particular reason. That's one of the only games I could stomach playing the "evil" path.
An asshole's game, if you will, which actually fits with what I remember of it.
Ok so started my playthrough, just picked up mission, and I'm having the same issues with her as I did in the first game, which is her sniper ability seems to only take away 5 % of a mobs health, at best. Am I using her wrong? I know she's a support class and all, but she really doesn't contribute any damage. I'd like to use her over the wookie but she makes it so hard
Don't worry about damage from Mission. Seriously, don't. Within the next two or three hours of the game, the PC will be able to do so much damage you could easily solo the rest of the game. Damage from your companions really, really isn't important.
You take Mission for all of the extra skills that she brings to the table. With Mission on the team, the only skill you need to put points into is Persuade, which means you can skimp on the Intelligence in order to boost your other Ability scores, making you even more bad ass.
If you want Mission to do damage, have her use grenades. It will increase her damage output AND give her a wide variety of status inflicting effects.
Ok so started my playthrough, just picked up mission, and I'm having the same issues with her as I did in the first game, which is her sniper ability seems to only take away 5 % of a mobs health, at best. Am I using her wrong? I know she's a support class and all, but she really doesn't contribute any damage. I'd like to use her over the wookie but she makes it so hard
Are you continually selecting her sniper shot ability? I'm assuming you've probably figured it out by now, but if you don't keep telling your party members exactly what skill to use, they usually revert to their standard attack. The first couple battles I didn't really understand how the fight mechanics worked, and was having similar issues with damage output.
Also, remember that at its first level, sniper shot doesn't have a very large chance of doing double damage. And every attack that isn't a crit is just a normal attack. So until you start really increasing your crit chances, you're probably not going to see alot of damage output.
Reading this walkthrough of KotoR II is a good readd and it makes me sad that I cannot find it on steam. Might do a darkside playthrough of KotoR after I beat Republic commando.
I just played through Kotor 2 again after years away. I had forgotten how easy it is to bend the combat engine over a table. It seemed to take me forever to get a lightsaber, but when I did it was easy mode through the rest of the game. Not 'use your head and win' easy mode, but more 'walk through a room full of turrents, gunmen, and melee enemies near one-shotting everything and taking no damage easy mode'.
Then again, that was with a weapon finesse Jedi, and almost nothing could hurt him with his stupid high ac. I imagine it would have been harder had I played a strength build. Now I'm considering if I should play a walking electrical socket of a sith, or go back and play the original KOTOR. I never actually played through the game past a planet or two because some jerkass spoiled the fucking reveal for me. Before I knew it the second game was out and I didn't go back.
Okay, now this walkthrough has advanced to philosophical levels of awesome where listening to the characters debate philosophy is another level of action. Remind me why KotoR2 really bad compared to KotoR?
But to the average person, "the game has no ending" is enough to damn the entire previous game by itself, which I feel is really unfair. It's impossible to discuss KOTOR II with my girlfriend due to that.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Okay, now this walkthrough has advanced to philosophical levels of awesome where listening to the characters debate philosophy is another level of action. Remind me why KotoR2 really bad compared to KotoR?
It was a much worse game. Wait, no, I'm sorry, I thought you asked why KotOR was worse than KotOR 2.
Really the only thing KotOR has going for it is its lack of bugs, its completed ending, and the funny voices the fish people talk in. And the bug/feature? where Juhani was a lesbian, which I guess was kind of funny.
I got bored before I could finish KotOR II. What happened? Was there a KotOR like twist?
It depends when you stopped playing. There were some twists, I guess, but they weren't quite as gimmicky as the whole
You have amnesia and it turns out you're Revan
thing. Instead they were discoveries about the various characters and about the story that fit in organically with the narrative and made it that much more compelling and deep.
I got bored before I could finish KotOR II. What happened? Was there a KotOR like twist?
The big twist was...
That there was no twist. There was no great reveal, no master revelation. All of the big events were exactly as they seemed to be, and you were caught up in it simply because Kreia decided to use you as a pawn.
Anyway, I'm in the camp that KotoR 2 was worse then KotoR. This is because I wanted another Star Wars RPG, and KotoR2 is decidedly Non-Star Wars in its themes and presentation. Don't get me wrong, I loved KotoR 2, its got one hell of an interesting story and a bunch of interesting characters, its just I find that they really don't fit Star Wars.
I got bored before I could finish KotOR II. What happened? Was there a KotOR like twist?
The big twist was...
That there was no twist. There was no great reveal, no master revelation. All of the big events were exactly as they seemed to be, and you were caught up in it simply because Kreia decided to use you as a pawn.
Anyway, I'm in the camp that KotoR 2 was worse then KotoR. This is because I wanted another Star Wars RPG, and KotoR2 is decidedly Non-Star Wars in its themes and presentation. Don't get me wrong, I loved KotoR 2, its got one hell of an interesting story and a bunch of interesting characters, its just I find that they really don't fit Star Wars.
I'm a massive Star Wars fan, and if I wasn't in jail for being too big of a Star Wars fan you would see my Star Wars avatar, but you'll have to settle for just my Star Wars username. In any case, I don't subscribe to the whole "it's only Star Wars if the main character is a good guy Jedi with a blue lightsaber with an older Jedi mentor with a blue or green lightsaber and a cocky smuggler gunslinger pilot companion and a short droid that beeps and a tall droid that talks and they fight faceless armored enemies that can't shoot straight" and so on and so forth.
That seems to be the real difference between Bioware and Obsidian's take on KOTOR: Bioware is pretty much just lifting 90% of their material straight from the films (The Old Republic MMO is even worse in this regard), whereas Obsidian is telling an original story set in the Star Wars universe.
In a way, I think KOTOR II has more of what I'm looking for in a Star Wars game, in that it's a meditation on the force, on Jedi, and on the other ideas that form the very core of Star Wars, rather than just endless riffs on adventure movies wrapped in a Star Wars-flavored coating. Because honestly, what about KOTOR was Star Warsy? The lightsabers could just as easily have been swords (and in fact they often were), the blasters could have been guns, etc. The planets they took from the movies were Star Warsy, sure, but most of the game could have been replaced with some generic sci-fi universe (which is the route they went in Mass Effect).
Could you replace everything in KOTOR II with a generic sci-fi universe? No way! The Jedi and the Force and the Dark Side vs. the Light Side, the Sith vs. the Jedi, are the entire basis of the story. Most of KOTOR's narrative force comes from being a douchebag or a totally sweet dude, and the twist. Jade Empire does the same thing. In KOTOR II it's the characters and the relationships among them, and those are inextricably linked with Star Wars in a way that the stuff in KOTOR wasn't.
Because it's not like mind wiping a dark lord of the Sith is standard operating procedure for the Jedi. It was an excuse for the twist.
Plus it's not like they got rid of the lightsabers or the blasters or the robots. They even had a Zabrak with a remote and a Hutt crime lord and bounty hunters and so on. It certainly wasn't lacking in Star Wars-ness, I'd say.
As a die-hard Star Wars fan myself, I thought that KotOR2 was a very good Star Wars story.
I know there are neckbeards that get up in arms every time the Jedi vs Sith, Light vs Dark stuff doesn't play out in an incredibly predictable and by this point extremely stale manner, but to me the entire point of setting up that supposed objective dichotomy in the setting is to play with it. KotOR2 does that very, very well.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds.2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Not entirely relevant but one thing I really loved about Jade Empire:
When standing still, and with a sufficient Closed Fist score, your character's shadow will sprout writhing tentacles. I didn't see that till maybe my third time through, completely by accident, and it freaked me the fuck out.
Anyway, KoTOR does epic narrative while KoTOR II determinedly avoids epic. Direct comparisons are kind of silly without acknowledging their different goals. Plus, I'm not really sure how you can say KoTOR takes 90% of the things from the films but then isn't Star Wars-y, or that the twist isn't plausible considering they wanted the old era so they could do new things; Jolee is also fairly unorthodox in that he's a very reasonable advocate of balanced interpretation instead of the canonically zealous 'anything dark side is corruption no matter what.'
KoTOR II has better writing because it can contemplate broader concepts in a more realistic way, which I'm a big fan of and why I like the sequel better, but I also appreciate that we had two great games, as evidenced by their mass popularity (II has a slightly lower MC user score, but that's in part because many people experienced it in messy form) among RPG fans (so spare me the CoD comparisons).
Posts
I agree... I like some MMO's, but I really also like the individual aspect of the story in KOTOR 1&2. Hopefully they tailor-made the story in The Old Republic for a mass group of people, but I'll miss the single-person aspect of it. Oh well.
edit: Content was incomplete because they rushed it out the damn door, so I don't really consider that much of a good reason. And my god, Manaan sucks donkey balls.
Not that I can remember, but I think you're pretty close to the end. Just see it through, you're so close!
I was, when I played the game for the first time. In retrospect,
I think it caught me off guard because...
Yesterday afternoon, I was debating about what I wanted to do once I finished this light-side run. I wasn't sure if I wanted to jump right back into a dark-side run, or move on to something else and come back to this later. Absolutely every ounce of uncertainty vanished at about 1am this morning.
KOTOR1:
3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
That you can do this is a really big spoiler even though it isn't really a plot point, it's fantastic to discover it yourself. So, anybody yet to do a DS run, don't click!
How do the visuals stack up, 8 years on?
Steam: adamjnet
3DS FC: 5343-7720-0490
Yeah, I remember that much!
Steam: adamjnet
Steam: abunchofdaftpunk | PSN: noautomobilesgo | Lastfm: sjchszeppelin | Backloggery: colincummings | 3DS FC: 1392-6019-0219 |
I was very surprised by the plot twist. Unfortunately, I read it accidentally on a wiki while looking up a quest I was stuck on.
RE: The twist. I was upset that my Revan didn't have any force freakouts that threw crap around the room. Everyone except the droids should have been stuck to the ceiling.
edit: Huh, according to wikipedia, Susanoo flayed a pony and threw it at his sister's sewing machine because he was bored.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Why?
'Cause it'd be so cool.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
We are both amazed that a game which is so utterly broken and unfinished could still manage to be as good as it is. I maintain that had Obsidian taken another six months (or a year) on it, just finishing what they started and debugging, it would have been easily the best RPG ever made. Even as-is, I daresay it's better than the first, and definitely better than the first in terms of writing.
Jade Empire was pretty cool for giving you two different ways to be an asshole to people. There's the asshole who does it for philosophical reasons that have to do with strength and personal power, and there's the asshole who just likes being an asshole for no particular reason. That's one of the only games I could stomach playing the "evil" path.
Steam: adamjnet
An asshole's game, if you will, which actually fits with what I remember of it.
Don't worry about damage from Mission. Seriously, don't. Within the next two or three hours of the game, the PC will be able to do so much damage you could easily solo the rest of the game. Damage from your companions really, really isn't important.
You take Mission for all of the extra skills that she brings to the table. With Mission on the team, the only skill you need to put points into is Persuade, which means you can skimp on the Intelligence in order to boost your other Ability scores, making you even more bad ass.
If you want Mission to do damage, have her use grenades. It will increase her damage output AND give her a wide variety of status inflicting effects.
Are you continually selecting her sniper shot ability? I'm assuming you've probably figured it out by now, but if you don't keep telling your party members exactly what skill to use, they usually revert to their standard attack. The first couple battles I didn't really understand how the fight mechanics worked, and was having similar issues with damage output.
Also, remember that at its first level, sniper shot doesn't have a very large chance of doing double damage. And every attack that isn't a crit is just a normal attack. So until you start really increasing your crit chances, you're probably not going to see alot of damage output.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Then again, that was with a weapon finesse Jedi, and almost nothing could hurt him with his stupid high ac. I imagine it would have been harder had I played a strength build. Now I'm considering if I should play a walking electrical socket of a sith, or go back and play the original KOTOR. I never actually played through the game past a planet or two because some jerkass spoiled the fucking reveal for me. Before I knew it the second game was out and I didn't go back.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Other than that, it wasn't.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
It was a much worse game. Wait, no, I'm sorry, I thought you asked why KotOR was worse than KotOR 2.
Really the only thing KotOR has going for it is its lack of bugs, its completed ending, and the funny voices the fish people talk in. And the bug/feature? where Juhani was a lesbian, which I guess was kind of funny.
It depends when you stopped playing. There were some twists, I guess, but they weren't quite as gimmicky as the whole
thing. Instead they were discoveries about the various characters and about the story that fit in organically with the narrative and made it that much more compelling and deep.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
The big twist was...
Anyway, I'm in the camp that KotoR 2 was worse then KotoR. This is because I wanted another Star Wars RPG, and KotoR2 is decidedly Non-Star Wars in its themes and presentation. Don't get me wrong, I loved KotoR 2, its got one hell of an interesting story and a bunch of interesting characters, its just I find that they really don't fit Star Wars.
That seems to be the real difference between Bioware and Obsidian's take on KOTOR: Bioware is pretty much just lifting 90% of their material straight from the films (The Old Republic MMO is even worse in this regard), whereas Obsidian is telling an original story set in the Star Wars universe.
In a way, I think KOTOR II has more of what I'm looking for in a Star Wars game, in that it's a meditation on the force, on Jedi, and on the other ideas that form the very core of Star Wars, rather than just endless riffs on adventure movies wrapped in a Star Wars-flavored coating. Because honestly, what about KOTOR was Star Warsy? The lightsabers could just as easily have been swords (and in fact they often were), the blasters could have been guns, etc. The planets they took from the movies were Star Warsy, sure, but most of the game could have been replaced with some generic sci-fi universe (which is the route they went in Mass Effect).
Could you replace everything in KOTOR II with a generic sci-fi universe? No way! The Jedi and the Force and the Dark Side vs. the Light Side, the Sith vs. the Jedi, are the entire basis of the story. Most of KOTOR's narrative force comes from being a douchebag or a totally sweet dude, and the twist. Jade Empire does the same thing. In KOTOR II it's the characters and the relationships among them, and those are inextricably linked with Star Wars in a way that the stuff in KOTOR wasn't.
Plus it's not like they got rid of the lightsabers or the blasters or the robots. They even had a Zabrak with a remote and a Hutt crime lord and bounty hunters and so on. It certainly wasn't lacking in Star Wars-ness, I'd say.
I know there are neckbeards that get up in arms every time the Jedi vs Sith, Light vs Dark stuff doesn't play out in an incredibly predictable and by this point extremely stale manner, but to me the entire point of setting up that supposed objective dichotomy in the setting is to play with it. KotOR2 does that very, very well.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
When standing still, and with a sufficient Closed Fist score, your character's shadow will sprout writhing tentacles. I didn't see that till maybe my third time through, completely by accident, and it freaked me the fuck out.
Anyway, KoTOR does epic narrative while KoTOR II determinedly avoids epic. Direct comparisons are kind of silly without acknowledging their different goals. Plus, I'm not really sure how you can say KoTOR takes 90% of the things from the films but then isn't Star Wars-y, or that the twist isn't plausible considering they wanted the old era so they could do new things; Jolee is also fairly unorthodox in that he's a very reasonable advocate of balanced interpretation instead of the canonically zealous 'anything dark side is corruption no matter what.'
KoTOR II has better writing because it can contemplate broader concepts in a more realistic way, which I'm a big fan of and why I like the sequel better, but I also appreciate that we had two great games, as evidenced by their mass popularity (II has a slightly lower MC user score, but that's in part because many people experienced it in messy form) among RPG fans (so spare me the CoD comparisons).