You know what Co-op bothers me? Dragon Age Legends. When dudes use my warrior, I want to get some experience from it, damnit! And the limit on using friends' characters once every few hours is silly.
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HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
Who out there actually has anything positive to say about this kind of gimped co-op? What would possess a game designer to create a 2-player experience like this?
Diablo 2 had 8-player co-op with persistent characters eleven years ago.
What is their goddamn problem?
Some people just refuse to learn. It seems so obvious, but there are those that appear to be willfully ignorant of basic fundamentals in games.
I'm honestly baffled how this got through into the game build. Who the fuck plays a dungeon crawler in which playing it doesn't allow your character to obtain wealth, gear, or experience. That is the primary function of playing a dungeon crawler. How could that be overlooked or flat out ignored.
lets take basic principles from the most successful co-op dungeon crawl ever by a large magnitude and not include them in our game.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
the dungeon siege games were always filled with this kind of stupid bullshit when it comes to multiplayer
diablo 2's leveling mechanics and game structure were almost all based on playing it over battle.net, and then the single player aspects were fleshed out from that model
most other action RPGs seem to approach it the other way around, so you can get a competent single player but then things just fall apart when you want to play with friends, or lord help you, the general public
That's a good point. So many action RPGs have had pretty terrible multiplayer to be honest. While it isn't as bad as this, look at how clunky multiplayer is for Borderlands.
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ArtreusI'm a wizardAnd that looks fucked upRegistered Userregular
That's a good point. So many action RPGs have had pretty terrible multiplayer to be honest. While it isn't as bad as this, look at how clunky multiplayer is for Borderlands.
Yeah it is so clunky. If borderlands 2, assuming there will be one, fixes that, it would be fantastic. And I just won't play it on somebody elses console, because I don't want to play borderlands without getting all the cool weapons for myself.
New Vegas was simply not as good as Fallout 3, despite some improvements to the game mechanics, and Obsidian failed to fix or improve on many of the game crippling bugs that were present in FO3. Oh and New Vegas had a whole slew of new bugs as well.
New Vegas improved a lot more than just game mechanics but yeah they really shit the bed in the bug department. At least Fallout 3 was playable on 360.
New Vegas was simply not as good as Fallout 3, despite some improvements to the game mechanics, and Obsidian failed to fix or improve on many of the game crippling bugs that were present in FO3. Oh and New Vegas had a whole slew of new bugs as well.
It wasn't perfect by any means but I enjoyed NV a hell of a lot more than Fallout 3. Despite the wall-to-wall bugs and weirdness it just... felt better, somehow. Look at me supplying an enlightening critique
But ruining co-op like this by removing your partner's advancement/loot? That's just baffling. On the plus side, I'm sure it's something that could be addressed with a patch if they got their act together
Even the first Dungeon Siege had fuller co-op functionality. Weird design choice
Didn't Dungeon Siege 1 and 2 revolve around actual co-op with teams of your friends, fighting, leveling up, obtaining loot together? I specifically remember doing that with my friends in the previous 2 games.
So this is a step backwards. They actually took out a feature that was present in the previous two games? Who made that decision?
I played the demo and it seems like they just want to make an average single player RPG and call it Dungeon Siege.
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Didn't Dungeon Siege 1 and 2 revolve around actual co-op with teams of your friends, fighting, leveling up, obtaining loot together? I specifically remember doing that with my friends in the previous 2 games.
So this is a step backwards. They actually took out a feature that was present in the previous two games? Who made that decision?
I played the demo and it seems like they just want to make an average single player RPG and call it Dungeon Siege.
I believe the first two games were created by Gas Powered Games, and were only for PC.
This latest one is done by Obsidian and it's multiplatform for consoles as well, so it's not as simple to make it multiplayer-friendly, and really from the design it sounds like the multiplay was just "bolted on" to the single player campaign.
Really, it doesn't have much to do with the first two games.
Sometimes I jump into other people's games in Fable 3 and just start murdering all the citizens I can find.
Because hey, my character is evil.
when I was a guide for Everquest people would try to use this rationale when they were caught greifing other players.. "but I'm evil.. see I'm role-playing.."
yeah, I would summon their character to the middle of the ocean where they would get eaten by sharks... "oh ok, me too".
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Sometimes I jump into other people's games in Fable 3 and just start murdering all the citizens I can find.
Because hey, my character is evil.
when I was a guide for Everquest people would try to use this rationale when they were caught greifing other players.. "but I'm evil.. see I'm role-playing.."
yeah, I would summon their character to the middle of the ocean where they would get eaten by sharks... "oh ok, me too".
I think killing citizens in other people's games doesn't have any kind of real impact, though.
Sometimes I jump into other people's games in Fable 3 and just start murdering all the citizens I can find.
Because hey, my character is evil.
when I was a guide for Everquest people would try to use this rationale when they were caught greifing other players.. "but I'm evil.. see I'm role-playing.."
yeah, I would summon their character to the middle of the ocean where they would get eaten by sharks... "oh ok, me too".
Sometimes I jump into other people's games in Fable 3 and just start murdering all the citizens I can find.
Because hey, my character is evil.
when I was a guide for Everquest people would try to use this rationale when they were caught greifing other players.. "but I'm evil.. see I'm role-playing.."
yeah, I would summon their character to the middle of the ocean where they would get eaten by sharks... "oh ok, me too".
I think killing citizens in other people's games doesn't have any kind of real impact, though.
Killing Citizens in your own game doesn't have much of an impact, except your next time through the people who spawned to replace the dead have a higher chance of running away from you.
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MalReynoldsThe Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicinesRegistered Userregular
I've been playing Secret of Mana again recently. 1993 had better co-op than 2011 does.
Except that it's kind of the exact same co-op that DSIII is running. You couldn't take your Secret of Mana character off the cart and take it back home with you, you could just jump in and help your buddies out.
It's essentially a cart-based co-op experience, but... online. Which is stupid.
If you have someone on a couch who can play the whole thing with you, the only thing they're really missing is cheevos, but outside of that, it's a very old school approach to the whole co-op thing. Reminds me a lot of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance/Champions of Norrath in that regard.
Not that it's not stupid.
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited June 2011
Man, I remember when 4 player games were a big deal on consoles. Very few games had them, and you had to get a special splitter to play. But it was always cool and fun. I'd play games I didn't even care for that much just to be able to play more than just two players. Like Madden 96.
Sometimes I jump into other people's games in Fable 3 and just start murdering all the citizens I can find.
Because hey, my character is evil.
when I was a guide for Everquest people would try to use this rationale when they were caught greifing other players.. "but I'm evil.. see I'm role-playing.."
yeah, I would summon their character to the middle of the ocean where they would get eaten by sharks... "oh ok, me too".
well, I can only assume that it's a step up from (pretty sure) fable 2's co-op, where it didn't even let the second player use their character. everything else seems to fit though.
Yes, you can assume that.
You'd be wrong, though.
so dungeon siege 3 also doesn't let you use your own character as the second player?
Man, I remember when 4 player games were a big deal on consoles. Very few games had them, and you had to get a special splitter to play. But it was always cool and fun. I'd play games I didn't even care for that much just to be able to play more than just two players. Like Madden 96.
I remember one... was it nightmare on elm street? I think that's what it was. too bad the game was pretty shitty.
that and the powerpad but those didn't take controllers
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Caulk Bite 6One of the multitude of Dans infesting this placeRegistered Userregular
Man, I remember when 4 player games were a big deal on consoles. Very few games had them, and you had to get a special splitter to play. But it was always cool and fun. I'd play games I didn't even care for that much just to be able to play more than just two players. Like Madden 96.
I remember one... was it nightmare on elm street? I think that's what it was. too bad the game was pretty shitty.
that and the powerpad but those didn't take controllers
I had the splitter for Super Bomerman. that was fun times.
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Lord DaveGrief CauserBitch Free ZoneRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Tycho quoted the new Weird Al album at the bottom of the newspost
What a nerd
For my money NV had nice gameplay revisions and overall better characters and writing, but FO3 had better story and atmosphere.
But there have been plenty of threads to have the Fo3/NV debate in.
I literally cannot fathom the idea that FO3 had a better story.
It's almost identical to the plot of FO2 wrt to the Enclave but with a Brotherhood of Steel that acts nothing like the Brotherhood of Steel so people could have an obvious good guy to side with, and a Dad who you decide to help even if you're a ravenous monster who devours the flesh of the fallen. Shit at least in New Vegas you can side with the Legion if you're super negative karma and it'll make sense.
Oh and I like how the Super Mutant thing never got any resolution, like it was just out and out forgotten.
As for Dungeon Siege though, I imagine it's the same issue as Neverwinter Nights 2, the base campaign that is. It's a case of Obsidian trying to be something it's not.
To be fair, no one had any reason to think that was a Weird Al thread without first knowing not only that a new album was coming, but also knowing what the album was called.
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
To be fair, no one had any reason to think that was a Weird Al thread without first knowing not only that a new album was coming, but also knowing what the album was called.
It was named a few other things before that. Most people instantly figured it out when it was called "War. Pestilence. Famine. Polka."
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Der Waffle MousBlame this on the misfortune of your birth.New Yark, New Yark.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Well, at least this time it isn't a good series that obsidian is screwing up.
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Some people just refuse to learn. It seems so obvious, but there are those that appear to be willfully ignorant of basic fundamentals in games.
I'm honestly baffled how this got through into the game build. Who the fuck plays a dungeon crawler in which playing it doesn't allow your character to obtain wealth, gear, or experience. That is the primary function of playing a dungeon crawler. How could that be overlooked or flat out ignored.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Because hey, my character is evil.
diablo 2's leveling mechanics and game structure were almost all based on playing it over battle.net, and then the single player aspects were fleshed out from that model
most other action RPGs seem to approach it the other way around, so you can get a competent single player but then things just fall apart when you want to play with friends, or lord help you, the general public
Yeah it is so clunky. If borderlands 2, assuming there will be one, fixes that, it would be fantastic. And I just won't play it on somebody elses console, because I don't want to play borderlands without getting all the cool weapons for myself.
New Vegas improved a lot more than just game mechanics but yeah they really shit the bed in the bug department. At least Fallout 3 was playable on 360.
although they still managed to get as many things wrong with Guild Wars as they got right
It wasn't perfect by any means but I enjoyed NV a hell of a lot more than Fallout 3. Despite the wall-to-wall bugs and weirdness it just... felt better, somehow. Look at me supplying an enlightening critique
But ruining co-op like this by removing your partner's advancement/loot? That's just baffling. On the plus side, I'm sure it's something that could be addressed with a patch if they got their act together
Even the first Dungeon Siege had fuller co-op functionality. Weird design choice
But there have been plenty of threads to have the Fo3/NV debate in.
So this is a step backwards. They actually took out a feature that was present in the previous two games? Who made that decision?
I played the demo and it seems like they just want to make an average single player RPG and call it Dungeon Siege.
I believe the first two games were created by Gas Powered Games, and were only for PC.
This latest one is done by Obsidian and it's multiplatform for consoles as well, so it's not as simple to make it multiplayer-friendly, and really from the design it sounds like the multiplay was just "bolted on" to the single player campaign.
Really, it doesn't have much to do with the first two games.
when I was a guide for Everquest people would try to use this rationale when they were caught greifing other players.. "but I'm evil.. see I'm role-playing.."
yeah, I would summon their character to the middle of the ocean where they would get eaten by sharks... "oh ok, me too".
I think killing citizens in other people's games doesn't have any kind of real impact, though.
That reminds me of Fansy the bard
Killing Citizens in your own game doesn't have much of an impact, except your next time through the people who spawned to replace the dead have a higher chance of running away from you.
Except that it's kind of the exact same co-op that DSIII is running. You couldn't take your Secret of Mana character off the cart and take it back home with you, you could just jump in and help your buddies out.
It's essentially a cart-based co-op experience, but... online. Which is stupid.
If you have someone on a couch who can play the whole thing with you, the only thing they're really missing is cheevos, but outside of that, it's a very old school approach to the whole co-op thing. Reminds me a lot of Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance/Champions of Norrath in that regard.
Not that it's not stupid.
"Readers who prefer tension and romance, Maledictions: The Offering, delivers... As serious YA fiction, I’ll give it five stars out of five. As a novel? Four and a half." - Liz Ellor
My new novel: Maledictions: The Offering. Now in Paperback!
Oh hey a new staff for my wizard. Oh. Ok, I need 45 Strength to use it. Ok, let's see here. Only way to raise Strength is...Ok. Melee combat. Hmm.
Oh hey a new bow for my archer. Must have Intelligence 56? Hmmm.
Oh hey a new sword for my etc etc etc Uninstall.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
The first thing I thought of was the guild in EQ that got raided during an in-game funeral, but all I can find is references to it happening in WoW...
Also, holy shit I remember #5 from this, ah EQ...
edit: I don't read anything I post, ever.
so dungeon siege 3 also doesn't let you use your own character as the second player?
luckily I was guide on a non PVP server, but of course people still found ways to fuck with other players..
(aaand then they found themselves in the middle of the ocean surrounded by sharks 15 levels higher than them...)
is this a real thing? I mean.. they made 2 other games that didn't do this so where would they get the idea
I remember one... was it nightmare on elm street? I think that's what it was. too bad the game was pretty shitty.
that and the powerpad but those didn't take controllers
I had the splitter for Super Bomerman. that was fun times.
What a nerd
It's made by a different developer. And Obsidian sabotages every game because they're terrified of success.
I literally cannot fathom the idea that FO3 had a better story.
It's almost identical to the plot of FO2 wrt to the Enclave but with a Brotherhood of Steel that acts nothing like the Brotherhood of Steel so people could have an obvious good guy to side with, and a Dad who you decide to help even if you're a ravenous monster who devours the flesh of the fallen. Shit at least in New Vegas you can side with the Legion if you're super negative karma and it'll make sense.
Oh and I like how the Super Mutant thing never got any resolution, like it was just out and out forgotten.
As for Dungeon Siege though, I imagine it's the same issue as Neverwinter Nights 2, the base campaign that is. It's a case of Obsidian trying to be something it's not.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Tycho's newspost makes me REALLY fucking want a new Descent game.
easily my favorite shooter series ever.
I think he's done that for the last couple albums.
Umm..
It was named a few other things before that. Most people instantly figured it out when it was called "War. Pestilence. Famine. Polka."