Basically they're already pushing the limits of the ps3 and 360, so it can't take rollbacks.
The Capcom guy at the East Coast Showdown had more to say than that. One big thing is that their "netcode issues" they don't experience in Japan because their internet is way better. I don't know much about GGPO but I don't see how it could really help solve issues involving a high-amount of data transfer and limited bandwidth which is the root of the problem here.
there's no reason to play [insert character] when you have [insert top tier character] right there
also, every fighting game ever in a nutshell
Walt on
0
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
It's not really a high amount of data transfer, or limited bandwidth that's the problem.
You're barely transmitting any information at all (just your button inputs), but it needs to be sent with very low latency, and being even a few tenths of a second behind will fuck things up (SFIV operates at 60 frames/second for its gameplay mechanics, if you're 2/10ths of a second behind you can lose up to 12 frames worth of inputs, which is a crouching LP for most characters).
GGPO works in 2D games by "buffering" latency into frames of animation that work as the start up and recovery frames for an executed move. If the GGPO system detects that a lag spike has affected gameplay, it can cut out those inactive frames to help keep the system in sync, "rolling back" your inputs into the game.
The problem with 3D games is that the animation system doesn't work the same way at all, since the computer is now calculating all the 'tweening' frames between major key frames of animation. You can't safely cut frames in the same fashion without screwing up either how the characters move, or worse, their positions in relation to one another (and risk de-syncing the game in the process, so that two players would see slightly different versions of the same match as they fought each other).
The only way to do it is to send ALL the computational data back and forth, which probably would be pushing a lot of bandwidth, and the additional packets probably would result in more latency than GGPO would compensate for anyway.
But yeah, as it is the backbone internet in Japan is so low-latency that you're only getting a few ms worth of lag anyway, so most players there agree that it's almost as good as playing offline.
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I don't like what Wolverine does to the game. Seems high level matches turn into which Wolverine player can hit the other play first, then x-factor, and then you automatically lose your first two characters.
come on now! That's Seth Killian! The Cloth Hand! The Face of Street Fighter!
(I love Seth)
Seth doing commentary with Chris Hu was fuckin amazing
When they had the MvC fight club event in Atlanta, there were some delays getting doors open, a lot of frustration with how the pseudo-tournament was being handled, and some bullshit about a VIP line and designated area for micro-celebrities that had nothing to do with vidja games. The Final Round guys that helped with the event were trying to be helpful, but most of the Capcom people were being kinda dicks to kids that tried to talk to them, except Seth who came out more than once to hang out with people in line and talk about AE and so on.
A group of like nine friends behind me in line were fucking star struck by the guy and kept whispering about him when he would walk by. He overheard them at one point and came up with a smirk all, "What're you guys talking about?" The guy proceeded to pose for a photo with each kid individually. Capcom did really well when they snagged him.
Aneurhythmia on
0
Sars_BoyRest, You Are The Lightning.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
i wanna get high with seth killian and play/talk about fighting games
You could probably balance Wolverine by either taking away Berserker Charge or his level 3 because it's total bullshit that he has both.
If they're willing to cut Sentinel's health in half, they should certainly be able to adjust the numbers on his XF. It'd be hilarious if he got no damage boost until level 3. But maybe they're concerned that there have been too many tournaments now to change things. Or maybe they'll save balancing 'til after Evo.
I don't like what Wolverine does to the game. Seems high level matches turn into which Wolverine player can hit the other play first, then x-factor, and then you automatically lose your first two characters.
Um... that's marvel?
Seriously whoever lands the first cr.L can turn that into a massive combo destroying your character.
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I don't mind X-factor damage being a boon for a character though because many have that. I just hate that Wolverine can do devastating damage off a long range hit confirm (thanks to Charge) and he can combo into a 440k dealing level 3.
I don't like what Wolverine does to the game. Seems high level matches turn into which Wolverine player can hit the other play first, then x-factor, and then you automatically lose your first two characters.
Um... that's marvel?
Seriously whoever lands the first cr.L can turn that into a massive combo destroying your character.
He's not lvl 3 xfactor dark phoenix broken.
That's not really accurate. Lots of characters can't touch-of-death in one combo or even to do so require precise execution.
come on now! That's Seth Killian! The Cloth Hand! The Face of Street Fighter!
(I love Seth)
Seth doing commentary with Chris Hu was fuckin amazing
When they had the MvC fight club event in Atlanta, there were some delays getting doors open, a lot of frustration with how the pseudo-tournament was being handled, and some bullshit about a VIP line and designated area for micro-celebrities that had nothing to do with vidja games. The Final Round guys that helped with the event were trying to be helpful, but most of the Capcom people were being kinda dicks to kids that tried to talk to them, except Seth who came out more than once to hang out with people in line and talk about AE and so on.
A group of like nine friends behind me in line were fucking star struck by the guy and kept whispering about him when he would walk by. He overheard them at one point and came up with a smirk all, "What're you guys talking about?" The guy proceeded to pose for a photo with each kid individually. Capcom did really well when they snagged him.
I can't think of a better spokesman for a videogame company than Seth - like if you look at the horrible clowns people get for E3 keynotes and press conferences, you have to wonder why Ubisoft keeps on using the likes of Mr Caffeine or Jaime Kennedy
Get someone who's a passionate player from your community that also has good public speaking and presentation skills. Then have him talk to the community about your games. You will get so much more credit and respect than hiring a c-list celebrity who clearly does not give a fuck about what's being presented and has no idea what he's talking about.
I don't like what Wolverine does to the game. Seems high level matches turn into which Wolverine player can hit the other play first, then x-factor, and then you automatically lose your first two characters.
Um... that's marvel?
Seriously whoever lands the first cr.L can turn that into a massive combo destroying your character.
He's not lvl 3 xfactor dark phoenix broken.
That's not really accurate. Lots of characters can't touch-of-death in one combo or even to do so require precise execution.
Lots of characters cant, or you (or anyone) just don't know how to yet? Many can and the argument about how easy or hard something is doesn't matter when you get to higher levels of play where everyone can nail down combos.
Wolverine really isn't that hard to zone out if you play smart against him. Berserker slash is very much unsafe on block and it can still be blocked even if you do a left/right mixup using an assist like arthur's daggers or taskmaster's H shot.
I don't really see the point of bitching about stuff. Games can be hard, some characters are hard to fight against. That's fine. Its one thing to say, "I have trouble fighting against this character" and its another to say "He's stupid because I don't know how to block his stuff."
Unless we're talking about ST-akuma levels of retarded don't waste your energy talking about how overpowered some characters are.
I don't mind X-factor damage being a boon for a character though because many have that. I just hate that Wolverine can do devastating damage off a long range hit confirm (thanks to Charge) and he can combo into a 440k dealing level 3.
In the context of what makes Wolverine a threat, his level 3 really just seems superfluous. Yeah, it seems a bit unfair that the guy gets four different hypers, but it's almost not worth the meter use with how fast Wolverine can continually pump out fatal claws. Getting hit with it certainly doesn't have the same having-your-face-shat-on feel that America's Favorite Combo does.
Aneurhythmia on
0
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I love how you think citing "high-level" play bolsters your argument while Wolverine and Phoenix teams completely dominate high-level play and have been for the past couple months. Also, high level players drop combos all the fucking time in MvC3.
I wish converting X-23's OTG with an assist wasn't such a fucking chore or limited to so few assists, because her feint loops don't work for shit online.
I love how you think citing "high-level" play bolsters your argument while Wolverine and Phoenix teams completely dominate high-level play and have been for the past couple months. Also, high level players drop combos all the fucking time in MvC3.
My point is that how difficult a combo is to execute has nothing to do with a character being broken.
I don't like what Wolverine does to the game. Seems high level matches turn into which Wolverine player can hit the other play first, then x-factor, and then you automatically lose your first two characters.
Um... that's marvel?
Seriously whoever lands the first cr.L can turn that into a massive combo destroying your character.
He's not lvl 3 xfactor dark phoenix broken.
That's not really accurate. Lots of characters can't touch-of-death in one combo or even to do so require precise execution.
Also.. for a game that's been out only a few months there's quite a few characters that can do 100% combos. A quick google search gives:
Posts
Why not yun for what
fuck yun
The Capcom guy at the East Coast Showdown had more to say than that. One big thing is that their "netcode issues" they don't experience in Japan because their internet is way better. I don't know much about GGPO but I don't see how it could really help solve issues involving a high-amount of data transfer and limited bandwidth which is the root of the problem here.
come on now! That's Seth Killian! The Cloth Hand! The Face of Street Fighter!
(I love Seth)
Seth doing commentary with Chris Hu was fuckin amazing
in no way is he ass
SteamID: Baroque And Roll
also, AE in a nutshell
You're barely transmitting any information at all (just your button inputs), but it needs to be sent with very low latency, and being even a few tenths of a second behind will fuck things up (SFIV operates at 60 frames/second for its gameplay mechanics, if you're 2/10ths of a second behind you can lose up to 12 frames worth of inputs, which is a crouching LP for most characters).
GGPO works in 2D games by "buffering" latency into frames of animation that work as the start up and recovery frames for an executed move. If the GGPO system detects that a lag spike has affected gameplay, it can cut out those inactive frames to help keep the system in sync, "rolling back" your inputs into the game.
The problem with 3D games is that the animation system doesn't work the same way at all, since the computer is now calculating all the 'tweening' frames between major key frames of animation. You can't safely cut frames in the same fashion without screwing up either how the characters move, or worse, their positions in relation to one another (and risk de-syncing the game in the process, so that two players would see slightly different versions of the same match as they fought each other).
The only way to do it is to send ALL the computational data back and forth, which probably would be pushing a lot of bandwidth, and the additional packets probably would result in more latency than GGPO would compensate for anyway.
But yeah, as it is the backbone internet in Japan is so low-latency that you're only getting a few ms worth of lag anyway, so most players there agree that it's almost as good as playing offline.
even if you had the bandwidth for it, using your bandwidth that way wouldn't make any sense or solve any problems
it's much more of a fundamental problem with how the engine works and how key frames are computed
It's the iron man magneto thing in marvel all over again
On paper iron man is okay, but magneto does every single thing im does, but way better
Yang is okay, but if you want to play high pressure divekick offense, why aren't you playing yun
Or rufus
Not that I play MVC3 or am particularly good at it.
I just like Iron Man.
Wolvie/Tasky/Dante now though!
touche
i hate playing him to, if anything for his divekick input
When they had the MvC fight club event in Atlanta, there were some delays getting doors open, a lot of frustration with how the pseudo-tournament was being handled, and some bullshit about a VIP line and designated area for micro-celebrities that had nothing to do with vidja games. The Final Round guys that helped with the event were trying to be helpful, but most of the Capcom people were being kinda dicks to kids that tried to talk to them, except Seth who came out more than once to hang out with people in line and talk about AE and so on.
A group of like nine friends behind me in line were fucking star struck by the guy and kept whispering about him when he would walk by. He overheard them at one point and came up with a smirk all, "What're you guys talking about?" The guy proceeded to pose for a photo with each kid individually. Capcom did really well when they snagged him.
that would be great times
If they're willing to cut Sentinel's health in half, they should certainly be able to adjust the numbers on his XF. It'd be hilarious if he got no damage boost until level 3. But maybe they're concerned that there have been too many tournaments now to change things. Or maybe they'll save balancing 'til after Evo.
Um... that's marvel?
Seriously whoever lands the first cr.L can turn that into a massive combo destroying your character.
He's not lvl 3 xfactor dark phoenix broken.
especially when it's not really that hard to do
Not really. Sagat was king of vanilla, but there were still reasons to play not-sagat
Yun and Yang are similar enough that picking the less good one seems silly
That's not really accurate. Lots of characters can't touch-of-death in one combo or even to do so require precise execution.
I can't think of a better spokesman for a videogame company than Seth - like if you look at the horrible clowns people get for E3 keynotes and press conferences, you have to wonder why Ubisoft keeps on using the likes of Mr Caffeine or Jaime Kennedy
Get someone who's a passionate player from your community that also has good public speaking and presentation skills. Then have him talk to the community about your games. You will get so much more credit and respect than hiring a c-list celebrity who clearly does not give a fuck about what's being presented and has no idea what he's talking about.
Lots of characters cant, or you (or anyone) just don't know how to yet? Many can and the argument about how easy or hard something is doesn't matter when you get to higher levels of play where everyone can nail down combos.
Wolverine really isn't that hard to zone out if you play smart against him. Berserker slash is very much unsafe on block and it can still be blocked even if you do a left/right mixup using an assist like arthur's daggers or taskmaster's H shot.
I don't really see the point of bitching about stuff. Games can be hard, some characters are hard to fight against. That's fine. Its one thing to say, "I have trouble fighting against this character" and its another to say "He's stupid because I don't know how to block his stuff."
Unless we're talking about ST-akuma levels of retarded don't waste your energy talking about how overpowered some characters are.
In the context of what makes Wolverine a threat, his level 3 really just seems superfluous. Yeah, it seems a bit unfair that the guy gets four different hypers, but it's almost not worth the meter use with how fast Wolverine can continually pump out fatal claws. Getting hit with it certainly doesn't have the same having-your-face-shat-on feel that America's Favorite Combo does.
My point is that how difficult a combo is to execute has nothing to do with a character being broken.
Also.. for a game that's been out only a few months there's quite a few characters that can do 100% combos. A quick google search gives:
Dante
Hulk
Spencer
Magneto
...and other nonsense can be seen here
With x-factor 100% combos are easy for lots of characters. I'm not sure what game you've been playing...