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[Sonic the Hedgehog] New Sonic All-Stars Racing trailer... with Afterburner stage!

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Posts

  • SkyEyeSkyEye Registered User regular
    Someone had to post it eventually, so,
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    Steam: Autumn_Thunder - SC2: AutumnThundr.563 (NA) - Hearthstone: AutumnThundr.1383

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    I still contend that SA2 is a mediocre game.

    I think you're being generous
    Well, it's been 10 years since I played it. Well, probably eight or nine since I played the Gamecube version.

    But I remember Sonic/Shadow stages being fun, if very linear. Tails/Eggman were decent for the most part. Knuckles/Rogue were basically distilled anti-fun. A terrible camera plagued all three types of stages. Which didn't matter terribly for Sonic/Shadow until you wanted to grab collectibles for the Chao Garden (I think?).

    I beat it at any rate. Now, I will say that I haven't ever played SA1. I was very jealous of my friend's Dreamcast; even to a point where I think I overrated games that weren't good. Like, Sonic Shuffle seemed decent when we played it. But SA1 was something I never played since it wasn't really a multiplayer game. And, you know, a bit rude to head to a friend's place just to play single-player games. Anyways, I have this bad habit of playing inferior sequels first, so maybe SA1 did some awesome stuff and SA2 failed to live up to that. I wouldn't know!

    The Sonic and Shadow stages are indeed fun, but they make up about 1/3 of the game. The problem with Sonic Adventure 2 is that every single bit of the game is done sloppier than Sonic Adventure 1. Sonic Adventure 2 had terrible shooting segments, and awful emerald hunting segments, both of which felt tedious and unenjoyable. The Sonic and Shadow stages in Sonic Adventure 2 are fun, but they're more spread out with long running sections, with less platforming than Sonic Adventure 1. And none of the problems with controls from SA1 were really fixed.

    It all feels like a big sloppy mess. And the worst part was that SA2's biggest contribution to the Sonic series was the melodramatic plots. SA1 felt like a sonic game - the story bits in between were basically just describing where the bad guy came from, and giving you excuses to go to the next stage ("Oh no, I need this key, which is in ICE CAP ZONE!"). SA2 had this bullshit story involving the president of the united states and biochemical monsters and blah blah blah. It only got worse from there on out.

    SA1 still has charm. It's rough around the edges, but it feels like a sonic game. And by that I mean that Sonic goes through every single level in the game - no other character does that. The other characters, unlike with SA2, are actually playing in Sonic's levels. So, to a large degree, they have to feel somewhat similar to Sonic the hedgehog. Tails, for example, is a straight up Sonic clone, as is Knuckles, who can glide and dig. So while you're tearing up a level as Sonic or Tails, you're searching a level methodically with Amy or Knuckles.

    In short, it felt like a rough 3D expansion of the system used from Sonic & Knuckles. Sonic Adventure 2 is what I felt was the start of the decline of the series until Sonic Unleashed, which finally freed itself from that mold.

    I don't really like SA2, although I'll replay the Sonic and Shadow stages occasionally.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    BTW I told everyone pages ago that Classic Tails is in the game. Classic Knuckles and Classic Amy are also in the game.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    A lot of Knuckles hate going on here. Other than Aquatic Mine because underwater sections suck forever, I still contend he almost outclasses Sonic in that game.

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  • plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    Sonic Adventure 2 didn't have any Big the Cat fishing.

    That is a huge point in its favor.

    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
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  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    It all feels like a big sloppy mess. And the worst part was that SA2's biggest contribution to the Sonic series was the melodramatic plots. SA1 felt like a sonic game - the story bits in between were basically just describing where the bad guy came from, and giving you excuses to go to the next stage ("Oh no, I need this key, which is in ICE CAP ZONE!"). SA2 had this bullshit story involving the president of the united states and biochemical monsters and blah blah blah. It only got worse from there on out.

    SA1 still has charm. It's rough around the edges, but it feels like a sonic game. And by that I mean that Sonic goes through every single level in the game - no other character does that. The other characters, unlike with SA2, are actually playing in Sonic's levels. So, to a large degree, they have to feel somewhat similar to Sonic the hedgehog. Tails, for example, is a straight up Sonic clone, as is Knuckles, who can glide and dig. So while you're tearing up a level as Sonic or Tails, you're searching a level methodically with Amy or Knuckles.

    In short, it felt like a rough 3D expansion of the system used from Sonic & Knuckles. Sonic Adventure 2 is what I felt was the start of the decline of the series until Sonic Unleashed, which finally freed itself from that mold.

    Sonic Adventure kinda feels like a Sonic game, in some Sonic stages. I haven't finished the game yet, but I feel like I've spent about as much time running around between stages and playing minigames than I've spent playing a Sonic game. Emerald Coast, Speed Highway, Red Mountain, and the snowboarding part of Ice Cap are all pretty great, but I sort of wish the whole game had been like that. I guess Sky Deck was pretty fun. But a lot of other things just feel like a tech demo.

    1: "Oh, hey! I know guys. Let's put in mandatory pinball and on-rails shooting segments! We should also make the temple with switches and panels and things, so it plays like Zelda, except harder to control. Put in some random mirrors, too. How will people know we have a next-gen console if our game doesn't have mirrors in it?"
    2: "But sir, won't putting in all those random gameplay mechanics take away from time we could be spending making more levels or ensuring that the player isn't dying due to random bugs?"
    1 (glares): "..."
    2: "Mirrors! And kart racing! Everyone loves kart racing."

  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    In retrospect, I enjoyed the Knux levels in SA2 more than the Tails levels.

    That might have been down to Knux's thugged out soundtrack though.

    UNH, YO IN PUNKIN HILL. YOU READY!? LESS GO.

    Oh brilliant
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I feel like anyone defending the Knuckles levels are suffering from some sort of digital stockholm's.

    The stages give you any pleasure at all, and you find yourself glossing over previous atrocities. This begins the warped bonds that makes me wonder what on earth is wrong with you people.

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  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    My name is Knuckles.

    Unlike Sonic, I dont chuckle...s.

    PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Tha new porky pie on da block wit da puff chess.

    Honestly, the Knuckles stages are more fun to me than the Tails stages. Maybe it's down to Knuckles having decent speed and flight, whereas Tails levels feel like such a long slog through dull levels.

    Plus, Knuckles levels are by far the easiest to A-Rank, so if you don't like them, you'll only ever need to play them once anyway.

    Oh brilliant
  • Quake MattQuake Matt Registered User regular
    For the most part, I didn't mind the Knuckles levels too much. The slightly sedated pace of the exploration just didn't fit a Sonic game very well.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I disagree. Traditional Sonic games were platformers first. Speed was a complimentary element much in the same way as Mario's powerups. The games were willing to eschew speed for some platforming.

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  • Quake MattQuake Matt Registered User regular
    Except that the Knuckles stages didn't eschew speed for platforming; they eschewed it for plodding about on the ground or gliding whistfully around and admiring the scenery.

    Perhaps 'sedated' isn't the right word. Relaxed, maybe? Outside of mostly-frustrating attempts to get the A ranks, there wasn't a great sense of urgency to those sections. I can quite enjoy exploration-based games, but I don't think that the Sonic universe is a good place to set them!

  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    BTW I told everyone pages ago that Classic Tails is in the game. Classic Knuckles and Classic Amy are also in the game.

    So then they have to have classic Eggman too.

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    You mean Robotn- AHAAA, can you imagine if I was like that?

    Even more annoying than I am now.

    Oh brilliant
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote:
    BTW I told everyone pages ago that Classic Tails is in the game. Classic Knuckles and Classic Amy are also in the game.

    So then they have to have classic Eggman too.
    agoaj wrote:
    BTW I told everyone pages ago that Classic Tails is in the game. Classic Knuckles and Classic Amy are also in the game.

    So then they have to have classic Eggman too.

    They've already shown off Classic Robotnik

    He looks just like the 16-bit games.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote:
    BTW I told everyone pages ago that Classic Tails is in the game. Classic Knuckles and Classic Amy are also in the game.

    So then they have to have classic Eggman too.
    agoaj wrote:
    BTW I told everyone pages ago that Classic Tails is in the game. Classic Knuckles and Classic Amy are also in the game.

    So then they have to have classic Eggman too.

    They've already shown off Classic Robotnik

    He looks just like the 16-bit games.

    They have? I did a few Google searches and came up empty.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    He's on the end of level signpost in the demo.

    Oh brilliant
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    He's on the end of level signpost in the demo.

    I thought that was new [strike]Robotnik[/strike] Eggman? Ah well, guess I was moving too fast to see it.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    imFY8M.png

    :3

    Oh brilliant
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Also, Track Three of my thang;

    Oh brilliant
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    He's on the end of level signpost in the demo.

    He was directly shown off in the 3DS version, in an actual boss battle.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Also, worth a mention:

    Sonic Generations official Tails render:
    tailso.png

    Sonic Advance 3 character select screen:
    231pxadvance3tails.png

    The classic render of Tails is also taken from a piece of promotional art for Sonic 2, but I can't find the exact image ATM.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    On that note, goddamn it's great to see Classic Tails again. As a kid, he was by far my favorite character. He was always so adorable in all the official artwork for the classic sonic games.

    Really, he's changed the least out of all the sonic characters, but seeing his 1992 version right beside the modern version makes the small changes noticeable. Classic Tails is timeless, just like Classic Sonic.

    I love that his mouth is centered again, just like it was on all the old promotional art.

  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    It's kind of surprising how much better the classic designs look compared to the modern ones when rendered up in hi res CG and put side by side. Much more iconic and uncluttered in design.

    I wonder if it's really just bias attached to what each represents.

    -SPI- on
  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    He's on the end of level signpost in the demo.

    He was directly shown off in the 3DS version, in an actual boss battle.

    Wait, in a video, or a demo? Is there a link?

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    -SPI- wrote:
    It's kind of surprising how much better the classic designs look compared to the modern ones when rendered up in hi res CG and put side by side. Much more iconic and uncluttered in design.

    I wonder if it's really just bias attached to what each represents.

    Naw, the classic designs adhere to the guidelines disney and other animation greats use. They really are timeless designs. It's the same reason Mickey Mouse from 1920 still looks good today.
    cloudeagle wrote:
    He's on the end of level signpost in the demo.

    He was directly shown off in the 3DS version, in an actual boss battle.

    Wait, in a video, or a demo? Is there a link?


    TheSonicRetard on
  • AaronKIAaronKI Registered User regular
    Does that mean Launch Base is in the 3DS version?

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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    AaronKI wrote:
    Does that mean Launch Base is in the 3DS version?

    not necessarily

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I honestly don't have a ton of problems with the modern designs. I actually love the character art for SA1, and still remember it when I opened magazines for SA1 reviews.

    Nonetheless, they have done a stellar job at bringing the classic designs into 3D.

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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    I honestly don't have a ton of problems with the modern designs. I actually love the character art for SA1, and still remember it when I opened magazines for SA1 reviews.

    Nonetheless, they have done a stellar job at bringing the classic designs into 3D.

    Well the SA1 character designs are actually more akin to classic sonic than modern sonic when talking about in-game designs. Sonic Adventure 2 onward is what really changed the way the characters looked. Knuckles and Tails actually got off lightly, they changed very little. Sonic changed massively from SA2 onward, and Amy got a complete redesign in SA1. Personally, I always liked classic Amy better.

    That said, the art direction in this game is magnificent. They've actually dusted off the old character model sheets they used to use for the Genesis games when drawing art and sprites, to keep all the proportions and such the same:

    classictails.png

    That's from Sonic 2, and they're using it for Sonic Generations.

    The best word to describe Sonic Generations' art style is "wonderful." It really is. to say nothing else of the quality of the game (which I'm obviously in favor of), the art style is easily the most charming and wonderful sonic has looked... well, ever. Sonic Generations is a sonic fan's wet dream at this point. I can't wait to see how the rest of the game looks. The textures for Sky Sanctuary Zone paint an image of a lost ruins sort of level. I love that the art style of this game is a blend of the cartoony nature of the old games, with the hyperrealism, almost photo-realistic qualities of the modern games. It really captures the surrealist nature of the classic games stunningly. The shot with Sonic coming out of the Megamack from the latest batch of screenshots looks real. It doesn't look like a game. It looks like a photo someone snapped of a bunch of little plastic action figures. And that is awesome.

  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    I was thinking today about the reception this game might get, and the general perception people have of modern Sonic games. People don't really realize how fixed Sonic is now. A lot of the problems that made Sonic games like 2006 annoying are long gone now. When you play Sonic Unleashed, or Sonic Colors, or Sonic Generations, the game is complete. All the mechanics work. They're glitch free.

    The current game model for Sonic, the one that began in Sonic Unleashed, it is actually a lot different from the Sonic Adventure games. After Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic kinda when schizophrenic, and it seemed like every single game played completely differently than the last. Since Sonic Unleashed, Sega has come out and hunkered down, and committed. Iizuka has even said THIS is what Sonic is in 3D. The decade of searching for a formula to call Sonic in 3D is over, what we saw in the day stages of Unleashed, and in Colors, and in Generations, that's it. That's what all future 3D sonic games will be like.

    This is GOOD for a number of reasons. First, that style of gameplay is an absolute blast to play. I really liked Sonic Adventure 1. Adventure 2? Not so much. By the time heroes rolled around the mechanics felt stale - it felt like an early N64 style platformer. Constant camera problems that seemed to get worse each game. Glitches and bugs like falling through the floor, or scripted segments flat out not working. Stuff like that. These sort of glitches persisted and grew worse because Sega kept trying to start from the ground up with each game, and thus they never really had a chance to fix any of their problems. By the time Sonic 2006 came along, it was a mixmash of 5 years worth of ideas that just didn't work.

    Unleashed wiped the slate clean, and gave them a new template to work with. More impressively, with Unleashed, they seemed to figure out a lot of why certain mechanics didn't work. Rails, for example - lots of people hate them, but they don't really know WHY they hate them. The concept of a rail isn't actually bad - it's a forced forward segment, which has always been in the series. The reason rails used to suck, is because the platforming is derived from switching from one rail to another. In the old games, this meant you had to jump from rail to rail, and because of the wonky controls and physics, this meant a lot of accidental deaths. But Unleashed fixed this, by creating what is called Lane Switching. In 3D Sonic, you can now shift 1 lane left and right by either using the triggers (in unleashed and generations) or flicking the stick (in colors). This applies to rails as well, so if you need to move to the rail which is right beside you, you just hit the trigger and bam, you're moved. Absolutely no way you can fail unless you're flat out not good enough.

    Lane switching also lead to the refinement of the so-called "run forward" segments. In the old 3D sonic games, it was a legitimate complaint that there would be segments where you had to simply hold forward and run, while you got a nice visual treat. But the mechanics of the old games really prevented the level designers with presenting any real challenge during these segments. If they included enemies, you'd have to slow down to attack them, which didn't jive with the whole "running fast" portion of such segments. If they included obstacles, you were almost assuredly going to mess up because the old games didn't allow for fast twitch movement. Lane switching has solved that. During these segments where you're moving forward, you'll encounter some of the best fast-twitch reflex gaming around.

    Even staples of the old games have been refined and fixed, like the homing attack. The addition of a reticle really has taken the confusion out of the system. I think most people forgot how confusing the homing attack used to be. In old games, if you weren't "locked on" you'd shoot to your death. Sonic Unleashed made it impossible to not know when to attack, and then Sonic Colors took it a step further. Now it's impossible to accidentally shoot off to your death - if you hit jump and you're not locked on, you double jump!

    And that's the exact reason why them sticking to one formula is so great - REFINEMENT. Each game under this system has improved, as has the level design. I talked about how lane switching provides great reflex gaming, but in Unleashed it was relentless. The best example of this was in Adabat:



    at the very beginning. The challenge comes from how many lane switches there are. For me, as a person with great fast reflexes, I love it. I love to go as fast as I can and have to make all these crazy changes. But there is no room for error, in that game if you fucked up, you died. By when they tried again in Sonic Colors:



    If you mess up, you just fall to another lower part of the level. Which is where they're improving the most - the level design. Sonic Team is getting better, and better, and better at working with these types of levels. Without needing to create the entire game from the ground up every single time, and without needing to devote 90% of the game's development to bug testing and fixing giant problems like the camera, they're free to let their creativity flourish.

    If you played unleashed, you know that the level design got better as the game went along. What you may not know is that after unleashed released, Sega released a TON of DLC for the game. This DLC felt more experimental in approach than the normal levels. They were full zones, but they tried a bunch of stuff they never tried in the main game. It was them basically publically testing what would, and wouldn't work in the confines of their engine. Some of those levels, btw, were brilliant:





    I have a LOT of confidence in the modern stages for Generations. I've been following the current model of Sonic since Unleashed, and I've absolutely loved everything they've put out in that model so far. Each game they are getting better. A lot of classic series seem to hit absolute best stride by their third game - Super Mario 3 pretty much was the pinnacle of 2D mario, all other mario games have been highly derivative of it. Mario Galaxy is pretty much the pinnacle of 3D mario, all 3D marios since have been derivative. Sonic 3&Knuckles was pretty much the epic conclusion to the genesis series.

    This is the 3rd "3D" sonic game. What they've shown me before has been incredible. That they're also including a full 2D classic sonic game on top is an incredible bonus. I cannot see any single way Sonic Generations can fail. I really do, knock on wood, think Sega has it completely right this time.

  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    Yeah, I started to play Sonic Colors and man, that game is so good. It's Sonic, but without all of the BS. It's just Sonic levels.

    Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
  • FremFrem Registered User regular
    The shot with Sonic coming out of the Megamack from the latest batch of screenshots looks real. It doesn't look like a game. It looks like a photo someone snapped of a bunch of little plastic action figures.

    Wait, what? This doesn't look real to me. Neither does this.

    I could understand that sentiment if you were talking about this loop or something. But all the liquid I've seen in chemical plant thus far looks really fake.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    I love all your posts, TSR. Except when they bash Knuckles levels. I can't believe I'm actually excited for a new Sonic game. Colors completely surprised me, it really doesn't get enough credit for shaking off the bad parts of Unleashed and making a legitimately fun platformer. I love that the gimmick for this game is Classic Sonic. Generations Classic is the best style they have ever done. Green Hill Zone was just gorgeous.

    I didn't mind that Knuckles slowed down the game, but I would have if it was Sonic in a jetpack and climbing gloves. In the originals I played Knuckles to fly around and search for goodies. If I wanted to run through the stage I would play Sonic. Knuckles was already tied to relaxed exploration for me. Also he had the best music. I don't think people would complain as much if they didn't break up the Sonic action, but I liked that pacing.

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  • TheSonicRetardTheSonicRetard Registered User regular
    Frem wrote:
    The shot with Sonic coming out of the Megamack from the latest batch of screenshots looks real. It doesn't look like a game. It looks like a photo someone snapped of a bunch of little plastic action figures.

    Wait, what? This doesn't look real to me. Neither does this.

    I could understand that sentiment if you were talking about this loop or something. But all the liquid I've seen in chemical plant thus far looks really fake.

    The liquids look fake on purpose. That's how they looked in the genesis games. I always thought the water in the genesis games looked real, despite the impossible tones.

    The classic sonic image with the megamack looks like real life. Like what Sonic 2 would look like in real goddamn life. That's exactly how I imagine it.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    See, it's like this. When people bitch about SA2, notice how it rarely is about Tails/Eggman? I mean, those stages also break up the speed stages. Yet when people have a bone to pick with SA2, it's also the treasure hunts. That is because those stages are awful. It has nothing to do with breaking up the pace of the game (though that may be a complaint to raise for the game as a whole). I found the shooter levels to be a decent break from the speed stages. I found the hunting levels to be a break from the fun. Which isn't good when the game already had fun in short supply.

    Oh, and the music sucked.

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  • mntorankusumntorankusu Registered User regular
    I think the Knuckles stages are better than the Tails stages. The shooting stages are boring and pointless. At least you actually do something in the Knuckles stages.

  • -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Rorus Raz wrote:
    Oh, and the music sucked.

    You and I disagree on a fundamentally irreconcilable level

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  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I think the Knuckles stages are better than the Tails stages. The shooting stages are boring and pointless. At least you actually do something in the Knuckles stages.
    I...don't understand this post. You do something in both types of stages. Just...one is somewhat entertaining at best. Boring at worst. The other is painful to play thought. The shooter stages were fairly linear and might have been really fun if they were developed as their own game. The treasure hunts were basically the world's worst game of hot or cold.

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