But holy shit yeah, lots of kills absolutely doesn't help balence against a strong mafia, because the village gets stronger over time, and this game was crazy short.
I also spent the entire first day completely paranoid that I was insane because of my role description (the mention that I was operated on while awake).
I wrote down some notes on day one, if anyone wants to poke through them.
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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BaidolI will hold him offEscape while you canRegistered Userregular
heh, stever was also on my list of possible seer targets, but I had the distinct suspicion that he was going to get himself killed, and wanted someone that was going to be alive a bit longer... silly me...
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The AnonymousUh, uh, uhhhhhh...Uh, uh.Registered Userregular
5-7 days is generally what you want to aim for in a mini, so I'd say this was about right in length.
I only tend to die when I'm mafia. The brass phalla and the loxley ones I lived til the end! Especially weird since I was the most vocal weirdo in the brass phalla :P
So reading through the mafia proboards, The Anonymous's lie to Alegis about kime radically altered this game. The village was pretty much completely screwed once most of its specials implicitly trusted the mafia.
Virgil and Void, it was a pleasant (if exceedingly brief and traitorous) experience working with you both. Wasn't our fault that we had arguably the hardest win condition. And thanks for the wacky game, JT!
Wait, did Alegis have 3 people contacting him claiming to be a seer? He knew about Cyth, and Anon... wouldn't that have set off warning bells? That is except it was impossible to keep a network head alive
I was also a seer and would have contacted him day 2 with his name if I hadn't been so rudely interrupted by snake-woman makeouts while my eyes were away.
My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
I like this, I think I'm going to do this next time. Also Jason, thank you so much this was really fun. I felt awesome, and I felt like I had Kime, Taya, and Cythraul pegged pretty early (Taya because she didn't die at first, the rest etc). I think it's only because I wasn't a villager. Things might have been different if I had told the village this stuff, but I didn't know how to do it without telling the mafia that they should kill me.
Also pretty much every single neutral helped the mafia, knowingly or not
Honestly their sheer numbers helped the mafia more than anything else. The thing to remember with every neutral you put in the game is that they're not village. Almost half the game was not village, nor were obligated to give the village any loyalty. That makes it incredibly difficult to actually pull off a village win.
heh, stever was also on my list of possible seer targets, but I had the distinct suspicion that he was going to get himself killed, and wanted someone that was going to be alive a bit longer... silly me...
I foolishly targeted Stever with my ability, got a role seer on him, which he then revealed to the thread... It helped me prove myself to Alegis, but once he died, I had a lot of trouble getting anyone else to believe me.
Also, if you just get an alignment seer on someone, how the heck are you supposed to convince them that you are village aligned?
Finally, who killed me and why? Did stormwind put you up to it? I suppose I likely could have spun things to get someone to take out stormwind, but it seemed like a goal best left for later if the village was to win.
So I obviously had a lot of fun with this role, I have never been a seer before, it was a blast. I do think the mafia was a little overpowered against a village that was already smaller than normal with all the neutrals. I think this game highlighted how powerful a masoned busdriver can be, simply because there was an established network head three nights in a row. If alegis hadn't been instantly confirmed, I think we would have had a more difficult time of it. The network didn't have any time to grow, except where we wanted it to grow.
Teucrian award goes to piL, Egg award goes to kime.
oh, and speaking of notes... my analysis of kime's day 2 vote for Langly when the bandwagon was clearly on kuhlmeye:
If kime is a villager, he probably does not know for certain whether kuhlmeye and/or Langly is a scientist, and he's just throwing a name out for the sake of not following the bandwagon and having another seed planted in case somehow the vote gets shifted. From a purely statistical standpoint, this is the most likely situation.
If, however, he is a scientist, there are 4 possibilities:
First, neither kuhlmeye nor Langly is a scientist. Now, we know that Alegis doesn't have any particular reason for keeping kuhlmeye alive, we don't know that about Langly... so, it's in the scientists' interest to switch the vote away from kuhlmeye because it gives them a greater chance of hitting Alegis's guard.
Second, kuhlmeye is a scientist and Langly is not. The logic here is obvious -- he's planting a seed to prepare to switch the bandwagon if they figure out a way to manage it. The drawback, of course, is that if/when kuhlmeye does get lynched, he looks guilty.
Third, Langly is a scientist and kuhlmeye is not. Since it's unlikely that the bandwagon will switch, this puts distance between them so that if / when one of them dies the other can say "look, I can't be on the same side as him".
Fourth, they're both scientists, and the figure that at this point there isn't much they can do about the kuhlmeye bandwagon and want to put the distance between the other two as in option three.
I had considered putting this in the thread, but then figured that such analysis might make me a bad guy target. However, I had already written it up, so I saved it.
Knowing what I know now, that bold part is making me kick myself.
Also i don't think anyone cares but here are the two spreadsheets I had going, one for actual use and one to show people I was talking to like Alegis and Stever
That was fun while I was alive. Looking at the role list, the village didn't have a good chance to win the game. Or to ever get organized except behind the scenes.
SlyM and 38th were just random kills from me. I had no idea I was killing a village seer day 1, though I did guess it after I saw your role name, SLyM. And if you guys hadn't killed Alegis, I was pulling a con there to keep myself alive. I don't know if he would have bought it, but I told him that I had a choice to join either the mafia or village, and I would gain an extra ability depending on which team I joined. But, he died, and could tell stever not to kill me.
Also, if you just get an alignment seer on someone, how the heck are you supposed to convince them that you are village aligned?
There is no sure-fire way to prove that, but chances are if someone contacts you telling you you were seered good, you can believe them. They will trust you, obviously, since they know you are good. The generic seer is just an alignment seer, really, so that's what people usually work with.
Wait, did Alegis have 3 people contacting him claiming to be a seer? He knew about Cyth, and Anon... wouldn't that have set off warning bells? That is except it was impossible to keep a network head alive
He had four people contacting him claiming to be guards
Thank goodness you two had the same victory condition, I was trying (and failing horribly as a puppet to the mafia) to get someone to vig you virgil and am glad it was a free for all.
Fun game but a bus driver mafia mean that the mafia's kill may as well be unguardable. It basically eliminates the guards role except to defend against overzealous and inaccurate vigilantes.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
Thank goodness you two had the same victory condition, I was trying (and failing horribly as a puppet to the mafia) to get someone to vig you virgil and am glad it was a free for all.
Fun game but a bus driver mafia mean that the mafia's kill may as well be unguardable. It basically eliminates the guards role except to defend against overzealous and inaccurate vigilantes.
It's possible to beat a mafia bus, but you need to either get lucky with a roleblock or you have to know it's in play
Good grief. I think the game had a nice premise, but yeah, certain roles were definately more OP than others.
Hypnotoad and Mafia come to mind, obviously.
Depending on who got tagged with the venom, HT was essentially a faction all on his own. The icing on the top was getting a mafia addicted, which essentially allowed him to sit back and play vanillager.
But there's not really any reason for the mafia to have access to that much power.
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The only useful seer the village had.
He is gruddddgggggeeeeeddddddddd
But holy shit yeah, lots of kills absolutely doesn't help balence against a strong mafia, because the village gets stronger over time, and this game was crazy short.
I also spent the entire first day completely paranoid that I was insane because of my role description (the mention that I was operated on while awake).
I wrote down some notes on day one, if anyone wants to poke through them.
Though I agree there could've been fewer KPD.
I only tend to die when I'm mafia. The brass phalla and the loxley ones I lived til the end! Especially weird since I was the most vocal weirdo in the brass phalla :P
Confusion will be my epitaph
With a role block.
A little less than useful I would say.
But I did win.
Virgil and Void, it was a pleasant (if exceedingly brief and traitorous) experience working with you both. Wasn't our fault that we had arguably the hardest win condition. And thanks for the wacky game, JT!
Also
I like this, I think I'm going to do this next time. Also Jason, thank you so much this was really fun. I felt awesome, and I felt like I had Kime, Taya, and Cythraul pegged pretty early (Taya because she didn't die at first, the rest etc). I think it's only because I wasn't a villager. Things might have been different if I had told the village this stuff, but I didn't know how to do it without telling the mafia that they should kill me.
Honestly their sheer numbers helped the mafia more than anything else. The thing to remember with every neutral you put in the game is that they're not village. Almost half the game was not village, nor were obligated to give the village any loyalty. That makes it incredibly difficult to actually pull off a village win.
Also, if you just get an alignment seer on someone, how the heck are you supposed to convince them that you are village aligned?
Finally, who killed me and why? Did stormwind put you up to it? I suppose I likely could have spun things to get someone to take out stormwind, but it seemed like a goal best left for later if the village was to win.
I mean he was a sk so I guess the reason is because he could.
Hey I died in one game.
So I obviously had a lot of fun with this role, I have never been a seer before, it was a blast. I do think the mafia was a little overpowered against a village that was already smaller than normal with all the neutrals. I think this game highlighted how powerful a masoned busdriver can be, simply because there was an established network head three nights in a row. If alegis hadn't been instantly confirmed, I think we would have had a more difficult time of it. The network didn't have any time to grow, except where we wanted it to grow.
Teucrian award goes to piL, Egg award goes to kime.
If, however, he is a scientist, there are 4 possibilities:
First, neither kuhlmeye nor Langly is a scientist. Now, we know that Alegis doesn't have any particular reason for keeping kuhlmeye alive, we don't know that about Langly... so, it's in the scientists' interest to switch the vote away from kuhlmeye because it gives them a greater chance of hitting Alegis's guard.
Second, kuhlmeye is a scientist and Langly is not. The logic here is obvious -- he's planting a seed to prepare to switch the bandwagon if they figure out a way to manage it. The drawback, of course, is that if/when kuhlmeye does get lynched, he looks guilty.
Third, Langly is a scientist and kuhlmeye is not. Since it's unlikely that the bandwagon will switch, this puts distance between them so that if / when one of them dies the other can say "look, I can't be on the same side as him".
Fourth, they're both scientists, and the figure that at this point there isn't much they can do about the kuhlmeye bandwagon and want to put the distance between the other two as in option three.
I had considered putting this in the thread, but then figured that such analysis might make me a bad guy target. However, I had already written it up, so I saved it.
Knowing what I know now, that bold part is making me kick myself.
I wrote that before you died in the other game. It's actually what prompted the PM.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Akw0ozxEHt1kdHNLbXF5NnN5d3R1cFptMnZfSE9lNkE&hl=en_US
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Akw0ozxEHt1kdEdxc3laajdZWkp6YjRvUFFqSDhVUlE&hl=en_US
SlyM and 38th were just random kills from me. I had no idea I was killing a village seer day 1, though I did guess it after I saw your role name, SLyM. And if you guys hadn't killed Alegis, I was pulling a con there to keep myself alive. I don't know if he would have bought it, but I told him that I had a choice to join either the mafia or village, and I would gain an extra ability depending on which team I joined. But, he died, and could tell stever not to kill me.
Good game Jason. It was fun.
There is no sure-fire way to prove that, but chances are if someone contacts you telling you you were seered good, you can believe them. They will trust you, obviously, since they know you are good. The generic seer is just an alignment seer, really, so that's what people usually work with.
He had four people contacting him claiming to be guards
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Fun game but a bus driver mafia mean that the mafia's kill may as well be unguardable. It basically eliminates the guards role except to defend against overzealous and inaccurate vigilantes.
That's why you're my first really real for realsies grudge.
Votin' you day one in house of leaves, nothing's making me do otherwise.
It's possible to beat a mafia bus, but you need to either get lucky with a roleblock or you have to know it's in play
Hypnotoad and Mafia come to mind, obviously.
Depending on who got tagged with the venom, HT was essentially a faction all on his own. The icing on the top was getting a mafia addicted, which essentially allowed him to sit back and play vanillager.
But there's not really any reason for the mafia to have access to that much power.
But I still don't really know who killed me...
I can has cheezburger, yes?