They're really tiny. They're very small and you draw things very small so it's hard to tell what's going on because everything's so very, very tiny.
Your drawings are also very murky and scratchy, with inconsistently-drawn characters. You don't really know how to use contrast between light and dark, so it's hard to tell what's going on because it's hard to tell what the shape of anything is. All of your comics that I have seen so far are like some magic eye thing. I have to look at them and turn my head a bit and squint and focus and unfocus at random intervals to try and figure out what's going on.
And it's too bad that you don't plan on making any changes to that Quick & the Dead thing, because it is almost completely indecipherable at the moment. As Iruka said, they look like they're five feet apart. What's the guy's arm doing in panel four? Turning into a feather duster? Exploding? Vibrating at supersonic speeds? What's he doing with it in the last panel? Is that even how you use a gun or are you inventing a series of actions based on things you have half-remembered from westerns where people use guns that function in a completely different manner? Is the guy who threw the grenade the same guy as the one with the shotgun? Because we need a magnifying glass to tell if this is the case. Other than a grin and a scratch of about three pixels in size there is no way to tell if they are the same guy whatsoever.
What's the grenade doing there? Why was it thrown? If it's to try and kill the first guy, why isn't he diving out of the way instead of drawing his gun, or raising his semiautomatic which he has to cock for some reason to shoot the guy with the shotgun which he also has to cock even though the real shotgun it resembles most is also a semiautomatic? Nothing about the comic makes sense. Hell, the guys seem to even be moving at drastically different speeds.
We can't even tell what they're doing because, again, it's too dark, tiny and messy to properly make out anyone's actions on the page. The guy's hands in the final panel are also wildly different sizes. There's no real flow to people's actions, they look like they're posing for a painting or something. They're not even posing in the middle of actions, but they look like they're posing in between seperate actions. The eyes don't flow naturally from panel to panel, it's hard to tell that they're supposed to be part of a narrative besides the fact that they're on the same page. So it's that, plus your comics have no real internal logic that I can figure out.
I'm sorry, but these are just a huge, indecipherable mess. You need to work on cohesion within the page, cleaning up your stuff so we can tell what's going on, consistensy, flow, gestures, basically everything. Have you read Making Comics yet? By Scott McCloud? I know Understanding Comics was a revelation for you, but Making Comics would benefit you even more, on account of how it deals with all of the many, many issues that plague your comics at the moment.
Finally, I'm baffled by the joke in your Randy Savage comic. I just can't seem to wrap my head around it. Is it the fact that he takes viagra at all? That's not much of a joke. Is it the way viagra is portrayed? Okay, but then you don't need the last panel and you could put in a panel somewhere earlier to provide us with better build-up. Is it the fact that he can only last for three minutes? But he just took viagra. Is it the joke that he can only last for three minutes despite having taken viagra? It's just incredibly confusing. It's like you're trying out all kinds of different elements from all kinds of different possible jokes, but none of these elements really reinforce each other or even have anything to do with each other besides the basic premise of "viagra".
Thanks for your feedback. Nearly all of your points are spot on. I was not planning on making changes to the page, that was before I read "Understanding Comics" and "Making Comcis" both of which are gaddam amazing.
Having read those, I clearly understand what you're getting at, the problem I now face is knowing how to fix them. Now that I'm back in the sandbox, I have all my equipment and plan on drawing lots, still don't plan on fixing that page because it came out how I imagined, but is still shit (i'm not leaving it out of ignorance, I'm leaving it out of confusion, cuz I don't know what isn't working... I'll have to come back to it if I feel like its worth saving, which atm its not worth saving)
And the macho man randy savage thing is like what seig said. Its a whole spiderman bonesaw joke. The joke was "Boner is ready" like... "Bonesaw is ready" the 3 minutes part was just icng on the cake.
edit: These both are my first 2 comics that aren't just "2 dudes talking" type of comic.
so I admit they're fucking terrible, so please keep up with the nitty gritty feedbacks like this one... cuz i have no idea wtf I'm doing... still
other edit:
the grenade placement was my lazy attempt at pasting in wtf was happening before the opening panel... and so I guess it didn't work at all I have a few ideas on how to fix it but it ruins the rest of the page... gah!!! I'm probably just going to abandon that, do a few one shot panels for practice.
Not even sure if that's 3pt perspective at the bottom.
Or even what doing these excercises are supposed to do. I'm TRYING to work up some line confidence, and drawing single consistent lines.
Also drew a few pages of straight lines free hand. Didn't figure that was worth uploading.
Let me know if I'm heading the right direction.
And before you get all "draw frum life nub" I'm doing that right now
Try using a dip pen and some proper ink. Ballpoint pens are fine for rough sketches but if you were going for confident lines I'd advise you to use a dip pen because ballpoint pens can (as you see) get quite sketchy and it's rather hard to practice line weight with them. Using a dip pen you only get one chance to make that perfect line, one single sway of the pen, whereas you can handle a ballpoint pen as a pencil (except for erasing obviously).
Line weight practice + line consistency practice! WOOOO
IDK what a dip pen even is! But by jove, when I get home I'm going to by some and play with them! Thanks for the feed back.
So, as I promised last night in the [chat] thread, last night was figure practice time So I went home and cracked open a loomis book "Successful Drawing" I started from the beginning like you should with any book, and all that perspective shit was waaaaay over my head, and I didn't feel like reading a fucking dissertation. I was tired.
Not only that, but he digs into the weeds on a lot of shit. For example "NO RLY srsly guys, I once knew a guy... who tried to draw someting? But he couldn't draw it." Wow. Cool story bro. Will tell again.
WTF? I just wanted to draw stuff. So I scrolled through and found the inevitable gesture drawings, and proceeded to copy them.
Here's what I came up with. The first 2 pages are loomis copies.
the next 2 pages are from my imagination... and as you can probably tell, I'm super excited about them, so critique them to shit plz!!!
I especially like this page ^^^ the top left and middle poses are fun !
ninjai on
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BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
much better ninj!
keep it up!
you might want to try Loomis' "Figure Drawing for All It's Worth" as well, it tends to get to the point a little bit faster than his other books and most of the lessons are self-contained so you don't need to do all that much reading
you might want to try Loomis' "Figure Drawing for All It's Worth" as well, it tends to get to the point a little bit faster than his other books and most of the lessons are self-contained so you don't need to do all that much reading
Yeah, I archived all the useful books from the master help thread when I got my laptop. They've been indespensible (when I get around to using them :[ ) I just rarely spend time practicing. Look @ how much I've improved
It's just these really. You could also use a fountain pen, but fountain pen ink is usually water soluble and can get quite runny, it takes longer to dry and it can seep into the paper on which you're drawing. Dip pen ink is way better, it's just more annoying to get used to dipping it the right amount and maintaining proper control of it. But dip pens use India ink which is really great!(also, remember to clean your dip pen after use - that's another bothersome part of it).
This is an army man with a clown nose on its head that we colored eyes on sitting on my desk. I thought it was funny so I drew it.
Sat outside by a waterpoint after the gym yesterday and drew this, applying my own rudimentary perspective ability. I think placement turned out great. Need more practice drawing straight lines.
Still sitting at the same spot, drew a few pages of gestures, this was the best out of the 3.
The inks don't look bad for a first go at it. Inking takes a looong time to get good at, its a skill I need to spend more time on.
Your jesters finger is blending into its head, you probably want to move that hand over.
I think your shape studies are going in the right direction. Try experimenting with your shading. Cycle through a bunch of different motions (little slow circles, very light sweeping strokes, things like that) Shading with the form will also help (AOBs image here:
)
I think I'm going to get to some of this tonight with my practices. Any suggestions? (i.e. tell me what to do )
So IDK if you guys have heard about this, but its pretty badass. This is how it played out in my mind.
Page 3 will probably be the most confusing. They're doing hand signals, I'm gonna have to find a different way to rewhicker panels 3 and 4 (panel 3: hand and arm signal for come here, panel 4: hand and arm signal for cover me.) I have an idea, I'll have to fix that today before I forget. Also there is an establishing shot between page 1 and page 2, its going to be a full page, but I haven't worked it out yet so I didn't upload it. I'm planning on inking it traditionally and digitally for practice.
ESTABLISHING SHOT
While I was smoking, the same truck I drew a while ago was sitting there, so I figured I'd draw it again to see how my perception has improved.
another inking instrument you might want to try would be a good quality felt-tip pen. I prefer felt tips over crow quills because they tend to dry fast (a must for me) and are considerably more portable. I like Pigma Microns (resist the urge to buy a 005, go for an 03, 05 or 08), the new Sharpie Pens, and the Copic Liners (pricey but refillable). Brush tip felt pens are helpful for experimenting with certain types of brushstroke inking. File this under "more advice about trying everything" but I hadn't seen anyone else suggest them so I figured I'd put it out there. You might like to read Shawn Martinbrough's book about drawing noir comics. (posting from my phone so I lack an Amazon link) The book assumes you know how to draw already, but since you are into the noir styling it is a useful book for understanding *why* to do things a certain way.
Well Ninjai, this whole thread has been an awesome read. Tons of great advice from the community, and legitimate progress in your art. It's nice to see that there's someone willing to take critique and really do their best to implement it into their work as you have.
Also, I've been inspired to get to work on my own art!
Labeling stuff (like "coffee <---") is a habit you should break. I feel like it leads to explaining yourself more than needed, and takes from the humor. Even if it's just a doodle, I think it'd be good practice to make illustrations that tell enough of the story so you don't have to label everything. Even things like an "I am tired" caption isn't necessary if you can make the image clear enough (:
I was thinking that yesterday mustang. Next one will be gordon smashing him upside the head with a bat... to make him forget that he drank the water...
I MD's style so I tried to steal from it a bit in today's doodles.
So this is a thing I've been working on for a thing. As it says in that thread I'm working on building character bio's and sketches, going to work on a map after I finish this guy...
But I need some help.
So obvious things are always helpful (because I forget about those all the time), but I'm running into one specific problem, this is dark as fuck. Its very... if forget the word... the tone is flat that one (haha remembered it midsentence and to lazy to backspace.) so if you have any photoshopping tips that could be useful, please let me know.
The black panel is going to be for the character bio.
Here's some more unrelated stuff that I've done recently but haven't been able to find an image uploader
this one was part of a larger composition, an actual composition, but it turned out terrible so I turned off all the background layers and quit.
This is Sylvia, the realm where my Pathfinder game takes place. Parthedra is where the campaign starts.
Still got loads of work to do on this one. Its taken me most of the day so far (more time spent sitting around than working on it)
edit:
Oh yeah, @m3nace this is that picture I was talking about a while back about my friend not wanting me to upload it.
I'm digging the last few things you've posted here.
One thing I have noticed though is that your blocks of color don't looks very 'confident'. They are all wobbly, like you scribbled them with a too small brush and then nudged them with the erasure tool randomly.
That's because that's exactly what I did :P well sort of. I use a freakin huge brush, and then nudge it with the erasure tool randomly. I'm not quite sure how people get such neat forms otherwise. I mean, it takes me a while, but like the right arm of the warrior dude, looks pretty crisp by comparison, it just takes a lot longer...
here's a thing I tried to paint via mcgibs tutorial I watched eons ago, but in grayscale. IDK if its any good.
It seems rather like my color drawings. Just large shapes with no details... idk where to go from here. The only thing I can think of is study the hell out of some fighter jet kind of things and steal little details from here or there, maybe some sci-fi robots stuff? Study light from the metals n stuff...
but then I also don't know how much time to spend on these little doodles...
That's because that's exactly what I did :P well sort of. I use a freakin huge brush, and then nudge it with the erasure tool randomly. I'm not quite sure how people get such neat forms otherwise.
well ... practice, I guess? it's about having the motor control to make fast, confident strokes. But even if you do go overboard and want to erase back to get a clean, crisp line ... why nudge it randomly? you can wield the eraser confidently as well. But tiddling around with wibbly small brushes, whether they're paints or erasers, is always going to be difficult.
This is a sort of speed painting of Romain Jeandrot (stunt rider) and also my profile picture.
@Tynic, the thing is, I don't know what I could be doing differently. I did that "Death comes to all, and to all a good night" picture, and stumbled upon this method of drawing, by throwing down a few hooj blobs, and then erasing/using a white brush to mess around with forms until I found something I liked.
I'm just sticking with what I know, and thats why I need photoshop help.
Thats also the reason I'm not really using lines so much as big blobs of color.
I think you need to be patient, Ninjai. It can take years and years to improve. Don't worry that you're not at the skill level you want to be at yet. Just keep on practicing.
I think you need to be patient, Ninjai. It can take years and years to improve. Don't worry that you're not at the skill level you want to be at yet. Just keep on practicing.
Ha ha, thanks. I'm not really being impatient I don't think, just looking for some advice from more experienced people. I'm actually really happy with that terrible painting thing that I just uploaded. But if there's some brush or photoshop tweak I can do, or just some general rule of thumb that I'm missing, I could use the advice.
I'm actually really proud of most of the stuff that I've uploaded in the last week or so, because it shows my improvement (though I'm a little embarrassed to admit it because of all the really good artists on here) so no worries :P I draw to relieve stress, not to horde it
Looking back, I started my goal to improve day 1 of this deployment. Here I am leaving today having accomplished that goal.
Posts
Thanks for your feedback. Nearly all of your points are spot on. I was not planning on making changes to the page, that was before I read "Understanding Comics" and "Making Comcis" both of which are gaddam amazing.
Having read those, I clearly understand what you're getting at, the problem I now face is knowing how to fix them. Now that I'm back in the sandbox, I have all my equipment and plan on drawing lots, still don't plan on fixing that page because it came out how I imagined, but is still shit (i'm not leaving it out of ignorance, I'm leaving it out of confusion, cuz I don't know what isn't working... I'll have to come back to it if I feel like its worth saving, which atm its not worth saving)
And the macho man randy savage thing is like what seig said. Its a whole spiderman bonesaw joke. The joke was "Boner is ready" like... "Bonesaw is ready" the 3 minutes part was just icng on the cake.
edit: These both are my first 2 comics that aren't just "2 dudes talking" type of comic.
so I admit they're fucking terrible, so please keep up with the nitty gritty feedbacks like this one... cuz i have no idea wtf I'm doing... still
other edit:
the grenade placement was my lazy attempt at pasting in wtf was happening before the opening panel... and so I guess it didn't work at all
Here is a doodle.
Here's a few sketches.
Critiques?
Not even sure if that's 3pt perspective at the bottom.
Or even what doing these excercises are supposed to do. I'm TRYING to work up some line confidence, and drawing single consistent lines.
Also drew a few pages of straight lines free hand. Didn't figure that was worth uploading.
Let me know if I'm heading the right direction.
And before you get all "draw frum life nub" I'm doing that right now
Trying to have confident lines, so I did this in pen.
Front tire is WAY too fucking big.
reference
WOW that look horribad.
y do you ask?
Line weight practice + line consistency practice! WOOOO
So, as I promised last night in the [chat] thread, last night was figure practice time
Not only that, but he digs into the weeds on a lot of shit. For example "NO RLY srsly guys, I once knew a guy... who tried to draw someting? But he couldn't draw it." Wow. Cool story bro. Will tell again.
WTF? I just wanted to draw stuff. So I scrolled through and found the inevitable gesture drawings, and proceeded to copy them.
Here's what I came up with. The first 2 pages are loomis copies.
the next 2 pages are from my imagination... and as you can probably tell, I'm super excited about them, so critique them to shit plz!!!
I especially like this page ^^^ the top left and middle poses are fun !
keep it up!
you might want to try Loomis' "Figure Drawing for All It's Worth" as well, it tends to get to the point a little bit faster than his other books and most of the lessons are self-contained so you don't need to do all that much reading
Yeah, I archived all the useful books from the master help thread when I got my laptop. They've been indespensible (when I get around to using them :[ ) I just rarely spend time practicing. Look @ how much I've improved
I should practice more!!!
Look
Thanks so much for all the feedback and encouragement that has gotten me this far.
And damn u iruka for telling me to practice... I think I'm beginning to enjoy it
You're gonna do just fine ninjai.
Also, thank you
Here's some office doodles.
It's just these really. You could also use a fountain pen, but fountain pen ink is usually water soluble and can get quite runny, it takes longer to dry and it can seep into the paper on which you're drawing. Dip pen ink is way better, it's just more annoying to get used to dipping it the right amount and maintaining proper control of it. But dip pens use India ink which is really great!(also, remember to clean your dip pen after use - that's another bothersome part of it).
This is an army man with a clown nose on its head that we colored eyes on sitting on my desk. I thought it was funny so I drew it.
Sat outside by a waterpoint after the gym yesterday and drew this, applying my own rudimentary perspective ability. I think placement turned out great. Need more practice drawing straight lines.
Still sitting at the same spot, drew a few pages of gestures, this was the best out of the 3.
essentially POG-ass bitch that gets paid to sit around on a computer all day.
I think I'm going to get to some of this tonight with my practices. Any suggestions? (i.e. tell me what to do
Page 3 will probably be the most confusing. They're doing hand signals, I'm gonna have to find a different way to rewhicker panels 3 and 4 (panel 3: hand and arm signal for come here, panel 4: hand and arm signal for cover me.) I have an idea, I'll have to fix that today before I forget. Also there is an establishing shot between page 1 and page 2, its going to be a full page, but I haven't worked it out yet so I didn't upload it. I'm planning on inking it traditionally and digitally for practice.
ESTABLISHING SHOT
While I was smoking, the same truck I drew a while ago was sitting there, so I figured I'd draw it again to see how my perception has improved.
Here ya go.
NEW:
OLD:
Todays office doodels
Also, I've been banned from using the computer at work LUL, and thats... sort of... my job to use it? Idk. wtf ever.
Uncanny Magazine!
The Mad Writers Union
Also, I've been inspired to get to work on my own art!
And MD, yeah I have a problem with knowing if I'm clear or not, so I tend to label things, I'll try to stop from now on
I
For those of you that play LoL this is Annie all grow'd up .... about to murder amumu
Also, I drew if Tsutomu Nihei invented a Washing Machine...
But I need some help.
So obvious things are always helpful (because I forget about those all the time), but I'm running into one specific problem, this is dark as fuck. Its very... if forget the word... the tone is flat that one (haha remembered it midsentence and to lazy to backspace.) so if you have any photoshopping tips that could be useful, please let me know.
The black panel is going to be for the character bio.
Here's some more unrelated stuff that I've done recently but haven't been able to find an image uploader
this one was part of a larger composition, an actual composition, but it turned out terrible so I turned off all the background layers and quit.
This is Sylvia, the realm where my Pathfinder game takes place. Parthedra is where the campaign starts.
Still got loads of work to do on this one. Its taken me most of the day so far (more time spent sitting around than working on it)
edit:
Oh yeah, @m3nace this is that picture I was talking about a while back about my friend not wanting me to upload it.
It means "God's Vengeance" (loose translation)
One thing I have noticed though is that your blocks of color don't looks very 'confident'. They are all wobbly, like you scribbled them with a too small brush and then nudged them with the erasure tool randomly.
Not quite sure what else I could be doing.
here's a thing I tried to paint via mcgibs tutorial I watched eons ago, but in grayscale. IDK if its any good.
It seems rather like my color drawings. Just large shapes with no details... idk where to go from here. The only thing I can think of is study the hell out of some fighter jet kind of things and steal little details from here or there, maybe some sci-fi robots stuff? Study light from the metals n stuff...
but then I also don't know how much time to spend on these little doodles...
well ... practice, I guess? it's about having the motor control to make fast, confident strokes. But even if you do go overboard and want to erase back to get a clean, crisp line ... why nudge it randomly? you can wield the eraser confidently as well. But tiddling around with wibbly small brushes, whether they're paints or erasers, is always going to be difficult.
This is a sort of speed painting of Romain Jeandrot (stunt rider) and also my profile picture.
@Tynic, the thing is, I don't know what I could be doing differently. I did that "Death comes to all, and to all a good night" picture, and stumbled upon this method of drawing, by throwing down a few hooj blobs, and then erasing/using a white brush to mess around with forms until I found something I liked.
I'm just sticking with what I know, and thats why I need photoshop help.
Thats also the reason I'm not really using lines so much as big blobs of color.
Ha ha, thanks. I'm not really being impatient I don't think, just looking for some advice from more experienced people. I'm actually really happy with that terrible painting thing that I just uploaded. But if there's some brush or photoshop tweak I can do, or just some general rule of thumb that I'm missing, I could use the advice.
I'm actually really proud of most of the stuff that I've uploaded in the last week or so, because it shows my improvement (though I'm a little embarrassed to admit it because of all the really good artists on here) so no worries :P I draw to relieve stress, not to horde it
Looking back, I started my goal to improve day 1 of this deployment. Here I am leaving today having accomplished that goal.