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Trials and Tribulations of Car Shopping
CptKemzik
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Background: My 13 year-old Chrysler grandpa-mobile that was passed on from my parents has been on its last legs the past couple of years, requiring thousands of dollars in repairs to the point where we probably should have scrapped it sooner than latter. The latest problem with it occurred this past weekend, and between $400 for fixing the issue in question, plus a potential $1,200 repair for the timing belt, has left my mom and I between a rock and a hard place with doing even more trips to the shop, to the point where it's better to just start looking for a new car. The initial plan was to get in touch with my dad (parentals are divorced) and strike a deal to get a used car in the $5-7k range and repay him accordingly.
Current Situation: It seems my grandma, who as recently moved to be in closer proximity to mom, has taken it upon herself to serve as my benefactor for getting a new car as she has loads of money in the bank from recently selling her NYC home + the funds that she has traditionally subsided by. This new car would actually be vital to a job I'm starting in september, that requires lots of driving on a daily basis; so I'm not necessarily just asking family to bankroll a BMW for me.
If I'm understanding correctly (i need to talk over the whole thing some more with her) this car would feasibly be paid in full at the time of purchase, or within a very short payment time frame. Taking all of this into consideration I would like to have her save as much money as possible for the transaction, and also potentially save as much money as possible for future repairs and maintenance on my end.
So the two car models I have been looking at the most are the Honda Fit and VW Golf. They're compact hatchbacks with cargo room, and aren't gas guzzlers, which is exactly the kind of car I would need at this point in life. I have already been looking at available models for both online at specific dealerships, and at sites like car.com.
My first question to H&A is should "we" (i/e superhero grandma) buy a car New, certified used, or used with it being inspected accordingly? Second which of the two cars would be the more sensible buy? I know the honda would overall be less expensive, but given my situation (and slight preference towards the VW) this hasn't been as clear-cut of a decision as I thought it might be. This also brings me to my point on maintenance/repairs. I've generally read how VW's are either excellent or duds which require lots of time and money in the shop due to the nature of most parts having to be imported (whereas Honda is usually one of the gold standards in reliability). Yet I've also read that the difference in upkeep cost between VW and Honda isn't dramatic if one is looking for a car with the VW drive performance. Is there a different brand with a similar make I should be looking at more? It seems like most of the hatchbacks that are less expensive than even the Fit end up sacrificing features or performance for savings that aren't substantial in difference.
Current Situation: It seems my grandma, who as recently moved to be in closer proximity to mom, has taken it upon herself to serve as my benefactor for getting a new car as she has loads of money in the bank from recently selling her NYC home + the funds that she has traditionally subsided by. This new car would actually be vital to a job I'm starting in september, that requires lots of driving on a daily basis; so I'm not necessarily just asking family to bankroll a BMW for me.
If I'm understanding correctly (i need to talk over the whole thing some more with her) this car would feasibly be paid in full at the time of purchase, or within a very short payment time frame. Taking all of this into consideration I would like to have her save as much money as possible for the transaction, and also potentially save as much money as possible for future repairs and maintenance on my end.
So the two car models I have been looking at the most are the Honda Fit and VW Golf. They're compact hatchbacks with cargo room, and aren't gas guzzlers, which is exactly the kind of car I would need at this point in life. I have already been looking at available models for both online at specific dealerships, and at sites like car.com.
My first question to H&A is should "we" (i/e superhero grandma) buy a car New, certified used, or used with it being inspected accordingly? Second which of the two cars would be the more sensible buy? I know the honda would overall be less expensive, but given my situation (and slight preference towards the VW) this hasn't been as clear-cut of a decision as I thought it might be. This also brings me to my point on maintenance/repairs. I've generally read how VW's are either excellent or duds which require lots of time and money in the shop due to the nature of most parts having to be imported (whereas Honda is usually one of the gold standards in reliability). Yet I've also read that the difference in upkeep cost between VW and Honda isn't dramatic if one is looking for a car with the VW drive performance. Is there a different brand with a similar make I should be looking at more? It seems like most of the hatchbacks that are less expensive than even the Fit end up sacrificing features or performance for savings that aren't substantial in difference.
CptKemzik on
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Why do you need to buy a new car? Why would you not lease one?
Buying a car cold cash is not going to help your credit any more than leasing one is, and if you lease a car, then the dealership is MUCH more responsible for repairs.
I mean... if you're going to walk into a dealership with 15+ grand to take home a fit, you might as well stick that money in an account somewhere and make $250/month payments on a lease, then get a new car in three years.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is when you go in to look at it (whether new or used), don't tell the salesman that you're planning on paying cash for the whole thing. The dealerships usually make their money through financing, so if they know ahead of time that they won't be doing that on this one, they'll screw you on the price. You also probably shouldn't pay what they have as the sticker price, as they usually have room to negotiate down.
"This new car would actually be vital to a job I'm starting in september, that requires lots of driving on a daily basis"
I'd get a compact to standard sized car that gets good mileage (shoot for 35+). If granny really wants to help you out you might see if she'd pony up for an extended warranty or some pre-paid maintenance.
"the Honda Fit and VW Golf."
Both fine cars, you also might want to look at a Civic, the 2011/12 Hyundai Elantra (not a hatchback, but feels like a standard/midsize inside eventhough it's a compact), and the new Ford Focus looks nice (the Fiesta gets even better mileage). I'd also look at and test drive the Toyota Matrix/Corolla. Prius may be getting too spendy, but you're going to get great mileage. Check out and test drive them all and anything else that catches your fancy: that's the fun part.
As far as reliability/upkeep costs go I think that's a lot more informed by how you take care of the car than the make. Do you get the fluids and filters changed on an adequate interval (including brakes and tranny)? Do you get the car checked out when the "check engine" light is on, or do you wait months? If you notice the car driving oddly or new noises do you check them out (or have them checked out) or do you wait? Do you drive your car hard?
What?!?! Leasing is a terrible idea. You are paying the depreciation on a new car when you are leasing it, over the time period where it depreciates most severely. In those 3 years he'll be out 9 grand in lease payments, he'll need 15% return on the 15k, just to not lose ground. And 3 years from now he'll have nothing to show for spending the 9 grand.
A 15K loan at 3% is only $270 in payments by comparison. A NEW fiesta-hatch with an automatic is 17.5 on the ford website, so once you get into the incentives it should be down near 15.
Maybe Canadian prices are weird, though
The Elantra is available as a hatchback, they refer to it as the Elantra Touring. The new Focus is very nice, the only problem will be finding a hatchback model. They are in VERY short supply. I recently bought a Mazda3 because I couldn't find a 2012 Focus 5 door with the options I wanted within 5 states of myself. If you decide to go for a used model, the previous body style focus and mazda3 are both really good choices. Cheap to maintain and both very miserly on fuel.
Personally I'd recommend not looking into the Golf. I'm a VW owner as well and can tell you while the driving experience is great, the owning experience leaves a lot to be desired. I've had a lot of nitpicky little problems, like electrical gremlins and windows falling into the door because of a cheap plastic retainer. Parts aren't particularly cheap and generally the labor costs will be higher.
VW will definitely cost you more to maintain just by virtue of being a VW--but it also will probably cost you more to insure. Call your insurance agent and get estimates on both.
Look at the Ford Fiesta and hell, even a Focus, as they're both cheap to operate, maintain and insure. Haven't driven a Versa or the newest Honda Civic, but they're probably worth a look too.
Also, have you driven both of these? I found the interior of the Fit to be cheap as hell but really roomy for a car that size, while the VW looked and felt nice but also tiny inside.
New v. Used: For cars in the 15-20k range, there is not a significant savings in buying used for any car that's at all "recent." You can buy a new car for, say, 17k, with dealer incentives, low financing rates, etc., or you can buy the same car used for 16.5k at a higher interest rate, no incentives, etc. so it ends up actually being the same or more money.
Nothing wrong with buying a new car if you're looking for cars around 15k.
The Fit is nice but I found it didn't have a lot of "oomph" in accelerating compared to basically every other hatchback. The Nissan Versa hatchback is a steal for what you get, but honestly, if you're just looking for a small hatchback? Check out the Hyundai Accent. You can snag them for really cheap, they're great cars, and they're surprisingly roomy. They're coupe-style, so the back seat isn't very accessible, but they're worth a test drive for sure.
My understanding is that the Elantra Touring is the previous generation of Elentra, while the 2012 sedan is the new model that premiered this year and has significantly better mileage, some better interior materials, and looks pretty nice (my co-worker has one, and after about 1000 miles he's averaging 39, predominantly highway driving).
If he were buying for himself I'd certainly say look at used first. But it's granny buying, and she's flush, and besides providing transport for him it's likely she has other reasons to buy him stuff (like passing on some of her wealth while avoiding inheritance tax). This is one of the few situations where I'd unhesitantly say to go for new.
My remedial understanding is that the whole cash for clunkers thing dried up the pool of used cars in a lot of places, so now all those 2-3 year old cars barely cost less than a brand new one.
I'm very much not a fan. I've had them as rentals twice now, and I'd say they might be ok just around town, but if you have to do any extended stretch on the freeway, you're better off passing on one. Most recently I drove one across the width of Missouri on I40 and got blown around by every passing semi, truck or SUV. It was incredibly noisy at those speeds and didn't really have the oomph that made me feel safe accelerating onto the highway. I definitely wasn't impressed with the fuel economy in it either. Even with 400 miles on the highway, I only managed to get around 30 mpg.
Get it. Now. Either one that's just out of warranty (and therefore cheap as hell, even with full logbook servicing and low miles), or brand new to enjoy the safety of the new car warranty.
The diesels are only offered in Europe and Australia. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that the OP is in the US.
In response to Djeet's comment on driving, I don't drive my car particularly hard aside from driving it on the highway often and accelerating when sensible (i/e not acting like a traffic weaving goose). Due to my experiences of having to drive a 98 chrysler cirrus, Ive basically been forced to become acclimated with replacing and checking things on a prompt and regular basis, otherwise things go downhill with that car and fast as evident with the most recent woes this summer.
That said, buying a car that's even a year old saves you a ton. I wouldn't buy new and finance unless it's 0% financing, and leasing is never really a good idea unless you plan to lease for the rest of your life, it's just how people who can't afford a 3 series get their hands on one. Honestly if it were me buying a car right this second, I'd go for a last-gen mazda three or a Fiesta, both a pretty zippy and reasonably priced, can carry more than a sedan, and are compact enough to not be a pain
Oh and if you're looking for a steal, Ebay does some really good and surprisingly inexpensive certified pre-owns that are definitely worth a look
All that being said, I drive a 2010 Mazda 3 hatchback, do about half city and half highway driving, and I'm only getting like 26 miles to the gallon. So maybe not good enough mpg for the OP.
I suspect a large portion of your better price has a lot to do with the having the 2.0 liter engine instead of the 2.3/2.5 liter. Right now, a brand new Mazda 3i touring sedan (the hatchback is only available as an "s" these days) goes for a little over $18k. Putting the 2.5 liter engine on that same car adds about $4k to that price.
Now let's say you get some simple car that only manages an easy 30 MPG, like a Fiesta or whatever. After that same 100k miles you will have spent about 13.3k$. So you have saved 4k on gasoline by getting the Prius... after 100 thousand miles.
Then remember that a Prius costs a good 25k minimum, generally closer to 30k, and you can get a Fiesta for an easy 15k, and you have to ask yourself what the point is?
But if you got a new V6 mustang for 21k or less (which they are now) and someone else grabbed a Prius for 25k (lowest price I can find), theyre still only saving about $3,000 over the course of 100,000 miles compared to a very fast 300 horsepower sports car. I think people should do some of this math for themselves and decide if its really worth it.
(and obviously none of this takes into account failure rates, average repair costs over time of each vehicle, etc which can greatly skew the "value" towards either one depending on what those numbers are)
While I am still gonna try out the nissan, I feel like it will be down to the ford and honda. Interior quality wise both were suitable, the honda was noticeably roomier and had more impressive carrying capacity, but at the same time I dunno if that will be a deal maker/breaker for me. Dealership wise my experience at the ford dealer felt pleasant and laid back; they didnt even try to coerce me to come in and talk financing right there. Also the fiesta they have is exactly what I would want and could drive off with it this weekend if i decide on it. Meanwhile the honda only carried the sport trim fits (i was under the impression they had the base), and it seemed like they wouldnt have base models again until a week or two. Also I don't know if this means they will be 2012 hondas, which means a higher price tag (the fiesta i tried out was a 2011 and comes with rebate incentives). Also the Honda sales associate I was with tried to do some pushy sales pitching on making a purchase right there today even though they don't have the car im really looking for, which was off-putting. Other honda dealers i checked near me also only have sport trims available until a couple weeks later. This is important cause I will be leaving for my next job around this waiting period and want to get the car ASAP.
So I will ask this thread something concerning what the Honda associate was trying to sell; reliability and resale value. I know overall that hondas are typically a smart buy that can last a while, but all of the examples that the associate used, of his own cars that he has had, are all older ones from the 90's, which is great and all but im buying a new car. While I wouldnt be looking to trade in or sell the car I purchase for quite a while, would buying a Ford really put me at a disadvantage compared to the Honda? These days it seems like Honda/Toyota isn't the only clear-cut gold standard for reliability. At this point I almost feel ready to just go with the Ford simply cause the dealer has what I'm looking for and they wouldn't be as much of a hassle to deal with.
This brings me to financing. So grandma is the benefactor, however since she's never had to use or buy a car in her life (again NYC resident), and she's still moving her money around from the recent house sale, I wouldn't be expecting her to pay the whole enchilada outright. Thus through my bank/auto insurance (USAA) i've got a $12,400 loan lined up that is set at 36 months with 1.99% fixed interest, and no penalty fees for whenever my grandma feels like paying off the principal in large swathes. Also on my end I put in total loss coverage and an extended warranty/service plan that doesn't bring up the monthly payments that much. What the loan doesn't cover, my grandma would pay for via putting the money into my checking account. I'm still open to seeing what financing each dealership may offer or match towards mine, but I'm guessing I should just use my member pricing certificate (eliminates the haggling) and auto loan, with grandma paying the rest, and call it a day?
Unless you buy Dodge.
I know like 5 months ago Honda had a .9% financing offer on the Fit. My five year loan has me paying something like $300 in interest. Honda has been having issues with inventory with the events in Japan so they might not have such a deal running right now.
I have a Fit with the Sport trim and I have been enjoying it. The back can hold a truly ridiculous amount of stuff. It's just amazing. I have been getting around 37 MPG, but not very much city driving and I have the manual transmission.
I've had my Fit Sport since November, and it really is amazing what you can get in it. I got a five foot long plastic table top in mine with the back seat folded flat.
My in-laws have a '10 Honda Fit, which they say is similarly reliable.
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Try the Mazda 3 and if possible the Mazda 2 (I don't know if the Mazda 2 has reached the states yet but it's sort of a sister car to the Ford Fiesta only more fun. I tried both as borrow cars while my MX-5 was in for service and some TLC due to an accident).