Here we go again. They are men first, shifter/werewolf second. They use their abilities to get some release, and have normal lives as men, so settling it like so, is par for the course.
More so than shifters, it seems like the werewolves closely identify with their canine nature, but they act like men to blend in and make use of some of the benefits inherent in having thumbs and such.
Not complaining. The effects budget is a thing, and you've got to massage the characters to work within it.
I've seen this excuse a couple time now. I'd love to see a comparison between True Blood's budget and the rest of HBOs current & near past lineup. I'd be surprised if this show cost as much as Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones, or Deadwood (just to name a few).
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
boardwalk's budget got cut for the second season I think
but yeah I'd love to see figures like that on their shows over the years.
Here we go again. They are men first, shifter/werewolf second. They use their abilities to get some release, and have normal lives as men, so settling it like so, is par for the course.
I am not at all surprised by the concept that they settled it with fists rather than tooth or claw. They are not wolves or other animals and thusly, their chosen form of combat is a traditional one, especially as they are both products of human society, where settling it like men in this situation could be considered apropos.
You don't get props for being "par for the course" just because you're writers are either too retarded or too inept to write a decent shifter character. It was par for the course, and I wasn't surprised in the least. That doesn't mean it wasn't moronic.
If they were fighting over a woman (as Variable thought), I might go along with it. But...
Sam had just lost his brother. This wasn't about proving who the better "man" was. It was about revenge for a murder.
If you don't use your powers in that situation, you don't deserve to have them.
I'm done with Sam. He's now replaced Tara for most annoying useless piece of shit character in the show. Any and all plot tangents involving him will now be met with my eye glazing over likely followed by either a trip to the toilet or the fridge.
I've seen this excuse a couple time now. I'd love to see a comparison between True Blood's budget and the rest of HBOs current & near past lineup. I'd be surprised if this show cost as much as Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones, or Deadwood (just to name a few).
Probably, but if they don't need to spend it then it's harder to justify than needing money to pull off some period settings.
I'm going all cynical assuming cash and effort are the cause for sparse shifting, but if the characters in the book behave the same way, then that sort of trumps any other reasons not to have more shifting.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
true canman, I forgot about that! and considering that I actually think not shifting makes less sense.
this isn't the type of thing that gets to me but I think it's a fair complaint for sure.
If you don't use your powers in that situation, you don't deserve to have them.
Remember, his ultimate goal was to savage and humiliate Marcus; thereby kicking his ego's ass as well. What's worse for a guy like Marcus: getting your ass kicked by a shifter, or getting your ass kicked by a shifter who refused to shift?
[e]Although
The guy in the mechanic shop was fair game for interrogation-by-silverback
Everyone on this show is retarded with powers, Sam is just the worst. The vampires STILL stopped to chat even though every damn time they do that they ended up as zombie slaves, etc etc etc. This doesn't even have to have anything to do with budget (the bunny was probably a lot cheaper than a cool shifter/wolf fight, after all), but they write them stupid on top of it.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
If you don't use your powers in that situation, you don't deserve to have them.
Remember, his ultimate goal was to savage and humiliate Marcus; thereby kicking his ego's ass as well. What's worse for a guy like Marcus: getting your ass kicked by a shifter, or getting your ass kicked by a shifter who refused to shift?
With as condescending as Marcus was to shifters, I'd say the former would be much worse for his ego.
There is absolutely no way to spin that scene that excuses it other than incompetent writing.
I'm just glad they killed Marney for the simple fact that Eric can go back to acting like Eric and not a some pussmpire. Not sure on the Lafayette plot at the end either. I think if possession is the focus of this season it is going to get old quick.
Marnie is casting the spell that is drawing the vamps towards the barrier looked incredibly hilarious? The way they moved towards the barrier at first looked like something I'd see in a 5 year olds movie project.
Did multiple people seriously miss the point of Sam's encounter with Marcus? He was bad ass because he brought himself out of a murderous rage. Turning himself into some crazy animal would be decidedly not badass, and run contrary to Sam's growth and development as a character. A major part of his arc for the last two seasons has been to come to terms with his past and the negative emotions it brings up in him like rage/anger. Him being brought to the brink with Marcus after his brother was killed was probably one of the most fulfilling culminations of a character arc in this show.
Last season he shot Tommy out of rage, what would he have learned if after Tommy's death he still succumbed to that rage? He was also likely realizing he didn't want to murder the father of his girlfriend's child. Unbridled vengeance isn't a strength, it's a weakness that Sam proved he's growing beyond.
Really, the criticism of the writing regarding this is completely unfounded. Sam is not a bestial warrior of vengeance. This is never the way he's been written and the lack of him shifting into violent animals is absolutely no indication of poor writing.
Marnie is casting the spell that is drawing the vamps towards the barrier looked incredibly hilarious? The way they moved towards the barrier at first looked like something I'd see in a 5 year olds movie project.
But then again the barrier itself and when things were put inside the barrier looked pretty awesome.
Marnie is casting the spell that is drawing the vamps towards the barrier looked incredibly hilarious? The way they moved towards the barrier at first looked like something I'd see in a 5 year olds movie project.
But then again the barrier itself and when things were put inside the barrier looked pretty awesome.
Pretty much, he hit every solid point as to why I love Sam and still think he's the best character on this show.
earlier in this thread I said that in the most recent episode Sam's subplot was the only captivating point since witch vs vampire was painfully stupid. This man has articulated my thoughts. Thank you Lucid.
Did multiple people seriously miss the point of Sam's encounter with Marcus? He was bad ass because he brought himself out of a murderous rage. Turning himself into some crazy animal would be decidedly not badass, and run contrary to Sam's growth and development as a character. A major part of his arc for the last two seasons has been to come to terms with his past and the negative emotions it brings up in him like rage/anger. Him being brought to the brink with Marcus after his brother was killed was probably one of the most fulfilling culminations of a character arc in this show.
Last season he shot Tommy out of rage, what would he have learned if after Tommy's death he still succumbed to that rage? He was also likely realizing he didn't want to murder the father of his girlfriend's child. Unbridled vengeance isn't a strength, it's a weakness that Sam proved he's growing beyond.
Really, the criticism of the writing regarding this is completely unfounded. Sam is not a bestial warrior of vengeance. This is never the way he's been written and the lack of him shifting into violent animals is absolutely no indication of poor writing.
Fuck that. They still could have had him spare Marcus in the end and all of the character development would have been exactly the same. The only thing the complete lack of shifting proved is that either the writers are too inept to write for an even halfway decent shifter character, or just completely unwilling to make use of the character's abilities.
I'm starting to question why they even included shifters in the first place. It's starting to feel like the only reason for Sam's supernatural ability was for the single useful thing he's ever done with them (turning into the bull). They could have completely removed his powers (except for the deus ex machina bullshit to end season 2) and absolutely nothing would have been lost. He could have just been a normal guy dealing with anger issues and absolutely everything would have been exactly the same.
Did multiple people seriously miss the point of Sam's encounter with Marcus? He was bad ass because he brought himself out of a murderous rage. Turning himself into some crazy animal would be decidedly not badass, and run contrary to Sam's growth and development as a character. A major part of his arc for the last two seasons has been to come to terms with his past and the negative emotions it brings up in him like rage/anger. Him being brought to the brink with Marcus after his brother was killed was probably one of the most fulfilling culminations of a character arc in this show.
Last season he shot Tommy out of rage, what would he have learned if after Tommy's death he still succumbed to that rage? He was also likely realizing he didn't want to murder the father of his girlfriend's child. Unbridled vengeance isn't a strength, it's a weakness that Sam proved he's growing beyond.
Really, the criticism of the writing regarding this is completely unfounded. Sam is not a bestial warrior of vengeance. This is never the way he's been written and the lack of him shifting into violent animals is absolutely no indication of poor writing.
Fuck that. They still could have had him spare Marcus in the end and all of the character development would have been exactly the same. The only thing the complete lack of shifting proved is that either the writers are too inept to write for an even halfway decent shifter character, or just completely unwilling to make use of the character's abilities.
I'm starting to question why they even included shifters in the first place. It's starting to feel like the only reason for Sam's supernatural ability was for the single useful thing he's ever done with them (turning into the bull). They could have completely removed his powers (except for the deus ex machina bullshit to end season 2) and absolutely nothing would have been lost. He could have just been a normal guy dealing with anger issues and absolutely everything would have been exactly the same.
No, it wouldn't have been the same at all. Sam likely wouldn't have been able to maintain control if he turned into a raging beast. It carries the risk of bringing him back down the path he doesn't want to go down.
I think you just don't get Sam as a character or something. His shifting abilities have always been a backdrop for his personal development as a human being. Shifting into animals gives him an outside perspective and pulls him away from the belonging he craves. He is the kind hearted guy with an inner beast, except he doesn't want to be the beast he just wants to be an average likable fellow. He enjoys turning into things like horses and dogs because they're animals that humans get along with and he gets a sort of freedom. Running around mauling people would not be conducive to the kind of person Sam desires to be.
His shifting abilities work as an interesting visual metaphor for the struggles he goes through. This is what all of the super powers on this series are. They exist to add some dynamic elements to an otherwise not so interesting tale of romance and drama. Sam has by far been the most interesting character(to me anyways) out of the main characters.
Basically, Sam isn't what you want him to be. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the writing being poor and everything to do with what you want not happening.
Lucid on
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
@Lucid - I think I speak for everyone when I say that I think you should join the writing staff for True Blood.
Because I think you understand the character of Sam better than they do. Or at least better than they convey.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
When has Sam, as a character, ever used shifting to solve his problems unless he has no other choice?
It's bean beaten to death but he doesn't want to use shifting as a tool of violence (because that's what were's do). I know everyone wants Sam to be a goddamn superhero or something, but that's not what he is. If Sam turned into a gorilla and beat the shit out of Marcus it would be so completely out of character for him.
So we'll just go with being a moron is in character for him. That's not an ok outlook on life- 'I don't want to accept who I am and get myself killed'. But I think the main reason he doesn't do anything is purely budget reasons, True Blood is not about deep character development.
Did multiple people seriously miss the point of Sam's encounter with Marcus? He was bad ass because he brought himself out of a murderous rage. Turning himself into some crazy animal would be decidedly not badass, and run contrary to Sam's growth and development as a character. A major part of his arc for the last two seasons has been to come to terms with his past and the negative emotions it brings up in him like rage/anger. Him being brought to the brink with Marcus after his brother was killed was probably one of the most fulfilling culminations of a character arc in this show.
Last season he shot Tommy out of rage, what would he have learned if after Tommy's death he still succumbed to that rage? He was also likely realizing he didn't want to murder the father of his girlfriend's child. Unbridled vengeance isn't a strength, it's a weakness that Sam proved he's growing beyond.
Really, the criticism of the writing regarding this is completely unfounded. Sam is not a bestial warrior of vengeance. This is never the way he's been written and the lack of him shifting into violent animals is absolutely no indication of poor writing.
Fuck that. They still could have had him spare Marcus in the end and all of the character development would have been exactly the same. The only thing the complete lack of shifting proved is that either the writers are too inept to write for an even halfway decent shifter character, or just completely unwilling to make use of the character's abilities.
I'm starting to question why they even included shifters in the first place. It's starting to feel like the only reason for Sam's supernatural ability was for the single useful thing he's ever done with them (turning into the bull). They could have completely removed his powers (except for the deus ex machina bullshit to end season 2) and absolutely nothing would have been lost. He could have just been a normal guy dealing with anger issues and absolutely everything would have been exactly the same.
No, it wouldn't have been the same at all. Sam likely wouldn't have been able to maintain control if he turned into a raging beast. It carries the risk of bringing him back down the path he doesn't want to go down.
I think you just don't get Sam as a character or something. His shifting abilities have always been a backdrop for his personal development as a human being. Shifting into animals gives him an outside perspective and pulls him away from the belonging he craves. He is the kind hearted guy with an inner beast, except he doesn't want to be the beast he just wants to be an average likable fellow. He enjoys turning into things like horses and dogs because they're animals that humans get along with and he gets a sort of freedom. Running around mauling people would not be conducive to the kind of person Sam desires to be.
His shifting abilities work as an interesting visual metaphor for the struggles he goes through. This is what all of the super powers on this series are. They exist to add some dynamic elements to an otherwise not so interesting tale of romance and drama. Sam has by far been the most interesting character(to me anyways) out of the main characters.
Basically, Sam isn't what you want him to be. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the writing being poor and everything to do with what you want not happening.
Actually, if he had shifted and still been able to control himself enough to spare Marcus, I think that point would have been made even stronger. He has an inner beast whether he likes it or not. Being able to control that beast would demonstrate his growth and desire to be better far more than just hide it away in some dark corner does.
There is absolutely nothing gained from him refusing to shift. Absolutely everything they want to convey could have just as easily been done with him shifting. The only thing their refusal to use his ability in any interesting way does is allow what could be the most interesting and visually compelling abilities in the entire show go completely to waste.
There was nothing leading up to his confrontation with Marcus to suggest he could even come close to controlling himself as a violent animal. He has next to no experience in that regard as far as we know. He can barely control himself as a person when he gets really angry. He previously beat that were panther guy near death with his fists.
They wouldn't have been able to convey Sam rising above his anger if he shifted.
I mean, you seem to feel that the only visually interesting way to show his abilities are through violence. I think there's been a few times where I've thought his shapeshifting has looked interesting in a non violent manner. Sure things can look good one way, but they can also look good another way.
Before he stabs Maryann as a bull;
Also when he's a horse with his shapeshifting anger management group;
Both of which just costed the price of hiring an animal for half the day/night. So Sam is just cheap. Well, guess the Bull did something, but they probably already had tons of fake blood lying around.
So we'll just go with being a moron is in character for him. That's not an ok outlook on life- 'I don't want to accept who I am and get myself killed'. But I think the main reason he doesn't do anything is purely budget reasons, Tue Blood is not about deep character development.
So should he have just shot Marcus in the face? Because if he turned into the bull again Marcus wouldn't have had a chance in hell either. Sam was there for more reasons than just revenge for his brother, and he was not there to commit murder.
override367 on
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
So we'll just go with being a moron is in character for him. That's not an ok outlook on life- 'I don't want to accept who I am and get myself killed'. But I think the main reason he doesn't do anything is purely budget reasons, Tue Blood is not about deep character development.
So should he have just shot Marcus in the face? Because if he turned into the bull again Marcus wouldn't have had a chance in hell either. Sam was there for more reasons than just revenge for his brother, and he was not there to commit murder.
Right after he DIDN'T kill him he almost got killed for it, so of course he should have just killed him. There is no question about that other than the legal ramifications and if he cared about those he wouldn't have been there in the first place. Sam didn't go there to grow as a person, he went there to execute a piece of shit. And almost paid with his life for waffling. There's no being the bigger man in life and death. Sam just had a death wish or something.
The show uses real animals when they shift/were. So unless you wanted to see a bull gore the shit out of a wolf, what the fuck did you expect to happen? Get a grip, they did the only thing possible short of a super shitty cgi fight scene.
Ignoring the fact I've been saying that not doing CGI is the main reason everything involving shifters plays out like that there's also the fact he had a gun. I'm sure they could have thought out some cheap way for him to kill him with that. Maybe. Or perhaps with a knee.
At least he didnt stand outside the bedroom and turn to the were and go "are you prepared to fight this final battle?" "yes shifter" "ok we are prepared for this final confrontation of badassery" and then they run in the room and the door closes behind them and lights flash underneath the door.
this is pretty much how heroes ended with a fight between several characters who because of their powers basically became living gods.
Yeah, watching Claire watch the fight through a crack in the door was infinitely worse ... wait, what am I saying, its easy to be better than that crap and I actually liked watching Sam fist-a-cuffs with the were-whats-is-name-it-does-not-matter-he-is-dead-now because it was entertaining.
Just about anything is better than that non-fight between Peter, Nathan, and Sylar. And there were some good god damn scenes in that season too, the snap freeze move comes to mind particularly, what a fucking shame they did that for something everyone had pretty much been looking forward to since season one.
At least True Blood hasn't pulled that crap on us with Vampire fights and those have most of the same powers: flight, strength, speed, blah blah blah. Now I think I just realize what a further shame Heroes wasn't a HBO show, it would have been even sweeter with more boobs and dong.
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More so than shifters, it seems like the werewolves closely identify with their canine nature, but they act like men to blend in and make use of some of the benefits inherent in having thumbs and such.
Not complaining. The effects budget is a thing, and you've got to massage the characters to work within it.
I've seen this excuse a couple time now. I'd love to see a comparison between True Blood's budget and the rest of HBOs current & near past lineup. I'd be surprised if this show cost as much as Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones, or Deadwood (just to name a few).
but yeah I'd love to see figures like that on their shows over the years.
You don't get props for being "par for the course" just because you're writers are either too retarded or too inept to write a decent shifter character. It was par for the course, and I wasn't surprised in the least. That doesn't mean it wasn't moronic.
If they were fighting over a woman (as Variable thought), I might go along with it. But...
If you don't use your powers in that situation, you don't deserve to have them.
I'm done with Sam. He's now replaced Tara for most annoying useless piece of shit character in the show. Any and all plot tangents involving him will now be met with my eye glazing over likely followed by either a trip to the toilet or the fridge.
I'm going all cynical assuming cash and effort are the cause for sparse shifting, but if the characters in the book behave the same way, then that sort of trumps any other reasons not to have more shifting.
this isn't the type of thing that gets to me but I think it's a fair complaint for sure.
[e]Although
With as condescending as Marcus was to shifters, I'd say the former would be much worse for his ego.
There is absolutely no way to spin that scene that excuses it other than incompetent writing.
I mean, I realize none of the characters can be happy, but come on.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Last season he shot Tommy out of rage, what would he have learned if after Tommy's death he still succumbed to that rage? He was also likely realizing he didn't want to murder the father of his girlfriend's child. Unbridled vengeance isn't a strength, it's a weakness that Sam proved he's growing beyond.
Really, the criticism of the writing regarding this is completely unfounded. Sam is not a bestial warrior of vengeance. This is never the way he's been written and the lack of him shifting into violent animals is absolutely no indication of poor writing.
But then again the barrier itself and when things were put inside the barrier looked pretty awesome.
Pretty much, he hit every solid point as to why I love Sam and still think he's the best character on this show.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
earlier in this thread I said that in the most recent episode Sam's subplot was the only captivating point since witch vs vampire was painfully stupid. This man has articulated my thoughts. Thank you Lucid.
Rocket Launchers and slow-mo, really?
Fuck that. They still could have had him spare Marcus in the end and all of the character development would have been exactly the same. The only thing the complete lack of shifting proved is that either the writers are too inept to write for an even halfway decent shifter character, or just completely unwilling to make use of the character's abilities.
I'm starting to question why they even included shifters in the first place. It's starting to feel like the only reason for Sam's supernatural ability was for the single useful thing he's ever done with them (turning into the bull). They could have completely removed his powers (except for the deus ex machina bullshit to end season 2) and absolutely nothing would have been lost. He could have just been a normal guy dealing with anger issues and absolutely everything would have been exactly the same.
I think you just don't get Sam as a character or something. His shifting abilities have always been a backdrop for his personal development as a human being. Shifting into animals gives him an outside perspective and pulls him away from the belonging he craves. He is the kind hearted guy with an inner beast, except he doesn't want to be the beast he just wants to be an average likable fellow. He enjoys turning into things like horses and dogs because they're animals that humans get along with and he gets a sort of freedom. Running around mauling people would not be conducive to the kind of person Sam desires to be.
His shifting abilities work as an interesting visual metaphor for the struggles he goes through. This is what all of the super powers on this series are. They exist to add some dynamic elements to an otherwise not so interesting tale of romance and drama. Sam has by far been the most interesting character(to me anyways) out of the main characters.
Basically, Sam isn't what you want him to be. That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the writing being poor and everything to do with what you want not happening.
Because I think you understand the character of Sam better than they do. Or at least better than they convey.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It's bean beaten to death but he doesn't want to use shifting as a tool of violence (because that's what were's do). I know everyone wants Sam to be a goddamn superhero or something, but that's not what he is. If Sam turned into a gorilla and beat the shit out of Marcus it would be so completely out of character for him.
Actually, if he had shifted and still been able to control himself enough to spare Marcus, I think that point would have been made even stronger. He has an inner beast whether he likes it or not. Being able to control that beast would demonstrate his growth and desire to be better far more than just hide it away in some dark corner does.
There is absolutely nothing gained from him refusing to shift. Absolutely everything they want to convey could have just as easily been done with him shifting. The only thing their refusal to use his ability in any interesting way does is allow what could be the most interesting and visually compelling abilities in the entire show go completely to waste.
They wouldn't have been able to convey Sam rising above his anger if he shifted.
I mean, you seem to feel that the only visually interesting way to show his abilities are through violence. I think there's been a few times where I've thought his shapeshifting has looked interesting in a non violent manner. Sure things can look good one way, but they can also look good another way.
Before he stabs Maryann as a bull;
Also when he's a horse with his shapeshifting anger management group;
So should he have just shot Marcus in the face? Because if he turned into the bull again Marcus wouldn't have had a chance in hell either. Sam was there for more reasons than just revenge for his brother, and he was not there to commit murder.
Right after he DIDN'T kill him he almost got killed for it, so of course he should have just killed him. There is no question about that other than the legal ramifications and if he cared about those he wouldn't have been there in the first place. Sam didn't go there to grow as a person, he went there to execute a piece of shit. And almost paid with his life for waffling. There's no being the bigger man in life and death. Sam just had a death wish or something.
Just about anything is better than that non-fight between Peter, Nathan, and Sylar. And there were some good god damn scenes in that season too, the snap freeze move comes to mind particularly, what a fucking shame they did that for something everyone had pretty much been looking forward to since season one.
At least True Blood hasn't pulled that crap on us with Vampire fights and those have most of the same powers: flight, strength, speed, blah blah blah. Now I think I just realize what a further shame Heroes wasn't a HBO show, it would have been even sweeter with more boobs and dong.
So adorable.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
What? I bought a snack. What.
Hahahaha
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