[Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
Just because it played that message in the last pannel before the ship exploded doesn't mean that Reed had
Rigged it to do that. Remember it's not a bomb, the core was breached. Why the hell would Reed rig the ship to explode via a core breach, and furthermore why so long after the Hulk had landed.
It was a likely a freak accident.
Reed's message is just the writer being deep and meaningful. Remember this didn't actually happen -- there is somone designing the story out there. Think about how much more powerful the scene is with Reed's appology playing as the ship's core is being breached as opposed to if the ship just exploded.
Is it just me, or does Namor looks really smugly pleased with himself when swimming away after blasting a hole in the ship... I don't know why, but it amused me greatly.
I was sad, Iron Man 19 and Heroes for Hire 11 where sold out at both stores I went too. (Well not so sad about Heroes For Hire...)
Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
jesus you are dumb.
Seriously.
Dude, "We're sorry, Bruce." was for dramatic effect.
What, do you think people waited a fucking month after Peter announced he was Spider-man?
Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
jesus you are dumb.
Seriously.
Dude, "We're sorry, Bruce." was for dramatic effect.
What, do you think people waited a fucking month after Peter announced he was Spider-man?
Obviously it's all speculation unless they write in the explanation.. but how is it far fetched?
You don't know how long the trip was supposed to take without the detour, so you don't know if the ship went boom premature or not.
And Reed/Stark's whole plan hinged on "Dude, Hulk won't be back".
They can't reach that goal by leaving an spaceship intact with a man who has close to Reed/Stark intelligence, doesn't need to breath in space, and can potentially outlive almost every person on Earth. All of these facts known by Reed/Stark.
Not like they can just have it shut down, nor can they simply leave it as is.
They had to have a plan to make sure he couldn't use anything but small scraps of it at best.
Seeing as how where he was going was to be devoid of all but some plants and animals, having it go boom was certainly a feasible option. Maybe it was supposed to take off after landing or eject the Hulk just prior to landing.. whatever, but it's certainly feasible.
EclecticGroove on
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
Then why didn't they have the thing explode on landing?
I'm about 90% sure they didn't blow up his ship on purpose.
My money's on Miek being behind it. As long as he knew his people, and his friends, were safe, I'm not entirely sure he'd be all that upset to have that entire planet destroyed.
I'm about 90% sure they didn't blow up his ship on purpose.
My money's on Miek being behind it. As long as he knew his people, and his friends, were safe, I'm not entirely sure he'd be all that upset to have that entire planet destroyed.
Eh, Miek's people where dead anyway remember... Brood is a maybe though. Although it really could've been an accident. I think its possible that stark and/or reed did plan on the thing going boom, but I think its very unlikely.
If this is a Hulk story, and not a story about people fighting the Hulk, then it will have been intentional.
And that shot of a pregnant Brood giving birth in Heroes for Hire is groooossss. In fact, that whole relationship between Brood and Miek is gross. Ew, ew, ew.
Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
Accident, man. There was a warning that the core was compromised, and the recording was the same one played for Hulk at the beginning. .
So its just a coincidence that the audio played exactly when it blew up. You know
Reed- "Im sorry "
BOOOOOOOOM
Too much of a coincidence. remember Cho´s outrage that Reed was dumb enough to put a warp core??
Cho- *outraged* WARP DRIVE ON THE SHIP? I ALREADY RAN THE NUMBERS, THERES NO INHABITABLE PLANET... SO YOU KILLED HIM. YOURE A MONSTER.
Unless you guys can explain why the hell the core exploded exactly after Reed said "he was sorry", Im not believing in "huge coincidence", especially after Reed and Stark smugly said that there´s no way he´ll ever come back.
They knew that intelligent Banner was there, they knew he couldve repaired the ship, and all things show that it was intentional.
Also, the reason the planet was destroyed was due to it exploding on a major fault line that had previously been weakened by an actual bomb. The exploding engine normally wouldn't have been enough to crack a planet apart.
Nope, the emperor set of two plates to open up, and Hulk held them together and joined them, before killing the Emperor.
Even if what you said were true, Hulk´s wife, along with the CAPITAL city, was wiped out by the bomb, there was a frigging mushroom cloud and all, so there´s still the blood of an entire city on Iron Man and Reed. But not that bothers fans of the two anyway.
Then why didn't they have the thing explode on landing?
It malfunctioned at landing, never actually landed.
Sadly it took a kid´s theather play to put it in the right position to set off Reed´s speech (the same one that was found earlier by Hulk´s science guys) and then after the "Im sorry", the core to go Boom, and kill Hulk´s wife, and an entire city.
Then weaken the planet enough for a chain reaction.
From the way Cho pointed it out, and from the way it exploded exatcly when Reed said he was sorry, I bet its intentional.
Even if it wasnt, Reed should know better, from NOT asking Bruce, to assuming that a miracle would happen and he´d send a ship to the right planet, to putting a Warp Core, to not remembering that the Hulk might break out, either he´s a killer, or a murderer by negligence.
I feel sad however that Black Bolt went along with the plan :-(
Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
jesus Im am an anonymous fucktard with no opinion, and cant read forum rules.
If this is a Hulk story, and not a story about people fighting the Hulk, then it will have been intentional.
Uh. What?
Isn't it more interesting for a character to have to examine his motivations? How would The Hulk starting this war with false assumptions make the story any less about him?
I'm about 90% sure they didn't blow up his ship on purpose.
My money's on Miek being behind it. As long as he knew his people, and his friends, were safe, I'm not entirely sure he'd be all that upset to have that entire planet destroyed.
This is "possible" But from the way I saw it, they were planning on showing the Hulk the recording again in the hopes it inspired him to start kicking ass again.. however, he then went off on ALL parties still squabbling and made them see how pointless continued fighting without a real reason was. Even the brood shed a tear for the dead and dying of the world after the explosion, and Miek was none too happy either. Miek may have lost his people but the planet was still his home.
Perhaps they caused the accident, maybe the Red king did, maybe the Hulk rampage/crash did it,maybe it was all of the above... all we have is speculation. Not that the actions/story have to follow logic, but as I said a few times, it was only logical that Reed/Stark plan for the ship to "take care of itself" as anything else would all but guarantee the Hulks return.
If this is a Hulk story, and not a story about people fighting the Hulk, then it will have been intentional.
Uh. What?
Isn't it more interesting for a character to have to examine his motivations? How would The Hulk starting this war with false assumptions make the story any less about him?
It would make the story worse!
I admit that there's a bit of irony if Hulk's return to Earth justifies his being sent away in the first place, but this is the Hulk we're talking about. He doesn't behave rationally, and he isn't going to care if he was wrong to start this and is, in fact, a monster. When he's pissed, nothing else matters, and he isn't going to stop punching Iron Man long enough to "examine his motivations".
Couple that with the fact that most people already believe Hulk is the bad guy in this situation, and the revelation that Iron Man was right is going to be a complete anti-climax.
However, if the blame for Sakaar CAN be laid upon Tony and Reed, it's going to be kind of a shock and will contribute even more to what could very well be the epic downfall of Tony Stark, something I'm sure Marvel is working towards (unless all the character's actions of late aren't meant to lead to a dramatic conclusion, for whatever reason).
And it wouldn't be the first time a Hulk story ended with the revelation that someone else was the real monster.
But then, if this is a story about fighting the Hulk, then Hulk is just someone for the heroes to rally against.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
I disagree. The whole point of The Hulk is internal conflict. Having him simply be the good guy is much more boring.
I disagree. The whole point of The Hulk is internal conflict. Having him simply be the good guy is much more boring.
But he isnt exactly the good guy here... while most agree that Iron man and Reed deserve the whupping, he still is going to take the destrcution of his city and death of wife by the reactor on New York itself.
So yeah, they blew his city up. The playing, Cho´s reaction when he found out about the warp drive, and Reed´s comment on making sure he´ll never come back show strongly that its their fault.
But its not the fault of the populace, who didnt even know this "Illuminati" was playing judge, jury and executioners above them.
Which is why Im glad that Namor´s also coming in as a third front in this war, after the surface world declared war on Atlantis, because after Iron man and Reed get beat down and Hulk starts taking it too far, I can still root for Atlantis.
Imperius Rex, say I. May Namor sleep off-issue with Sue again and all.
Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
Accident, man. There was a warning that the core was compromised, and the recording was the same one played for Hulk at the beginning. .
So its just a coincidence that the audio played exactly when it blew up. You know
Reed- "Im sorry "
BOOOOOOOOM
Too much of a coincidence. remember Cho´s outrage that Reed was dumb enough to put a warp core??
Cho- *outraged* WARP DRIVE ON THE SHIP? SO YOU KILLED HIM. YOURE A MONSTER.
Unless you guys can explain why the hell the core exploded exactly after Reed said "he was sorry", Im not believing in "huge coincidence"
Nope, the emperor set of two plates to open up, and Hulk held them together and joined them, before killing the Emperor. And Hulk´s wife, along with the CAPITAL city, was wiped out by the bomb, there was a frigging mushroom cloud and all.
From the way Cho pointed it out, and from the way it exploded exatcly when Reed said he was sorry, I bet its intentional.
First of all -- clearly theres no writer behind this story and noone is manipulating events for a dramatic effect. Hell it was probably the Reed telling Banner he was sorry in REAL time, not a recording! He probably remotely detonated it himself. While drowning kittens.
Seccond of all. Mushroom Cloud = Bomb? You sir need to do a bit more research. A mushroom cloud is just the result of a VERY large explosion. My guess is a Warp Core designed to ferry the Hulk to a completely new star system and planet just might pack a bit of a wallop if it is breached resulting in a catastrophic failure.
Thridly. We should all totally believe everything that a Hero Worshiping Super Genius Teenager who has Authority Problems says. I mean that's just sound thinking!
I disagree. The whole point of The Hulk is internal conflict. Having him simply be the good guy is much more boring.
The mere fact that he's going to be beating up people who have nothing to do with his exile precludes him from being "the good guy".
And what kind of internal conflict is going to arise from the discovery that the Hulk is completely, utterly wrong in this case? The same conflict that has been rehashed again and again wherein Hulk destroys stuff and Banner yells, "Don't destroy stuff!"
I'd hesitate to say Hulk is about internal conflict, even, since Hulk's internal conflict is a literal one that has very little in common with the literary device. Hulk and Banner are two different people, at least in terms of how they're written, so it's not quite the same as that dude in "Little Children" struggling with his pedophilia (or whatever other classic example you could produce).
Hulk is more a metaphor for internal conflict, so long as you're using the term in the classic sense.
Whether it exploded before when it was supposed to, or later, as it did, Reed still put it to explode, after the message, and he´d still have destroyed a planet because he thinks he is always right.
Accident, man. There was a warning that the core was compromised, and the recording was the same one played for Hulk at the beginning. .
So its just a coincidence that the audio played exactly when it blew up. You know
Reed- "Im sorry "
BOOOOOOOOM
Too much of a coincidence. remember Cho´s outrage that Reed was dumb enough to put a warp core??
Cho- *outraged* WARP DRIVE ON THE SHIP? SO YOU KILLED HIM. YOURE A MONSTER.
Unless you guys can explain why the hell the core exploded exactly after Reed said "he was sorry", Im not believing in "huge coincidence"
Nope, the emperor set of two plates to open up, and Hulk held them together and joined them, before killing the Emperor. And Hulk´s wife, along with the CAPITAL city, was wiped out by the bomb, there was a frigging mushroom cloud and all.
From the way Cho pointed it out, and from the way it exploded exatcly when Reed said he was sorry, I bet its intentional.
First of all -- clearly theres no writer behind this story and noone is manipulating events for a dramatic effect. Hell it was probably the Reed telling Banner he was sorry in REAL time, not a recording! He probably remotely detonated it himself. While drowning kittens.
Seccond of all. Mushroom Cloud = Bomb? You sir need to do a bit more research. A mushroom cloud is just the result of a VERY large explosion. My guess is a Warp Core designed to ferry the Hulk to a completely new star system and planet just might pack a bit of a wallop if it is breached resulting in a catastrophic failure.
Thridly. We should all totally believe everything that a Hero Worshiping Super Genius Teenager who has Authority Problems says. I mean that's just sound thinking!
Fourth- It was just a big coincidence is such a great explanation... reed is an innocent victim who happens to just have very bad luck... *roll*
Dude, again, evidence that Reed killed them-
-Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
-The bomb exploded right after Reed apologizes.
Not that I expect any facts from ye sods, Its 21 pages that someone claimed that Hulk ramapged without provocation and I have yeet to see a single scan, so of course youre goingto close your years and keep saying "it was just coincidence, and dramatic effect, Reed is good!" over and over, and not find any issue/scan showing otherwise.
But I could be wrong and you could post some evidence proving otherwise O_o But man, if this was a court of law, and you reed´s defender, Reed would be getting perpetual anal rape in prision right about now.
Hero Worshiping Super Genius Teenager who has Authority Problems
But in those scans he is right. Do you have the brains to porve any of what he said wrong?
Lok at those pages, prove anything he said there wrong, or continue posting theories with no evidence behind them in hopes that i forget you can prove a "hero-worshipper" kid wrong.
But again, I dont expect anyone to be able to, somebody also said a few pages ago that Cho was lying on those scans, and until now I havent seen a single thing proving so.
So-
1- Can you prove that it was just a coincidence, that reed´s "making sure he wont come back" wanst exploding the core, and that its just all coicidences? I´d be gald to read any comics you point out that say its untrue.
2- Can you prove anything that Cho said is incorrect? Again, I´d be glad to read any issues you point out, and change my opinion.
I want facts, based on canon, not theories. I await some actual defencse, not "OMG Reed kills puppies" hyperboles to drown out your lack of any proof otherwise.
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
The ship was programed to play the message when it was put in the launch position, as it did when they first fired Hulk into space and again when the kids accidentally put it into the launch position. If it had been an intentional explosion then it would have gone off when they first shot him into space.
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
The ship was programed to play the message when it was put in the launch position, as it did when they first fired Hulk into space and again when the kids accidentally put it into the launch position. If it had been an intentional explosion then it would have gone off when they first shot him into space.
Bullshit.
The ship he came in NEVER WAS LAUNCHED. He went to spae in a round capsule.
He went to space, left the capsule, saved the world from some evil satellite, then went in a ship SHIELD left outside, then the ship blasted off towards "Planet Hulk".
And we only read the speech in its entirety after his scientists find it, thus Hulk´s anger when he breaks the screen that he was watching the movie in.
Jesus, did anyone here read Planet Hulk?
EDIT- Here´s the capsule Hulk went to space with, when he was sent to save the wrold from some uber-sattelite-
Here´s the ship that he entered, after saving the world, and was sent to Planet Hulk. Notice that it NEVER launched, unlike your invented claims.
I´ll see if I can find scans of the page of the recording as played in the ship. Again, facts based on canon, not made-up replies and "its just a coincidence".
The message also played when Miek and Brood were (Ew, ew, ew) stepping into the ship to make (ew, ew, ew) "love". Now, unless you're going to attribute some special significance to that...
Whether or not the message was set to coincide with the destruction of the ship, though, is a separate matter from whether or not the destruction of the ship was planned.
Depends if reed says "he´s truly sorry" when they did it. O_o
Good point though , which issue is that BTW? (and how the hell did they "do" it?)
Now if thats true, we´re just left with -Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
I don't have the book with me, but it was definitely at the end of the Planet Hulk arc since Hulk was the king by that point.
And apparently they're compatible enough to create offspring simply because they both look like bugs, which more or less goes with the comic book logic that states any two humanoid creatures will have perfectly compatible genitalia regardless of the fact that they evolved independent of each other, light years apart.
I guess popular opinion states that the warp core was corrupted when they converted the ship into a monument, but only the top of the hull had been visibly altered (and that doesn't mean the Hulk portion was made from the hull itself, so changes to the ship itself could have been neglible). Furthermore, it doesn't really make sense to both use something as volatile as a warp core (a point referenced in the story, and therefore something we're perhaps meant to recognize ourselves) and make the area of the ship protecting the warp core so penetrable that people who were certainly much, much weaker than the Hulk could succeed in compromising whatever shell was in place.
This was essentially a prison transport for a very angry Hulk. Are we meant to believe that the engine, the one thing Hulk would need to destroy to halt his trip before reaching a very specific destination, wasn't designed to withstand the Hulk's rage-fueled super-strength?
Or that, somehow, being turned into a monument was more devastating than anything Hulk could have been expected to dish out?
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Depends if reed says "he´s truly sorry" when they did it. O_o
Good point though , which issue is that BTW? (and how the hell did they "do" it?)
Now if thats true, we´re just left with -Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
a fucking engine is not a bomb. just because an engine can blow up does not make it a bomb. my furnace can blow up, should i alert the authorities that i have a bomb in my basement?
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
I guess popular opinion states that the warp core was corrupted when they converted the ship into a monument, but only the top of the hull had been visibly altered (and that doesn't mean the Hulk portion was made from the hull itself, so changes to the ship itself could have been neglible). Furthermore, it doesn't really make sense to both use something as volatile as a warp core (a point referenced in the story, and therefore something we're perhaps meant to recognize ourselves) and make the area of the ship protecting the warp core so penetrable that people who were certainly much, much weaker than the Hulk could succeed in compromising whatever shell was in place.
This was essentially a prison transport for a very angry Hulk. Are we meant to believe that the engine, the one thing Hulk would need to destroy to halt his trip before reaching a very specific destination, wasn't designed to withstand the Hulk's rage-fueled super-strength?
Or that, somehow, being turned into a monument was more devastating than anything Hulk could have been expected to dish out?
the red king's scientists had been performing tests on the ship as soon as they recovered it. i don't understand how info like this can missed unless you guys are just looking at the pictures and turning the pages.
Also what CAN withstand a rage filled Hulk assault?
And even if Reed did rig the ship's warp core to breach when Banner/Hulk tried to launch it again there was no way he could've known that when it happened it would be in the middle of a large city killing nearly everyone, including the Hulk's new wife. Reed never meant to send him to that planet.
Also it was clearly it was built so that even with the Hulk in the explosion he would survive it. (everyone but him being dead and all when the thing went off). So Cho's assertion's that Reed "killed" Banner are false. If Reed wanted to kill the Hulk via a warp core breach he would've gotten a bigger explosion. As it stands, if the breach was intentional it was merely so that the Hulk would not be able to use the ship to come back to Earth, not kill him.
the red king's scientists had been performing tests on the ship as soon as they recovered it. i don't understand how info like this can missed unless you guys are just looking at the pictures and turning the pages.
I dont understand how you cannot even look at the pictures.
If the ship exploded because o them, it would have exploded when they were doing the tests. Read the pages I posted last thread page, it exploded 6-10 issues later, when kids were having a play ON it, after 2-3 issues of it as a frigging monument
Depends if reed says "he´s truly sorry" when they did it. O_o
Good point though , which issue is that BTW? (and how the hell did they "do" it?)
Now if thats true, we´re just left with -Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
a fucking engine is not a bomb. just because an engine can blow up does not make it a bomb. my furnace can blow up, should i alert the authorities that i have a bomb in my basement?
Haha, funny how your furnace can blow up an entire city, right? As well as a Shadow wife of Hulk who can withstand a direct napalming of a town. Nope it cant? So much for your furnace strawman.
-Cho said Reed killed the hulk, that Reed was a monster, when he found out the ship used a warp drive.
-It exploded with a recording playing, exactly when Red said he was "truly" sorry, although Hooraydiation says the recording also played while the Brood made love (ill read on that tomorrow)
-Reed said he´d make sure Hulk never came back.
-The explosion destroyed an entire city, and killed Hulks wife alongside many
The reactions caused an entire planet to be destroyed. Really, do you read comics at all? Read a comic, this is getting pathetic, having to correct you guys every other post... "omg coincidence", "ship was lauched", my furnace!" *roll*
Is it so hard following Hooraydiation and like posting facts based on canon? Ive made my arguemnet, posted scans, I dont mind reading a comic that might contain something proving me wrong, and changing my opinion.
I guess popular opinion states that the warp core was corrupted when they converted the ship into a monument, but only the top of the hull had been visibly altered (and that doesn't mean the Hulk portion was made from the hull itself, so changes to the ship itself could have been neglible). Furthermore, it doesn't really make sense to both use something as volatile as a warp core (a point referenced in the story, and therefore something we're perhaps meant to recognize ourselves) and make the area of the ship protecting the warp core so penetrable that people who were certainly much, much weaker than the Hulk could succeed in compromising whatever shell was in place.
This was essentially a prison transport for a very angry Hulk. Are we meant to believe that the engine, the one thing Hulk would need to destroy to halt his trip before reaching a very specific destination, wasn't designed to withstand the Hulk's rage-fueled super-strength?
Or that, somehow, being turned into a monument was more devastating than anything Hulk could have been expected to dish out?
the red king's scientists had been performing tests on the ship as soon as they recovered it. i don't understand how info like this can missed unless you guys are just looking at the pictures and turning the pages.
I don't see why the affects of the Red King's tests would be so delayed, such that a women could be impregnated in the interim between the tests and the negative results arising from them.
And are we supposed to assume that this hyper-advanced civilization doesn't know better than to mess with a ship's warp core, especially when warp drives are something they've undoubtedly encountered before in other ships? They can enslave the fucking Silver Surfer, but they're so inept that they're going to bang at the warp core with their hammers until something goes boom because that's their idea of science?
Depends if reed says "he´s truly sorry" when they did it. O_o
Good point though , which issue is that BTW? (and how the hell did they "do" it?)
Now if thats true, we´re just left with -Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
a fucking engine is not a bomb. just because an engine can blow up does not make it a bomb. my furnace can blow up, should i alert the authorities that i have a bomb in my basement?
True. But using an engine that can explode like that to transport a living engine of destruction is still insanely dumb. So at the very least, Reed is criminaly incompetent.
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
The ship was programed to play the message when it was put in the launch position, as it did when they first fired Hulk into space and again when the kids accidentally put it into the launch position. If it had been an intentional explosion then it would have gone off when they first shot him into space.
Bullshit.
The ship he came in NEVER WAS LAUNCHED. He went to space in a round capsule.
He went to space, left the capsule, saved the world from some evil satellite, then went in a ship SHIELD left outside, then the ship blasted off towards "Planet Hulk".
And we only read the speech in its entirety after his scientists find it, thus Hulk´s anger when he breaks the screen that he was watching the movie in.
Jesus, did anyone here read Planet Hulk?
EDIT- Here´s the capsule Hulk went to space with, when he was sent to save the wrold from some uber-sattelite- snip
Here´s the ship that he entered, after saving the world, and was sent to Planet Hulk. Notice that it NEVER launched, unlike your invented claims.
snip
I´ll see if I can find scans of the page of the recording as played in the ship. Again, facts based on canon, not made-up replies and "its just a coincidence".
I wasn't referring to the capsule, I was talking about the ship that sent him to Sakaar and exploded. I apologize for not making that clear.
Wouldn't the period when the SHIELD ship went from not moving to rocketing across space be it's launch? In any case, why would the detonation be triggered at launch? The point was to get Hulk as far away as possible.
Did the message play at all on his trip to Sakaar? I have read Planet Hulk beginning with it's second arc, because that was all the friend that I borrowed it from had.
And don't get pissed at me. There was zero hostility in my post.
My apologies, but Hulk never entered any "launched ship".
He went to space in the capsule, and after defeating the sattelite, this SHIELD ship appeared behind him
The ship that sent him to Saakar didnt launch with him on it, and the Hulk entered it for the first time in space, so the "play at launch" is incorrect because there was no launch at all... it flew behind Hulk, Hulk entered, it entreed warp speed and bye bye.
Man, remebering it... I still dont get why they never just asked Banner. :-(
Also what CAN withstand a rage filled Hulk assault?
And even if Reed did rig the ship's warp core to breach when Banner/Hulk tried to launch it again there was no way he could've known that when it happened it would be in the middle of a large city killing nearly everyone, including the Hulk's new wife. Reed never meant to send him to that planet.
Also it was clearly it was built so that even with the Hulk in the explosion he would survive it. (everyone but him being dead and all when the thing went off). So Cho's assertion's that Reed "killed" Banner are false. If Reed wanted to kill the Hulk via a warp core breach he would've gotten a bigger explosion. As it stands, if the breach was intentional it was merely so that the Hulk would not be able to use the ship to come back to Earth, not kill him.
Adamantium. The Hulk can't bust adamantium. Not necessarily reasonable, but it's just the most obvious example.
Even if you can't make something that will be guaranteed to stand against the Hulk's rampage, you make something strong enough to last until you get him to the planet. That alone should be too tough for anyone else.
Yeah, they definitely did not plan to destroy the planet. Nobody's arguing against that. Even without knowing a populated planet would be involved, though, setting the ship to blow does elevate their culpability to the level of being criminally irresponsible and certainly deserving of punishment.
Yeah, they definitely did not plan to destroy the planet. Nobody's arguing against that. Even without knowing a populated planet would be involved, though, setting the ship to blow does elevate their culpability to the level of being criminally irresponsible and certainly deserving of punishment.
Yep.
And on Adamantium, Cap´s adamantium shield has withstood every blow from the Hulk, and only dented a little once against Thor´s mightiest blow, so i´d say adamantium (the pure stuff) can hold him in.
AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
edited June 2007
"-It exploded with a recording playing, exactly when Red said he was "truly" sorry, although Hooraydiation says the recording also played while the Brood made love (ill read on that tomorrow)"
it's the message that played as he was launched out of the goddamn solar system. in the first issue.
Adamantium is tough and would do the job of being resilient enough to keep things protected so long as it wasn't directly containing him. Adamantium has it's limits however.
Check out the Future imperfect mini, the Dogs of War can crush Adamantium but they could not snap the Hulks neck before he literally tore the dog apart.
As far as I know the story, and all contained within is cannon... so while it's strong, get the Hulk mad enough, even Adamantium will break.
Yeah, they definitely did not plan to destroy the planet. Nobody's arguing against that. Even without knowing a populated planet would be involved, though, setting the ship to blow does elevate their culpability to the level of being criminally irresponsible and certainly deserving of punishment.
Yep.
And on Adamantium, Cap´s adamantium shield has withstood every blow from the Hulk, and only dented a little once against Thor´s mightiest blow, so i´d say adamantium (the pure stuff) can hold him in.
Yeah, they definitely did not plan to destroy the planet. Nobody's arguing against that. Even without knowing a populated planet would be involved, though, setting the ship to blow does elevate their culpability to the level of being criminally irresponsible and certainly deserving of punishment.
Yep.
And on Adamantium, Cap´s adamantium shield has withstood every blow from the Hulk, and only dented a little once against Thor´s mightiest blow, so i´d say adamantium (the pure stuff) can hold him in.
Isn't Cap's shield a Vibranium/Steel alloy?
Yeah, and since vibranium absorbs kinetic energy or whatever, it's the only reason why Cap's arm isn't shattered when blocking a hit from the Hulk. If I remember from reading the Wiki, though, the formula was never documented, so making a whole shuttle out of the stuff is out of the question.
For anyone interested, Newsarama's helping WWH: Gamma Corps' writer Frank Tieri introduce the members of the special group who's unique purpose was restored the moment the Hulk returns. To check out the info behind who seems to be the field leader, Grey, check out this link here. It also includes textless preview pages from the mini-series itself.
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Just because it played that message in the last pannel before the ship exploded doesn't mean that Reed had
Rigged it to do that. Remember it's not a bomb, the core was breached. Why the hell would Reed rig the ship to explode via a core breach, and furthermore why so long after the Hulk had landed.
It was a likely a freak accident.
Reed's message is just the writer being deep and meaningful. Remember this didn't actually happen -- there is somone designing the story out there. Think about how much more powerful the scene is with Reed's appology playing as the ship's core is being breached as opposed to if the ship just exploded.
I was sad, Iron Man 19 and Heroes for Hire 11 where sold out at both stores I went too. (Well not so sad about Heroes For Hire...)
I am a freaking nerd.
Seriously.
Dude, "We're sorry, Bruce." was for dramatic effect.
What, do you think people waited a fucking month after Peter announced he was Spider-man?
Obviously it's all speculation unless they write in the explanation.. but how is it far fetched?
You don't know how long the trip was supposed to take without the detour, so you don't know if the ship went boom premature or not.
And Reed/Stark's whole plan hinged on "Dude, Hulk won't be back".
They can't reach that goal by leaving an spaceship intact with a man who has close to Reed/Stark intelligence, doesn't need to breath in space, and can potentially outlive almost every person on Earth. All of these facts known by Reed/Stark.
Not like they can just have it shut down, nor can they simply leave it as is.
They had to have a plan to make sure he couldn't use anything but small scraps of it at best.
Seeing as how where he was going was to be devoid of all but some plants and animals, having it go boom was certainly a feasible option. Maybe it was supposed to take off after landing or eject the Hulk just prior to landing.. whatever, but it's certainly feasible.
My money's on Miek being behind it. As long as he knew his people, and his friends, were safe, I'm not entirely sure he'd be all that upset to have that entire planet destroyed.
Eh, Miek's people where dead anyway remember... Brood is a maybe though. Although it really could've been an accident. I think its possible that stark and/or reed did plan on the thing going boom, but I think its very unlikely.
I am a freaking nerd.
Because it never actually landed.. so maybe it would have.
It went down the rabbit hole as it were and wound up ejected directly onto a planet... that was pretty much the end of it.
And that shot of a pregnant Brood giving birth in Heroes for Hire is groooossss. In fact, that whole relationship between Brood and Miek is gross. Ew, ew, ew.
So its just a coincidence that the audio played exactly when it blew up. You know
Reed- "Im sorry "
BOOOOOOOOM
Too much of a coincidence. remember Cho´s outrage that Reed was dumb enough to put a warp core??
Cho- *outraged* WARP DRIVE ON THE SHIP? I ALREADY RAN THE NUMBERS, THERES NO INHABITABLE PLANET... SO YOU KILLED HIM. YOURE A MONSTER.
Unless you guys can explain why the hell the core exploded exactly after Reed said "he was sorry", Im not believing in "huge coincidence", especially after Reed and Stark smugly said that there´s no way he´ll ever come back.
They knew that intelligent Banner was there, they knew he couldve repaired the ship, and all things show that it was intentional.
Nope, the emperor set of two plates to open up, and Hulk held them together and joined them, before killing the Emperor.
Even if what you said were true, Hulk´s wife, along with the CAPITAL city, was wiped out by the bomb, there was a frigging mushroom cloud and all, so there´s still the blood of an entire city on Iron Man and Reed. But not that bothers fans of the two anyway.
It malfunctioned at landing, never actually landed.
Sadly it took a kid´s theather play to put it in the right position to set off Reed´s speech (the same one that was found earlier by Hulk´s science guys) and then after the "Im sorry", the core to go Boom, and kill Hulk´s wife, and an entire city.
Then weaken the planet enough for a chain reaction.
From the way Cho pointed it out, and from the way it exploded exatcly when Reed said he was sorry, I bet its intentional.
Even if it wasnt, Reed should know better, from NOT asking Bruce, to assuming that a miracle would happen and he´d send a ship to the right planet, to putting a Warp Core, to not remembering that the Hulk might break out, either he´s a killer, or a murderer by negligence.
I feel sad however that Black Bolt went along with the plan :-(
Corrected that for ya.
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Uh. What?
Isn't it more interesting for a character to have to examine his motivations? How would The Hulk starting this war with false assumptions make the story any less about him?
This is "possible" But from the way I saw it, they were planning on showing the Hulk the recording again in the hopes it inspired him to start kicking ass again.. however, he then went off on ALL parties still squabbling and made them see how pointless continued fighting without a real reason was. Even the brood shed a tear for the dead and dying of the world after the explosion, and Miek was none too happy either. Miek may have lost his people but the planet was still his home.
Perhaps they caused the accident, maybe the Red king did, maybe the Hulk rampage/crash did it,maybe it was all of the above... all we have is speculation. Not that the actions/story have to follow logic, but as I said a few times, it was only logical that Reed/Stark plan for the ship to "take care of itself" as anything else would all but guarantee the Hulks return.
It would make the story worse!
I admit that there's a bit of irony if Hulk's return to Earth justifies his being sent away in the first place, but this is the Hulk we're talking about. He doesn't behave rationally, and he isn't going to care if he was wrong to start this and is, in fact, a monster. When he's pissed, nothing else matters, and he isn't going to stop punching Iron Man long enough to "examine his motivations".
Couple that with the fact that most people already believe Hulk is the bad guy in this situation, and the revelation that Iron Man was right is going to be a complete anti-climax.
However, if the blame for Sakaar CAN be laid upon Tony and Reed, it's going to be kind of a shock and will contribute even more to what could very well be the epic downfall of Tony Stark, something I'm sure Marvel is working towards (unless all the character's actions of late aren't meant to lead to a dramatic conclusion, for whatever reason).
And it wouldn't be the first time a Hulk story ended with the revelation that someone else was the real monster.
But then, if this is a story about fighting the Hulk, then Hulk is just someone for the heroes to rally against.
But he isnt exactly the good guy here... while most agree that Iron man and Reed deserve the whupping, he still is going to take the destrcution of his city and death of wife by the reactor on New York itself.
So yeah, they blew his city up. The playing, Cho´s reaction when he found out about the warp drive, and Reed´s comment on making sure he´ll never come back show strongly that its their fault.
But its not the fault of the populace, who didnt even know this "Illuminati" was playing judge, jury and executioners above them.
Which is why Im glad that Namor´s also coming in as a third front in this war, after the surface world declared war on Atlantis, because after Iron man and Reed get beat down and Hulk starts taking it too far, I can still root for Atlantis.
Imperius Rex, say I. May Namor sleep off-issue with Sue again and all.
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First of all -- clearly theres no writer behind this story and noone is manipulating events for a dramatic effect. Hell it was probably the Reed telling Banner he was sorry in REAL time, not a recording! He probably remotely detonated it himself. While drowning kittens.
Seccond of all. Mushroom Cloud = Bomb? You sir need to do a bit more research. A mushroom cloud is just the result of a VERY large explosion. My guess is a Warp Core designed to ferry the Hulk to a completely new star system and planet just might pack a bit of a wallop if it is breached resulting in a catastrophic failure.
Thridly. We should all totally believe everything that a Hero Worshiping Super Genius Teenager who has Authority Problems says. I mean that's just sound thinking!
The mere fact that he's going to be beating up people who have nothing to do with his exile precludes him from being "the good guy".
And what kind of internal conflict is going to arise from the discovery that the Hulk is completely, utterly wrong in this case? The same conflict that has been rehashed again and again wherein Hulk destroys stuff and Banner yells, "Don't destroy stuff!"
I'd hesitate to say Hulk is about internal conflict, even, since Hulk's internal conflict is a literal one that has very little in common with the literary device. Hulk and Banner are two different people, at least in terms of how they're written, so it's not quite the same as that dude in "Little Children" struggling with his pedophilia (or whatever other classic example you could produce).
Hulk is more a metaphor for internal conflict, so long as you're using the term in the classic sense.
Fourth- It was just a big coincidence is such a great explanation... reed is an innocent victim who happens to just have very bad luck... *roll*
Dude, again, evidence that Reed killed them-
-Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
-The bomb exploded right after Reed apologizes.
Not that I expect any facts from ye sods, Its 21 pages that someone claimed that Hulk ramapged without provocation and I have yeet to see a single scan, so of course youre goingto close your years and keep saying "it was just coincidence, and dramatic effect, Reed is good!" over and over, and not find any issue/scan showing otherwise.
But I could be wrong and you could post some evidence proving otherwise O_o But man, if this was a court of law, and you reed´s defender, Reed would be getting perpetual anal rape in prision right about now.
But in those scans he is right. Do you have the brains to porve any of what he said wrong?
Lok at those pages, prove anything he said there wrong, or continue posting theories with no evidence behind them in hopes that i forget you can prove a "hero-worshipper" kid wrong.
But again, I dont expect anyone to be able to, somebody also said a few pages ago that Cho was lying on those scans, and until now I havent seen a single thing proving so.
So-
1- Can you prove that it was just a coincidence, that reed´s "making sure he wont come back" wanst exploding the core, and that its just all coicidences? I´d be gald to read any comics you point out that say its untrue.
2- Can you prove anything that Cho said is incorrect? Again, I´d be glad to read any issues you point out, and change my opinion.
I want facts, based on canon, not theories. I await some actual defencse, not "OMG Reed kills puppies" hyperboles to drown out your lack of any proof otherwise.
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The ship was programed to play the message when it was put in the launch position, as it did when they first fired Hulk into space and again when the kids accidentally put it into the launch position. If it had been an intentional explosion then it would have gone off when they first shot him into space.
Bullshit.
The ship he came in NEVER WAS LAUNCHED. He went to spae in a round capsule.
He went to space, left the capsule, saved the world from some evil satellite, then went in a ship SHIELD left outside, then the ship blasted off towards "Planet Hulk".
And we only read the speech in its entirety after his scientists find it, thus Hulk´s anger when he breaks the screen that he was watching the movie in.
Jesus, did anyone here read Planet Hulk?
EDIT- Here´s the capsule Hulk went to space with, when he was sent to save the wrold from some uber-sattelite-
Here´s the ship that he entered, after saving the world, and was sent to Planet Hulk. Notice that it NEVER launched, unlike your invented claims.
I´ll see if I can find scans of the page of the recording as played in the ship. Again, facts based on canon, not made-up replies and "its just a coincidence".
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Whether or not the message was set to coincide with the destruction of the ship, though, is a separate matter from whether or not the destruction of the ship was planned.
Good point though , which issue is that BTW? (and how the hell did they "do" it?)
Now if thats true, we´re just left with
-Cho screams that Reed killed him, right after talking about the Warp drive.
-Reed claims he made sure that Hulk will NEVER come back, leaving a ship intact doesnt ring a bell.
-Bomb strong enough to destroy an entire city, along with Hulk´s wife. Before bulsshitting, Hulk´s wife did not die of "fault lines", Hulk was holding her during the explosion, when the explosion was over, shewas dead, so was everyone around him
-The audio played exactly when the kids took out the ship to put a play for their king, and put it in "launch" position.
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And apparently they're compatible enough to create offspring simply because they both look like bugs, which more or less goes with the comic book logic that states any two humanoid creatures will have perfectly compatible genitalia regardless of the fact that they evolved independent of each other, light years apart.
This was essentially a prison transport for a very angry Hulk. Are we meant to believe that the engine, the one thing Hulk would need to destroy to halt his trip before reaching a very specific destination, wasn't designed to withstand the Hulk's rage-fueled super-strength?
Or that, somehow, being turned into a monument was more devastating than anything Hulk could have been expected to dish out?
a fucking engine is not a bomb. just because an engine can blow up does not make it a bomb. my furnace can blow up, should i alert the authorities that i have a bomb in my basement?
the red king's scientists had been performing tests on the ship as soon as they recovered it. i don't understand how info like this can missed unless you guys are just looking at the pictures and turning the pages.
And even if Reed did rig the ship's warp core to breach when Banner/Hulk tried to launch it again there was no way he could've known that when it happened it would be in the middle of a large city killing nearly everyone, including the Hulk's new wife. Reed never meant to send him to that planet.
Also it was clearly it was built so that even with the Hulk in the explosion he would survive it. (everyone but him being dead and all when the thing went off). So Cho's assertion's that Reed "killed" Banner are false. If Reed wanted to kill the Hulk via a warp core breach he would've gotten a bigger explosion. As it stands, if the breach was intentional it was merely so that the Hulk would not be able to use the ship to come back to Earth, not kill him.
I dont understand how you cannot even look at the pictures.
If the ship exploded because o them, it would have exploded when they were doing the tests. Read the pages I posted last thread page, it exploded 6-10 issues later, when kids were having a play ON it, after 2-3 issues of it as a frigging monument
Haha, funny how your furnace can blow up an entire city, right? As well as a Shadow wife of Hulk who can withstand a direct napalming of a town. Nope it cant? So much for your furnace strawman.
-Cho said Reed killed the hulk, that Reed was a monster, when he found out the ship used a warp drive.
-It exploded with a recording playing, exactly when Red said he was "truly" sorry, although Hooraydiation says the recording also played while the Brood made love (ill read on that tomorrow)
-Reed said he´d make sure Hulk never came back.
-The explosion destroyed an entire city, and killed Hulks wife alongside many
The reactions caused an entire planet to be destroyed. Really, do you read comics at all? Read a comic, this is getting pathetic, having to correct you guys every other post... "omg coincidence", "ship was lauched", my furnace!" *roll*
Is it so hard following Hooraydiation and like posting facts based on canon? Ive made my arguemnet, posted scans, I dont mind reading a comic that might contain something proving me wrong, and changing my opinion.
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The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I don't see why the affects of the Red King's tests would be so delayed, such that a women could be impregnated in the interim between the tests and the negative results arising from them.
And are we supposed to assume that this hyper-advanced civilization doesn't know better than to mess with a ship's warp core, especially when warp drives are something they've undoubtedly encountered before in other ships? They can enslave the fucking Silver Surfer, but they're so inept that they're going to bang at the warp core with their hammers until something goes boom because that's their idea of science?
True. But using an engine that can explode like that to transport a living engine of destruction is still insanely dumb. So at the very least, Reed is criminaly incompetent.
I wasn't referring to the capsule, I was talking about the ship that sent him to Sakaar and exploded. I apologize for not making that clear.
Wouldn't the period when the SHIELD ship went from not moving to rocketing across space be it's launch? In any case, why would the detonation be triggered at launch? The point was to get Hulk as far away as possible.
Did the message play at all on his trip to Sakaar? I have read Planet Hulk beginning with it's second arc, because that was all the friend that I borrowed it from had.
And don't get pissed at me. There was zero hostility in my post.
He went to space in the capsule, and after defeating the sattelite, this SHIELD ship appeared behind him
The ship that sent him to Saakar didnt launch with him on it, and the Hulk entered it for the first time in space, so the "play at launch" is incorrect because there was no launch at all... it flew behind Hulk, Hulk entered, it entreed warp speed and bye bye.
Man, remebering it... I still dont get why they never just asked Banner. :-(
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Adamantium. The Hulk can't bust adamantium. Not necessarily reasonable, but it's just the most obvious example.
Even if you can't make something that will be guaranteed to stand against the Hulk's rampage, you make something strong enough to last until you get him to the planet. That alone should be too tough for anyone else.
Yeah, they definitely did not plan to destroy the planet. Nobody's arguing against that. Even without knowing a populated planet would be involved, though, setting the ship to blow does elevate their culpability to the level of being criminally irresponsible and certainly deserving of punishment.
Yep.
And on Adamantium, Cap´s adamantium shield has withstood every blow from the Hulk, and only dented a little once against Thor´s mightiest blow, so i´d say adamantium (the pure stuff) can hold him in.
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it's the message that played as he was launched out of the goddamn solar system. in the first issue.
Check out the Future imperfect mini, the Dogs of War can crush Adamantium but they could not snap the Hulks neck before he literally tore the dog apart.
As far as I know the story, and all contained within is cannon... so while it's strong, get the Hulk mad enough, even Adamantium will break.
Isn't Cap's shield a Vibranium/Steel alloy?
Yeah, and since vibranium absorbs kinetic energy or whatever, it's the only reason why Cap's arm isn't shattered when blocking a hit from the Hulk. If I remember from reading the Wiki, though, the formula was never documented, so making a whole shuttle out of the stuff is out of the question.
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