Don't even need to state preferences here; those seem to change over time (and based on which set of Chaos Cards/Upgrades is in play), so the hosts take care of it as the game starts.
jdarksun, I'll add you to the newbie/regular lists. Since you're our only new player at the moment, you should get into a game fairly quickly.
I've updated the BGG stats thread with the Morrsleib results (non-Morrsleib games are in the database for the hell of it but I've neither created aggregate queries nor put them up). The 5p/Morrsleib Decks/Base Old World format (favoured around these parts) is better fleshed out, though there's still the big Horned Rat win-rate discrepancy that Rius and others have alluded to above.
Many thanks to Darian for the spreadsheet!
0
Options
blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
We started using the Morsleib decks on the weekend. After two games, I'm really impressed. Khorne pulled a points victory which certainly didn't seem possible in the base game. The other game slaanesh pulled a narrow victory by repeatedly dominating and then ruining a region that had five nobles in it including the keeper of secrets upgrade.
However, in both games the Tzeench player finished dead last. He just seemed to flounder around with no real tactical objective. It was the one guy both times since his first game as tzeench went so poorly he said he wanted another shot. But I'm just not really sure how tzeench works in the expansion.
Can anyone give me a quick rundown of Tzeench tactics in the expansion? I'm assuming that the plan is to pound out as many cultists as possible asap and try to stay out of the fighting. Use cards like havoc to render opponents offense inneffective, ruin quickly and move on. However a lot of their cards don't seem to support this playstyle. For example, what the hell is Glean useful for? If you play it on your own zone, you're just inviting Khorn to smash you. If you play it on anyone else, you're inviting them to move out. Is it used for provoking fights between opponents? Also, which tzeench upgrade cards are good and why?
Links to expansion Tzeench strategy guides would also be acceptable.
Wonderful Hosts Running Games
•stever777
•Darian
•FunkyWaltDogg
•pesky We love you All.
Wonderful Hosts that might start games in the very near future....
•visiblehowl
•SeGaTai
•Rorus Raz
•admanb
•Nought
•blahmcblah
We would ALL love to love you a little bit more.....
There are 23 players just wondering if you wanted to control reality.....
I haven't seen any good strategy guides for Morrslieb Tzeentch, yet, but here are some thoughts:
Early on, Glean is useful to give Khorne access to someone else's area (e.g., if Slaanesh starts in Norsca after Khorne is centrally established, you can drop a Glean up there for the big guy to chase him down). It can be used at any time to encourage others to join you to try to ruin a region by making it cheaper for them to reach you. And, of course, free magic symbols are always helpful.
The upgrade for Tzeentch which seems to be considered best on the BGG boards is Mystical Disregard, followed by the Horror. Tzeentch actually gets a lot more battle dice in the expansion, allowing him to fight back effectively against Khorne and the Rat, but you lose the ability to drag Warpstones for quick solo-ruinations, so you have to pick and choose your spots better. He still has the cheapest spells and the most cultists, and now he has the best defensive card as well (in the form of Havoc).
Dial wins are hard to come by in the expansion, unless everyone is throwing dice around to try to keep corruption down, and even then Khorne can use Vengeance/Bloodletter upgrades to pile up the points if the game goes too long and he is able to keep his bloodletters on the board.
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
edited October 2011
Convocation and the blue scribes can be combined for a similar effect to the good old warpstone dragging. It's how I won my second IRL Morrslieb game as Tzeentch on points. I ruined the Empire and Kislev all by myself. It was a 4-player game without Khorne though, so not totally representative. I certainly think Mystical Disregard and Horrors are obvious choices for upgrades though. With only 4 players I chose horrors, but in 5-player I'd go for disregard first every time.
My first Morrslieb game (also 4-player, without Tzeentch), I was Slaanesh and had a great start, managing one turn to get 12 power (!). However I squandered a lot of those on pointless cards, Khorne kept wiping me from the board, and in the end Khorne won on points even though he'd seemed the least likely winner all game. Bloodletter upgrade is insane. Nurgle was one hit from a dial victory! And the Horned Rat also might have won on dial that turn. Skaven tokens in every region. Crazy game.
It seems to be balanced alright with four so far, but I can't wait to try it with five.
AegisFear My DanceOvershot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered Userregular
edited October 2011
Should note that Glean is a double-edged sword that if used too carelessly can also come back to bite Tzeentch in the ass if the other Gods understand what it does and how it can help them move around (alternatively it can also be used as a goodwill gift for Khorne to allow his warriors easy access to other gods that have formed their enclaves in far off corners away from him that has some value diplomatically for Tzeentch). That and since he only gets three of them, using them too liberally early on might prevent Tzeentch from having as many options open later even if he's able to reshuffle his deck around Turn 6+. Otherwise with almost half his cards costing 0 PP, the strategy of delaying as much as possible becomes rather effective.
It seems to be balanced alright with four so far, but I can't wait to try it with five.
Well.... The balance really is different.
We did not want to wait, so we didn't. :rotate:
We play with a robot. (or Two)
Draw your powers, as normal, and make sure a Real Person (tm) gets Horned Rat.
Assign the unused powers to the relevent Autoplayer, and play with 5 powers.
The Autoplayers pretend to be playing the BASIC GAME.
Oddly enough, this really does not matter.
I have thought about how to make expansion Autoplayers, but I simply do not know the new game well enough. BUT. Having the board populated REALLY WORKS, and I am very much enjoying playing Expansion powers against basic Robots.
We have come across a couple of problems in the scripts, but, if you are willing to be reasonable, it runs fine.
It would be lovely if BGG didn't think I was evil, so I could edit them.
Things like targetting, Old World tokens and dealing with the new Old World cards were causing problems. Slowly those are being solved too.
I have a whole lotta ink on the real world physical Auto-Players that I should transcribe.
Anyhoo, I should have updated (expansion friendly) Autoplayers in a week or two.
Khorne is the best, TZ is by far the most interesting, Slaan is inobtusive, Nurgle is kinda dull.
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Eh, don't think I'll need auto-players. Pretty much all my friends play board games, so if we plan well it's usually possible to drum up enough players. And if we're only three we can always play Through the Ages or something.
Still, I find board game AI sort of interesting, if often extremely irritating (for example Arkham Horror, Merchants and Marauder NPCs etc)
hey ppl, im new to this, played a few games of Chaos and loved it( played 1 with the expansion cards).
How do we play this online? could any1 explain plz?
would really like to play.
do u guys use skype? if yes: amyr_lozober
On the boards there pretty much all play-by-post, so posting your moves as you go through the round with a host updating a board image for everyone periodically. We also use a handtracker website, conveniently called handtracker, developed by Admanb to allow each player to draw and play cards from their respective decks.
Looking over any of the current games threads gives you an idea.
Their's a waitlist to join the next upcoming game, which you can sign up for simply by requesting to sign up in this very thread right here
Always nice to pop back to the thread and find myself at the top of the list. I'll probably choose Nurgle again, although I am a tad unsure of how to approach him with the expansion. I have been trying to spread my cultists everywhere to drop some corruption and pick up dial tokens, but that seems to fall foul of surprise warriors. I guess I should have a relook over the spells and try to work out the best tactics based on how likely I can get away with multi corruption vs all my cultists in one region.
I'm sorry; places on the leader-board must be earned and authenticated through play in official games, with results as reflected in the official spreadsheet. I can certainly put you back onto the main sign-up list, though.
I'm sorry; places on the leader-board must be earned and authenticated through play in official games, with results as reflected in the official spreadsheet. I can certainly put you back onto the main sign-up list, though.
But I've won many games!
Many, many games!
:rotate:
Wonderful Hosts that might start games in the very near future....
•visiblehowl
•SeGaTai
•Rorus Raz
•admanb
•Nought
•blahmcblah
We would ALL love to love you a little bit more.....
On this note, one of the potential hosts asked if there were instructions for the board app. Here you go!
New games can be created in one of two ways:
1. The preferred method: http://appliednerditry.com/chaos/ lets you choose which powers and decks are in play, create a fresh game, and randomize the tokens. Unofficial games use any available number over 1000, while official games use smaller numbers but can only be created by accounts which have been promoted. The other fields can be ignored, or you can fill them with player names and a link to the game thread.
2. From an existing board, type a number in the box then click "Save as new game"; this creates a new game with all the same decks/player choices as the original game (and the current board state, which would have to be cleared). This feature is most often used if someone new wants to take over a given game to update it while the original host is unavailable. (Normally, anyone can edit the game state and export the board, but only the host or an administrator can save any changes.)
Once the game is made, you can drag-and-drop figures to the board from the boxes at the bottom. Cards and Old World tokens are accessed through the drop-down box to the right of the board by clicking on the appropriate category then dragged to the proper location. To the left of the board are a few mouse-over tabs which reveal control panels for:
* toggling the state of Old World Cards (bright while in play/dim if discarded)
* adjusting corruption and marking regions as ruined (for ruination, put a number in the box in the region)
* adjusting the scoreboard area (peasant totals, PP, VP, Dial ticks, DACs, upgrades)
-- peasants can be dragged into the box to place one from the board, but the only way to decrement the number of peasants a power has is through the control panel
-- PP can be adjusted using the arrows visible above Estalia, without needing to open the control panel
* adding or removing figure effects (drag a figure into the box, toggle the effects, then drag it to its destination)
There are also some toggle switches with buttons on the board, used to reset everyone's PP to their starting value (including upgrades), reset DACs to 0, and to clear effects from all figures.
The buttons below the board are used for game-state management.
* The Game # box is a drop-down menu to select which game you want to work with, and the State # similarly chooses which save-state within that game is active. Changes to those menus are confirmed by clicking "go".
* The next box is an entry field for a new game number, which is used by the Save as New Game... button.
* The Save as button creates a new save state within the current game. It changes to read Save as Game #, State #+1 the first time that either it or Overwrite is used.
* Export as PNG creates an image file of the current board, to save to your local computer
* Overwrite or Overwrite Game #, State # updates the active saved state with the current board
I generally create a new state for each round, then overwrite during the round, but some hosts create a new state each time they update the game in the thread.
Note: for ease of finding in the future, those instructions (plus some other notes from FWD) are now on the first page of this thread, in the third post.
The Khorne Warrior Upgrade from the Horned Rat is Broken.
Broken like a Politician's Promise.
A Virgin's Vow.
Or the Greek Economy.
The rest of the expansion is elegant & wonderful.
Scoring 38 points in 2 turns from one upgrade is just silly.
0
Options
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
Base set wisdom applies: try not to give Khorne targets. Run away or play defensive chaos cards. Also, kill some of his figures so he won't as easily get them all out. These tips brought to you by Captain Obvious.
I put it to you that any god able to destroy 19 enemy figures in two turns perhaps deserves to win?
No sig for you!
0
Options
Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
I scored 32 points in a single turn as Slaanesh in the base game.
It even happened here on the boards.
Sometimes the cards/corruption just fall exactly right.
0
Options
jakobaggerLO THY DREAD EMPIRE CHAOS IS RESTOREDRegistered Userregular
I once got to 70 vp with Khorne in the base game (unfortunately someone else won on dial the turn I passed 50. Probably Slaanesh, that dick). Unsure how many of those were in the same turn but obviously at least 21.
One incidental upgrade should not be able to provide THAT many points.
Provender of Ruin was borderline when it was able to score 9-12-15 points.
38 points from ONE upgrade is just stupid.
"I put it to you that any god able to destroy 19 enemy figures in two turns perhaps deserves to win? "
It used to mean Double Advance Twice.
Why does it now mean Khorne is on 77 points at the end of turn 4?
My group has only played a handful of games with THR, but Khorne hasn't won by VP for us yet. By default, he fucking can't though so any upgrade that is going to take him and his 4 cultists in that direction is going to require a pretty dramatic effect.
Posts
jdarksun, I'll add you to the newbie/regular lists. Since you're our only new player at the moment, you should get into a game fairly quickly.
Many thanks to Darian for the spreadsheet!
Two! 44 and 51 were both mixed. But it looks like you already marked those as such in the spreadsheet.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
edit: So skip admanb or jakobagger if you're doing a base game.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/149333/its-the-all-new-vanilla-flavoured-cf-secret-santa-2011#Item_35
I am.
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
We started using the Morsleib decks on the weekend. After two games, I'm really impressed. Khorne pulled a points victory which certainly didn't seem possible in the base game. The other game slaanesh pulled a narrow victory by repeatedly dominating and then ruining a region that had five nobles in it including the keeper of secrets upgrade.
However, in both games the Tzeench player finished dead last. He just seemed to flounder around with no real tactical objective. It was the one guy both times since his first game as tzeench went so poorly he said he wanted another shot. But I'm just not really sure how tzeench works in the expansion.
Can anyone give me a quick rundown of Tzeench tactics in the expansion? I'm assuming that the plan is to pound out as many cultists as possible asap and try to stay out of the fighting. Use cards like havoc to render opponents offense inneffective, ruin quickly and move on. However a lot of their cards don't seem to support this playstyle. For example, what the hell is Glean useful for? If you play it on your own zone, you're just inviting Khorn to smash you. If you play it on anyone else, you're inviting them to move out. Is it used for provoking fights between opponents? Also, which tzeench upgrade cards are good and why?
Links to expansion Tzeench strategy guides would also be acceptable.
•stever777
•Darian
•FunkyWaltDogg
•pesky
We love you All.
Wonderful Hosts that might start games in the very near future....
•visiblehowl
•SeGaTai
•Rorus Raz
•admanb
•Nought
•blahmcblah
We would ALL love to love you a little bit more.....
There are 23 players just wondering if you wanted to control reality.....
Early on, Glean is useful to give Khorne access to someone else's area (e.g., if Slaanesh starts in Norsca after Khorne is centrally established, you can drop a Glean up there for the big guy to chase him down). It can be used at any time to encourage others to join you to try to ruin a region by making it cheaper for them to reach you. And, of course, free magic symbols are always helpful.
The upgrade for Tzeentch which seems to be considered best on the BGG boards is Mystical Disregard, followed by the Horror. Tzeentch actually gets a lot more battle dice in the expansion, allowing him to fight back effectively against Khorne and the Rat, but you lose the ability to drag Warpstones for quick solo-ruinations, so you have to pick and choose your spots better. He still has the cheapest spells and the most cultists, and now he has the best defensive card as well (in the form of Havoc).
Dial wins are hard to come by in the expansion, unless everyone is throwing dice around to try to keep corruption down, and even then Khorne can use Vengeance/Bloodletter upgrades to pile up the points if the game goes too long and he is able to keep his bloodletters on the board.
My first Morrslieb game (also 4-player, without Tzeentch), I was Slaanesh and had a great start, managing one turn to get 12 power (!). However I squandered a lot of those on pointless cards, Khorne kept wiping me from the board, and in the end Khorne won on points even though he'd seemed the least likely winner all game. Bloodletter upgrade is insane. Nurgle was one hit from a dial victory! And the Horned Rat also might have won on dial that turn. Skaven tokens in every region. Crazy game.
It seems to be balanced alright with four so far, but I can't wait to try it with five.
Currently DMing: None
Characters
[5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
Well.... The balance really is different.
We did not want to wait, so we didn't. :rotate:
We play with a robot. (or Two)
Draw your powers, as normal, and make sure a Real Person (tm) gets Horned Rat.
Assign the unused powers to the relevent Autoplayer, and play with 5 powers.
The Autoplayers pretend to be playing the BASIC GAME.
Oddly enough, this really does not matter.
I have thought about how to make expansion Autoplayers, but I simply do not know the new game well enough. BUT. Having the board populated REALLY WORKS, and I am very much enjoying playing Expansion powers against basic Robots.
We have come across a couple of problems in the scripts, but, if you are willing to be reasonable, it runs fine.
It would be lovely if BGG didn't think I was evil, so I could edit them.
Things like targetting, Old World tokens and dealing with the new Old World cards were causing problems. Slowly those are being solved too.
I have a whole lotta ink on the real world physical Auto-Players that I should transcribe.
Anyhoo, I should have updated (expansion friendly) Autoplayers in a week or two.
Khorne is the best, TZ is by far the most interesting, Slaan is inobtusive, Nurgle is kinda dull.
Here is a current set of addresses....
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/624468/khorne-autoplayer-3-player-chaos-that-works
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/631721/tzeench-autoplayer-3-player-chaos-that-works
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/635930/nurgle-autoplayer
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/639852/slaanesh-autoplayer
In a week or so they will be MUCH better....
The Khorne Autoplayer is better to play against than most newbie Khorne Players...
Yup.
I think it is a problem.
Still, I find board game AI sort of interesting, if often extremely irritating (for example Arkham Horror, Merchants and Marauder NPCs etc)
How do we play this online? could any1 explain plz?
would really like to play.
do u guys use skype? if yes: amyr_lozober
Looking over any of the current games threads gives you an idea.
Their's a waitlist to join the next upcoming game, which you can sign up for simply by requesting to sign up in this very thread right here
Put me back on the list.
(...and on the most-wins list please, just for kicks.
How 'bout 101 wins? ) :P
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
But I've won many games!
Many, many games!
:rotate:
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
Any power is fine. Keen to play 5 player Morsleib deck, but I assume all games are that anyway.
I've read through some of the "in progress" games. I think I get how it works.
On this note, one of the potential hosts asked if there were instructions for the board app. Here you go!
New games can be created in one of two ways:
1. The preferred method: http://appliednerditry.com/chaos/ lets you choose which powers and decks are in play, create a fresh game, and randomize the tokens. Unofficial games use any available number over 1000, while official games use smaller numbers but can only be created by accounts which have been promoted. The other fields can be ignored, or you can fill them with player names and a link to the game thread.
2. From an existing board, type a number in the box then click "Save as new game"; this creates a new game with all the same decks/player choices as the original game (and the current board state, which would have to be cleared). This feature is most often used if someone new wants to take over a given game to update it while the original host is unavailable. (Normally, anyone can edit the game state and export the board, but only the host or an administrator can save any changes.)
Once the game is made, you can drag-and-drop figures to the board from the boxes at the bottom. Cards and Old World tokens are accessed through the drop-down box to the right of the board by clicking on the appropriate category then dragged to the proper location. To the left of the board are a few mouse-over tabs which reveal control panels for:
* toggling the state of Old World Cards (bright while in play/dim if discarded)
* adjusting corruption and marking regions as ruined (for ruination, put a number in the box in the region)
* adjusting the scoreboard area (peasant totals, PP, VP, Dial ticks, DACs, upgrades)
-- peasants can be dragged into the box to place one from the board, but the only way to decrement the number of peasants a power has is through the control panel
-- PP can be adjusted using the arrows visible above Estalia, without needing to open the control panel
* adding or removing figure effects (drag a figure into the box, toggle the effects, then drag it to its destination)
There are also some toggle switches with buttons on the board, used to reset everyone's PP to their starting value (including upgrades), reset DACs to 0, and to clear effects from all figures.
The buttons below the board are used for game-state management.
* The Game # box is a drop-down menu to select which game you want to work with, and the State # similarly chooses which save-state within that game is active. Changes to those menus are confirmed by clicking "go".
* The next box is an entry field for a new game number, which is used by the Save as New Game... button.
* The Save as button creates a new save state within the current game. It changes to read Save as Game #, State #+1 the first time that either it or Overwrite is used.
* Export as PNG creates an image file of the current board, to save to your local computer
* Overwrite or Overwrite Game #, State # updates the active saved state with the current board
I generally create a new state for each round, then overwrite during the round, but some hosts create a new state each time they update the game in the thread.
Broken like a Politician's Promise.
A Virgin's Vow.
Or the Greek Economy.
The rest of the expansion is elegant & wonderful.
Scoring 38 points in 2 turns from one upgrade is just silly.
But yeah, it's pretty good.
...38 points in TWO TURNS !
(Sure, he rolled outrageous dice. But that extreme is just plain dumb)
It even happened here on the boards.
Sometimes the cards/corruption just fall exactly right.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/147669/chaos-citow-game-51-nurgle-wins-take-that-old-world/p9
But that is not the point.
One incidental upgrade should not be able to provide THAT many points.
Provender of Ruin was borderline when it was able to score 9-12-15 points.
38 points from ONE upgrade is just stupid.
"I put it to you that any god able to destroy 19 enemy figures in two turns perhaps deserves to win? "
It used to mean Double Advance Twice.
Why does it now mean Khorne is on 77 points at the end of turn 4?