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Computer Build Thread: Old Dead Thread, Read New Thread
Alecthar
Alan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
Alan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered User regular
Welcome to the Penny Arcade Computer Build Thread!
Visit the Blog!
Welcome to the PC Build Thread, where we don't judge you for spending way too much money on printed circuit boards. Except when we do.
More seriously, the PC build thread exists to provide a resource for PAers who want to build their own computers. We provide advice about component choice, shopping for components, assembling the PC itself, and even a little bit of troubleshooting for new builds, if you're having issues. We also talk about new and interesting components and even dabble in talk about peripherals (mice, keyboards, sometimes speakers and monitors). The thread has a companion blog used to keep a lot of more in-depth informational posts on specific component choices and the like.
The natural question at this point is probably "Why should I build my own computer when I could just have a bunch of underpaid assembly line workers do it for me?" There are a number of answers to that question:
It's after you've answered those questions that the real fun begins. Below are some additional resources to help you out. Welcome to PC building!
Where to Buy:
US
Canada
UK
Australia
Build Thread Component Guides:
Processors and Motherboards
Video Cards
Memory
HDDs and SSDs
PSUs and Cases
Good Online Resources:
Anandtech - A great site with in depth reviews on loads of tech.
Tom's Hardware - Not my favorite site in the world, but their monthly roundups of SSDs, CPUs, and GPUs are useful, and they have some good comparison tools.
[H]ardOCP - Solid PSU reviews, and also some solid motherboard and video card reviews.
jonnyguru - Basically some of the best PSU reviews out there.
Overclock.net - One of my favorite non-PA forums. There's loads and loads of good info here, from optimizing SSDs to overclocking to in-depth information on motherboard VRM setups.
Visit the Blog!
Welcome to the PC Build Thread, where we don't judge you for spending way too much money on printed circuit boards. Except when we do.
More seriously, the PC build thread exists to provide a resource for PAers who want to build their own computers. We provide advice about component choice, shopping for components, assembling the PC itself, and even a little bit of troubleshooting for new builds, if you're having issues. We also talk about new and interesting components and even dabble in talk about peripherals (mice, keyboards, sometimes speakers and monitors). The thread has a companion blog used to keep a lot of more in-depth informational posts on specific component choices and the like.
The natural question at this point is probably "Why should I build my own computer when I could just have a bunch of underpaid assembly line workers do it for me?" There are a number of answers to that question:
- Knowledge: Building your own computer is a learning experience. To start with, you'll probably end up doing a lot of research on the current state of consumer computing hardware, along with learning a bit about how various computer components work within a complete system. You'll also gain valuable knowledge about the actual assembly of a PC, something that definitely comes in handy if you find yourself doing family tech support.
- Quality: PCs from companies like Dell and HP are built cheaply. Sometimes this isn't a huge issue. Intel, for example, doesn't sell a separate "from the junk pile" line of CPUs. Hard drives are generally of fairly consistent quality among manufacturers. However, depending on the PC, you may end up with a fairly anemic, or even cruddy, generic PSU, along with motherboards that are generally pretty limited in their flexibility and feature-set, and don't even get me started on the cases they use. Building your own PC gives you complete control over the quality of the components you use.
- Flexibility: A prebuilt PC sometimes comes with proprietary components, or in a case with a proprietary form factor with a weird sized PSU. When you build your own PC, you can select the components with an eye towards whatever degree of flexibility or upgrade-ability you deem appropriate. Because retail component design adheres to certain standards, you end up with a more modular system that can be changed more easily.
- Value: If all you need to do with a computer is browse the internet, consume media, and use productivity software like MS Office, there's admittedly little reason not to buy a pre-built machine. Building your own is usually more expensive than buying a complete system when you're talking about a relatively inexpensive machine. When it comes to a PC with real horsepower, though, manufacturers believe we're willing to pay a serious premium. Building your own Gaming (or Workstation) PC almost always saves you significant amounts of money in addition to the previously mentioned benefits.
- What kind of computer do you need? Maybe it's a standard gaming PC, or maybe you need an HTPC, or a Server, or even a serious Workstation.
- What's your budget for this project?
- What needs to be included in that budget? Do you need a monitor, keyboard and mouse to go with it? Are there components that don't need to be included because you're carrying something over from a previous PC?
- What are your performance needs? For games, what resolution do you game at, and what kind of performance do you want to see there? For professional tasks, what are you doing and what kind of numbers would you like to see?
- Do you have any partiality towards specific manufacturers, like Intel/AMD, AMD/NVIDIA, or perhaps specific vendors?
- Do you have any specific needs? That is, are you looking for quiet operation, small form factor, significant upgrade-ability, or other specific features?
It's after you've answered those questions that the real fun begins. Below are some additional resources to help you out. Welcome to PC building!
Where to Buy:
US
There are a number of solid online purchasing options available to US consumers. My personal favorite is Newegg, though there are other options like Tiger Direct, and (of course) Amazon. Brick and mortar buyers can find some components at big box retailers like Best Buy and Fry's, though I've found that prices from online retailers are significantly better than these stores. The exception to that seems to be Microcenter, which often has great deals on processors and motherboards in particular.
Canada
A previous thread recommended strategy is price-matching through NCIX. Newegg also has a Canadian site you can purchase from.
UK
Online retailers in the UK include Ebuyer, which apparently has a wide selection of components, Novatech, which also does custom systems and apparently has some fans in UK PC forums, and dabs.com, a site recommend by our very own Big Isy, who cited their frequent free shipping/free game deals.
Australia
Our very own Tef put together a very thorough buying guide for Australians:
Tef wrote:Online retailers (Australia-wide)
www.pccasegear.com - Based in Melbourne, these guys are as close to an Australian Newegg as you will find. PCcasegear are known for their reliable service and good RMA (returning faulty equipment) policies. They have a somewhat decent range of equipment, for Australia and while generally pretty cheap, there certainly are cheaper options out there. For people in Melbourne, you can also visit their store front and pick up the parts personally.
www.msy.com.au - A cheaper alternative to PCcasegear that is still reasonably reliable. MSY does suffer from a limited range and volume of stock on occasion. As of October 2011, they do not have a delivery system in place (in progress, according to MSY) so you will have to pick up the parts from their brick and mortar shops. Fortunately, they have numerous store fronts around the country, so finding one nearby shouldn't be too hard to do. Be aware that when you're shopping online make sure you set your store location to the store that you'll be picking the parts up from. MSY filter their displayed products based on what shop you've selected and it's very annoying to get to the checkout and realise all your parts are only available in far north Queensland.
Other Australia-based Online Retailers
www.mwave.com.au www.megabuy.com.au www.umart.com.au - These are some other notable budget PC shops. They'll ship anywhere domestically and are usually competitively priced. Do note that they're budget resellers (particularly in the case of megabuy) and their customer support and shipping status/timeframes may not always be as great as what you'll find from MSY/PCcasegear.
International Purchasing
An option exists to purchase parts overseas and ship them in yourself, thus avoiding the mark-up from Aussie vendors. www.priceusa.com.au is the only vendor the writer has experience with and therefore is the only one this writer is prepared to recommend with confidence. There are several caveats associated with international orders, namely that support/returns will be more difficult due to distances and there is a potential for longer lead-times on orders (though this is not always the case). Recommendations for overseas shipping would be that you don't order cases and possibly PSUs from overseas, as the associated hikes in shipping costs make this expensive (it should go without saying that you should do your own research on this point though, as it may be more cost effective depending on where you can buy domestically).
There also exists the option of organising a deal through the PA forums. This will be more difficult as it will require the forumer to takes reception of your goods and then ship them to you themselves. You will need to organise such a deal between yourselves and please be aware that this is an imposition on people and you certainly shouldn't expect people to firstly jump at the chance to help you out and secondly do this for you without some kind of repayment (*cough*steam wish lists*cough*). Moral of the story is that it may be an option for you, but don't count on it. It maybe be worth your while sending an extremely polite and well-written PM to the lovely JWashke (his PA forum handle) as he has mentioned that he MAY be available to help out his poor Australian brethren.
Purchase Support and Services
www.staticice.com.au and www.ausprices.com are two good price comparison sites that you can use to find who's selling what and for how much. The former is probably the highest quality of the two; just make sure you're looking at the Australian version (i.e. .au at the end)
While ostensibly a forum for PC overlockers, forums.overclockers.com.au has a surprisingly good quality sub forum relating to the state of PC part purchasing in Australia. They are a good location for solid advice on retailers (after PA, of course!). The author recommends against the Whirlpool forums, as their wiki isn't really up to date and the quality of posts is, shall we way, subpar. Their wikis and forums sections on networking and all things internet are fantastic, however, and are highly recommended for questions pertaining these matters.
Failing all that, send a mention or a PM towards Tef or chrishallett83, both Australian forumers, who are usually more than happy to offer advice.
Build Thread Component Guides:
Processors and Motherboards
Video Cards
Memory
HDDs and SSDs
PSUs and Cases
Good Online Resources:
Anandtech - A great site with in depth reviews on loads of tech.
Tom's Hardware - Not my favorite site in the world, but their monthly roundups of SSDs, CPUs, and GPUs are useful, and they have some good comparison tools.
[H]ardOCP - Solid PSU reviews, and also some solid motherboard and video card reviews.
jonnyguru - Basically some of the best PSU reviews out there.
Overclock.net - One of my favorite non-PA forums. There's loads and loads of good info here, from optimizing SSDs to overclocking to in-depth information on motherboard VRM setups.
Alecthar on
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Yup, smells like compressed air.
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Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
What's your current case?
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I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. I'm sure it is some peoples style but just not mine. I don't know why I thought I wanted a big ass window and/or all those LED's. Plus internal cable organization is nil. I spent too much time looking at folks here with their sexy 600ts. I want ones so bad.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
1 - P67 or Z68? I'm going to try and budget for a 120gb SSD, so the SSD caching on Z68 isn't really worth it to me.
2- I'm going with a 570 GTX with the possibility of getting another one in a year or so for SLI. What kind of wattage should I be looking for in a power supply?
I just want to know what to expect with this.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Playing Bad Company 2 earlier it was frequently around the 94 - 95 degree C mark, with a max of 98 recorded. GPU2 was a lot lower with a max of 73.
Should I be completely freaking out? My case is a Corsair Carbide 400R with stock fans, any suggestions on sensible cooling options for the GPUs?
If you don't register it within 30 days it usually only receives a 1 year warranty. Depending on the circumstances, though, they might just replace the card regardless.
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Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
1 - Just go P67. Quick Sync, though cool, is under-utilized, and SSD caching is only worth it for people who already have small SSDs that aren't suitable for use as an OS drive. Anyone else should just save up the 200ish bucks needed for a good 120GB SSD.
2 - 750W at least. No more than 850W.
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The top card is always choked somewhat due to the bottom card blocking airflow, so you shouldn't be at all freaked out unless you've seen these temps at that level with just 1 card. What motherboard are you running these cards on?
Whatever motherboard it is, your best solution is to direct more airflow toward the cards. With the 400R you could mount additional 120mm fans on the HDD cage. Make sure the airflow is in the same direction as the intake fans on the opposite side of the cage. If I remember correctly, there are mounting holes for this setup on the cage, but if not it's very easy to ghetto-rig with some zip-ties. Alternately you can place 1 or 2 120mm fans as intakes in the side panel, I'd call that a less optimal solution overall, unless the 400R's side intake vents are filtered.
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Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Yup.
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Motherboard is the ASRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3.
The 400R's side panel isn't filtered (nor is the extremely open and exposed top panel for that matter) so I guess additional fans behind the HDD cage is my best bet.
I'm not certain it has mounts there, but it mentions ten locations for 120mm fans (six of which are also 140mm compatible) so I'd have to assume.
The top is generally used for exhaust fans, so there's usually little reason to filter vented top panels. I would like to see them include some removable filters for the side panel mounts, though.
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With 120mm fans, are they much of a muchness? Brands, features etc... I can't really see much price or spec difference between any. Pretty LEDs are irrelevant to me.
Does it just work if you have a card in each of the pci slots on a sli ready mobo?
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
If you still have the box your motherboard came in there should be an SLI bridge in there. Unfortunately I dont know if theyre necessary.
ASRock Z68 Extreme3 Gen3
Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB)
Antec Kuhler H2O 620 or Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo
Crucial M4 128gb SSD
Samsung Spinpoint 1TB (carrying over two 1TB Western Digital and a 600GB Western Digital)
Samsung CD/DVD drive
Corsair Obsidion 650D
ENERMAX NAXN 82+ ENM750AWT 750W
ASUS Xonar DX (Dolby Digital Live for my MixAmp)
EVGA GTX 570
Comes out to $1340 including $50 in rebates and $100 in Amazon points. That's a bit more than I initially wanted to spend, and I wish I could cut out the sound card but I need something that outputs Dolby Digital Live. My current sound card, a Creative X-Fi Platinum, only outputs optical digital through a front panel that's connected to the card with a long flat IDE style cable. I don't think the cable is long enough to be routed cleanly through the case, but it couldn't hurt to try before I buy a new card.
I could probably go for a cheaper heatsink like the 212+ or the 212 Evo to save a little bit of money as well.
Just to double check, I can reuse my current Win7 disc or do I have to buy a new one? I recall someone saying I may just have to call Microsoft and request a reactivation because of hardware changes.
Wait, if you have a mixamp do you need a sound card? Your motherboard has optical-out.
Also, get a power supply from someone reputable, not Enermax.
Are you buying it all on Amazon? Check Newegg for cheaper prices.
You should be able to reuse Windows 7, you may have to call to get them to activate, just tell them it's a reinstall.
There's nothing wrong with Enermax, they're a solid brand in general, and that particular PSU is just fine, and has been reviewed favorably by a website I would consider reputable, with regard to PSU reviews.
Agreed on the mixamp, though, I think the Gen3 has an optical-out, and as far as I know there should be no significant difference in sound quality vs. an optical out with a sound card, but Minor Incident knows more about that stuff than me.
As for Windows 7, if it's an upgrade/full version retail copy, you'll likely be able to just install it with the key provided, and Microsoft will automatically invalidate your old installation when your new one goes to activate. If it's an OEM copy you're technically not within the EULA to re-install it on a new PC (defined as a new motherboard).
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That PSU did get a good review from Hardware Secrets, but if I were to get the Coolermaster Master Hyper 212 Evo instead of the Antec Kuhler that would open up some more options for power supplies such as:
CORSAIR Professional Series HX750 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010
SeaSonic X750 Gold http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087
SILVERSTONE ST75F-P 750W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256059
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Second question - do games get much out of quad cores these days, or am I fine sticking with a dual core?
Yeah, thats totally fine. I have a 200GB Seagate from 2005, a 640GB Western Digital from 2007, 2 300GB Seagates from god knows when (I bought them on Craigslist) and a 1.5TB Seagate from 2009 and there have been no problems what so ever.
This is true, but right now you will not see much (if any) increase by switching from dual to quad core. I just upgraded my i3-2100 to an i5-2500K and honestly could not tell the difference for videogames (in terms of FPS, even taking video with Fraps). So, that should not be a motivating factor. If you're doing other things (I run a lot of engineering simulations on my computer, for example), that's a better reason.
Yeah, was mostly asking to see if it was wort the extra $80ish for a quad core over dual core for a machine that currently plays league of legends and will probably next see Diablo 3.
well in the old thread someone had mentioned sound cards as about as effective as LAN cards but I would have to disagree. The onboard sound on my z68 board was really good, but sound quality noticeably improved when I put my OOOOOLD Audigy SB0090 in. Plus whatever processing I used to have to do with onboard is now..not done onboard so I can disable it (if I can ever figure out why my keyboard doesn't work until the windows logon screen...)
This is mostly true for analog audio. A DAC on an aftermarket soundcard (even a cheap one) will beat the pants off the tiny 15cent DAC chip on your motherboard, for sure. However, if you're going digital audio-out (like with an optical/coax or usb cable), there's no need to bother. The digital audio will come out clean and be decoded by whatever external speakers/amp/receiver you're plugging it into, and they will do a better job than your onboard DAC would.
I've looked through my stuff and as far as I can tell either my 460 didn't come with one or I got rid of it for some unknown reason.
Depending on whether or not I have to pay to have my current 460 fixed or not will determine if I get a second 460; but I would need this mythical bridge.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand