So, so wait... the IRNV, who's main use was to see through smoke (at least for me) can't see through smoke?
smoke comes from heat sources therefore an infrared scope should not be effective anyways right?
He's mostly referring to chemical, man-made smoke from smoke grenades or similar sources.
Which is called IR smoke in the battlelog
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
The problem with the IRNV is that since the game can't actually track thermal signatures the way they work in real life, they have to make it work by essentially using a texture hack. If it worked like it does in reality (tracking all heat sources, not just lighting up player/vehicle models), it might not be as bad.
I'm fine with thermal vision being only marginally useful post-nerf, because right now there's simply no reason NOT to use it.
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
Your team gets 2 jets (sometimes 1). There would be no point flying one if a single engineer (of which there could be up to 32 of) could take down something so limited in number and so valuable. It's all about balance, sure a skilled pilot can take out a huge number of people but it's balanced by being a high value target of which there can be very few on the battlefield at a single time.
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
The jets should become less able to shrug off ground fire if they try to strafe targets. Once you get low enough the SAMs should be a real threat.
The problem with the IRNV is that since the game can't actually track thermal signatures the way they work in real life, they have to make it work by essentially using a texture hack. If it worked like it does in reality (tracking all heat sources, not just lighting up player/vehicle models), it might not be as bad.
I'm fine with thermal vision being only marginally useful post-nerf, because right now there's simply no reason NOT to use it.
True, but modern IR tech can actually calibrate to a certain heat range, for example human body temperature. So fire and explosions will actually not light up, while a person will. The way vehicles and mines light up is a bit weird though.
If they are going to nerf IRNV that bad they should just remove it from the game altogether. Just replace it with a flamethrower so I can take care of the gardeners hiding in the shrubbery.
The problem with the IRNV is that since the game can't actually track thermal signatures the way they work in real life, they have to make it work by essentially using a texture hack. If it worked like it does in reality (tracking all heat sources, not just lighting up player/vehicle models), it might not be as bad.
I'm fine with thermal vision being only marginally useful post-nerf, because right now there's simply no reason NOT to use it.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. I'm not going to lie, I use IRNV, primarily because I feel like I'm at a serious and distinct disadvantage if I don't. I'd be more than happy to see if made less useful overall
Wait, so apparently IR is not nerfed unless you're getting hit with a laser, flashlight or smoke?
I still say leave the effect the same and make it only available for sniper rifles, with no center reticule. Or even better, make it a "binoculars" type gadget that takes up one of your equipment slots like someone else suggested.
Mandres on
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0Replace4DisplaceThe best girls are ships and guns.Registered Userregular
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
Jets that are too busy trying to dodge multiple stingers aren't useful in any way besides taking a few engineers out of a firefight for a few seconds.
You're also implying that jets are capable of teabagging everyone in an area.
We're talking about stingers, not SMAWs/RPGs. Tanks are easier to kill not only because they're huge, slow, and impossible to hide, but also because they are capable of much more havoc than, say, an Mi-28 Havoc. When a pilot and gunner in a Viper are allowed to go unmolested, they may total 30 kills in a match, and many of them are likely against tanks. But if a tank driver with Canister shells is allowed to run amok, he may tally over 50 kills, while capping points and pushing back enemies.
The idea of a vehicle designed to keep air away or kill it outright (the MAA) is perfect; sure, three engineers can kill a guy in a Super Hornet. But one guy in an LAV-AD or Tunguska can do what they do, faster, and without wasting infantry. And once it has driven away the air that is simply a nuisance all things considered, it can be used in the same capacity as a tank, minus some effectiveness against other tanks.
Fuck this game. I'm normally not one to complain about a game but this one has finally gotten under my skin. The EA servers or origin or whatever the fuck system they have does not work. I have had nothing but problems since the game came out. I get to play maybe 1 full game a night, every other time its 'disconnected from ea server' or my graphics go crazy or i just get a nice crash to desktop. I really hate that I'm just gonna have to accept that this game is broken for me and until EA can get its shit together and fix this stuff, i'll just have to stop trying to play for the sake of my sanity.
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
Jets that are too busy trying to dodge multiple stingers aren't useful in any way besides taking a few engineers out of a firefight for a few seconds.
Why the hell are stingers even if the game if they're not supposed to be able to harm jets?
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
The jets should become less able to shrug off ground fire if they try to strafe targets. Once you get low enough the SAMs should be a real threat.
Exactly, right now you have to genuinely try to get shot down by an engineer, like really you have to circle in a tight loop at low speed and not hit your flares at all. The stinger is pointless.
The SOFLAM would be a help, if it wasn't a pile of garbage
Fuck this game. I'm normally not one to complain about a game but this one has finally gotten under my skin. The EA servers or origin or whatever the fuck system they have does not work. I have had nothing but problems since the game came out. I get to play maybe 1 full game a night, every other time its 'disconnected from ea server' or my graphics go crazy or i just get a nice crash to desktop. I really hate that I'm just gonna have to accept that this game is broken for me and until EA can get its shit together and fix this stuff, i'll just have to stop trying to play for the sake of my sanity.
Not be 'that guy' but for 95% of us the game works just fine excluding the rare crash or disconnect. Is your system stable otherwise? Maybe try running memtest86 or another stress-test to look for weak links.
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WarcryI'm getting my shit pushed in here!AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited November 2011
The M26 Dart Launcher is fucking amazing, I just found out. One shot kill headshots from like 20m, on normal mode. Up close it is unstoppable. I literally crawled through the enemy bodies I was making using them as cover to shoot more mans.
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
Jets that are too busy trying to dodge multiple stingers aren't useful in any way besides taking a few engineers out of a firefight for a few seconds.
Why the hell are stingers even if the game if they're not supposed to be able to harm jets?
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
The jets should become less able to shrug off ground fire if they try to strafe targets. Once you get low enough the SAMs should be a real threat.
Exactly, right now you have to genuinely try to get shot down by an engineer, like really you have to circle in a tight loop at low speed and not hit your flares at all. The stinger is pointless.
The SOFLAM would be a help, if it wasn't a pile of garbage
You keep assuming there's only one engineer on a team.
I don't think this is the case.
The Stinger is where it was in the Beta. It took three rockets to kill there, too. And it was fine. You're much more useful picking up a SMAW or RPG and trying to take out tanks and IFVs than you are staring at the sky, hoping your missile kills a jet that has minimal impact on the battlefield regardless.
You keep assuming there's only one engineer on a team.
I don't think this is the case.
The Stinger is where it was in the Beta. It took three rockets to kill there, too. And it was fine. You're much more useful picking up a SMAW or RPG and trying to take out tanks and IFVs than you are staring at the sky, hoping your missile kills a jet that has minimal impact on the battlefield regardless.
I think override is trying to discuss this from a Rush Map Point of View. In Rush (Caspian, Firestorm, and Kharg) each side gets a single Jet which is the A10/Frogtfoot. Both planes have a gun that's well capable of destroying vehicles. The way these matches always play out is the two jets dog fight, one jet wins, spawn rapes the other jet if hes smart, and proceeds to rape the other team's armor. These jets are capable of making or breaking the match, especially if its the Frogtfoot that wins. Many of these maps are 100% dependent on armor being able to suppress the enemy as O activates the bombs. If I'm playing D and have a Frogfoot I effectively disable the enemies armor support because a single strafing run + Q mash allows me to spot tanks = me destroying at least two tanks per pass with just a gun. I ultimately have the power to shut down the enemy teams offense or defense. Matches ultimately come down to my ability to fly. Some of you say "STINGERS!" Stingers don't work. I strafe, I get locked on, and when the missile is launched I get some distance, flare, if they're still locked on and fire by the time the missile makes its way to me flares are back up. Worst case scenario is I get hit, I fly in the background for 15 seconds, and I auto repair before my next pass. Stingers have never shot me down and never will.
Credibility? Here's my jet stuff I'm well on my way to service star #2.
Now I haven't played on Conquest before so my opinion is skewed because I never had to deal with AA tanks before. However, in Rush mode Jets need a tweak or review because these maps are way to dependent on your team having the better pilot. Its not common that I don't get at least 3k points to a max of 6k to 8k points a match if I'm going unopposed. Overall, to say that jet's don't make a difference in Rush. You are dead wrong. I stop armor convoy's in their tracks and effectively force the enemy to hoof it. Even then with the buff to the main guns I can still kill infantry, just not effectively.
The problem with the IRNV is that since the game can't actually track thermal signatures the way they work in real life, they have to make it work by essentially using a texture hack. If it worked like it does in reality (tracking all heat sources, not just lighting up player/vehicle models), it might not be as bad.
I'm fine with thermal vision being only marginally useful post-nerf, because right now there's simply no reason NOT to use it.
True, but modern IR tech can actually calibrate to a certain heat range, for example human body temperature. So fire and explosions will actually not light up, while a person will. The way vehicles and mines light up is a bit weird though.
It's not weird at all. Metal readily conducts heat, thus metallic objects will usually be significantly hotter than the ambient temperature. This is part of the reason that the military finds thermals to be so useful.
The Stinger is where it was in the Beta. It took three rockets to kill there, too. And it was fine. You're much more useful picking up a SMAW or RPG and trying to take out tanks and IFVs than you are staring at the sky, hoping your missile kills a jet that has minimal impact on the battlefield regardless.
So your solution to planes raping the fuck out of your team and having literally no recourse is to... accept you have no recourse and just ... what stop playing?
override367 on
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0Replace4DisplaceThe best girls are ships and guns.Registered Userregular
edited December 2011
If an A-10 is doing work on your armor and you're spending every waking second trying to shoot it down, then just stop playing Engineer and do something productive like Support or Assault.
A good A-10 pilot on Caspian Rush can destroy the Russian's armor very quickly, but it can't do fuck all to the infantry. If you just ignore it and focus instead on the tanks breathing down your neck, you'll come out better.
0Replace4Displace on
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
edited December 2011
I do agree though, one stinger shouldn't effectively counter all jets and helos. It should serve as a "Don't fuck with me" warning. More than two is your warning to fuck
If an A-10 is doing work on your armor and you're spending every waking second trying to shoot it down, then just stop playing Engineer and do something productive like Support or Assault.
A good A-10 pilot on Caspian Rush can destroy the Russian's armor very quickly, but it can't do fuck all to the infantry. If you just ignore it and focus instead on the tanks breathing down your neck, you'll come out better.
You haven't seen me with rocket pods have you?
We aren't really talking about O balance. We're talking about D balance. Observe my A10 versus Frogfoot statistics. 134 disables in three hours. Btw, that does not include disables, which if we do I've probably gotten at least x2 the amount of disables than I have kills. In maps like Kharg Island where the attackers need to land beachside to launch an assault or Firestorm where they have to run a mile over open terrain to get to the bomb sites is just whacked out retarded if the Defense plane just disabled your ability to maneuver with armor.
Tell me, do you actually enjoy swimming for 10 minutes only to get to the land, get shot in the head, and redo that process all over again?
God, I hope they don't "fix" the infinite mines thing. This fucking game doesn't have much else that actually feels fun.
If they do, I hope they at least ungay the stinger or jav a bit.
Problem I have with the Javelin is that its not very useful unless you have a laser designator. I think the Javelin will fix itself as time goes on when more people get the final Tank Unlock which grants tank's laser designators.
Posts
Can't be accurate. IRNV nerf footage was posted from an official source earlier and wasn't that bad.
EDIT
NVM that vid was also posted.
smoke comes from heat sources therefore an infrared scope should not be effective anyways right?
you are correct: thermals cannot see through thick smoke. They can't even see through glass, and i'm pretty sure they can't see through water either.
He's mostly referring to chemical, man-made smoke from smoke grenades or similar sources.
Which is called IR smoke in the battlelog
I'm fine with thermal vision being only marginally useful post-nerf, because right now there's simply no reason NOT to use it.
e-honor!
God damn it I have a date to be a blue interstellar asshole on the 15th.
Why the hell should it take 3 dedicated people to kill a single jet? One person can kill a tank, should it take 3 people to kill a tank?. Right now jets are invincible to less than 3 people if they have the right setup and have a pulse unless they have an AA battery.
One person with a stinger should be able to effectively deny a jet from teabagging everyone in an area unless someone kills that person or the pilot sticks to hit and run attacks. In no other situation or vehicle in this game can you just kind of derp around with impunity.
The jets should become less able to shrug off ground fire if they try to strafe targets. Once you get low enough the SAMs should be a real threat.
True, but modern IR tech can actually calibrate to a certain heat range, for example human body temperature. So fire and explosions will actually not light up, while a person will. The way vehicles and mines light up is a bit weird though.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. I'm not going to lie, I use IRNV, primarily because I feel like I'm at a serious and distinct disadvantage if I don't. I'd be more than happy to see if made less useful overall
I still say leave the effect the same and make it only available for sniper rifles, with no center reticule. Or even better, make it a "binoculars" type gadget that takes up one of your equipment slots like someone else suggested.
Jets that are too busy trying to dodge multiple stingers aren't useful in any way besides taking a few engineers out of a firefight for a few seconds.
You're also implying that jets are capable of teabagging everyone in an area.
We're talking about stingers, not SMAWs/RPGs. Tanks are easier to kill not only because they're huge, slow, and impossible to hide, but also because they are capable of much more havoc than, say, an Mi-28 Havoc. When a pilot and gunner in a Viper are allowed to go unmolested, they may total 30 kills in a match, and many of them are likely against tanks. But if a tank driver with Canister shells is allowed to run amok, he may tally over 50 kills, while capping points and pushing back enemies.
The idea of a vehicle designed to keep air away or kill it outright (the MAA) is perfect; sure, three engineers can kill a guy in a Super Hornet. But one guy in an LAV-AD or Tunguska can do what they do, faster, and without wasting infantry. And once it has driven away the air that is simply a nuisance all things considered, it can be used in the same capacity as a tank, minus some effectiveness against other tanks.
Why the hell are stingers even if the game if they're not supposed to be able to harm jets?
Exactly, right now you have to genuinely try to get shot down by an engineer, like really you have to circle in a tight loop at low speed and not hit your flares at all. The stinger is pointless.
The SOFLAM would be a help, if it wasn't a pile of garbage
Not be 'that guy' but for 95% of us the game works just fine excluding the rare crash or disconnect. Is your system stable otherwise? Maybe try running memtest86 or another stress-test to look for weak links.
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/battlereport/show/8096877/1/244205757/
You keep assuming there's only one engineer on a team.
I don't think this is the case.
The Stinger is where it was in the Beta. It took three rockets to kill there, too. And it was fine. You're much more useful picking up a SMAW or RPG and trying to take out tanks and IFVs than you are staring at the sky, hoping your missile kills a jet that has minimal impact on the battlefield regardless.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
It's the name for the 40mm/M26 buckshot. Dart is another way of saying flechette.
I think he means the flechette spec'ed M26.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Oh. And give up my paddles? Fuck that.
why does it happen
I think override is trying to discuss this from a Rush Map Point of View. In Rush (Caspian, Firestorm, and Kharg) each side gets a single Jet which is the A10/Frogtfoot. Both planes have a gun that's well capable of destroying vehicles. The way these matches always play out is the two jets dog fight, one jet wins, spawn rapes the other jet if hes smart, and proceeds to rape the other team's armor. These jets are capable of making or breaking the match, especially if its the Frogtfoot that wins. Many of these maps are 100% dependent on armor being able to suppress the enemy as O activates the bombs. If I'm playing D and have a Frogfoot I effectively disable the enemies armor support because a single strafing run + Q mash allows me to spot tanks = me destroying at least two tanks per pass with just a gun. I ultimately have the power to shut down the enemy teams offense or defense. Matches ultimately come down to my ability to fly. Some of you say "STINGERS!" Stingers don't work. I strafe, I get locked on, and when the missile is launched I get some distance, flare, if they're still locked on and fire by the time the missile makes its way to me flares are back up. Worst case scenario is I get hit, I fly in the background for 15 seconds, and I auto repair before my next pass. Stingers have never shot me down and never will.
Credibility? Here's my jet stuff I'm well on my way to service star #2.
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/soldier/IamWaffen/iteminfo/jaSU25/235691528/pc/
Now I haven't played on Conquest before so my opinion is skewed because I never had to deal with AA tanks before. However, in Rush mode Jets need a tweak or review because these maps are way to dependent on your team having the better pilot. Its not common that I don't get at least 3k points to a max of 6k to 8k points a match if I'm going unopposed. Overall, to say that jet's don't make a difference in Rush. You are dead wrong. I stop armor convoy's in their tracks and effectively force the enemy to hoof it. Even then with the buff to the main guns I can still kill infantry, just not effectively.
It's not weird at all. Metal readily conducts heat, thus metallic objects will usually be significantly hotter than the ambient temperature. This is part of the reason that the military finds thermals to be so useful.
the reason I'm bitching about jets made flesh
134 vehicle kills in 3 hours
So your solution to planes raping the fuck out of your team and having literally no recourse is to... accept you have no recourse and just ... what stop playing?
A good A-10 pilot on Caspian Rush can destroy the Russian's armor very quickly, but it can't do fuck all to the infantry. If you just ignore it and focus instead on the tanks breathing down your neck, you'll come out better.
You haven't seen me with rocket pods have you?
We aren't really talking about O balance. We're talking about D balance. Observe my A10 versus Frogfoot statistics. 134 disables in three hours. Btw, that does not include disables, which if we do I've probably gotten at least x2 the amount of disables than I have kills. In maps like Kharg Island where the attackers need to land beachside to launch an assault or Firestorm where they have to run a mile over open terrain to get to the bomb sites is just whacked out retarded if the Defense plane just disabled your ability to maneuver with armor.
Tell me, do you actually enjoy swimming for 10 minutes only to get to the land, get shot in the head, and redo that process all over again?
If they do, I hope they at least ungay the stinger or jav a bit.
Problem I have with the Javelin is that its not very useful unless you have a laser designator. I think the Javelin will fix itself as time goes on when more people get the final Tank Unlock which grants tank's laser designators.