I was raised Catholic and I find it incredibly distressing whenever I hear about stuff like this. It's hard to believe that an environment that gave me a lot of support and helped me develop as a person can be tied to an organisation guilty of committing and covering up some of the most heinous acts a person can do.
The Roman Catholic Church is a sovereign state with over a billion members. Given they include somwhere between 1/6th to 1/7th of the world population I'd expect some shitty members.
I think even you know the difference between patronage and hierarchy.
A guy shooting his family isn't the same crime as the NRA suppressing media coverage of a guy shooting his family.
I was raised Catholic and I find it incredibly distressing whenever I hear about stuff like this. It's hard to believe that an environment that gave me a lot of support and helped me develop as a person can be tied to an organisation guilty of committing and covering up some of the most heinous acts a person can do.
The Roman Catholic Church is a sovereign state with over a billion members. Given they include somwhere between 1/6th to 1/7th of the world population I'd expect some shitty members.
I think even you know the difference between patronage and hierarchy.
A guy shooting his family isn't the same crime as the NRA suppressing media coverage of a guy shooting his family.
I was speaking more to the idea that there could be corruption or such in the Church, probably could have worded better.
As a note, at least in a Western New York parish, the "These are the warning signs, if you see them CONTACT POLICE IMMEDIATELY, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200" form of training is a thing. My father went through that and had to keep it up yearly when he was an active CCD instructor, and the priest stated that he was going through it as well.
Admittedly, the Vatican is doing a piss-poor job of, well, everything, but to say, as a whole, that the Catholic Church is doing nothing isn't exactly true.
It does need to do more. A lot more. Way more than it's doing. There will be no argument with that fact from me.
It's really tempting to treat the Church as a monolith, and in reality, this just isn't the case. The Vatican has a lot less influence on day to day parish life than most people think.
I'm one of those people who was raised Catholic and no longer practice. My dad does, however, and is both a lawyer and on the parish council. From what I can glean, even in a relatively small Canadian province, the responses are absolutely all over the map. There's an Archdiocese and two Dioceses being represented. All of them are either dealing with or have had to deal with sex abuse cases. There are parishes that take things completely seriously and comply with all the guidelines regarding protecting children. There are parishes that try to do this, but simply don't have the resources to make it happen. And then, right next door, you'll find a parish where everyone seems to be absolutely convinced that the whole thing is a result of Satan and the Liberal Media tag-teaming the Church.
The Diocese of Antigonish is the perfect case in point of this. The Church had been implicated in a number of abuse cases going back to the 1950s. The stance that they took was a textbook model of how they were supposed to respond. Often we've heard of highly antagonistic actions designed to perpetrate a cover-up. In this case, the Church took a highly conciliatory stand and worked with the victims to help ensure their needs were met. They ultimately settled for $15 million. The Bishop who handled all this, Raymond Lahey, was held up as an example of how to resolve these situations correctly. And then, in 2009, he was caught smuggling a load (several removable hard drives worth) of child porn into the country.
It's just a complete gong show, and the whole issue is fraught with ethical problems. What both this and the Africa situation have in common, I think, is that, for whatever good or ill the Church does, the institution itself is sick. It's fundamentally at odds with how people, at least in the Western world, would choose to set up an organization these days. I think that these problems with the organization are ultimately why these problems get so out of control.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I was raised Catholic and I find it incredibly distressing whenever I hear about stuff like this. It's hard to believe that an environment that gave me a lot of support and helped me develop as a person can be tied to an organisation guilty of committing and covering up some of the most heinous acts a person can do.
The Roman Catholic Church is a sovereign state with over a billion members. Given they include somwhere between 1/6th to 1/7th of the world population I'd expect some shitty members.
I think even you know the difference between patronage and hierarchy.
A guy shooting his family isn't the same crime as the NRA suppressing media coverage of a guy shooting his family.
I was speaking more to the idea that there could be corruption or such in the Church, probably could have worded better.
The Church is huuuuuuuuge.
"even you" is a nice touch though, kudos.
But we've already established wide-spread corruption reaching the highest levels of the Church, both in its capital and in its archdioceses for years and years. I don't know why any appeal to the idea that a large institution inherently has problems that fall through the cracks would even be used at this point.
Cover-ups have happened at literally every part of the hierarchy.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
It's just a complete gong show, and the whole issue is fraught with ethical problems. What both this and the Africa situation have in common, I think, is that, for whatever good or ill the Church does, the institution itself is sick. It's fundamentally at odds with how people, at least in the Western world, would choose to set up an organization these days. I think that these problems with the organization are ultimately why these problems get so out of control.
The problem the church has nowadays is that it can't expose its own corruption without damaging the brand unless it's the Pope himself leading the way.
Acknowledging and exposing issues weakens the brand since it still causes people to associate the Church with abuse, but so does being caught covering it up. It's a lose-lose.
I was raised Catholic and I find it incredibly distressing whenever I hear about stuff like this. It's hard to believe that an environment that gave me a lot of support and helped me develop as a person can be tied to an organisation guilty of committing and covering up some of the most heinous acts a person can do.
The Roman Catholic Church is a sovereign state with over a billion members. Given they include somwhere between 1/6th to 1/7th of the world population I'd expect some shitty members.
I think even you know the difference between patronage and hierarchy.
A guy shooting his family isn't the same crime as the NRA suppressing media coverage of a guy shooting his family.
I was speaking more to the idea that there could be corruption or such in the Church, probably could have worded better.
The Church is huuuuuuuuge.
"even you" is a nice touch though, kudos.
But we've already established wide-spread corruption reaching the highest levels of the Church, both in its capital and in its archdioceses for years and years. I don't know why any appeal to the idea that a large institution inherently has problems that fall through the cracks would even be used at this point.
Cover-ups have happened at literally every part of the hierarchy.
Maybe if you look at what I was actually responding to?
It's hard to believe that an environment that gave me a lot of support and helped me develop as a person can be tied to an organisation guilty of committing and covering up some of the most heinous acts a person can do.
My point being I would be shocked if a lot of terrible stuff didn't happen given the size of the organization we're talking about.
So yeah the Church has some serious problems. Cover ups are way to common and large segments of the clergy don't seem to take it seriously enough. The Church is archaic in its organization and oversight and that's gonna change. But the various diocese are more independent than many non-catholics would believe. They're more like franchises than a military hierarchy.
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I think even you know the difference between patronage and hierarchy.
A guy shooting his family isn't the same crime as the NRA suppressing media coverage of a guy shooting his family.
I was speaking more to the idea that there could be corruption or such in the Church, probably could have worded better.
The Church is huuuuuuuuge.
"even you" is a nice touch though, kudos.
It's really tempting to treat the Church as a monolith, and in reality, this just isn't the case. The Vatican has a lot less influence on day to day parish life than most people think.
I'm one of those people who was raised Catholic and no longer practice. My dad does, however, and is both a lawyer and on the parish council. From what I can glean, even in a relatively small Canadian province, the responses are absolutely all over the map. There's an Archdiocese and two Dioceses being represented. All of them are either dealing with or have had to deal with sex abuse cases. There are parishes that take things completely seriously and comply with all the guidelines regarding protecting children. There are parishes that try to do this, but simply don't have the resources to make it happen. And then, right next door, you'll find a parish where everyone seems to be absolutely convinced that the whole thing is a result of Satan and the Liberal Media tag-teaming the Church.
The Diocese of Antigonish is the perfect case in point of this. The Church had been implicated in a number of abuse cases going back to the 1950s. The stance that they took was a textbook model of how they were supposed to respond. Often we've heard of highly antagonistic actions designed to perpetrate a cover-up. In this case, the Church took a highly conciliatory stand and worked with the victims to help ensure their needs were met. They ultimately settled for $15 million. The Bishop who handled all this, Raymond Lahey, was held up as an example of how to resolve these situations correctly. And then, in 2009, he was caught smuggling a load (several removable hard drives worth) of child porn into the country.
It's just a complete gong show, and the whole issue is fraught with ethical problems. What both this and the Africa situation have in common, I think, is that, for whatever good or ill the Church does, the institution itself is sick. It's fundamentally at odds with how people, at least in the Western world, would choose to set up an organization these days. I think that these problems with the organization are ultimately why these problems get so out of control.
Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
But we've already established wide-spread corruption reaching the highest levels of the Church, both in its capital and in its archdioceses for years and years. I don't know why any appeal to the idea that a large institution inherently has problems that fall through the cracks would even be used at this point.
Cover-ups have happened at literally every part of the hierarchy.
The problem the church has nowadays is that it can't expose its own corruption without damaging the brand unless it's the Pope himself leading the way.
Acknowledging and exposing issues weakens the brand since it still causes people to associate the Church with abuse, but so does being caught covering it up. It's a lose-lose.
Maybe if you look at what I was actually responding to?
My point being I would be shocked if a lot of terrible stuff didn't happen given the size of the organization we're talking about.
So yeah the Church has some serious problems. Cover ups are way to common and large segments of the clergy don't seem to take it seriously enough. The Church is archaic in its organization and oversight and that's gonna change. But the various diocese are more independent than many non-catholics would believe. They're more like franchises than a military hierarchy.
That's certainly what they wanted the bankruptcy court to believe.