All you need to do is force leap and Guard becomes useless They really need to buff the range and change the 50% damage transfer.
@Badwrong "yet" ? The only one Guardians/Juggernauts will ever have is a level three skill that does not scale very well as you level up. After that only the AoE taunt.
I was referring to any class... since if a class does have strong AOE damage, then more AOE threat will be needed.
Wait... guard on the healer for threat? Wouldn't it make more sense to put guard on the highest DPS?
Assuming healing causes some threat,
It does.
I had better luck putting Guard on a melee DPSer. While the healer is going to pull more threat (at least I believe so), the melee players have been taking more damage consistently, so splitting the damage with them seems more useful. At least so far I've had more trouble with people dying than with holding threat. Granted that could make the damage on me too heavy too. Hrm...
For the record, healing looks really goddamn hard in this game. I don't think I'll be touching it any time soon.
Wait... guard on the healer for threat? Wouldn't it make more sense to put guard on the highest DPS?
Assuming healing causes some threat,
It does.
I had better luck putting Guard on a melee DPSer. While the healer is going to pull more threat (at least I believe so), the melee players have been taking more damage consistently, so splitting the damage with them seems more useful. At least so far I've had more trouble with people dying than with holding threat. Granted that could make the damage on me too heavy too. Hrm...
For the record, healing looks really goddamn hard in this game. I don't think I'll be touching it any time soon.
The worst part about healing in this game, so far, is that I can't make a Healbot-like setup (e.g., left-click on a frame item to cast "basic heal," right click for "slow, weak, cheap heal," middle-click for "special heal", etc.). Having to manually target, remember my hotkey (find space in my bars for the various hotkeys, etc.), is kind of a pain. Not a huge, insurmountable pain, but a pain.
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I almost like not having ui mods.
Though the lack of target-of-target and the threat indicator is rather unpleasant. Towards the end of my tenure with WoW ThreatPlates became a bit of a crutch for me.
Targeting is a bit of a bitch. Have trouble switching in time to keep up with computer companion.
Also I am having trouble moving in time with some of the computer enemies. I ran essles and the sith warriror was dancing all over the place. Whenever I wanted to hit him, he was somewhere else.
Also I am having trouble moving in time with some of the computer enemies. I ran essles and the sith warriror was dancing all over the place. Whenever I wanted to hit him, he was somewhere else.
Am I doing something wrong?
At that point you're not really a tank at all. You don't even get a taunt and tank stance until 14-16ish.
Also I am having trouble moving in time with some of the computer enemies. I ran essles and the sith warriror was dancing all over the place. Whenever I wanted to hit him, he was somewhere else.
Am I doing something wrong?
At that point you're not really a tank at all. You don't even get a taunt and tank stance until 14-16ish.
I guess my run up and spam sunder strategy was fine then
More like put guard on anyone who is willing to stand near you, since the range on it is non-existent. Guard is a terribly implemented skill that just gets you killed faster during AOE mechanics, which is bad.
You need to carefully reread the text on Guard.
Guard
Instant
Range: 30m
Guards the target while it remains within 15 meters. While active, the target takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat. In addition, 50% of all incoming damage from enemy playersis transferred back to you. Requires Ion Cell.
Actually on the Shadow and their lack of AOE... I was reading another guide and someone went far enough down the balance tree to grab the whirling blow talent to give you another AOE (25/0/16 basically). I was going to try that. But my question is. Do you go down tanking tree first or fill out the balance part first?
Guard is badass. 15 meters is a pretty long way, and besides that, it's basically an awesome PvP skill with a nice PvE implementation too. You put it on your best melee dps and he gets to not worry as much about threat, and get a small damage reduction.
Though the lack of target-of-target and the threat indicator is rather unpleasant. Towards the end of my tenure with WoW ThreatPlates became a bit of a crutch for me.
Well target of target wasn't really a mod, default UI in most all class based MMO's have it. It's just nice to see who is consistently pulling aggro.... or in pvp its nice to see what your enemy is going to do.
Threat meters however I found stupid, anyone can figure out when they are pulling aggro to much.
Moving some hotbars around would be nice though, just because two on the bottom is not enough for all the skills used in-combat and side bars are just cluttered crap. And its harder to group them in a logical way when you can't move them around and shape them different than a long 1-12 bar.
I'm quickly realizing the common mentality of "everything has to be on the tank oh god what the hell" just doesn't apply in this game. The days of one shotting the healer doesn't come through as much. They're still squishier, but as long as you can manage to pick up all/most elites things seem fine.
I'm quickly realizing the common mentality of "everything has to be on the tank oh god what the hell" just doesn't apply in this game. The days of one shotting the healer doesn't come through as much. They're still squishier, but as long as you can manage to pick up all/most elites things seem fine.
Yeah, the order of the day seems to be "tank gets the angriest stuff, DPS mops up the squishy stuff first".
I'm quickly realizing the common mentality of "everything has to be on the tank oh god what the hell" just doesn't apply in this game. The days of one shotting the healer doesn't come through as much. They're still squishier, but as long as you can manage to pick up all/most elites things seem fine.
So far it seems that way to me, because many packs in the FPs don't have all elites. There are strongs in there too, and the DPS can just mop those up. I mean, I'll try to pick them all up, but it's just not always possible anyway.
Reuseable medpacs and adrenals are great. And it looks like battle absorb's armor is boosted by armor multipliers. So my assassin gets up to 2500 at 19.
I'm quickly realizing the common mentality of "everything has to be on the tank oh god what the hell" just doesn't apply in this game. The days of one shotting the healer doesn't come through as much. They're still squishier, but as long as you can manage to pick up all/most elites things seem fine.
Yeah, the order of the day seems to be "tank gets the angriest stuff, DPS mops up the squishy stuff first".
It seemed this way when tanking before 30 for me, I'm 36 now... tanking keeps getting better.
When I tanked foundry at 34 earlier today I was able to get almost all the mobs on me when needed. But now I have AOE taunt and backhand. Sometimes I let a non-elite go untanked just because I see a DPS already CCing it or destroying it in 2-3 hits. At least as juggernaut tank, the squishy mobs are really easy to throw one of our many stuns/holds on.
How do they figure this out? Threat meters are really important cause frankly it can't be figured out on it's own till it's too late.
Well there were MMOs that came before WoW and we all got along just fine without threat meters. Hopefully TOR will have mods or some way for people who like them to use them.
How do they figure this out? Threat meters are really important cause frankly it can't be figured out on it's own till it's too late.
Well there were MMOs that came before WoW and we all got along just fine without threat meters. Hopefully TOR will have mods or some way for people who like them to use them.
There were no threat meters in WoW at first either. We "got along fine" in that we dpsed really slowly and prayed. Or just stood there and wanded. Which, you know, isn't "getting along fine", it's "getting around the bad design".
Tanking is so much fun in this game. I'm going all out in the Guardian Tanking tree and having a blast, and doing a decent job of it too I think. Taunting, Kicks to the Face are almost as fun as just straight up Force Leap.
Per Threat Meters, here is what I don't get. Why do we know everything else? I mean, I know how much damage my hit does when I strike someone, I know how much health they have, and I can see how much health they have left afterwards. I even know whether the mob is a ranged or melee, its level, and a few other things. So why is there this mysterious/hidden value of threat that I can't see?
I actually like threat meters because I feel they push the DPS and Tanks to higher levels of performance. However, why in the hell do we know somethings but not others? Either let me see everything, or let me see nothing.
I'd be good with just having target of target, I don't really care about threat meters. I throw guard on my highest melee DPS and it's GG. The other DPS just shouldn't pull. I am making the lightsaber icon the skull, and when people focus it, it's no problem. Nobody is pulling agro off me when I open up on a dude with a master strike and then start sundering face.
In other news, the Bioware Mythic guys bringing their pvp expertise to this game was a fucking great thing. I just did the Alderaan Warzone as my Guardian tank, and my wife and I held one of the turrets duo by ourselves without a single death. I got like 10 trophies. These poor dudes just came at us and they just didn't have a clue. They started out beating on her, and when they realized with guard and me taunting them they weren't even denting her, they tried to attack me, and of course i'm popping my shield walls and she's healing me. I don't think I went below 80% health, and we won with like 400 points left. So damn fun.
I love extreme spear fishing on my vanguard. And it's pretty useful at times too.
My main problem so far is that I have a hard time 'seeing' the fight. There are so many spell effects flying around that it's hard to see what exactly the critical things I should be walking out of are, and also easy to miss some mob retargetting (Though I'm quickly joining the 'I deal with the gold / platinum mobs, you guys shoot the other mans' crowd).
For instance, the Guardians in Athiss cast a purple circle around themselves, that sticks to the ground. But i'm not sure at all what it does.
Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
Tanking is so much fun in this game. I'm going all out in the Guardian Tanking tree and having a blast, and doing a decent job of it too I think. Taunting, Kicks to the Face are almost as fun as just straight up Force Leap.
I don't know what Jedi get but Force Choke & Force Push make me feel like the ultimate badass.
Regarding threat meters. I wasn't talking about threat meters I was talking about ThreatPlates it changes the color/look of nameplates based on threat. For example:
If you are in tank stance/aura and you have threat the plates are small & green.
If you do not have threat they are big & red.
If you are in DPS/healing stance/aura and DO NOT have threat the plates are small & green.
If you DO have threat they are big & red.
Basically you can see what mobs need to be taunted at a glance.
I love extreme spear fishing on my vanguard. And it's pretty useful at times too.
My main problem so far is that I have a hard time 'seeing' the fight. There are so many spell effects flying around that it's hard to see what exactly the critical things I should be walking out of are, and also easy to miss some mob retargetting (Though I'm quickly joining the 'I deal with the gold / platinum mobs, you guys shoot the other mans' crowd).
For instance, the Guardians in Athiss cast a purple circle around themselves, that sticks to the ground. But i'm not sure at all what it does.
Golden rule of MMOs, if NPCs put something on the ground, you don't want to be in it. Haha. Seriously though, we're all learning this stuff, so I have no idea what that is either.
Reuseable medpacs and adrenals are great. And it looks like battle absorb's armor is boosted by armor multipliers. So my assassin gets up to 2500 at 19.
HOLY SHIT YES!
I did not know that. I'm also an assassin tank.
Question- Do you find that you have to use your normal attack in your rotation? (or what is your rotation).
My priority system is
a)Keep Dark Ward Up
b)Keep Discharge Up on Enemies
c)Thrash for Energize Procs
d)Shock
Normally what happens is that I run out of Force and I have to use my regular attack while I wait for enough force to regenerate to get my shocks off. (My, that sounded dirty). That just feels "wrong" to me, but I'm only level 23. I can't wait until my force regenerates 30% faster.
[edit] Is it Force Storm that you're talking about? @SanderJK and Joshmvii
That could be it. I certainly didn't feel like I was taking 'a great amount' of damage though. It was more of an example than an actual question, but thanks for trying to find out.
And yeah, I can move out of it, but since you have no idea what the mob does, and moving needlessly can annoy players as well, knowing what an effect does would be better. Also, I'm still in the process of experimenting with cycles (with the wonky regen), so my attention is diminished.
Decided to respec and just go full tank - I always duo my guardian anyway. I'm really enjoying it but looking forward to more utility and some aoe threat.
Yeah, threat plates were awesome in WoW. I'd love to have that functionality in TOR.
I want any sort of nameplates, period. What they have now is just shit.
How do you mean? I have nameplates turned on for all hostiles, and I don't have any problem seeing how much HP enemies have. The threat functionality is not there, but for the sake of seeing enemies and how much health they have it works fine as far as I can see.
How do you mean? I have nameplates turned on for all hostiles, and I don't have any problem seeing how much HP enemies have. The threat functionality is not there, but for the sake of seeing enemies and how much health they have it works fine as far as I can see.
I mean things like "ok, which mob am I even targeting?"
The targeting circle is around their feet. Which is invisible in grass and stuff.
Yeah, there's the target above their heads, but I guess making the nameplates clickable would be nice too. I mostly just tab through targets out of habit.
So my usual questing and flashpoint group is actually two tanks and a healer, with a DPS companion. (I'm a Juggernaut, other tank is a Bounty Hunter). I'm not positive it's actually working for the damage reduction, but we have been using Guard on each-other for the 5% damage reduction, the threat nerf cancels out and we still have no issue with the healer or whatever DPS we're grouping with pulling aggro. =D
5% damage reduction at low level is okay I guess, but the threat reduction means you two wouldn't pull off each other, but if you were grouped with a DPS who does a lot it seems like they'd pull off you since you're both nerfed on threat. I think you'd be better off just having one of you swap to your DPS form. I mean, your resource gen sucks in tank form anyway if you don't have things hitting you.
So my usual questing and flashpoint group is actually two tanks and a healer, with a DPS companion. (I'm a Juggernaut, other tank is a Bounty Hunter). I'm not positive it's actually working for the damage reduction, but we have been using Guard on each-other for the 5% damage reduction, the threat nerf cancels out and we still have no issue with the healer or whatever DPS we're grouping with pulling aggro. =D
I ran the first few instances with another tank and it worked well since neither of us had a huge variety of threat generation. Now though, two tanks would be a total waste over good DPS as I can keep aggro of everything if needed.
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I was referring to any class... since if a class does have strong AOE damage, then more AOE threat will be needed.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is true, that most classes are still weak on AoE, helping guardians/juggs on the tanking.
It does.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I had better luck putting Guard on a melee DPSer. While the healer is going to pull more threat (at least I believe so), the melee players have been taking more damage consistently, so splitting the damage with them seems more useful. At least so far I've had more trouble with people dying than with holding threat. Granted that could make the damage on me too heavy too. Hrm...
For the record, healing looks really goddamn hard in this game. I don't think I'll be touching it any time soon.
Steam - Wildschwein | The Backlog
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The worst part about healing in this game, so far, is that I can't make a Healbot-like setup (e.g., left-click on a frame item to cast "basic heal," right click for "slow, weak, cheap heal," middle-click for "special heal", etc.). Having to manually target, remember my hotkey (find space in my bars for the various hotkeys, etc.), is kind of a pain. Not a huge, insurmountable pain, but a pain.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Though the lack of target-of-target and the threat indicator is rather unpleasant. Towards the end of my tenure with WoW ThreatPlates became a bit of a crutch for me.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Targeting is a bit of a bitch. Have trouble switching in time to keep up with computer companion.
Also I am having trouble moving in time with some of the computer enemies. I ran essles and the sith warriror was dancing all over the place. Whenever I wanted to hit him, he was somewhere else.
Am I doing something wrong?
At that point you're not really a tank at all. You don't even get a taunt and tank stance until 14-16ish.
I guess my run up and spam sunder strategy was fine then
You need to carefully reread the text on Guard.
Instant
Range: 30m
Guards the target while it remains within 15 meters. While active, the target takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat. In addition, 50% of all incoming damage from enemy players is transferred back to you. Requires Ion Cell.
Well target of target wasn't really a mod, default UI in most all class based MMO's have it. It's just nice to see who is consistently pulling aggro.... or in pvp its nice to see what your enemy is going to do.
Threat meters however I found stupid, anyone can figure out when they are pulling aggro to much.
Moving some hotbars around would be nice though, just because two on the bottom is not enough for all the skills used in-combat and side bars are just cluttered crap. And its harder to group them in a logical way when you can't move them around and shape them different than a long 1-12 bar.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
WoW ended up with a nice compromise eventually: nameplates change when you have aggro or are close to pulling aggro.
I find the lack of proper nameplates in TOR disturbing. </Star Wars quotes>
Yeah, the order of the day seems to be "tank gets the angriest stuff, DPS mops up the squishy stuff first".
So far it seems that way to me, because many packs in the FPs don't have all elites. There are strongs in there too, and the DPS can just mop those up. I mean, I'll try to pick them all up, but it's just not always possible anyway.
Plus, I have been in situations where all the mobs are on me, and I do down pretty fast, so it doesn't seem like it's even intentional
Reuseable medpacs and adrenals are great. And it looks like battle absorb's armor is boosted by armor multipliers. So my assassin gets up to 2500 at 19.
How do they figure this out? Threat meters are really important cause frankly it can't be figured out on it's own till it's too late.
EDIT: Nevermind, not sure if i had a DOT and didn't notice or something like that
It seemed this way when tanking before 30 for me, I'm 36 now... tanking keeps getting better.
When I tanked foundry at 34 earlier today I was able to get almost all the mobs on me when needed. But now I have AOE taunt and backhand. Sometimes I let a non-elite go untanked just because I see a DPS already CCing it or destroying it in 2-3 hits. At least as juggernaut tank, the squishy mobs are really easy to throw one of our many stuns/holds on.
Well there were MMOs that came before WoW and we all got along just fine without threat meters. Hopefully TOR will have mods or some way for people who like them to use them.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There were no threat meters in WoW at first either. We "got along fine" in that we dpsed really slowly and prayed. Or just stood there and wanded. Which, you know, isn't "getting along fine", it's "getting around the bad design".
I actually like threat meters because I feel they push the DPS and Tanks to higher levels of performance. However, why in the hell do we know somethings but not others? Either let me see everything, or let me see nothing.
In other news, the Bioware Mythic guys bringing their pvp expertise to this game was a fucking great thing. I just did the Alderaan Warzone as my Guardian tank, and my wife and I held one of the turrets duo by ourselves without a single death. I got like 10 trophies. These poor dudes just came at us and they just didn't have a clue. They started out beating on her, and when they realized with guard and me taunting them they weren't even denting her, they tried to attack me, and of course i'm popping my shield walls and she's healing me. I don't think I went below 80% health, and we won with like 400 points left. So damn fun.
My main problem so far is that I have a hard time 'seeing' the fight. There are so many spell effects flying around that it's hard to see what exactly the critical things I should be walking out of are, and also easy to miss some mob retargetting (Though I'm quickly joining the 'I deal with the gold / platinum mobs, you guys shoot the other mans' crowd).
For instance, the Guardians in Athiss cast a purple circle around themselves, that sticks to the ground. But i'm not sure at all what it does.
I don't know what Jedi get but Force Choke & Force Push make me feel like the ultimate badass.
Regarding threat meters. I wasn't talking about threat meters I was talking about ThreatPlates it changes the color/look of nameplates based on threat. For example:
If you are in tank stance/aura and you have threat the plates are small & green.
If you do not have threat they are big & red.
If you are in DPS/healing stance/aura and DO NOT have threat the plates are small & green.
If you DO have threat they are big & red.
Basically you can see what mobs need to be taunted at a glance.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Golden rule of MMOs, if NPCs put something on the ground, you don't want to be in it. Haha. Seriously though, we're all learning this stuff, so I have no idea what that is either.
HOLY SHIT YES!
I did not know that. I'm also an assassin tank.
Question- Do you find that you have to use your normal attack in your rotation? (or what is your rotation).
My priority system is
a)Keep Dark Ward Up
b)Keep Discharge Up on Enemies
c)Thrash for Energize Procs
d)Shock
Normally what happens is that I run out of Force and I have to use my regular attack while I wait for enough force to regenerate to get my shocks off. (My, that sounded dirty). That just feels "wrong" to me, but I'm only level 23. I can't wait until my force regenerates 30% faster.
[edit] Is it Force Storm that you're talking about? @SanderJK and Joshmvii
http://www.torhead.com/npc/53FxlF8
And yeah, I can move out of it, but since you have no idea what the mob does, and moving needlessly can annoy players as well, knowing what an effect does would be better. Also, I'm still in the process of experimenting with cycles (with the wonky regen), so my attention is diminished.
Twitter - discolouie PSN - Loupa Steam - Loupa
I want any sort of nameplates, period. What they have now is just shit.
How do you mean? I have nameplates turned on for all hostiles, and I don't have any problem seeing how much HP enemies have. The threat functionality is not there, but for the sake of seeing enemies and how much health they have it works fine as far as I can see.
I mean things like "ok, which mob am I even targeting?"
The targeting circle is around their feet. Which is invisible in grass and stuff.
Also, a clickable nameplate to target something.
There is a big red arrow above your targets head. I'm red/green colorblind and have no problem seeing it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I ran the first few instances with another tank and it worked well since neither of us had a huge variety of threat generation. Now though, two tanks would be a total waste over good DPS as I can keep aggro of everything if needed.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯