AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
When would they have been able to use that? Maybe in the prologue where they're explaining the backstory?
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
But even then *puts on nerd glasses* Sauron hadn't looked like that since the fall of Numenor, a long time before the trilogy (but perhaps not before the rings were given out, it's been a while since I read the Simirillion).
Really? I don't remember The Hobbit that well, I was about 12 when I read it. One of the dudes looked kinda taller so I assumed he was a human. I think it's something about the facial hair, it just doesn't look real to me.
godelsrotatinguniverse on
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
So, my girlfriend hadn't seen LotR, so we watched the series over last weekend. I've seen it so many times, but Sam's "but I can carry you" gets me every time. I think I'm just conditioned to get choked up by Sean Astin since Rudy
Of course, in the books, Sam can totally carry the Ring, and does. He even kicks ass with it.
Really, in the books, the One Ring is a lot more fun to have around. I can understand why it was changed to be something nobody should ever use in the movies, but in the books they used it pretty often.
I'm looking forward to the Ring not being fully "awake" yet for the Hobbit movies, so we can see some invisible hijinks.
Yeah I know its a departure, I just thought the whole scene worked really well.
Seeing it more often in the hobbit will be great.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
When would they have been able to use that? Maybe in the prologue where they're explaining the backstory?
During filming, the plan was that Aragorn would fight Maia-Sauron mano-a-mano in front of the Black Gate. During production, they CGI'd the cave troll in instead.
And yes, according to the mythology, Sauron wasn't able to take on that fair form after the fall of Nuemenor, at the end of the Second Age (which was after the forging of the Rings of Power, but before the War of the Last Alliance between Elves and Men).
Hedgethorn on
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
When would they have been able to use that? Maybe in the prologue where they're explaining the backstory?
During filming, the plan was that Aragorn would fight Maia-Sauron mano-a-mano in front of the Black Gate. During production, they CGI'd the cave troll in instead.
And yes, according to the mythology, Sauron wasn't able to take on that fair form after the fall of Nuemenor, at the end of the Second Age (which was after the forging of the Rings of Power, but before the War of the Last Alliance between Elves and Men.
There but for the grace of god, eh?
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
I couldn't imagine seeing Sauron as anything other than a sick, twisted mockery of his maia form. He is evil with a capital E after all.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Isn't that technically Morgoth?
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
I'm not sure who you're referring to, but Morgoth aka Melkor was one of the Valar, the "lesser gods" in Tolkien's cosmology (below the One God, Illuvatar). Sauron aka Mairon was one of the Maiar, the "angels."
Sauron fell in with Morgoth and was his chief lieutenant during the First Age. After Morgoth was defeated and cast out of the world by Illuvatar and the other Valar, Sauron became the big baddy of the Second and Third Ages, until he was finally destroyed by Frodo casting the One Ring into Mount Doom.
As a fellow (somewhat former) huge Tolkien nerd, drenched in all the lore available and somewhat versed in Quenya, I'll just verify that Hedgethorn is right on the money and the thread is in good hands, lore-wise. Carry on, Hedgethorn. :^:
As a fellow (somewhat former) huge Tolkien nerd, drenched in all the lore available and somewhat versed in Quenya, I'll just verify that Hedgethorn is right on the money and the thread is in good hands, lore-wise. Carry on, Hedgethorn. :^:
Thanks. I'm about 10 years past being a huge Tolkien nerd -- I waded through nearly the entire History of Middle Earth series during my first two years of college, and I even had the opportunity to take a college seminar on The Silmarillion. I haven't read any of it in years, but it's still somewhere in the back of my head ready to spring forth at a moment's notice.
I never did study Tolkien's languages, though. Being able to read Latin (which I actually use in my work) is plenty for me.
this seems like a good enough place to ask, then: did Sauron still have some kind of physical form while LoTR is going on? I was never really clear on that.
Edit: Beyond the eye, I mean.
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HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
My memory is that the books aren't wholly clear on this point, but that the most natural reading is that (contrary to Jackson's films) Sauron did have a physical form throughout the LoTR. The most specific the books get, IIRC, is Gollum mentioning something about Sauron's hand after having been tortured in Barad-Dur.
The one thing that is clear is that Sauron is no longer able to take on the "fair" form he used during the Second Age to fool the elves and the Nuemenoreans. After he got sucked down in the giant whirlpool that destroyed Nuemenor at the end of the Second Age, his angelic appearance was lost. He was clearly able to retake a physical form after this point -- he had it during the battle with Elendil, Gil-Galad, and Isilduir (as shown in the prologue to Jackson's Fellowship) -- but for some unspecified reason he could no longer hide the fact that he was a fallen angel.
*nerd glasses* That's not his Valar form, that's his form as Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, which is what he appeared as to the elves when he taught them how to make rings of power. Which would be appropriate to show if they were giving more extensive backstory on the rings.
And it's not so much that he couldn't take that form anymore, but he wouldn't be able to fool anyone with it. So he would appear all angelic and nice but you would feel horrible dread and animals would freak out and whatnot.
What was Saurons endgame? Domination for dominations sake?
Basically yes. He wants to control all Middle earth and his two main plans were using the rings to control their wearers, (who were all important men/dwarves/elves I think) and when that didn't work because the Elves outsmarted him, the dwarves went nice ring and added them to their treasure piles and the men turned into wraiths which really don't inspire people to follow them because who wants to obey a shadow?), the follow up plan was to build up a massive armed force and simply kill everyone who didn't worship him. Which also failed horribly. 4 times.
What was Saurons endgame? Domination for dominations sake?
Basically yes. He wants to control all Middle earth and his two main plans were using the rings to control their wearers, (who were all important men/dwarves/elves I think) and when that didn't work because the Elves outsmarted him, the dwarves went nice ring and added them to their treasure piles and the men turned into wraiths which really don't inspire people to follow them because who wants to obey a shadow?), the follow up plan was to build up a massive armed force and simply kill everyone who didn't worship him. Which also failed horribly. 4 times.
The New York Times bestseller: Going Rogue: a Mordor Life by Sauron McEvileye.
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Sauron is all about order and control. He wants everything to run in nice mechanical fashion with himself in unquestioned control and mastery of it all.
Okay, is there like an album or something that I can get that has the songs from the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings? I'm trying to find a halfway decent recording of "The Road Goes Ever On and On" and it's just not happening.
Okay, is there like an album or something that I can get that has the songs from the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings? I'm trying to find a halfway decent recording of "The Road Goes Ever On and On" and it's just not happening.
I just listen to Nightfall in Middle Earth by Blind Guardian, and every single Summoning album.
Where can I run, where can I hide The Silmarils
Gems of treelight, their light belongs to me!
Oh how sweet, all the darkness floating around!
WE ARE FOLLOWING THE WILL OF THE ONE
THROUGH THE DARK AGE AND INTO THE STORM!
Okay, is there like an album or something that I can get that has the songs from the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings? I'm trying to find a halfway decent recording of "The Road Goes Ever On and On" and it's just not happening.
this seems like a good enough place to ask, then: did Sauron still have some kind of physical form while LoTR is going on? I was never really clear on that.
this seems like a good enough place to ask, then: did Sauron still have some kind of physical form while LoTR is going on? I was never really clear on that.
Edit: Beyond the eye, I mean.
That is a few thousand years earlier iirc
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
this seems like a good enough place to ask, then: did Sauron still have some kind of physical form while LoTR is going on? I was never really clear on that.
Edit: Beyond the eye, I mean.
in the books, maybe? in the films, not in the least.
Okay, is there like an album or something that I can get that has the songs from the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings? I'm trying to find a halfway decent recording of "The Road Goes Ever On and On" and it's just not happening.
this seems like a good enough place to ask, then: did Sauron still have some kind of physical form while LoTR is going on? I was never really clear on that.
Edit: Beyond the eye, I mean.
in the books, maybe? in the films, not in the least.
What makes you think they changed the timeline in the films?
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
I still find the documentaries on the making of the LotR movies fascinating. Basically they tried, and tried, and TRIED to change things in ways they thought would work better or look cooler, even if it meant changing parts of the story whole cloth. But when they kept re-writing, or even filming, these scenes, they just didn't work. So over time the movies got closer and closer to the books because the books were the only things that were filmable and made sense.
this seems like a good enough place to ask, then: did Sauron still have some kind of physical form while LoTR is going on? I was never really clear on that.
Edit: Beyond the eye, I mean.
in the books, maybe? in the films, not in the least.
What makes you think they changed the timeline in the films?
Ah, I meant during the fellowship's journey, not that picture that's from the prologue. Apologies for any confusion.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauron#Adaptations
Really? I don't remember The Hobbit that well, I was about 12 when I read it. One of the dudes looked kinda taller so I assumed he was a human. I think it's something about the facial hair, it just doesn't look real to me.
They don't meet proper humans until they get to Laketown (Beorn doesn't count). Wherein we shall see Stephen Fry as the Master of Laketown.
Well they still look sort of weird to me, in any case. Like people with prosthetics on. Though of course this might come out in the 48fps wash.
"What is the name of the river near the Shire?" Davies buzzes in with "Brandywine".
Holy shit for real? That's amazing.
Yeah I know its a departure, I just thought the whole scene worked really well.
Seeing it more often in the hobbit will be great.
I will give you $Texas to make this happen.
During filming, the plan was that Aragorn would fight Maia-Sauron mano-a-mano in front of the Black Gate. During production, they CGI'd the cave troll in instead.
And yes, according to the mythology, Sauron wasn't able to take on that fair form after the fall of Nuemenor, at the end of the Second Age (which was after the forging of the Rings of Power, but before the War of the Last Alliance between Elves and Men).
There but for the grace of god, eh?
I'm not sure who you're referring to, but Morgoth aka Melkor was one of the Valar, the "lesser gods" in Tolkien's cosmology (below the One God, Illuvatar). Sauron aka Mairon was one of the Maiar, the "angels."
Sauron fell in with Morgoth and was his chief lieutenant during the First Age. After Morgoth was defeated and cast out of the world by Illuvatar and the other Valar, Sauron became the big baddy of the Second and Third Ages, until he was finally destroyed by Frodo casting the One Ring into Mount Doom.
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Thanks. I'm about 10 years past being a huge Tolkien nerd -- I waded through nearly the entire History of Middle Earth series during my first two years of college, and I even had the opportunity to take a college seminar on The Silmarillion. I haven't read any of it in years, but it's still somewhere in the back of my head ready to spring forth at a moment's notice.
I never did study Tolkien's languages, though. Being able to read Latin (which I actually use in my work) is plenty for me.
Edit: Beyond the eye, I mean.
The one thing that is clear is that Sauron is no longer able to take on the "fair" form he used during the Second Age to fool the elves and the Nuemenoreans. After he got sucked down in the giant whirlpool that destroyed Nuemenor at the end of the Second Age, his angelic appearance was lost. He was clearly able to retake a physical form after this point -- he had it during the battle with Elendil, Gil-Galad, and Isilduir (as shown in the prologue to Jackson's Fellowship) -- but for some unspecified reason he could no longer hide the fact that he was a fallen angel.
*nerd glasses* That's not his Valar form, that's his form as Annatar, the Lord of Gifts, which is what he appeared as to the elves when he taught them how to make rings of power. Which would be appropriate to show if they were giving more extensive backstory on the rings.
And it's not so much that he couldn't take that form anymore, but he wouldn't be able to fool anyone with it. So he would appear all angelic and nice but you would feel horrible dread and animals would freak out and whatnot.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Basically yes. He wants to control all Middle earth and his two main plans were using the rings to control their wearers, (who were all important men/dwarves/elves I think) and when that didn't work because the Elves outsmarted him, the dwarves went nice ring and added them to their treasure piles and the men turned into wraiths which really don't inspire people to follow them because who wants to obey a shadow?), the follow up plan was to build up a massive armed force and simply kill everyone who didn't worship him. Which also failed horribly. 4 times.
The New York Times bestseller: Going Rogue: a Mordor Life by Sauron McEvileye.
3DS FC: 4699-5714-8940 Playing Pokemon, add me! Ho, SATAN!
I just listen to Nightfall in Middle Earth by Blind Guardian, and every single Summoning album.
Where can I run, where can I hide The Silmarils
Gems of treelight, their light belongs to me!
Oh how sweet, all the darkness floating around!
WE ARE FOLLOWING THE WILL OF THE ONE
THROUGH THE DARK AGE AND INTO THE STORM!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dQ5c5SIYnc
That one?
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
That is a few thousand years earlier iirc
in the books, maybe? in the films, not in the least.
Oh my dear lord, that album cover is horrible.
Also I like The animated Hobbit's score. It makes me wish that Howard Shore used more guitar.
edit: also John Houston is a great Gandalf.
Best line in the whole movie comes from John Houston's Gandalf.
"Dread has come upon you all! An army of goblins with claim to the tray-sure comes from the north!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=20RL5Omt50A#t=4190s
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
What makes you think they changed the timeline in the films?
Ah, I meant during the fellowship's journey, not that picture that's from the prologue. Apologies for any confusion.