Hmm, I didn't have Castlevania IV, but I do think it's a bit unfair to completely discard the graphics, at the time (It being a launch title) they showed us what the future of gaming would bring, and that it included awesome rotating things and scaling.
Also, the scaled back difficulty is a huge plus, the SNES was the first time I really felt able to actually complete console games I owned, and see the endings, and feel great. a lot of older games either had no ending, or are "Nintendo hard" (hehehe)
On that note, one of my most memorable gaming moments has been Zelda : Link to the past and it's fantastic ending.
(Also, I will always hate Super Double Dragon for ruining Double dragons and having a single (probably misspelled) paragraph as an ending)
The complain about "MIDI music" makes no sense to me, especially as you state you love "synth-driven soundtracks," which is basically, MIDI-like music.
You do recall that CV IV was an SNES launch window title, right? There's absolutely nothing wrong with the style of music they used in that game compared to the NES ones; it all helped to contribute to a great atmosphere that I think still holds up well today. Definitely one of my favorite games on the system. As good as Bloodlines was I think the soundtrack still kind of got dinged by the Genesis sound system; if you want a better example of how Konami handled music on both systems take a listen to the two versions of Sparkster's soundtracks.
Anyway, while the SNES wasn't quite superior in the sound department, it came pretty darn close when programmers put the effort into it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5S4jTzbTnE
Wow, some of you are demonstrating some bloody awful music taste here. I'm no music critic, but some of the electric guitar samples are hurting my ears. SCIV's Simon's Theme is not bad at all compared to those. Also, SotN has I Am The Wind.
Eh, Rondo of Blood is the one I found really disappointing. After hearing for years about how it was the holy grail of Castlevania when I finally played it, my main thought was "this is it?" Not awful, but nowhere near deserving of the hype.
I think these games are mostly a case of you had to be there at the time. Nowadays, Super Castlevania isn't anything special but when it first came out a couple months after the SNES's release in the US, it was amazing. It looked and sounded much better than the NES games and it was much more accessible (probably the first Castlevania that many people were able to actually beat). Sure, Castlevania 3 had the better design but it was also way too hard for most people.
And you should really try Order of Ecclesia. It's a great mix of the old school and Metroidvania Castlevania sensibilities.
Perhaps the worst part of Castlevania IV, which I didn't even touch on, is how mind bogglingly stupid the enemy AI is. It's obviously a step down from Rondo, which could be expected (best exmplified by the knights, who will purposely stand 1 step behind the range of your whip in Rondo, while in C4 they'll just march back and forth without a care in the world), but what's really surprising is how it's even a step down from Castlevania III.
I just tested this out - hold your whip out in front of you in castlevania 4 and stand in front of a skeleton and don't move an inch or press any other button- it'll walk into you over and over again until it dies. No enemy in Castlevania III is that stupid.
I've got your problem right here.
Rondo of Blood came out TWO YEARS after CV4. CV4 was a launch title on the SNES. Rondo of Blood seems to have better sounding music? Well CV series has always had great compositions, now we couple that with an optical disc.
Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
0
Options
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I think these games are mostly a case of you had to be there at the time. Nowadays, Super Castlevania isn't anything special but when it first came out a couple months after the SNES's release in the US, it was amazing. It looked and sounded much better than the NES games and it was much more accessible (probably the first Castlevania that many people were able to actually beat). Sure, Castlevania 3 had the better design but it was also way too hard for most people.
I agree with this 100%. Castlevania IV will always be one of my favorites; the graphics blew me away at the time, and the music is still great. On the previous page when TSR did a comparison between the CV4 and RoB Bloody Tears, I still fall on the side of the CV4 soundtrack in that case.
That being said, I agree about the mode 7 levels being a bit too much of a tech demo (and only crap does that one hallway have a ton of slowdown when you kill skeletons!).
I tried to play SCIV again earlier this year, but I still just don't like it. Between controlling jumps in mid-air, huge sprites and boring level design it just feels really off. Is CV3 really all that difficult? I think I beat that when I was in 3rd grade. Didn't have many problems beating it recently, but it could be muscle memory from my childhood.
By time I played Portrait of Ruin, I was so apathetic towards handheld Metroidvanias that I didn't even pay attention to Ecclesia when it came out. I figured that the series just wasn't for me anymore until I heard some talk here saying Portrait of Ruin wasn't really that good. Maybe I should look into OoE
Controversial Castlevania Opinions:
I like Dracula XX on the SNES. Rondo is still my favorite, but XX isn't a terrible game as long as you're not comparing it to Rondo.
By time I played Portrait of Ruin, I was so apathetic towards handheld Metroidvanias that I didn't even pay attention to Ecclesia when it came out. I figured that the series just wasn't for me anymore until I heard some talk here saying Portrait of Ruin wasn't really that good. Maybe I should look into OoE
Controversial Castlevania Opinions:
I like Dracula XX on the SNES. Rondo is still my favorite, but XX isn't a terrible game as long as you're not comparing it to Rondo.
I also like CV2. :P
I fucking love CV2, even though it's one of the hardest games I've ever played and my grandmother and I would never have beaten it without help due to how fucking vague a lot of the shit in it is.
Order of Ecclesia is the best metroidvania made since Symphony of the Night.
One of the biggest problems I had with the metroidvanias is that there was barely ever any challenge unless you purposely gimped yourself. Of course, if the areas you had to repeatedly traverse were challenging, getting around would be a huge pain in the ass. OoE addresses that problem by making the game a little more linear, but by doing so they're able to make areas more challenging again. There's also a bonus area of challenging platforming!
I remember the first time I saw Dracula X in a demo booth and heard the music and I was sooooo amazed. Then I played it and wondered where my 8-way whip and slack whip were. I also think that the Dracula X final boss fight is one of the harder ones... I think it's interesting that the PC Engine dracula X final boss was really just a re-creation of the original CV final boss (with what felt like to me an easier final form), while the SNES Dracula X completely changed the arena, and even the appearance of Dracula's final form.
Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
The most disappointing aspect has to be the music. Castlevania games have killer synth-driven soundtracks... this game sounds like bad midi impersonations of public domain "scary" music.
TSR wins for being able to word what I find wrong with Super Castlevania's music better than I have in the past.
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Order of Ecclesia is the best metroidvania made since Symphony of the Night.
One of the biggest problems I had with the metroidvanias is that there was barely ever any challenge unless you purposely gimped yourself. Of course, if the areas you had to repeatedly traverse were challenging, getting around would be a huge pain in the ass. OoE addresses that problem by making the game a little more linear, but by doing so they're able to make areas more challenging again. There's also a bonus area of challenging platforming!
The Training Hall was actually pretty easy platforming. The only hard part is when you have to use the Magnes glyph within that one room with the rotating fire rings. And that's it.
The big accomplishment of OoE was creating a difficult Metroidvania style game. But right when Konami succeeds, they say they don't like the Castlevania series and all we have so far from them is a shitty reboot.
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Perhaps the worst part of Castlevania IV, which I didn't even touch on, is how mind bogglingly stupid the enemy AI is. It's obviously a step down from Rondo, which could be expected (best exmplified by the knights, who will purposely stand 1 step behind the range of your whip in Rondo, while in C4 they'll just march back and forth without a care in the world), but what's really surprising is how it's even a step down from Castlevania III.
I just tested this out - hold your whip out in front of you in castlevania 4 and stand in front of a skeleton and don't move an inch or press any other button- it'll walk into you over and over again until it dies. No enemy in Castlevania III is that stupid.
I've got your problem right here.
Rondo of Blood came out TWO YEARS after CV4. CV4 was a launch title on the SNES. Rondo of Blood seems to have better sounding music? Well CV series has always had great compositions, now we couple that with an optical disc.
Did you miss the part where I said it was also a step down from Castlevania 3, released years prior, on a system released 6 years prior?
Did you miss the part where I said it was also a step down from Castlevania 3, released years prior, on a system released 6 years prior?
The same thing happened with Super Mario Bros. 3, if you think about it; that game is more advanced / feature driven than Super Mario World. Yes the latter looks better, but for an NES game, SMB3 is pretty fucking complex and has a TON of level design awesomeness going on in it.
0
Options
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
You know what game was really overrated? Sonic. All of them.
Did you miss the part where I said it was also a step down from Castlevania 3, released years prior, on a system released 6 years prior?
The same thing happened with Super Mario Bros. 3, if you think about it; that game is more advanced / feature driven than Super Mario World. Yes the latter looks better, but for an NES game, SMB3 is pretty fucking complex and has a TON of level design awesomeness going on in it.
The thing about the transition from Mario 3 to Mario World, is that the foundation didn't shift between titles. Whether or not you think the level design (or art direction or music, etc) in Mario 3 is better than Mario World, the games are still similar enough in mechanics that it would be easy to imagine someone plucking 1 level out of one game, and dropping it into the other game, and having it all just work. in fact, they did just that, with Mario All-stars.
That can't happen with Castlevania 4. It doesn't feel like any other game in the series. I could see someone taking a stage from Castlvania 3 and dropping it in Bloodlines or Rondo, but with Castlevania 4, the entire game is just too different.
If Castlevania IV is your favorite, you might just hate castlevania.
You know what game was really overrated? Sonic. All of them.
The mark of the truly defeated. Do you think this is clever? Can't put up a real argument?
0
Options
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I think it's no more clever than this thread, no, I must admit. I honestly do think Sonic games are incredibly boring and overrated but it felt unnecessary to make a discussion on that. Opinions and all.
You know what game was really overrated? Sonic. All of them.
You shut your filthy whore mouth.
(Even though you may or may not be correct, depending on who's doing the rating)
But man, Castlevania. IV was indeed, lackluster...though the issue may be that I didn't play it until it came out on VC. Played the NES installments back in the day, and 2 (Simon's Quest) was my favorite. Curious how well it holds up.
Symphony of the Night will probably always hold a special place in my heart. Main problem now is that they keep putting out new ones on consoles I don't fucking have; my DS is dead, only ever played one of those, and I had a couple of the GBA ones. Still prefer SotN, probably because I prefer playing it on my TV. And because it's fuckawesome.
I think it's no more clever than this thread, no, I must admit. I honestly do think Sonic games are incredibly boring and overrated but it felt unnecessary to make a discussion on that. Opinions and all.
I'm not trying to be clever.
The idea that you're so offended that I made a discussion on a game I got for christmas plays into my claim that there is massive group think associated with this game.
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I think it's no more clever than this thread, no, I must admit. I honestly do think Sonic games are incredibly boring and overrated but it felt unnecessary to make a discussion on that. Opinions and all.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a discussion on not liking something as long as it can actually be discussed with various points and comparisons drawn. TSR has done a better job than people traditionally do.
I may be biased (I'm not saying that as a joke) because I just so happen to not like Super Castlevania.
0
Options
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Admittedly I'm not a fan of pure (IE, all you do is) platformers and Sonic didn't do anything to change that. I can't stand any of the 3D Marios, either. Collecting things and running from A to B is just so.. boring.
I can't imagine the amount of malice if I made a 'Platformers suck' thread.
Admittedly I'm not a fan of pure (IE, all you do is) platformers and Sonic didn't do anything to change that. I can't stand any of the 3D Marios, either. Collecting things and running from A to B is just so.. boring.
I can't imagine the amount of malice if I made a 'Platformers suck' thread.
Because "platformers suck" is an awfully big blanket statement, and no one has played every platformer ever. Making an "I don't enjoy platformers" thread would be better, as that's an opinion call and something worth discussiong (i.e. the merit of platformers, what people actually find enjoyable about them).
This isn't a broad topic. It's my views on a specific game. That's the difference.
EDIT: And if you ever did make a topic about how you do don't like the collect-a-thon platformers, I would be there front and center agreeing with you. I think completing a level should be sufficient challenge and goal in a game, without having to artifically pad the length by making a player explore every single uninteresting inch of a level.
But that's a different topic
TheSonicRetard on
0
Options
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Did you miss the part where I said it was also a step down from Castlevania 3, released years prior, on a system released 6 years prior?
The same thing happened with Super Mario Bros. 3, if you think about it; that game is more advanced / feature driven than Super Mario World. Yes the latter looks better, but for an NES game, SMB3 is pretty fucking complex and has a TON of level design awesomeness going on in it.
The thing about the transition from Mario 3 to Mario World, is that the foundation didn't shift between titles. Whether or not you think the level design (or art direction or music, etc) in Mario 3 is better than Mario World, the games are still similar enough in mechanics that it would be easy to imagine someone plucking 1 level out of one game, and dropping it into the other game, and having it all just work. in fact, they did just that, with Mario All-stars.
That can't happen with Castlevania 4. It doesn't feel like any other game in the series. I could see someone taking a stage from Castlvania 3 and dropping it in Bloodlines or Rondo, but with Castlevania 4, the entire game is just too different.
If Castlevania IV is your favorite, you might just hate castlevania.
I get what you say about Mario 3 to Mario World, but I'm confused how the same wouldn't apply to Castlevania 3 to Castlevania 4. At face value, I mean. Health works the same, same sub-weapons and they work more or less the same, same whip attack. But now you've made me consider something; Castlevania 4 controls, in a huge way, more floaty compared to other Castlevania games of that time (edit - clarification: I mean jumping). I think Rondo / Dracula X even managed to make things step back into the proper feel.
Nevertheless, most of my problem with CV4 is that it has an odd aesthetic, not unlike Harmony of Dissonance, and its soundtrack was bad.
Henroid on
0
Options
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I know, I'm just ribbing you. I haven't actually played SC IV so it may indeed be as lackluster as you say it is. Hell, I've been getting flak in the Zelda thread for saying SS was not nearly as great as some people seem to think it is.
Did you miss the part where I said it was also a step down from Castlevania 3, released years prior, on a system released 6 years prior?
The same thing happened with Super Mario Bros. 3, if you think about it; that game is more advanced / feature driven than Super Mario World. Yes the latter looks better, but for an NES game, SMB3 is pretty fucking complex and has a TON of level design awesomeness going on in it.
The thing about the transition from Mario 3 to Mario World, is that the foundation didn't shift between titles. Whether or not you think the level design (or art direction or music, etc) in Mario 3 is better than Mario World, the games are still similar enough in mechanics that it would be easy to imagine someone plucking 1 level out of one game, and dropping it into the other game, and having it all just work. in fact, they did just that, with Mario All-stars.
That can't happen with Castlevania 4. It doesn't feel like any other game in the series. I could see someone taking a stage from Castlvania 3 and dropping it in Bloodlines or Rondo, but with Castlevania 4, the entire game is just too different.
If Castlevania IV is your favorite, you might just hate castlevania.
I get what you say about Mario 3 to Mario World, but I'm confused how the same wouldn't apply to Castlevania 3 to Castlevania 4. At face value, I mean. Health works the same, same sub-weapons and they work more or less the same, same whip attack. But now you've made me consider something; Castlevania 4 controls, in a huge way, more floaty compared to other Castlevania games of that time (edit - clarification: I mean jumping). I think Rondo / Dracula X even managed to make things step back into the proper feel.
Nevertheless, most of my problem with CV4 is that it has an odd aesthetic, not unlike Harmony of Dissonance, and its soundtrack was bad.
I'm talking about engine, not necessarily attributes. I said in the OP that it doesn't look or feel anything like a castlevania game, but rather an unrelated game using the castlevania theme.
To me, the difference between Classicvania and castlevania is akin to the differences between God of War and Dante's Inferno. On a superficial level, they might appear to be the same game, but when you actually play them, there is a lot that id not the same.
Posts
Also, the scaled back difficulty is a huge plus, the SNES was the first time I really felt able to actually complete console games I owned, and see the endings, and feel great. a lot of older games either had no ending, or are "Nintendo hard" (hehehe)
On that note, one of my most memorable gaming moments has been Zelda : Link to the past and it's fantastic ending.
(Also, I will always hate Super Double Dragon for ruining Double dragons and having a single (probably misspelled) paragraph as an ending)
The complain about "MIDI music" makes no sense to me, especially as you state you love "synth-driven soundtracks," which is basically, MIDI-like music.
It took me a second round of Super Castlevania IV to get me to appreciate it more. My only complain is those goddamn stairs.
Anyway, while the SNES wasn't quite superior in the sound department, it came pretty darn close when programmers put the effort into it:
Best thing Bloodlines did, though, is make Portrait of Ruin possible. :P
Ah, much better.
I think these games are mostly a case of you had to be there at the time. Nowadays, Super Castlevania isn't anything special but when it first came out a couple months after the SNES's release in the US, it was amazing. It looked and sounded much better than the NES games and it was much more accessible (probably the first Castlevania that many people were able to actually beat). Sure, Castlevania 3 had the better design but it was also way too hard for most people.
And you should really try Order of Ecclesia. It's a great mix of the old school and Metroidvania Castlevania sensibilities.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I've got your problem right here.
Rondo of Blood came out TWO YEARS after CV4. CV4 was a launch title on the SNES. Rondo of Blood seems to have better sounding music? Well CV series has always had great compositions, now we couple that with an optical disc.
I agree with this 100%. Castlevania IV will always be one of my favorites; the graphics blew me away at the time, and the music is still great. On the previous page when TSR did a comparison between the CV4 and RoB Bloody Tears, I still fall on the side of the CV4 soundtrack in that case.
That being said, I agree about the mode 7 levels being a bit too much of a tech demo (and only crap does that one hallway have a ton of slowdown when you kill skeletons!).
was contemplating trying to learn a few of them on guitar lately
Because goddamn
That game was a real disappointment, right there
I enjoyed Lords of Shadow.
Imma kill this thread.
Ten years from now, Dracula will be retconned again just to purge that piece of trash.
They warned me and I Youtubed it and simply watching it made the whole experience worse. I feel bad for anyone who paid for it.
do it
Controversial Castlevania Opinions:
I also like CV2. :P
I fucking love CV2, even though it's one of the hardest games I've ever played and my grandmother and I would never have beaten it without help due to how fucking vague a lot of the shit in it is.
One of the biggest problems I had with the metroidvanias is that there was barely ever any challenge unless you purposely gimped yourself. Of course, if the areas you had to repeatedly traverse were challenging, getting around would be a huge pain in the ass. OoE addresses that problem by making the game a little more linear, but by doing so they're able to make areas more challenging again. There's also a bonus area of challenging platforming!
I remember the first time I saw Dracula X in a demo booth and heard the music and I was sooooo amazed. Then I played it and wondered where my 8-way whip and slack whip were. I also think that the Dracula X final boss fight is one of the harder ones... I think it's interesting that the PC Engine dracula X final boss was really just a re-creation of the original CV final boss (with what felt like to me an easier final form), while the SNES Dracula X completely changed the arena, and even the appearance of Dracula's final form.
TSR wins for being able to word what I find wrong with Super Castlevania's music better than I have in the past.
A man after my own heart!
The Training Hall was actually pretty easy platforming. The only hard part is when you have to use the Magnes glyph within that one room with the rotating fire rings. And that's it.
The big accomplishment of OoE was creating a difficult Metroidvania style game. But right when Konami succeeds, they say they don't like the Castlevania series and all we have so far from them is a shitty reboot.
Is that in-game music, or is that the arrangement? Either way, pretty rad.
Did you miss the part where I said it was also a step down from Castlevania 3, released years prior, on a system released 6 years prior?
I'm sorry, I'll consider Castlevania 4's feelings in future posts.
The same thing happened with Super Mario Bros. 3, if you think about it; that game is more advanced / feature driven than Super Mario World. Yes the latter looks better, but for an NES game, SMB3 is pretty fucking complex and has a TON of level design awesomeness going on in it.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
The thing about the transition from Mario 3 to Mario World, is that the foundation didn't shift between titles. Whether or not you think the level design (or art direction or music, etc) in Mario 3 is better than Mario World, the games are still similar enough in mechanics that it would be easy to imagine someone plucking 1 level out of one game, and dropping it into the other game, and having it all just work. in fact, they did just that, with Mario All-stars.
That can't happen with Castlevania 4. It doesn't feel like any other game in the series. I could see someone taking a stage from Castlvania 3 and dropping it in Bloodlines or Rondo, but with Castlevania 4, the entire game is just too different.
If Castlevania IV is your favorite, you might just hate castlevania.
The mark of the truly defeated. Do you think this is clever? Can't put up a real argument?
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
You shut your filthy whore mouth.
(Even though you may or may not be correct, depending on who's doing the rating)
But man, Castlevania. IV was indeed, lackluster...though the issue may be that I didn't play it until it came out on VC. Played the NES installments back in the day, and 2 (Simon's Quest) was my favorite. Curious how well it holds up.
Symphony of the Night will probably always hold a special place in my heart. Main problem now is that they keep putting out new ones on consoles I don't fucking have; my DS is dead, only ever played one of those, and I had a couple of the GBA ones. Still prefer SotN, probably because I prefer playing it on my TV. And because it's fuckawesome.
I'm not trying to be clever.
The idea that you're so offended that I made a discussion on a game I got for christmas plays into my claim that there is massive group think associated with this game.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a discussion on not liking something as long as it can actually be discussed with various points and comparisons drawn. TSR has done a better job than people traditionally do.
I may be biased (I'm not saying that as a joke) because I just so happen to not like Super Castlevania.
I can't imagine the amount of malice if I made a 'Platformers suck' thread.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Because "platformers suck" is an awfully big blanket statement, and no one has played every platformer ever. Making an "I don't enjoy platformers" thread would be better, as that's an opinion call and something worth discussiong (i.e. the merit of platformers, what people actually find enjoyable about them).
This isn't a broad topic. It's my views on a specific game. That's the difference.
EDIT: And if you ever did make a topic about how you do don't like the collect-a-thon platformers, I would be there front and center agreeing with you. I think completing a level should be sufficient challenge and goal in a game, without having to artifically pad the length by making a player explore every single uninteresting inch of a level.
But that's a different topic
I get what you say about Mario 3 to Mario World, but I'm confused how the same wouldn't apply to Castlevania 3 to Castlevania 4. At face value, I mean. Health works the same, same sub-weapons and they work more or less the same, same whip attack. But now you've made me consider something; Castlevania 4 controls, in a huge way, more floaty compared to other Castlevania games of that time (edit - clarification: I mean jumping). I think Rondo / Dracula X even managed to make things step back into the proper feel.
Nevertheless, most of my problem with CV4 is that it has an odd aesthetic, not unlike Harmony of Dissonance, and its soundtrack was bad.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
I'm talking about engine, not necessarily attributes. I said in the OP that it doesn't look or feel anything like a castlevania game, but rather an unrelated game using the castlevania theme.
To me, the difference between Classicvania and castlevania is akin to the differences between God of War and Dante's Inferno. On a superficial level, they might appear to be the same game, but when you actually play them, there is a lot that id not the same.