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[SW:TOR] Healer Thread - "Kolto Missile" is a real thing.

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Posts

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Cubemonkey wrote:
    Playing a Consular -> Sage, is the game soloable? I'm not against grouping, since obviously that's what the class is meant for, but sometimes I feel like doing a bit on my own, ya know?

    Companions manage to fill gaps nicely enough where you can kind of play however you feel like playing and they pick up the slack in their alloted role well enough. You'll still need to group for most heroic quests and flashpoints, but that's true for every class

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Sage can solo easy as all hell. If you're DPS you wreck stuff, if you're heals you can let Qyzen tank, help him wreck stuff, and heal him well, and either way you go at 34 you get force quake which means every group without an elite in it just became an aoe explosion.

    They solo tough pulls very well too because they can force lift and remove one of the enemies from the equation.

  • TK-42-1TK-42-1 Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    every group without an elite in it just became an aoe explosion.

    as a commando i find this funny

    sig.jpgsmugriders.gif
  • KhildithKhildith Registered User regular
    So I respecced healing for PVP. I'm only 35, but I'm wrecking these things. I bring Corrigan to tank for me and Guard makes things simple as possible. There are many warzones where I don't die at all, and I had a voidstar where the entire match only one person died, and thats because my UI doesn't always have accurate health.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Heal/tank pvp teams are ridiculous. If you don't have a tank guarding you and taunting/ccing dudes who attack you, you explode in pvp as a healer, but if you do, you're pretty much an unstoppable machine. When I queue on my defense Guard with one of my guild healers, we probably win 80% of the matches regardless of map.

    Joshmvii on
  • Iggy13Iggy13 Registered User
    Iggy13 wrote:
    Lorek wrote:
    Would this be a good build for a Sorcerer healer?

    You might want to try salvaging a point from somewhere to get Sith Purity. I'm finding it super useful being able to remove like 90% of all debuffs, and its a super cheap top off heal on top of it.

    sith purity is nice. me personally i would take points out of fadeout and put them into empty body unless i was planning on pvping

    yeah. 3 second speed boost dosn't sound too great for PVE. Hard to see what all these talents are supposed to do before I get the chance to play. I know healing yourself is important but I figured Empty Body was just a nice bonus that I could get away without having. But I can take a point from the willpower talent and use it and the points from fadeout to get purity and empty body.

    really it comes down to any situation where there is a decent amount of AoE dmg being dished out and you find it difficult to keep up with it. Less time spent healing yourself = more time healing the tank. Otherwise its a personal tradeoff between empty body and fadeout seeing how there really isnt much else to put points into in the corruption tree that haven't been accounted for.

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    Iggy - Sorcerer / Piggy - Marauder
  • AstaleAstale Registered User regular
    So around 30 and my inq healer feels like a tiny god. Granted, if I actually try and HIT things they laugh at me, but in any heroic content I DECIDE WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES. It's fun.

    Alistair wrote: »
    I use Dog as a cover for when I put dead animals in Morrigan's underthings
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Honestly, DPS as an inquis/sage heal spec is not really all that bad. It's not DPS spec, but this is not like a holy paladin trying to dps in wow or something. You have some serious hurt in your toolbox.

  • Kafka87Kafka87 Registered User regular
    As a Sawbones, I can echo Joshmvii. Fully heal specced, but soloing is still hella fun and viable. Get behind, blast with shotgun/quickvolley/pistolwhip/etc until dead. Probably just takes a bit longer and hurts me/Bowdaar a bit more so more frequent resting. But otherwsise, all easy.

    Also, so great to switch to healbot mode on champs/elites to heal up companion when necessary before reverting to pew pew.

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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Kafka87 wrote:
    As a Sawbones, I can echo Joshmvii. Fully heal specced, but soloing is still hella fun and viable. Get behind, blast with shotgun/quickvolley/pistolwhip/etc until dead. Probably just takes a bit longer and hurts me/Bowdaar a bit more so more frequent resting. But otherwsise, all easy.

    Also, so great to switch to healbot mode on champs/elites to heal up companion when necessary before reverting to pew pew.

    Here to chime in and say these gents have it right. My fully Sawbones-specced dude is 25, and I've never felt like I was gimped while soloing. As a healer, this MMO does a really good job of keeping my damage abilities powerful so I can solo efficiently. It's in my top five things I love best about the game.

    Battle.net: Spawnbroker#1471
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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Honestly, DPS as an inquis/sage heal spec is not really all that bad. It's not DPS spec, but this is not like a holy paladin trying to dps in wow or something. You have some serious hurt in your toolbox.

    Just to continue this discussion, my buddy who is a full heal spec sage DPSed in both Taral V and Maelstrom prison, so our group was Guard tank, Sage heal, Sage heal(dpsing), and Sentinel DPS. We annihilated things. I mean, the heal spec sage doesn't kill quite as fast as the sentinel obviously, but this is not your WoW healer trying to DPS. This was both in the low 30s and also the mid late 30s.

    I have long since said that Warhammer failing and the Mythic guys going to Bioware was the best thing that could ever have happened to the development of this game. Bioware knows story, but these guys know how to make classes fun to play, and that's exactly what they did. Their fingerprints are all over every single class, both PvE and PvP with all the DPS healers can do, stuns, knockbacks, tons of CCs, etc.

    Joshmvii on
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    TK-42-1 wrote:
    Joshmvii wrote:
    every group without an elite in it just became an aoe explosion.

    as a commando i find this funny

    Indeed, Troopers and Bounty Hunters, particually Mercs and Commandos follow this logic at level 10, nevermind 34. With accually explosions too :P

    Foefaller on
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  • Chases Street DemonsChases Street Demons Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Honestly, DPS as an inquis/sage heal spec is not really all that bad. It's not DPS spec, but this is not like a holy paladin trying to dps in wow or something. You have some serious hurt in your toolbox.

    Just to continue this discussion, my buddy who is a full heal spec sage DPSed in both Taral V and Maelstrom prison, so our group was Guard tank, Sage heal, Sage heal(dpsing), and Sentinel DPS. We annihilated things. I mean, the heal spec sage doesn't kill quite as fast as the sentinel obviously, but this is not your WoW healer trying to DPS. This was both in the low 30s and also the mid late 30s.

    I have long since said that Warhammer failing and the Mythic guys going to Bioware was the best thing that could ever have happened to the development of this game. Bioware knows story, but these guys know how to make classes fun to play, and that's exactly what they did. Their fingerprints are all over every single class, both PvE and PvP with all the DPS healers can do, stuns, knockbacks, tons of CCs, etc.

    I agree with this last part - I just wish they had included the targeting mechanic from WAR where you had a friendly and hostile target, and your action determined where it landed. Toss a heal and it landed on the ally, attack and it landed on the enemy. Sure you can accomplish the same thing here with last target keys, but I really fell in love with healing in WAR when I could smack someone and then heal someone else without having to lose time in the transition.

    "Sometimes things aren't complicated," I said. "You just have to be willing to accept the absolute corruption of everybody involved."

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote:
    TK-42-1 wrote:
    Joshmvii wrote:
    every group without an elite in it just became an aoe explosion.

    as a commando i find this funny

    Indeed, Troopers and Bounty Hunters, particually Mercs and Commandos follow this logic at level 10, nevermind 34. With accually explosions too :P

    But you don't have a light saber, so yeah, gg. =P J/k, I love the Commando.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Joshmvii wrote:
    Honestly, DPS as an inquis/sage heal spec is not really all that bad. It's not DPS spec, but this is not like a holy paladin trying to dps in wow or something. You have some serious hurt in your toolbox.

    Just to continue this discussion, my buddy who is a full heal spec sage DPSed in both Taral V and Maelstrom prison, so our group was Guard tank, Sage heal, Sage heal(dpsing), and Sentinel DPS. We annihilated things. I mean, the heal spec sage doesn't kill quite as fast as the sentinel obviously, but this is not your WoW healer trying to DPS. This was both in the low 30s and also the mid late 30s.

    I have long since said that Warhammer failing and the Mythic guys going to Bioware was the best thing that could ever have happened to the development of this game. Bioware knows story, but these guys know how to make classes fun to play, and that's exactly what they did. Their fingerprints are all over every single class, both PvE and PvP with all the DPS healers can do, stuns, knockbacks, tons of CCs, etc.

    I agree with this last part - I just wish they had included the targeting mechanic from WAR where you had a friendly and hostile target, and your action determined where it landed. Toss a heal and it landed on the ally, attack and it landed on the enemy. Sure you can accomplish the same thing here with last target keys, but I really fell in love with healing in WAR when I could smack someone and then heal someone else without having to lose time in the transition.

    Definitely. I certainly hope defensive target is something they end up putting in, because it would work perfectly for this game since healers do damage and heal in pvp, and also of course it's helpful for PvE. I might have to try to leave feedback mentioning that.

  • EntaruEntaru Goddess with a blade Registered User regular
    I'm having a hard time deciding between Commando and Sawbones for long term healing play.

    Both are pretty fun in their own way and they both have a very compelling story.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    Entaru wrote:
    I'm having a hard time deciding between Commando and Sawbones for long term healing play.

    Both are pretty fun in their own way and they both have a very compelling story.

    Do yourself a favor and try the Jedi Sage/Sith Sorc before making a decision. I began as an Operative/Scoundrel, tried Commando/Merc and am new playing a Sith Sorc/Jedi Sage. Out of the three, I find Sith Sorc the most "tolerable" to play in terms of healing and damage. Resource management is not as unforgiving as with the other classes and so I find it easier on my "nerves" in the long term.

    But in anycase, here's the lowdown between Commando and Scoundrel: Commando can spec into AoE heals while Scoundrel focuses on single target healing. Commando's AoE are less powerful than Scoundrels single target focus heals.

  • grouch993grouch993 Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    Was having issues with the party frame occasionally not updating, so switched to raid frame. Raid frame will also not update at times. Also had a funny one was where a party members health bar went three times as long as the full bar.

    About the only other thing that is a little frustrating when healing is not being entirely used to the global cooldown. Will be refreshing shields, or trying to drop in a HoT during shield refresh and then cycle past someone because I hit the keys too quickly.

    grouch993 on
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  • EntaruEntaru Goddess with a blade Registered User regular
    Yogo wrote:
    Entaru wrote:
    I'm having a hard time deciding between Commando and Sawbones for long term healing play.

    Both are pretty fun in their own way and they both have a very compelling story.

    Do yourself a favor and try the Jedi Sage/Sith Sorc before making a decision. I began as an Operative/Scoundrel, tried Commando/Merc and am new playing a Sith Sorc/Jedi Sage. Out of the three, I find Sith Sorc the most "tolerable" to play in terms of healing and damage. Resource management is not as unforgiving as with the other classes and so I find it easier on my "nerves" in the long term.

    But in anycase, here's the lowdown between Commando and Scoundrel: Commando can spec into AoE heals while Scoundrel focuses on single target healing. Commando's AoE are less powerful than Scoundrels single target focus heals.

    Thank you. I'll give it a try soon.

    I think I am leaning toward the Commando right now but It's a pretty hard choice for me for some reason.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
  • YogoYogo Registered User regular
    Entaru wrote:
    Yogo wrote:
    Entaru wrote:
    I'm having a hard time deciding between Commando and Sawbones for long term healing play.

    Both are pretty fun in their own way and they both have a very compelling story.

    Do yourself a favor and try the Jedi Sage/Sith Sorc before making a decision. I began as an Operative/Scoundrel, tried Commando/Merc and am new playing a Sith Sorc/Jedi Sage. Out of the three, I find Sith Sorc the most "tolerable" to play in terms of healing and damage. Resource management is not as unforgiving as with the other classes and so I find it easier on my "nerves" in the long term.

    But in anycase, here's the lowdown between Commando and Scoundrel: Commando can spec into AoE heals while Scoundrel focuses on single target healing. Commando's AoE are less powerful than Scoundrels single target focus heals.

    Thank you. I'll give it a try soon.

    I think I am leaning toward the Commando right now but It's a pretty hard choice for me for some reason.

    Make two characters and switch between them when you prefer a different style :p

  • EntaruEntaru Goddess with a blade Registered User regular
    Yogo wrote:

    Make two characters and switch between them when you prefer a different style :p

    That's been the plan so far. . . My leveling group is getting out ahead of me due to this indecision however.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    So I hit 17 on my scoundrel, decided to give healing a shot. Ran into hammer station, specced for DPS, using blaster whip for the buff and, well, that ended badly. So I respecced full healer (as best as you can with 8 points) and gave it another shot. It still was horrible. I could not heal through the last boss for anything. I could hold it together pretty easily unless a few people got caught in an explosion. But even if they didn't, I just couldn't keep than all alive through the adds, energy regen became a huge problem.

    17 is advertised level for hammer station, I would think a 17 specced for healing would have little difficulty. Having one big heal for 25 energy and a smaller one dependant upon that buff just seems to be too few tools for healing. Am I missing something here? Or should scoundrels wait to hit a certain point in the tree to really become effective? Or was I stuck with an especially horrible group?

    They did all run out onto the bridge while it was red. I nearly fell out of my chair when it disappeared. I mean, it was blue and they all just stared at it, it turns red and they wait a moment, then all three charge out moments before it vanishes.

    Wicked Uncle Ernie on
  • grouch993grouch993 Registered User regular
    Ran it as a Sith Sorc spec'ed for healing, our group makeup was juggernaut, assassin, lightning sorc and myself. I focused on healing the tank, we moved from the bombs and the assassin/dps sorc focused on the adds. Took a few tries due to the knock back sometimes forcing one of us over the ramp or back to the hallway and resetting the encounter.

    If scoundrel is set up like Sorc, the small heal costs too much versus the slower and bigger heal. If not, ignore me on that and take a backup heal/dps next time?

    I have had a number of runs where we have two tank/dps types and two dps/heal types. Those are usually steamroller events.

    Steam Profile Origin grouchiy
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The end boss of Hammer Station is just a bad encounter. Its unlikely that your healing was to blame if you made it that far as a fairly cohesive team.

  • Wicked Uncle ErnieWicked Uncle Ernie Registered User regular
    Hmm. My sentinel never had an issue, actually hasn't had trouble anywhere. But all I do on him is chop stuff up.

    I also let myself die more often than is fun. I love that my hps aren't in the party frame. No I don't.

  • TK-42-1TK-42-1 Registered User regular
    ive been a heal specced commando the entire time and I havent had any problems healing the various FPs ive run through mando raiders. ive only had one or two people die in parts where you dont expect a bunch of damage all at once (like that one hallway in mando before the 2nd boss set). otherwise it's been pretty damn smooth. i pull agro occasionally, but i just pop my shield and tank it out. there was one point where the tank and one of the dps were knocked off the bridge and i stood there healtanking until they got back. if you spec correctly and work your rotation ammo is never a problem.

    with combat support cells active:
    always do hammershot heals while running between fights. keep your supercharge cells ready
    -start fight-
    hammershot until someone needs a good heal (adds 3 to combat cells)
    kolto bomb (adds 10% healing for 15s) *this site says 5% but i think its 10*
    advanced med probe (short cast and reduces med probe from 3 ammo to 1)
    med probe (adds 6 to support cells)

    -oh shit moment-
    pop supercharge (adv med probe no cooldown)
    koltobomb (bonus healing +10% dmg reduction)
    adv probe
    med probe

    and then you just switch between amp and mp with hammershots to top up. once you get the spec right, popping amp before mp gives you both heals for the same price as a single med probe. its really quite amazing how quickly you can stop the health dropping and get them back into a comfortable level. the 10% dmg reduction plus 10% healing of supercharge plus 10% healing of koltobomb rules

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  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    So I haven't looked around at any recommended specs, but my healmmando is currently at 46, and http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#800bfRMRbcdkqZrcoZb.1 is what he's likely to look like at 50. Not sure why the assault specialist skill is listed as increasing stockstrike damage when it is an alacrity boost ingame.

    So how terrible is this?

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
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  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    So I hit 17 on my scoundrel, decided to give healing a shot. Ran into hammer station, specced for DPS, using blaster whip for the buff and, well, that ended badly. So I respecced full healer (as best as you can with 8 points) and gave it another shot. It still was horrible. I could not heal through the last boss for anything. I could hold it together pretty easily unless a few people got caught in an explosion. But even if they didn't, I just couldn't keep than all alive through the adds, energy regen became a huge problem.

    I Scoundrel healed Hammer Station twice over this long weekend (both with PA groups), once at ~17ish and once at 20. The main difference is the higher-level run included my instant-cast HoT (which I'm kinda "eh" about at the moment).

    This is the first group content, I think, that is meaningfully challenging, and especially the last boss.

    Absolutely key to Scoundrel healing in general, I think, is keeping your Pugnacity buff at 100% uptime (at least while fighting). I primarily play a Ret Pally in WoW, so I'm used to watching my Inquisition buff and refreshing it before it drops off. In this case, you've got an ability with a 45s duration and a 30s cooldown that consumes one charge of Upper Hand (which you can get by either pistol whipping something or by casting your basic heal). In short, there is no reason whatsoever that you should ever not be regenning an extra 1 energy / second.

    As a scoundrel, at this level, you have no AoE healing capability. Thus, if multiple people start taking lots of damage, you're going to be in trouble. Accordingly, careful CC management throughout and making sure people all focus fire is going to be important.

    The last boss is a real party-cohesiveness-check. If people stand in the grenades, they will take too much damage for you to heal through (no AoE ability), and you will wipe. If people don't pick up the adds, they will come eat your face, and you will wipe.

    So, if your DPSers are good at picking up the adds and burning them down quickly (and you can, and should, help with this by tossing grenades / basic shots), and if you can convince people to move out of the grenades, you'll be golden. Our first attempt (in the 20th-level group) failed because some people* sorta charged in. Our second attempt went nigh-flawlessly (one DPSer stood in some grenades** and died about midway through the fight, but we finished it off without anyone else dropping; this meant our tank had to help out with the adds, but he picked them up really well). In contrast, the level 17 took only a single try, and the only person who died was me by being blasted off the platform.

    Scoundrel healing, IMO, is really about triage. You want to stay up in the top-range of energy regen or, at worst, one step down, as much as possible. If you find you have to burst heal, you're going to be low on energy and with your regen dropped into the basement - at which point, you need to pop Stay Cool, not only for the extra energy points, but because that will also boost your regen back up. With Pugnacity up, you can cast 3 Underworld Medicines in a row without seriously impacting your regen, but a 4th one will hurt you badly. Working in a Kolto Pack will help, a little, because of its lighter energy cost, but the faster cast time might make it so that, ironically, you're burning through your resources faster.

    I haven't really worked Diagnostic Scan into my rotation yet; the healing it does is laughable, and I've found that tossing out standard blaster shots is a better use of my next couple GCDs than a 3s channeled ability that returns about 75 HP (to a pool of a couple thousand). Maybe when it's talented to become a direct energy refill skill it'll be worth it, but I'm not sure.

    Hope that helps!

    * ;)
    ** It was probably more like bad luck.

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    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
  • cuellarcuellar Registered User
    At L20 fully heal spec'd, I had a little trouble on the last boss the first run through (even though I had my L20 talent). I think the key was my crappy playstyle... I was just sitting there and healing, but I needed to make sure I mixed it up more. Basically I had to:
    - get out of bomb area first
    - Use knockback when mobs were near me
    - Do a better job running to the tank when stuff was on me
    - Stun lock trash if it was near me to help get them down.
    - Have dps make sure they kill trash on me quickly
    - Keep myself bubbled if possible (so no healing interrupt/slowdown)
    - Use my cooldowns early/often instead of waiting to use them and forgetting

    After our first fail, we seriously beat down the final boss with the above changes. I guess I was just being lazy the first run through.

    Also, heal sometimes seems buggy and jumps a lot, so I made sure to heal early and often. Also, pop a medpack instead of wasting force on a self heal.

    "Fuck newbies. They deserve it for not being high enough level to fight back." - TDL
  • cptruggedcptrugged Time Dilated Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote:
    The end boss of Hammer Station is just a bad encounter. Its unlikely that your healing was to blame if you made it that far as a fairly cohesive team.

    Exactly, to throw that encounter at a team that doesn't even have thier lvl 20 abilities yet is just bad. I don't run hammer any more unless I'm 20.

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    cptrugged wrote:
    Lucascraft wrote:
    The end boss of Hammer Station is just a bad encounter. Its unlikely that your healing was to blame if you made it that far as a fairly cohesive team.

    Exactly, to throw that encounter at a team that doesn't even have thier lvl 20 abilities yet is just bad. I don't run hammer any more unless I'm 20.

    I don't think it's a bad encounter at all.

    It's just tricky.

    And, unfortunately, we still haven't seen an MMO that does a great job of teaching you how to play this kind of group content other than by tossing you into it and letting you sink or swim.

    As in, ideally, there'd be three mini-bosses in Hammer Station: one that tosses grenades around (the mining droid does this, kinda); one that has an AoE knockback that knocks you off a platform (and makes you climb back up; not kill you); and one that brings in a bunch of adds that have to be picked up. And, also ideally, you'd toss a bunch of grenade-using lower-level mobs, some swarmer types, etc., in throughout the mission.

    Then, the main boss mixes all three mechanics together and turns them up to 11. (And, maybe, adds a new wrinkle - like the cone of fire effect that this guy has.)

    Instead, we've got the mining droid (which has grenade analogs with the assisting droids; good!); the three bounty-hunter types (I always slice the droid DPS badguy and save him for last and then suggest that the party to focus-fire on the healer [though you don't have to and can win pretty easily without doing it]; these mechanics aren't really used elsewhere in the FP); and the final boss.

    Elvenshae on
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  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    For the short time I played Operative, it felt incredibly high maintenance.

    Like you'd be watching your hotkey bar more often than the fight if you want to keep up with everything, and you'd be juggling a thousand cooldowns and a buff that needs to be reapplied constantly, just so that you can perform adequately as a healer.

    I really like the concept of Operative/Scoundrel Healing, but in execution it's about as unfun to me as they could manage. Sith Sorcerer feels so much easier and better by comparison.

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  • Mad JazzMad Jazz Registered User regular
    I also let myself die more often than is fun. I love that my hps aren't in the party frame. No I don't.

    You should use the ops frame as party frame. Not only does it look way better, it has your health bar in there too.

    camo_sig2.png
  • Fig-DFig-D Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote:
    For the short time I played Operative, it felt incredibly high maintenance.

    Like you'd be watching your hotkey bar more often than the fight if you want to keep up with everything, and you'd be juggling a thousand cooldowns and a buff that needs to be reapplied constantly, just so that you can perform adequately as a healer.

    I really like the concept of Operative/Scoundrel Healing, but in execution it's about as unfun to me as they could manage. Sith Sorcerer feels so much easier and better by comparison.

    You get more used to it. I would watch my energy bar to know when I could or couldn't do something, but I'm getting to the point where I just know what my resources are and how I need to manage them.

    SteamID - Fig-D :: PSN - Fig-D
  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    The hammer station boss you're discussing must just be tough for people who aren't familiar with the golden rules of get out of poop and kill adds or something, because I ran that place a couple times while it was level appropriate and I honestly can't even remember what any of the bosses do. It wasn't until we got to the last guy in Athiss that I really felt like any of the bosses had any mechanics you had to respect.

  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    The hammer station boss you're discussing must just be tough for people who aren't familiar with the golden rules of get out of poop and kill adds or something, because I ran that place a couple times while it was level appropriate and I honestly can't even remember what any of the bosses do. It wasn't until we got to the last guy in Athiss that I really felt like any of the bosses had any mechanics you had to respect.

    This is a lot of people's first MMO. Not saying that applies to anyone here, but you would not believe the stupidity I've been running in to at lower levels.

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  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    The hammer station boss you're discussing must just be tough for people who aren't familiar with the golden rules of get out of poop and kill adds or something, because I ran that place a couple times while it was level appropriate and I honestly can't even remember what any of the bosses do. It wasn't until we got to the last guy in Athiss that I really felt like any of the bosses had any mechanics you had to respect.

    This is a lot of people's first MMO. Not saying that applies to anyone here, but you would not believe the stupidity I've been running in to at lower levels.

    No doubt about that, and I've done some heroic 4 quests with people who clearly have never played an MMO. I try to help them along, explain the way we're using CC, focus targets, etc. Otherwise they think the game plays the same in a group as solo and they should just kill whatever they want in any order. I'm really just glad I have a lot of friends playing this together so I never have to do FPs with those people, because while I can be patient and helpful, it only goes so far. Especially when I know half the people playing troopers would need the heavy strength armor. haha

  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote:
    The hammer station boss you're discussing must just be tough for people who aren't familiar with the golden rules of get out of poop and kill adds or something, because I ran that place a couple times while it was level appropriate and I honestly can't even remember what any of the bosses do. It wasn't until we got to the last guy in Athiss that I really felt like any of the bosses had any mechanics you had to respect.

    We ran it at level 18 with Mako healing and had zero issues

    Mako was our primary, and only, healer

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  • cptruggedcptrugged Time Dilated Registered User regular
    Maddoc wrote:
    We ran it at level 18 with Mako healing and had zero issues

    Mako was our primary, and only, healer

    It's definitely all about who you are with. I mostly pug'd it. And people weren't getting out of the cone, and the dps weren't immediately taking out the adds. One time I was in a pug that wiped four times before I was finally able to get across to the others not to stand in fire.

    As others have said, its all about the experience of those you're running with. I just found it very unfriendly to "I don't really know my class yet" sort of folk you can find running around in the teens. For a lot of guys, thats also the first time they've tried primary healing on thier own. It just seemed very sudden in its jump in difficulty.

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited December 2011
    The fight itself isn't hard; it's tricky.

    If you master the tricks, you'll be fine.

    The problem, as I said, is that it's really the first fight (maybe the second if you count the earlier droid), where there are tricks.

    And going from normal-combat to trick-based combat is a tough transition if the game doesn't lead you down the path a bit, and TOR doesn't (yet).

    EDIT: MOAR THOUGHTS!

    I mean, there's essentially 4 mechanics in this fight:

    1) Grenades
    2) Adds
    3) Force Push (into the abyss, occasionally)
    4) Cone attack for mega damage

    Leveling through Ord Mantell and then Coruscant, this is really the first time I've seen those mechanics come up in a serious way (again, excluding the demo droids earlier in the same dungeon). As a "seasoned MMO vet," I kinda know what to do here. But there are a lot of people who are not, and this is a very sink-or-swim fight.

    1) Some enemies throughout the game throw grenades - but they work like Smuggler / Trooper grenades: targeted on a person, explode instantly for some AoE damage, not really huge. These are new grenade mechanics, that are only sort-of introduced during the mining droid fight. There's also the sith from the Esseles who does the lightning bolt ground marker, but that's quite a few play hours previous, and he does it way less frequently.

    2) I think this is the first fight where adds show up in continuous waves. All previous fights had a certain number of badguys present, including, sometimes, lower-powered badguys, but once they were beaten, they stayed dead. "DPS need to pick up and burn down the normal adds or they will eat the healer" is a great lesson to teach, but it's being thrown at you in a mish-mash of other mechanics, and so is hard to learn as this fight is going on.

    3) Is there an enemy on the Esseles who does this? I don't recall, but I don't think so. Maybe the Sith at the end? I know he has the occasional force lightning bolt, but I don't recall an AoE push mechanic, and certainly not one that can take you out of the fight, momentarily or permanently.

    4) This is pretty much new, and introduces the "Tank needs to keep the badguy pointing away from everyone else" mechanic. If the other three mechanics were well-instilled by this point, then layering this on as an added wrinkle would be cool; as it stands, it's just one other thing to learn during the same fight, which adds to the difficulty.

    I've said this before, about WoW, but what is really needed is normal, everyday enemies who use boss mechanics throughout the leveling experience so that players get used to them (e.g., grenadier enemies who toss out grenades that you have to move away from), and then bosses in the FPs who reinforce those mechanics before you get to the end guy who requires you to apply everything at the same time (and learn a final new wrinkle). That's really the only way to teach people to play the FP game.

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