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G&T open discussion thread
Captain K
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
As many people are well aware, some "G&T drama" has occurred recently, and I've been following the discussions about it over the last couple of days. I'm seeing a pretty hefty amount of misinformation being spread, either intentionally or unintentionally, so I'm starting this thread to give people a chance to say whatever's on their mind or ask for clarification about anything, whether related to the aforementioned drama or anything else G&T-related at all.
I can't promise an answer to every question, but feel free to ask anything at all. The worst you'll get is a "sorry, can't say."
And if you really feel it necessary to "get something off your chest" in this thread, please at least try to do it in a civil manner.
So, the floor's open. Who's first?
I can't promise an answer to every question, but feel free to ask anything at all. The worst you'll get is a "sorry, can't say."
And if you really feel it necessary to "get something off your chest" in this thread, please at least try to do it in a civil manner.
So, the floor's open. Who's first?
Captain K on
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This discussion has been closed.
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And are our precious chat-threads being threatened?
PSN: ItsTryke
T-Nation blog
I mean I understand we're an on-topic forum, but why G&T alone?
Also, what the hell is up with the mods lately? I'm not trying to sound like an ass, and I know I probably am(so I apologize) but lately certain mods have seemed...out of hand. Thread titles are being changed, members being directly insulted, threads and forumers being trolled and then having the trolling passed off as "an experiment"/"organic scene"? What is this all about?
Speaking of the "organic scene", what the fuck was that all about? Are they trying to test our reaction to randomly entering a police-state on certain issues for no reason? Because I think it's a given we'd be on edge and cranky.
Again, if anything in my post comes off as abraisive, rude, or out of line I apologize. I wish to use this thread as an orderly and calm "What's going on" type of thread just as much as anyone else and would rather it not be locked because I stepped over a line by accident.
Short version: sometimes what seems stupid because pretty much everybody is complaining about it is still the right thing to do.
I better add my 2c.
I disagree with deadonthestreets.
He nearly never participates in a positive discussion. I don't think that someone that is such a bad forumer should be a leader of the community.
Echo and Mono almost never post. Mono claims to read the forum, and be on IRC a lot. People who are not part of the community should not make decisions on what is best for the community. Echo is worse than Mono on this issue.
I think a lot of regular forumers feel the same about this.
Some of the mods seem to think there are major problems with the forum. I think the biggest problem is a lack of leadership, and a bad example set by some of those in a leadership position.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but it needed to be said.
As unbiased as possible(gonna be hard, so bare with me) would be this:
A mod introduces an experimental rule. No 4chan. Massive arguments break out over wether or not this is not only worth it, but really all that important. There seem to be nobody but mods behind the decision.
Eventually, it breaks down and we're told it was an "organic scene"(Experiment, as it seemed to us) but I'm a bit fuzzy on WHAT it was meant to test...
Anyway, there is eventually mod in-fighting, and worry over wether or not mcc(one of the most well-loved mods) getting demodded or not.
Isn't one of the things that is good for the long-term a moderator bulllpen that does not engender suspicion and hostility from the userbase?
T-Nation blog
[spoiler:1474f64eed]Heh, sorry. What can I say? I get a chance to be heard without yelling, and I get inexplicably verbose.[/spoiler:1474f64eed]
And I must agree. I mean I know this might as well be painting a target, but I agree with DoTS. We need mods who actually KNOW the community. As much as I opposed it at the time(and I'm still not a fan of him, but not as opposed to him) Captain K WAS an active member of the forum. mcc posts all the time, as does Raijin and Orik. Whereas guys like Mono, Echo, and Apo...shit, I didn't know what forum they modded until I got curious and browsed through the Forum Groups thing. I can stand behind Imran(:winky:) I can stand behind Kilogre(again, :winky:), but I really can't stand behind someone who not only insults us when he DOES post, but trolls us as well and gets away with it.
And you'll be happy to know K: No questions in there
what happened in the chat thread was not--I repeat, was not--any kind of "experiment" at all. apotheos made a comment that was basically "someday, there will be a rule against this thing that is currently commonplace", and it erupted into the 40 pages that followed. It was completely spontaneous.
apotheos used the word "experiment" for reasons I don't think even he understands. It was a mistake.
For some reason, nobody seems to want to believe this, and I doubt Imran will change his sig based on me just telling you that this is the truth... but it's the truth. I don't know what other words I can use to explain it. No mind games, no experiment, no deadly, sinister motives. Just a poor choice of words in the heat of the moment.
But thats like saying water is wet.
Note: I dont have wireless set up yet so I wont be able to add you just yet.
Echo, though? o_O
I.e., "This is a 13+ community".
I guess I was looking backwards a little.
Apologies to echo.
That doesn't make the idea behind it okay. "Someday something will randomly change and you'll be expected to IMMEDIETLY follow that rule, or else." That's not how you run a forum.
I'm not sure how I want to phrase this, so forgive me if it sounds awkward, but there's been an awful lot of condescension and elitism coming from the mods toward the forumers. As in, not in Pheezer's cute little "I'm smarter than you" sort of way, but in a very "You're very much below us because we have a jpg that says m-o-d below our avatars" way.
Whether you want to admit it or not, some of our mods are not necessarily bad mods, but they are awful forumers and completely horrible members of this community. Apotheos has trolled more than any other person I've ever seen in G&T and the only result of it is a smug "So?" attitude from him. If anyone without a mod badge did this, they would constantly be in jail.
Is there any effort to apologize for this? Explain his actions? No, only excuses. Apotheos does some shit in the chat thread and the rest of the mod staff positively rushes to make excuses about it, attempting to paint very different pictures than what actually happened. Hell, as far as I know, Apo might be a great guy. But holy shit, he certainly does not show this as a poster.
But this isn't just about him. The mods as a whole have been perpetuating this "Us vs. Them" mentality for a while now. Do you want to know what G&T mods were most well loved and well respected? mcc and Raijin. They're effective mods without being insufferable pricks, they do their job without needing to throw their weight around. Now that Raijin's resigned, you can understand how there's a lot of uncertainty about the mod staff right now.
You can write it off as "Oh man those forumers are just creating drama again we better not listen because this status quo is so awesome" or, in the much more likely situation, one of the mods will attempt to argue with me by belittiling me and subtly threatening a temp ban. The best thing you can do, as far as real social growth for the community as a whole, is discuss these things in a fair way and not just believing that somehow your badge validates your opinions.
This is another one of those things that you'll just have to trust me on. I can't force you to do it.
Faith in the leadership seems to be in short supply at the moment.
because a lot of us feel that that lack of faith has been earned.
Agreed on all points, particularly the first one. Pheezer is also extremely guilty of acting like that when in G&T, expecially during that whole business the other night. It was rather pathetic to be honest.
I'm not one of those people. And I don't think that's how this forum has ever been run. Just offering food for thought.
Inquiring minds want to know.
I don't say this to patronize--can you just re-ask the specific concerns you're talking about?
If the chat thread does end up going away, or changing somehow, you will get ample warning and a lot of explanation. And, if I get my way, a voice in the decision-making process.
Maybe even Whippy will.
Hi Whippy!
More complicated than that? A bit, yes... but in essence, he resigned.
I think it's up to Whippy if he wants to elaborate here. I don't want to overstep my bounds (any more than I might be with this thread).