Which reminds me; My personal preference is traditional mana by region and cost by distance. I am good with either red borders for all or correct colors.
While correct colors would be cool I can understand if people who hate blue but are from Eurasia not wanting to get "stuck" with a card they aren't 100% happy with, and also I understand that 6 colors of frames adds another set of layers to the template making this a tad less easy.
Hmmm... actually all Magic cards have a black border on them (except the early ones that were white). Couldn't we use that basic template, change the black outer border to red for PAX East, then use whatever color for the inner border?
Thanks for the positive feedback, guys! I'm really glad to hear people like how it turned out ^__^
Now the interesting thing about creating M:TG style cards and never having played is that I'm kind of lost on the technical terms. BUT.
If I got this right, would making little icons like this:
(very rough sketches, obviously)
be sort of in the ball-park of what you guys are talking about for region? Is the mana thing the upper right-hand corner icon?
As far as colors go; I'm not opposed to having different colors by region, and then using "preferred gaming type" icons.
Rough ideas:
Either way works. Having different colors included in the template is easy.
I guess the idea is we need to solidify the plan.
And come up with a full list of icons (in either case) so we can get those down sooner rather than later.
I'm heading to Boston this weekend, so I'll have a lot of free time on the bus to doodle. XD
I bet someone who's not lazy could come up with a calculator to do cost as distance in miles or kilometers on a base 10 logarithmic scale. Then we could just plug in distance and it would figure it out.
Logarithms in base ten are easy to approximate. Just count the number of digits, and subtract one (ignoring the decimal, obviously).
For instance, from Ottawa to Boston is 405 miles according to Google Maps. That's about 2. Or 2.607 to be exact.
From the London, UK, boston's more like 3269 miles, which is roughly 3. Or 3.514, when calculated.
For the Aussies, Sydney is about 10084 miles away, which would be just over 4. (4.004)
Why fuck around with math when we can just count and subtract?
It might be even easier to use the following chart:
< 10 = 0
10 = 1
50 = 2
100 = 3
500 = 4
1000 = 5
5000 = 6
10000 = 7
What format would be most useful for something like that? I can easily whip something up in Javascript or whatnot, but at present my web server is an expensive paperweight.
Does photoshop have a scripting language that would be suitable for something like that?
Or could we host a JS web trick on the PA community wiki?
If someone knows how to script to photoshop, then that would be awesome. In the past we've created a template that allows every to easier select the badges and input text through many layers. I'm able to whip up a card in ten minutes or less.
1) Traditional Plains, swamps, forests, Islands, and Mountains for mana based on region with cost based on distance. Flavor A: we re-color the borders of the cards as per the mana cost being more true to the magic theme, but knocking down card unity a notch. Group cards like cookie brigade can have multiple colors (gold border) to reflect their membership. Flavor B: We keep the card borders red regardless of the mana cost. (maybe keeping gold for groups)
2) In order to keep all the cards red AND not have discordant magic-the0gathering mana costs we could use the "Types of gaming" as Mana costs icons: Handheld, Console, Minatures, Dice, and Cards. And everyone makes up a personal cost based on preference.
I am not completely opposed to the symbols for regions, but I feel it's a little abstract. If izzie thinks we can make other symbols work and we have the time, then I'm for it.
Due to the time frame I think this would only work if someone has coded against photoshop before.
Fair enough. The multi-layered template approach is easy and fairly approachable.
Once the templates are made I may download the trial of CS5 and see if I can automate some of the layer-fu that needs to be done to go from template to finished product, though, if nobody minds. Coding is fun - I don't get to do it much any more.
Unless, of course, someone with Photoshop scripting experience wants to take it on.
Yes, this is the PAX East version of buttoneering. There will be templates and such forthcoming shortly, along with suggestions on how to get them printed . . .
Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error - Linus Pauling
I am not completely opposed to the symbols for regions, but I feel it's a little abstract. If izzie thinks we can make other symbols work and we have the time, then I'm for it.
I too think the regional icons are a little too abstract.
The easiest way to go about these sets of ideas, I think, is to pick a color for each region and then make mana icons based on 5-6 gaming styles.
The icons would be straight forward. I did some more doodling (simplified) and figured:
• Mouse (PC)
• Controller (Either xbox or NES) (Console)
• Dice (obvs)
• Hand of cards (Deck) (I toyed with a design that included counters but at that size they got lost)
• Old-school brick Gameboy (handheld)
• Silhouette of a miniature
I think those would be pretty clear / obvious.
All together that would allow for a lot of customization to make the full collection feel varied and more alive.
On that thinking, if we go with this idea, how many regions / which colors? I would recommend not going above 6-8.
testsubject23King of No SleepZzzzzzzRegistered Userregular
edited January 2012
Wouldn't a combined mana-color-by-region mana-icon-by-interest thing be a bit strange?
I mean, MTG has the five basic mana types, each of which has a unique icon and a unique color. It seems like what you're saying is that we'd have multiple icons for any given color (or vice versa), which doesn't really fit. Not that I'm trying to be pedantic, I just think it's too much info to encode in a single spot.
How about separating them & putting the icons for gaming interest in the "what goes here" portion of the template?
We could also toss out the regional/distance mana idea and just make the five colors represent types of gaming, people could pick their own cost based on relative interest in each category, with card color (if we choose to use it) based on the mana type that has the most cost. (For instance, I'd cost 3 "PC" mana, 1 "console" mana, and 1 either "dice" or "card" mana, cuz I'm mostly into PC games, etc., and my card would be the "PC" color, whatever it's decided to be).
Also: I'm a bit uncertain as to what the dice & card represent. Is the dice for pen-and-paper RPGs, and the cards for card/board games combined? (I ask only because dice and cards are elements in both, not to mention the CCGs, which are almost their own animal.)
It might be even easier to use the following chart:
< 10 = 0
10 = 1
50 = 2
100 = 3
500 = 4
1000 = 5
5000 = 6
10000 = 7
I'm confused; If it's count the number of digits and subtract one, why aren't 10 & 50 the same? 1000 & 5000? Why is 10,000 a 7 instead of a 4?
My chart was arbitrary but gives a greater variation in distances.
Regarding the "mana" icons and regions, I am a believer that the PAX Cards should represent who we are and what we're doing, and less of where we came from and what we did. I like symbols that allow us to demonstrate our preferred gaming styles, but I think more consistent coloring would look better in the end.
A) Icons are black outlines with light red background OR Each icon has its own color
I vote for whatever is simplest. this is getting a bit overcomplicated.
Yeah I'm with this. I didn't expect it to get so out of hand. I know I suggested a math thingy but I figured even that would be simple with a calculator. I'd even be fine for leaving mana out altogether instead of having it be such a complication.
I vote for whatever is simplest. this is getting a bit overcomplicated.
Yeah I'm with this. I didn't expect it to get so out of hand. I know I suggested a math thingy but I figured even that would be simple with a calculator. I'd even be fine for leaving mana out altogether instead of having it be such a complication.
I third this. Simple is always best. Especially for those of us who not onlt don't play M:TG, but know nothing about it. Having the overall "feel" of the game cards is fine. But I think its getting too complicated
- Biting's excellent! It's like kissing. Only there's a winner.
Pax Attendee/Enforcer:
Prime - '11 Attendee, '12 Enforcer, '13 Enforcer
East - '12 Attendee, '15 Enforcer
0
Options
testsubject23King of No SleepZzzzzzzRegistered Userregular
If we're doing gaming styles as mana, I'd prefer to see each with it's own color. Just my $0.02 worth.
I like option A. Seems like a nice middle ground that would be stylin' too
I second this, and I actually really like thedandmom's icons. They're pretty clear and it looks like they could be easily adapted for whichever option is used.
I definitely like the gaming mana icons better than distance since I had no idea whether to use NJ (where I be a citizen) or Scotland (where I am 9 months out of the year for school).
I can't wait to get this done again, and this year I will do a much better job of collecting them, I think I ended with about 16 last year, but hey I have spares of mine at least... about 130.
I will be discussing the trading cards in Google Hangout momentarily. If you have any questions or feedback let me know here, twitter, or Google+ and I will get you in.
Some fun times in G+, we have semi-finals for the cards and icons:
We decided to go with minimal gaming style for the "mana cost". You'll be able to use the colorless number and two style icons. Ultimately the region icons are too abstract. The final final template should be up soon, as well as a finished example and instructions.
I almost feel like its two different kinds of card now though with the back reminding me of the superhero card and the front being mtgish,
I almost wish it was a half card on the front and a logo on the back ::Shrug:: Either way i'll be doing whatever.
0
Options
testsubject23King of No SleepZzzzzzzRegistered Userregular
i think it's been mentioned before, but i'm still not clear on the distinction between dice and cards, since many tabletop games involve both. also, when i first saw the pc mouse icon i couldn't tell what it was (well, i had a thought, but i won't say because it's inappropriate). in large size it's obvious, but the smaller mouse on the card template isn't so clear. other than those tiny details, i think everything about it is great.
I almost feel like its two different kinds of card now though with the back reminding me of the superhero card and the front being mtgish,
I almost wish it was a half card on the front and a logo on the back ::Shrug:: Either way i'll be doing whatever.
Well I tried to borrow from the original PAX design which allotted for a full-sized picture with badges on one side and an avatar on the other.
The idea you mentioned we be more true-to-form as far as MTG goes, but, it would take away a lot of space for the picture and badges. The back of the card would look really cluttered, I think.
Anyway, I think ultimately we're just trying to emulate a style but not replicate it 100%.
i think it's been mentioned before, but i'm still not clear on the distinction between dice and cards, since many tabletop games involve both. also, when i first saw the pc mouse icon i couldn't tell what it was (well, i had a thought, but i won't say because it's inappropriate). in large size it's obvious, but the smaller mouse on the card template isn't so clear. other than those tiny details, i think everything about it is great.
Yeah I'm also a little worried how all the icons are gonna look at that size. I'm hoping to get a draft print out this weekend to see how they are at 100%.
As far as the dice vs cards... eh. I suppose it can just be a style preference. There are a lot of deck-building games that don't use dice, but dice are also really iconic for tabletop gaming so I thought I'd just include both.
Yeah I'm also a little worried how all the icons are gonna look at that size. I'm hoping to get a draft print out this weekend to see how they are at 100%.
As far as the dice vs cards... eh. I suppose it can just be a style preference. There are a lot of deck-building games that don't use dice, but dice are also really iconic for tabletop gaming so I thought I'd just include both.
A mouse that's more solid-color would probably be easier to identify right off the bat. I also had problems with recognition 'til I saw the larger icon.
As to the dice-vs-cards thing - I think much of that would be cleared up if we use something other than a D6. The D20 is the natural "icon" of pen-and-paper gaming, but any of the other non-cube dice would do the trick. Board games tend to stick to the six-sided dice almost exclusively.
I almost feel like its two different kinds of card now though with the back reminding me of the superhero card and the front being mtgish,
I almost wish it was a half card on the front and a logo on the back ::Shrug:: Either way i'll be doing whatever.
Well I tried to borrow from the original PAX design which allotted for a full-sized picture with badges on one side and an avatar on the other.
The idea you mentioned we be more true-to-form as far as MTG goes, but, it would take away a lot of space for the picture and badges. The back of the card would look really cluttered, I think.
Anyway, I think ultimately we're just trying to emulate a style but not replicate it 100%.
I totally get the logic, it would make the info.section a bit too small, plus it does make it a trading card more than a game, guess it's about.time to breakout Photoshop. Hmm how nerdy.of a picture am I willing to use...
Also I will do my best to help people with their cards if they need it.
Yeah I'm also a little worried how all the icons are gonna look at that size. I'm hoping to get a draft print out this weekend to see how they are at 100%.
As far as the dice vs cards... eh. I suppose it can just be a style preference. There are a lot of deck-building games that don't use dice, but dice are also really iconic for tabletop gaming so I thought I'd just include both.
A mouse that's more solid-color would probably be easier to identify right off the bat. I also had problems with recognition 'til I saw the larger icon.
As to the dice-vs-cards thing - I think much of that would be cleared up if we use something other than a D6. The D20 is the natural "icon" of pen-and-paper gaming, but any of the other non-cube dice would do the trick. Board games tend to stick to the six-sided dice almost exclusively.
Ok. A D20 was easy enough:
Not sure what you mean with the mouse, though? Do you mean, not include the white parts? Feel free to draw over what I have to show what you mean!
I was wondering if adding a "tail" would help at all.
Posts
Dave: You can count on me to help out again this year with card creation.
and Red Borders FTW!
While correct colors would be cool I can understand if people who hate blue but are from Eurasia not wanting to get "stuck" with a card they aren't 100% happy with, and also I understand that 6 colors of frames adds another set of layers to the template making this a tad less easy.
Now the interesting thing about creating M:TG style cards and never having played is that I'm kind of lost on the technical terms. BUT.
If I got this right, would making little icons like this:
(very rough sketches, obviously)
be sort of in the ball-park of what you guys are talking about for region? Is the mana thing the upper right-hand corner icon?
As far as colors go; I'm not opposed to having different colors by region, and then using "preferred gaming type" icons.
Rough ideas:
Either way works. Having different colors included in the template is easy.
I guess the idea is we need to solidify the plan.
And come up with a full list of icons (in either case) so we can get those down sooner rather than later.
I'm heading to Boston this weekend, so I'll have a lot of free time on the bus to doodle. XD
Terrorizing the Gaming Universe one post at a time...
It might be even easier to use the following chart:
< 10 = 0
10 = 1
50 = 2
100 = 3
500 = 4
1000 = 5
5000 = 6
10000 = 7
If someone knows how to script to photoshop, then that would be awesome. In the past we've created a template that allows every to easier select the badges and input text through many layers. I'm able to whip up a card in ten minutes or less.
I am not completely opposed to the symbols for regions, but I feel it's a little abstract. If izzie thinks we can make other symbols work and we have the time, then I'm for it.
PAX East Trading Card Organizer | Twitter | Google+
They have a API for Javascript, at least for the CS versions. I could likely do it, but I don't have Photoshop... I'd have no way to test my code.
Steam: Chaos Introvert | Twitch.tv: Chaos_Introvert | R*SC: Chaos_Introvert | PSN: testsubject23
Due to the time frame I think this would only work if someone has coded against photoshop before.
PAX East Trading Card Organizer | Twitter | Google+
Fair enough. The multi-layered template approach is easy and fairly approachable.
Once the templates are made I may download the trial of CS5 and see if I can automate some of the layer-fu that needs to be done to go from template to finished product, though, if nobody minds. Coding is fun - I don't get to do it much any more.
Unless, of course, someone with Photoshop scripting experience wants to take it on.
Steam: Chaos Introvert | Twitch.tv: Chaos_Introvert | R*SC: Chaos_Introvert | PSN: testsubject23
I'm confused; If it's count the number of digits and subtract one, why aren't 10 & 50 the same? 1000 & 5000? Why is 10,000 a 7 instead of a 4?
I too think the regional icons are a little too abstract.
The easiest way to go about these sets of ideas, I think, is to pick a color for each region and then make mana icons based on 5-6 gaming styles.
The icons would be straight forward. I did some more doodling (simplified) and figured:
• Mouse (PC)
• Controller (Either xbox or NES) (Console)
• Dice (obvs)
• Hand of cards (Deck) (I toyed with a design that included counters but at that size they got lost)
• Old-school brick Gameboy (handheld)
• Silhouette of a miniature
I think those would be pretty clear / obvious.
All together that would allow for a lot of customization to make the full collection feel varied and more alive.
On that thinking, if we go with this idea, how many regions / which colors? I would recommend not going above 6-8.
Terrorizing the Gaming Universe one post at a time...
I mean, MTG has the five basic mana types, each of which has a unique icon and a unique color. It seems like what you're saying is that we'd have multiple icons for any given color (or vice versa), which doesn't really fit. Not that I'm trying to be pedantic, I just think it's too much info to encode in a single spot.
How about separating them & putting the icons for gaming interest in the "what goes here" portion of the template?
We could also toss out the regional/distance mana idea and just make the five colors represent types of gaming, people could pick their own cost based on relative interest in each category, with card color (if we choose to use it) based on the mana type that has the most cost. (For instance, I'd cost 3 "PC" mana, 1 "console" mana, and 1 either "dice" or "card" mana, cuz I'm mostly into PC games, etc., and my card would be the "PC" color, whatever it's decided to be).
Also: I'm a bit uncertain as to what the dice & card represent. Is the dice for pen-and-paper RPGs, and the cards for card/board games combined? (I ask only because dice and cards are elements in both, not to mention the CCGs, which are almost their own animal.)
Steam: Chaos Introvert | Twitch.tv: Chaos_Introvert | R*SC: Chaos_Introvert | PSN: testsubject23
was bored so i did up something quick, just for visual, and did up digital and traditional art out of the said boredom
My chart was arbitrary but gives a greater variation in distances.
Regarding the "mana" icons and regions, I am a believer that the PAX Cards should represent who we are and what we're doing, and less of where we came from and what we did. I like symbols that allow us to demonstrate our preferred gaming styles, but I think more consistent coloring would look better in the end.
A) Icons are black outlines with light red background OR
PAX East Trading Card Organizer | Twitter | Google+
2009 Omeganaut
Yeah I'm with this. I didn't expect it to get so out of hand. I know I suggested a math thingy but I figured even that would be simple with a calculator. I'd even be fine for leaving mana out altogether instead of having it be such a complication.
Pax Attendee/Enforcer:
Prime - '11 Attendee, '12 Enforcer, '13 Enforcer
East - '12 Attendee, '15 Enforcer
Steam: Chaos Introvert | Twitch.tv: Chaos_Introvert | R*SC: Chaos_Introvert | PSN: testsubject23
I second this, and I actually really like thedandmom's icons. They're pretty clear and it looks like they could be easily adapted for whichever option is used.
I definitely like the gaming mana icons better than distance since I had no idea whether to use NJ (where I be a citizen) or Scotland (where I am 9 months out of the year for school).
*taptaptaptap* I summon forth a Lisa from the highlands!
2009 Omeganaut
PAX East Trading Card Organizer | Twitter | Google+
Some fun times in G+, we have semi-finals for the cards and icons:
Terrorizing the Gaming Universe one post at a time...
We decided to go with minimal gaming style for the "mana cost". You'll be able to use the colorless number and two style icons. Ultimately the region icons are too abstract. The final final template should be up soon, as well as a finished example and instructions.
PAX East Trading Card Organizer | Twitter | Google+
2009 Omeganaut
I almost wish it was a half card on the front and a logo on the back ::Shrug:: Either way i'll be doing whatever.
Template looks great!
Steam: Chaos Introvert | Twitch.tv: Chaos_Introvert | R*SC: Chaos_Introvert | PSN: testsubject23
The idea you mentioned we be more true-to-form as far as MTG goes, but, it would take away a lot of space for the picture and badges. The back of the card would look really cluttered, I think.
Anyway, I think ultimately we're just trying to emulate a style but not replicate it 100%.
Yeah I'm also a little worried how all the icons are gonna look at that size. I'm hoping to get a draft print out this weekend to see how they are at 100%.
As far as the dice vs cards... eh. I suppose it can just be a style preference. There are a lot of deck-building games that don't use dice, but dice are also really iconic for tabletop gaming so I thought I'd just include both.
Terrorizing the Gaming Universe one post at a time...
And I will need someone to make the cards for me. Please?
Pax Attendee/Enforcer:
Prime - '11 Attendee, '12 Enforcer, '13 Enforcer
East - '12 Attendee, '15 Enforcer
A mouse that's more solid-color would probably be easier to identify right off the bat. I also had problems with recognition 'til I saw the larger icon.
As to the dice-vs-cards thing - I think much of that would be cleared up if we use something other than a D6. The D20 is the natural "icon" of pen-and-paper gaming, but any of the other non-cube dice would do the trick. Board games tend to stick to the six-sided dice almost exclusively.
Steam: Chaos Introvert | Twitch.tv: Chaos_Introvert | R*SC: Chaos_Introvert | PSN: testsubject23
Future game art lady!
I totally get the logic, it would make the info.section a bit too small, plus it does make it a trading card more than a game, guess it's about.time to breakout Photoshop. Hmm how nerdy.of a picture am I willing to use...
Also I will do my best to help people with their cards if they need it.
Not sure what you mean with the mouse, though? Do you mean, not include the white parts? Feel free to draw over what I have to show what you mean!
I was wondering if adding a "tail" would help at all.
Terrorizing the Gaming Universe one post at a time...